Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 I just read Clinton lost a lot of weight on it. I'm so curious about this diet but don't want to buy the book. Can anyone describe it in a nutshell? Elaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 >I just read Clinton lost a lot of weight on it. I'm so curious about this >diet but don't want to buy the book. Can anyone describe it in a nutshell? >Elaine I don't think it is anything really innovative. Kind of Paleo or Mediterranean ... meat and vegies and fruits. It says you eat " the right carbs and the right fats " (which is kind of my philosophy, tho we may disagree about what is " right " ). You are not allowed sugar or white flour (good, tho I wouldn't allow whole grain wheat flour either). The one thing that would be not-NT is that they don't like animal fats. However, for losing weight I've found that replacing animal fats with coconut oil really helps (the South Beach diet doesn't use coconut oil either, tho I'd guess it's allowed). The fat part is controversial between people: it is filling (and I don't really cut down on it much, my diet is still 40-50% fat or so) but I also feel that when your body is carrying around a lot of it, you don't need a lot MORE. Also, it is a 6-meal a day diet, and I've gone to the Feast/Fast diet approach. But I DID lose weight using a diet similar to this one. I would say it will work fine for most people, you can tweak it. There is lots of info on their web site. All in all though, it is still a low-calorie diet. Every meal is small, and you have to fix a lot of meals every day. I like the WD approach better ... I only cook once a day, and then I can eat til I'm full with no restrictions. I've lost about 30 lbs, not terribly quickly but without working at it much either. Here is a sample menu plan below from the SBD website: -- Heidi Jean Breakfast 6 oz tomato juice Scrambled eggs with fresh herbs and mushrooms 2 slices Canadian bacon Decaffeinated coffee or decaffeinated tea with nonfat milk and sugar substitute Midmorning snack 1 part-skim mozzarella cheese stick Lunch Chicken Caesar salad (no croutons) 2 Tbsp prepared Caesar dressing Midafternoon snack 1/2 cup low-fat cottage cheese with 1/2 cup chopped tomatoes and cucumbers Dinner Mahi mahi Oven-roasted vegetables Arugula salad 2 Tbsp balsamic vinaigrette or low-sugar prepared dressing Dessert Lemon zest ricotta crème Phase 2 Meal Plan Sample Breakfast 1 cup fresh strawberries Oatmeal (1/2 cup old-fashioned oatmeal mixed with 1 cup nonfat milk, cooked on low heat, and sprinkled with cinnamon and 1 tablespoon chopped walnuts) Decaffeinated coffee or decaffeinated tea with nonfat milk and sugar substitute Midmorning snack 1 hard-boiled egg Lunch Mediterranean chicken salad Midafternoon snack Fresh pear with 1 wedge Laughing Cow Light Cheese Dinner Spinach-stuffed salmon Vegetable medley Tossed salad (mixed greens, cucumbers, green peppers, cherry tomatoes) Olive oil and vinegar to taste Dessert Chocolate-dipped strawberries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 I have gained about 40 or so pounds since I developed RA 6 years ago. I have decided lately that I have to do something about the weight gain and I found the perfect plan. I am on the South Beach Diet. It is an amazing plan that in the 1st two weeks you are restricted on the carbs you can eat so that your system can clean itself out. Then you can slowly add foods back to your life that you enjoyed before. By the end of the diet I will be able to eat almost all the food I used to with slight modifications. (ie. brown instead of white). The nice thing about this plan is that I am able to eat until I am full, so I have not been hungry at all. I am finding this first two weeks a little difficult. But, at least I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I am hoping to lose min. of 30 pounds, but i am happy if I just lose a bit too. The lack of activity and drugs that side effect are weight gain are not a good combo. I will keep you updated on my progress... so far in 5 days... 3 pounds. Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* Hi Sharon, here. I also have trouble with changes in altitude, weather and barometric pressure. I am very climate sensitive. I was in Peachland for much of this summer and the Kamloops area of BC and while I am up there (hot and dry) I feel fantastic and then when I get back to the coast (vancouver) I feel very tired and joints flare for weeks. I like the effect methrotrexate has, though it doesn't work 100%. I do get some pretty crazy side effect from taking it though. I find that plaquenil does nothing for me, but have heard others say that it works GREAT. Unfortunately most drugs don'g work well for me and we are now running out of options and I am forced to go on drug trials, which is kinda scary... I am only 24 and feel like guinney pig. Take the effort out of being organized with MSN® Calendar. MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Hi , I'm familiar with the South Beach diet, my mother in law has been on it on & off for about a year now. My sister also has been on Atkins for about the same amount of time. South beach is VERY similar to Atkins once you get into the nitty gritty of it and I'm just suggesting that maybe you ask your dr about it. I was told a high carb / low fat diet is best for those of us with arthritis. Not sure why but was. Just thought I'd pass that along > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 > Congratulations on your weight loss. I have also been on South Beach since 2/04 and lost about 35 pounds. SB is not a low carb diet contrary to some media hype. It is a good carb, good fat diet. Only the first two weeks (Phase I) are low carb just to get cravings under control. Once you detox, then you go to phase II where you reintroduce fruits, whole grains, and other good (complex) carbs. You only limit bad fats (e.g. transfats), and simple carbs such as white bread, white rice and white potatoes. You sub with whole grains, brown rice, sweet potato, etc. Only simple carbs and other high glycemic foods are limited due to influence on insulin. Prevention has a great SB web site for any that have questions. If someone has health issues with Phase I then one can go directly into Phase II. But you probably know all of this since you are doing the diet and read the book. Good luck to both of us and our quest for better health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Wow, that's good to know My mother in law has been on the SB diet for (well, on & off LOL) about a year now. She's cant manage to stick with it, so she jumps back and forth from phase 1-2 alot I read the book debating whether to try it & never really grasped that you were able to eat carbs abundantly like that. I know she doesn't loose anything or just very little once she gets to phase 2 so she gets discouraged I think. Not only am I a carb addict LOL but my dr. recommended a high carb / low fat diet, I dont know if it's because of the condition or maybe the meds? Anyways, My sister has had great success with Atkins (she lost about 90lbs in a year) but that is very strict, more so than SB. I think Atkins you get no more than 20 carbs per day where I thought the SB book recommended about 40/45. For me though, and most likely most people; that is still very low carb. The average diet has approx 250+ carbs per day!!! SHOCKER I know LOL! I've gained about 20lbs over the past 2 years and can't manage to get or keep it off. I went to weight watchers last year and lost it but slowly put it back on. I just don't feel I'm as active anymore. I did just start swimming though. It's impossible to walk for exercise anymore..my feet hurt way to much I wish you GREAT success!!! Good Luck- > > > Congratulations on your weight loss. I have also been on South Beach > since 2/04 and lost about 35 pounds. SB is not a low carb diet > contrary to some media hype. It is a good carb, good fat diet. Only > the first two weeks (Phase I) are low carb just to get cravings under > control. Once you detox, then you go to phase II where you > reintroduce fruits, whole grains, and other good (complex) carbs. You > only limit bad fats (e.g. transfats), and simple carbs such as white > bread, white rice and white potatoes. You sub with whole grains, > brown rice, sweet potato, etc. Only simple carbs and other high > glycemic foods are limited due to influence on insulin. Prevention > has a great SB web site for any that have questions. If someone has > health issues with Phase I then one can go directly into Phase II. > But you probably know all of this since you are doing the diet and > read the book. Good luck to both of us and our quest for better > health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Good for you ! Keep at it. It is worth it in the long run for you health and even your emotions. I am on a 30 day diet...so far I have lost 16 days. Hugs, Jacy ~Dogs have owners but Cats have staff. jacymail@...IM: jacygal - ICQ: 96949087www.geocities.com/mtn_rose Signature powered by Plaxo Want a signature like this? -----Original Message-----From: Cinnamon 'N Sugar [mailto:cinnamonNsugar24@...]Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 22:53Rheumatoid Arthritis Subject: South Beach Diet I have gained about 40 or so pounds since I developed RA 6 years ago. I have decided lately that I have to do something about the weight gain and I found the perfect plan. I am on the South Beach Diet. It is an amazing plan that in the 1st two weeks you are restricted on the carbs you can eat so that your system can clean itself out. Then you can slowly add foods back to your life that you enjoyed before. By the end of the diet I will be able to eat almost all the food I used to with slight modifications. (ie. brown instead of white). The nice thing about this plan is that I am able to eat until I am full, so I have not been hungry at all. I am finding this first two weeks a little difficult. But, at least I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I am hoping to lose min. of 30 pounds, but i am happy if I just lose a bit too. The lack of activity and drugs that side effect are weight gain are not a good combo. I will keep you updated on my progress... so far in 5 days... 3 pounds. Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 I can do high carb! I love carbs. Unfortunately, they love me too much... Hugs, Jacy ~Dogs have owners but Cats have staff. jacymail@...IM: jacygal - ICQ: 96949087www.geocities.com/mtn_rose Signature powered by Plaxo Want a signature like this? -----Original Message-----From: TRACY [mailto:bart.tracy@...]Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 07:22Rheumatoid Arthritis Subject: Re: South Beach DietHi ,I'm familiar with the South Beach diet, my mother in law has been on it on & off for about a year now. My sister also has been on Atkins for about the same amount of time. South beach is VERY similar to Atkins once you get into the nitty gritty of it and I'm just suggesting that maybe you ask your dr about it. I was told a high carb / low fat diet is best for those of us with arthritis. Not sure why but was. Just thought I'd pass that along > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 ugh all that bread?TRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: Hi ,I'm familiar with the South Beach diet, my mother in law has been on it on & off for about a year now. My sister also has been on Atkins for about the same amount of time. South beach is VERY similar to Atkins once you get into the nitty gritty of it and I'm just suggesting that maybe you ask your dr about it. I was told a high carb / low fat diet is best for those of us with arthritis. Not sure why but was. Just thought I'd pass that along > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 LOL I actually don't eat bread, but I love beans, pasta, rice....all high carbs. I know low carb works, my sister is living proof but it's just not for me personally. I only mentioned it because it was something my dr said wouldnt be good although I dont know why and didn't ask because I knew I had no plans of it. If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then I'd be in good shape > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Sounds like me, I think all food likes me too much. One thing, I'm def. not a meat eater (not a vegetarian, just not one of my fav foods) but I sure like everythingelse...I could eat nothing but " side dishes " and be happy.....surely part of my problem losing weight > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 I have to avoid too many carbs when I am less active... have you tried cutting them down when you can't burn them off easily ?..Lynne "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, Compared to what lies within us." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 I have a plan......I am going to be in the hospital for 5 days, to get my new hip; so i won't be eating anything; I'll be on i.v. - so the SB diet wants you to detox for 14 days? I'll only have to struggle for 9 days at home, and I know that I really don't eat much post-op. I may be able to do this detox. thing! gentle hugs! MarciaTRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: LOL I actually don't eat bread, but I love beans, pasta, rice....all high carbs. I know low carb works, my sister is living proof but it's just not for me personally. I only mentioned it because it was something my dr said wouldnt be good although I dont know why and didn't ask because I knew I had no plans of it. If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then I'd be in good shape > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Marcia, I will keep you in my prayers and hope all goes well for you with the surgery. When are you going in? ~~Marcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> wrote: I have a plan......I am going to be in the hospital for 5 days, to get my new hip; so i won't be eating anything; I'll be on i.v. - so the SB diet wants you to detox for 14 days? I'll only have to struggle for 9 days at home, and I know that I really don't eat much post-op. I may be able to do this detox. thing! gentle hugs! MarciaTRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: LOL I actually don't eat bread, but I love beans, pasta, rice....all high carbs. I know low carb works, my sister is living proof but it's just not for me personally. I only mentioned it because it was something my dr said wouldnt be good although I dont know why and didn't ask because I knew I had no plans of it. If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then I'd be in good shape > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 oh, thanks so very much, ! I am scheduled for Oct.5th - only 24 days to go! I was going to ask the group to keep me in their prayers, but the hub-bub two weeks ago, about religion, kind of had me wondering if I should...I am glad you offered. Thank You! gentle hugs, Marcia shelly smiegal <shelsmieg2000@...> wrote: Marcia, I will keep you in my prayers and hope all goes well for you with the surgery. When are you going in? ~~Marcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> wrote: I have a plan......I am going to be in the hospital for 5 days, to get my new hip; so i won't be eating anything; I'll be on i.v. - so the SB diet wants you to detox for 14 days? I'll only have to struggle for 9 days at home, and I know that I really don't eat much post-op. I may be able to do this detox. thing! gentle hugs! MarciaTRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: LOL I actually don't eat bread, but I love beans, pasta, rice....all high carbs. I know low carb works, my sister is living proof but it's just not for me personally. I only mentioned it because it was something my dr said wouldnt be good although I dont know why and didn't ask because I knew I had no plans of it. If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then I'd be in good shape > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 I'll be praying tooMarcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> wrote: oh, thanks so very much, ! I am scheduled for Oct.5th - only 24 days to go! I was going to ask the group to keep me in their prayers, but the hub-bub two weeks ago, about religion, kind of had me wondering if I should...I am glad you offered. Thank You! gentle hugs, Marcia shelly smiegal <shelsmieg2000@...> wrote: Marcia, I will keep you in my prayers and hope all goes well for you with the surgery. When are you going in? ~~Marcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> wrote: I have a plan......I am going to be in the hospital for 5 days, to get my new hip; so i won't be eating anything; I'll be on i.v. - so the SB diet wants you to detox for 14 days? I'll only have to struggle for 9 days at home, and I know that I really don't eat much post-op. I may be able to do this detox. thing! gentle hugs! MarciaTRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: LOL I actually don't eat bread, but I love beans, pasta, rice....all high carbs. I know low carb works, my sister is living proof but it's just not for me personally. I only mentioned it because it was something my dr said wouldnt be good although I dont know why and didn't ask because I knew I had no plans of it. If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then I'd be in good shape > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 thanks, yellow! gentle hugs, Marcia --- yellow dancer <yellowplugempress@...> wrote: > I'll be praying too > > Marcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> > wrote:oh, thanks so very much, ! I am > scheduled for Oct.5th - only 24 days to go! I > was going to ask the group to keep me in their > prayers, but the hub-bub two weeks ago, about > religion, kind of had me wondering if I > should...I am glad you offered. Thank You! > gentle hugs, Marcia > > shelly smiegal <shelsmieg2000@...> wrote: > Marcia, I will keep you in my prayers and hope > all goes well for you with the surgery. When > are you going in? ~~ > > Marcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> wrote: I > have a plan......I am going to be in the > hospital for 5 days, to get my new hip; so i > won't be eating anything; I'll be on i.v. - so > the SB diet wants you to detox for 14 days? > I'll only have to struggle for 9 days at home, > and I know that I really don't eat much > post-op. I may be able to do this detox. > thing! gentle hugs! Marcia > > TRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: LOL > I actually don't eat bread, but I love beans, > pasta, > rice....all high carbs. I know low carb works, > my sister is living > proof but it's just not for me personally. I > only mentioned it > because it was something my dr said wouldnt be > good although I dont > know why and didn't ask because I knew I had no > plans of it. > > If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then I'd > be in good shape > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Marcia, Your on my prayer list for the coming Oct.5th operation. Hang in there, Wally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Marcia, The way I see it, we can all get offended by something, if we try hard enough. Some of us have been with this group a long time and I for one, know who sustains me everyday and it's to Him that the glory is given and I will not be ashamed or hindered and don't let anyone do that to you! God bless you and I will pray for you now and always! Love, yellow dancer <yellowplugempress@...> wrote: I'll be praying tooMarcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> wrote: oh, thanks so very much, ! I am scheduled for Oct.5th - only 24 days to go! I was going to ask the group to keep me in their prayers, but the hub-bub two weeks ago, about religion, kind of had me wondering if I should...I am glad you offered. Thank You! gentle hugs, Marcia shelly smiegal <shelsmieg2000@...> wrote: Marcia, I will keep you in my prayers and hope all goes well for you with the surgery. When are you going in? ~~Marcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> wrote: I have a plan......I am going to be in the hospital for 5 days, to get my new hip; so i won't be eating anything; I'll be on i.v. - so the SB diet wants you to detox for 14 days? I'll only have to struggle for 9 days at home, and I know that I really don't eat much post-op. I may be able to do this detox. thing! gentle hugs! MarciaTRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: LOL I actually don't eat bread, but I love beans, pasta, rice....all high carbs. I know low carb works, my sister is living proof but it's just not for me personally. I only mentioned it because it was something my dr said wouldnt be good although I dont know why and didn't ask because I knew I had no plans of it. If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then I'd be in good shape > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Marcia, Good luck with surgery and you will be on my prayer list... Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcia Stoyle Rheumatoid Arthritis Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:42 AM Subject: Re: Re: South Beach Diet I have a plan......I am going to be in the hospital for 5 days, to get my new hip; so i won't be eating anything; I'll be on i.v. - so the SB diet wants you to detox for 14 days? I'll only have to struggle for 9 days at home, and I know that I really don't eat much post-op. I may be able to do this detox. thing! gentle hugs! MarciaTRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: LOL I actually don't eat bread, but I love beans, pasta, rice....all high carbs. I know low carb works, my sister is living proof but it's just not for me personally. I only mentioned it because it was something my dr said wouldnt be good although I dont know why and didn't ask because I knew I had no plans of it. If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then I'd be in good shape > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 thanks, Wally! you all are such a great group of friends. I really appreciate it. this will be my 4th operation in 5 years. gentle hugs, Marcia --- Waldyne Bieberdorf <waldyne@...> wrote: > Marcia, > Your on my prayer list for the coming Oct.5th > operation. > Hang in there, Wally __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Dear , great BIG gentle hugs, Marcia --- shelly smiegal <shelsmieg2000@...> wrote: > Marcia, The way I see it, we can all get > offended by something, if we try hard enough. > Some of us have been with this group a long > time and I for one, know who sustains me > everyday and it's to Him that the glory is > given and I will not be ashamed or hindered and > don't let anyone do that to you! God bless you > and I will pray for you now and always! Love, > > > yellow dancer <yellowplugempress@...> > wrote:I'll be praying too > > Marcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> wrote: > oh, thanks so very much, ! I am > scheduled for Oct.5th - only 24 days to go! I > was going to ask the group to keep me in their > prayers, but the hub-bub two weeks ago, about > religion, kind of had me wondering if I > should...I am glad you offered. Thank You! > gentle hugs, Marcia > > shelly smiegal <shelsmieg2000@...> wrote: > Marcia, I will keep you in my prayers and hope > all goes well for you with the surgery. When > are you going in? ~~ > > Marcia Stoyle <marciastoyle@...> wrote: I > have a plan......I am going to be in the > hospital for 5 days, to get my new hip; so i > won't be eating anything; I'll be on i.v. - so > the SB diet wants you to detox for 14 days? > I'll only have to struggle for 9 days at home, > and I know that I really don't eat much > post-op. I may be able to do this detox. > thing! gentle hugs! Marcia > > TRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: LOL > I actually don't eat bread, but I love beans, > pasta, > rice....all high carbs. I know low carb works, > my sister is living > proof but it's just not for me personally. I > only mentioned it > because it was something my dr said wouldnt be > good although I dont > know why and didn't ask because I knew I had no > plans of it. > > If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then I'd > be in good shape > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 thnak you, Kay! I really appreciate all this wonderful support. gentle hugs, Marcia --- Kay Simpson <Siwelyak@...> wrote: > Marcia, > Good luck with surgery and you will be > on my prayer list... > Kay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marcia Stoyle > Rheumatoid Arthritis > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 7:42 AM > Subject: Re: Re: South > Beach Diet > > > I have a plan......I am going to be in the > hospital for 5 days, to get my new hip; so i > won't be eating anything; I'll be on i.v. - so > the SB diet wants you to detox for 14 days? > I'll only have to struggle for 9 days at home, > and I know that I really don't eat much > post-op. I may be able to do this detox. > thing! gentle hugs! Marcia > > TRACY <bart.tracy@...> wrote: > LOL I actually don't eat bread, but I > love beans, pasta, > rice....all high carbs. I know low carb > works, my sister is living > proof but it's just not for me personally. > I only mentioned it > because it was something my dr said wouldnt > be good although I dont > know why and didn't ask because I knew I > had no plans of it. > > If I could just eat less HAhahahahah, then > I'd be in good shape > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 I lost 30 lbs on Carbohydrate Addicts diet. I like it because it keeps my hypoglycemia under control as well. Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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