Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Terry Herbert wrote: > There is someone posting a link to this study all over the > Internet. He may get here one of these days. The link is to > NUTRITION 2000 at > http://www.nutrition2000.com/Press_Releases/NUTRITION%202000%20MAJOR%20PROSTATE%\ 20CANCER%20PROTOCOL%20STUDY.asp > > It is one of the weirdest claims I’ve ever seen made in amongst > very many weird claims, but I think the clue in the massive > drop in PSA claimed is in the detail <snip>What were the side > effects of the protocol? The only negative side effects were > some breast tenderness and a diminished libido. <snip> That > rings warning bells amongst many ‘old timers’ who remember the > claims made for PC-Spes and Prostasol all based around > diethylstilboestrol (DES) Terry, To your great credit as a gentleman, you did not mention the simplest explanation of the press release. It seems to me more than barely possible that the study was never done, the 151 patients never existed, the whole thing was made up out of whole cloth, and the author of the press release is an outrageous liar who hopes to make a fortune selling his snake oil. I noted, for example, that no person's name is attached to the study - an immediate red flag - and no actual ingredients of the miracle formula are listed. I appeal to the old principle here, if it's too good to be true, it's probably not true. I wrote to the email address listed on the press release asking for more details. If I get a reply, I'll post it here. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 I always knew you were smarter than I am, Alan!! Most interested to hear if you get a response to your e-mail – other than a request for cash. Perhaps Nutrition 2000 is a subsidiary of ARIZONA HERPETOLOGICAL PROCESSORS LLC – see http://www.yananow.net/troopc.htm#snakeoil All the best Terry Herbert I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since then. My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za Dr “Snuffy” Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate data " From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Alan Meyer Sent: Sunday, 7 March 2010 1:50 PM To: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: Re: " New " Nutrition Study Terry Herbert <ghenesh_49optusnet.au> wrote: > There is someone posting a link to this study all over the > Internet. He may get here one of these days. The link is to > NUTRITION 2000 at > http://www.nutrition2000.com/Press_Releases/NUTRITION%202000%20MAJOR%20PROSTATE%20CANCER%20PROTOCOL%20STUDY.asp > > It is one of the weirdest claims I’ve ever seen made in amongst > very many weird claims, but I think the clue in the massive > drop in PSA claimed is in the detail <snip>What were the side > effects of the protocol? The only negative side effects were > some breast tenderness and a diminished libido. <snip> That > rings warning bells amongst many ‘old timers’ who remember the > claims made for PC-Spes and Prostasol all based around > diethylstilboestrol (DES) Terry, To your great credit as a gentleman, you did not mention the simplest explanation of the press release. It seems to me more than barely possible that the study was never done, the 151 patients never existed, the whole thing was made up out of whole cloth, and the author of the press release is an outrageous liar who hopes to make a fortune selling his snake oil. I noted, for example, that no person's name is attached to the study - an immediate red flag - and no actual ingredients of the miracle formula are listed. I appeal to the old principle here, if it's too good to be true, it's probably not true. I wrote to the email address listed on the press release asking for more details. If I get a reply, I'll post it here. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Terry, This might also be down to vegetable oestrogen as in Saw Palmetto etc., But I agree - a weird study on a small sample, which rings alarm bells. To: ProstateCancerSupport ; ww@...; newdx@...Sent: Sunday, 7 March, 2010 2:05:15Subject: "New"Nutrition Study There is someone posting a link to this study all over the Internet. He may get here one of these days. The link is to NUTRITION 2000 at http://www.nutritio n2000.com/ Press_Releases/ NUTRITION% 202000%20MAJOR% 20PROSTATE% 20CANCER% 20PROTOCOL% 20STUDY.asp It is one of the weirdest claims I’ve ever seen made in amongst very many weird claims, but I think the clue in the massive drop in PSA claimed is in the detail <snip>What were the side effects of the protocol? The only negative side effects were some breast tenderness and a diminished libido. <snip> That rings warning bells amongst many ‘old timers’ who remember the claims made for PC-Spes and Prostasol all based around diethylstilboestrol (DES) DES was an excellent way of reducing PSA and, indeed of managing PCa (and is still used in Britain and in a very few instances in the US ) but a serious side effect is that it can cause thrombosis, according to all the studies. To possibly take an unknown quantity of DES in NUTRITION 2000, without medical supervision might be very dangerous. All the best Terry Herbert I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since then. My sites are at www.yananow. net and www.prostatecancerw atchfulwaiting. co.za Dr “Snuffy†Myers : "As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate data" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Alan Meyer wrote: > Terry Herbert wrote: > > > There is someone posting a link to this study all over the > > Internet. He may get here one of these days. The link is to > > NUTRITION 2000 at > > > http://www.nutrition2000.com/Press_Releases/NUTRITION%202000%20MAJOR%20PROSTATE%\ 20CANCER%20PROTOCOL%20STUDY.asp .... > I wrote to the email address listed on the press release asking > for more details. If I get a reply, I'll post it here. > > Alan Well, I got seven replies. I promised to post something, so here You may find it confusing to figure out who is writing and what his name is. I'm confused too. There seem to be statements attributed to a number of different men in the emails. it is. I appear to have written permission from two men who replied to me to quote from them, so I'll include the full text of one of the emails that in turn quotes my own email, thereby giving two points of view. Anyone interested in the product might wish to put on their hip boots, wade in, read the following, and draw his own conclusions. Alan ============================================================= QUOTED EMAILS FOLLOW ============================================================= THIS IS A TYPICAL DAY FOR ME -MEN WANTING HELP AFTER SO-CALLED MEDICINE HAS FAILED OR SOME CRAP THEY HAVE BEEN TAKING FROM SOME CLOWN NATURPATH THAT IS SUCKING THERE MONEY AND HAS NOTHING FOR THEM-THIS JUST CAME IN-------------------------i have never seen any evidence that medicine has anything for these men-as in this case below--if he had done nothing he woul have lived likely 12-15 yrs (with a gleason 6)- -and look at the side effects and the cost involved-this is the cost of what i will recommned --is $365-including shipping-for the first 30 days and $90.00 per month thereafter--and tell them, with your past history -of the medical side haveing failed--if you do not responed to this product within 25 days--you had better pray- and do not advise them to continue once we get results back and they do not responed--if the psa does not stay the same or does not drop--they are wasting there time-my time and there money--(no need to continue on this product from nutrition2000) but most respond very well----------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ----------------------------- -The following info submitted--age 61 > diagnosed May 06 with prostate cancer-gleason 6 > proscetomy Jul 06-dr said he got it all---ya- right psa rise Mar 07 0.5 radiation therapy May - July 07 psa steady but now has risen to 0.8-i need help--please > Protocol study press release >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Hello. >> >>>> >> >>>> I read your press release at: >> >>>> >> http://www.nutrition2000.com/Press_Releases/NUTRITION%202000%20MAJOR%20PROSTATE%\ 20CANCER%20PROTOCOL%20STUDY.asp >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Can you give me more details of the study? >> >>>> >> >>>> What is the name of the lead investigator who conducted the study? >> >>>> Who did the statistical analysis? Is the raw data available for >> >>>> inspection? How were the men recruited? Were the results published >> >>>> somewhere? >> >>>> >> >>>> Thank you very much. >> >>>> >> >>>> Sincerely, >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Alan Meyer >> >>>> ameyer2@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Snake Oil Alan Meyer wrote: > Terry Herbert wrote: > > > There is someone posting a link to this study all over the > > Internet. He may get here one of these days. The link is to > > NUTRITION 2000 at > > > http://www.nutrition2000.com/Press_Releases/NUTRITION%202000%20MAJOR%20PROSTATE%20CANCER%20PROTOCOL%20STUDY.asp .... > I wrote to the email address listed on the press release asking > for more details. If I get a reply, I'll post it here. > > Alan Well, I got seven replies. I promised to post something, so here You may find it confusing to figure out who is writing and what his name is. I'm confused too. There seem to be statements attributed to a number of different men in the emails. it is. I appear to have written permission from two men who replied to me to quote from them, so I'll include the full text of one of the emails that in turn quotes my own email, thereby giving two points of view. Anyone interested in the product might wish to put on their hip boots, wade in, read the following, and draw his own conclusions. Alan ============================================================= QUOTED EMAILS FOLLOW ============================================================= THIS IS A TYPICAL DAY FOR ME -MEN WANTING HELP AFTER SO-CALLED MEDICINE HAS FAILED OR SOME CRAP THEY HAVE BEEN TAKING FROM SOME CLOWN NATURPATH THAT IS SUCKING THERE MONEY AND HAS NOTHING FOR THEM-THIS JUST CAME IN-------------------------i have never seen any evidence that medicine has anything for these men-as in this case below--if he had done nothing he woul have lived likely 12-15 yrs (with a gleason 6)- -and look at the side effects and the cost involved-this is the cost of what i will recommned --is $365-including shipping-for the first 30 days and $90.00 per month thereafter--and tell them, with your past history -of the medical side haveing failed--if you do not responed to this product within 25 days--you had better pray- and do not advise them to continue once we get results back and they do not responed--if the psa does not stay the same or does not drop--they are wasting there time-my time and there money--(no need to continue on this product from nutrition2000) but most respond very well---------------------------------------------------------- -The following info submitted--age 61 > diagnosed May 06 with prostate cancer-gleason 6 > proscetomy Jul 06-dr said he got it all---ya- right psa rise Mar 07 0.5 radiation therapy May - July 07 psa steady but now has risen to 0.8-i need help--please > Protocol study press release >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Hello. >> >>>> >> >>>> I read your press release at: >> >>>> >> http://www.nutrition2000.com/Press_Releases/NUTRITION%202000%20MAJOR%20PROSTATE%20CANCER%20PROTOCOL%20STUDY.asp >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Can you give me more details of the study? >> >>>> >> >>>> What is the name of the lead investigator who conducted the study? >> >>>> Who did the statistical analysis? Is the raw data available for >> >>>> inspection? How were the men recruited? Were the results published >> >>>> somewhere? >> >>>> >> >>>> Thank you very much. >> >>>> >> >>>> Sincerely, >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Alan Meyer >> >>>> ameyer2@... -- Emersonwww.flhw.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 I had similar posts from a number of men with similar standards of literacy – presumably the same man. There were two principle issues: 1. I asked what the active ingredient in PC-Hope was if it was not DES (diethylstilbestrol) I was told that a scientific study had confirmed that there was no DES in the product. When I asked for a copy of this report, regrettably it had been lost. 2. When I forwarded the letter from the FDA warning NUTRITION 2000 to stop advertising and dealing in a number of the products advertised, I was told that this was proof positive that the products worked. If they did not, the FDA would not have bothered to try to stop them working. All the best Terry Herbert I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in ‘96: and have learned a bit since then. My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za Dr “Snuffy” Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most of the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with inadequate data " From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Alan Meyer Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2010 7:41 AM To: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: Re: " New " Nutrition Study Alan Meyer <ameyer2> wrote: > Terry Herbert wrote: > > > There is someone posting a link to this study all over the > > Internet. He may get here one of these days. The link is to > > NUTRITION 2000 at > > > http://www.nutrition2000.com/Press_Releases/NUTRITION%202000%20MAJOR%20PROSTATE%20CANCER%20PROTOCOL%20STUDY.asp .... > I wrote to the email address listed on the press release asking > for more details. If I get a reply, I'll post it here. > > Alan Well, I got seven replies. I promised to post something, so here You may find it confusing to figure out who is writing and what his name is. I'm confused too. There seem to be statements attributed to a number of different men in the emails. it is. I appear to have written permission from two men who replied to me to quote from them, so I'll include the full text of one of the emails that in turn quotes my own email, thereby giving two points of view. Anyone interested in the product might wish to put on their hip boots, wade in, read the following, and draw his own conclusions. Alan ============================================================= QUOTED EMAILS FOLLOW ============================================================= THIS IS A TYPICAL DAY FOR ME -MEN WANTING HELP AFTER SO-CALLED MEDICINE HAS FAILED OR SOME CRAP THEY HAVE BEEN TAKING FROM SOME CLOWN NATURPATH THAT IS SUCKING THERE MONEY AND HAS NOTHING FOR THEM-THIS JUST CAME IN-------------------------i have never seen any evidence that medicine has anything for these men-as in this case below--if he had done nothing he woul have lived likely 12-15 yrs (with a gleason 6)- -and look at the side effects and the cost involved-this is the cost of what i will recommned --is $365-including shipping-for the first 30 days and $90.00 per month thereafter--and tell them, with your past history -of the medical side haveing failed--if you do not responed to this product within 25 days--you had better pray- and do not advise them to continue once we get results back and they do not responed--if the psa does not stay the same or does not drop--they are wasting there time-my time and there money--(no need to continue on this product from nutrition2000) but most respond very well---------------------------------------------------------- -The following info submitted--age 61 > diagnosed May 06 with prostate cancer-gleason 6 > proscetomy Jul 06-dr said he got it all---ya- right psa rise Mar 07 0.5 radiation therapy May - July 07 psa steady but now has risen to 0.8-i need help--please > Protocol study press release >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Hello. >> >>>> >> >>>> I read your press release at: >> >>>> >> http://www.nutrition2000.com/Press_Releases/NUTRITION%202000%20MAJOR%20PROSTATE%20CANCER%20PROTOCOL%20STUDY.asp >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Can you give me more details of the study? >> >>>> >> >>>> What is the name of the lead investigator who conducted the study? >> >>>> Who did the statistical analysis? Is the raw data available for >> >>>> inspection? How were the men recruited? Were the results published >> >>>> somewhere? >> >>>> >> >>>> Thank you very much. >> >>>> >> >>>> Sincerely, >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Alan Meyer >> >>>> ameyer2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 > Snake Oil Hey now! As exclusive purveyor for Arizona Snake Oil LLC, I protest this implied canard! ;-) Regards, Steve J PS: The replies to Alan have all the stigmata of quackery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Terry Herbert wrote: > I had similar posts from a number of men with similar standards > of literacy – presumably the same man. > > There were two principle issues: > > 1. I asked what the active ingredient in PC-Hope was if it was > not DES (diethylstilbestrol) I was told that a scientific study > had confirmed that there was no DES in the product. When I > asked for a copy of this report, regrettably it had been lost. > > 2. When I forwarded the letter from the FDA warning NUTRITION > 2000 to stop advertising and dealing in a number of the > products advertised, I was told that this was proof positive > that the products worked. If they did not, the FDA would not > have bothered to try to stop them working. After beating my head against the wall many times, and getting nothing but a big headache, I am finally learning not to argue with people like that. After my initial attempt failed, I just thanked the man politely for his messages to me and kept my big mouth (or my overgrown typing fingers) shut. It still impresses me how people who are convinced that the whole medical and regulatory establishment is lying to them and manipulating them, are themselves so ready to accept lies and manipulations from total strangers. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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