Re: Hollis - estrogen and synthroid

[Guest guest]

Hollis and other interested parties.

I have been to see the new endocrinologist and we haven't really come to a conclusion on how to treat me yet as blood work is not yet in. BUT - he made an interesting comment that has made me stop and think very seriously about how to medicate a thyroid safely. "Why on earth do people think its safe to medicate themselves with pig thyroid?"

On this list there are tirades against equine estrogen - Premarin. The main premise of all objections is that although this is a NATURAL form of estrogen - it is natural for HORSES and not for humans and as such is not healthy for humans at all. Much has been written here and elsewhere about the long term deleterious effects of using a drug which is derived from the bodies of animals other than humans and that we should use only the 'natural' form of estrogens or progeseterones which are derived from plants.

I didn't have an answer for my docs statement above, because I was hit with the impact of what I have learned on this list about using "natural" products and needed time for thought on this subject. I'm still thinking, while awaiting my bloodwork and I've not yet come to any conclusions on where to go from here. It seems the height of hypocrisy to say read my doc the riot act if he tries to prescribe Premarin and then conversely read him the riot act if he doesn't prescribe Armour/Porcine thyroid meds. I wouldn't want to be a doc today - but then, for the moment its not a lot of fun to be me!! I have a lot of reading and thinking to do , but I thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

Dusty

-----Original Message-----From: VulvarDisorders [mailto:VulvarDisorders ] On Behalf Of Zdamask@...Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 11:28 AMTo: VulvarDisorders Subject: Re: Hollis - estrogen and synthroid

I have been on synthroid (which i'm recently guessing you're not a fan of - hehe:) syn crap -LOL). Anyway I've been on it for 20 yrs, since I was 9 years old. I have always thought my vesitbulitis was hormonal (until it seems to have disappeared in the last couple of weeks for no known reason). What is a better thyroid med for me, then? I haven't felt like it's been working lately anyway, but they insist my levels are "normal". Big surprise, there, huh? Just wondering, since I think it's hormonal (and I'm sure my pain will be back, it always is....) and you said thyroid replacement will lower those levels. Thanks in advance. Liz, Many people on synthetic hormone replacement with drugs like Synthroid find that, sooner or later, the improvements they experienced when they first started fade. Or that, while their energy levels might be improved, lots of other "things" that most people (including doctors) don't realize are associated with hypothyroidism -- skin conditions, high cholesterol, heart problems, weight problems, depression, edema , etc. etc. -- are still with them. The problem is that Synthroid contains only T4, the storage hormone, NOT T3, to which it must be converted in order for the thyroid to be metabolically active in virtually every cell of your body. The thyroid that the body naturally produces contains not only T4, but T3, T2, T1, and calcitonin, which is crucial for proper calcium levels. There could well be other constituents produced by our thyroid, but these are the known ones to date. One alternative for thyroid replacement is to use synthetic, but bio-identical versions of T4 and T3 -- the two main thyroid hormones. There is a medication (Thyolar, i think it's called) that has set proportions of the two. That's fine, if the proportions just happen to be ones that your body responds to well, but that's not always the case. Some doctors treat by playing around with balancing Cytomel (synthetic, bio-identical T3) with Synthroid (T4). But, obviously, the other thryoid hormones are missing. (Plus, Synthroid, being an isomer, is not actually exactly bio-identical in its structure.) Most people, though, find that using natural dessicated porcine thryoid gives the best results, since it contains ALL the various thyroid hormones. The best known brand is Armour thyroid, which has been used successfully for over a 100 years -- before the pharmaceutical companies developed the TSH test (a black day, i my opinion) and started pushing synthetics. There are others, too, whose active ingredient is USP porcine thryoid. Pig thyroid is not exactly identical in its T4/T3 proportions, but its the closest -- and for most people works very well. (Some, once their at their optimum dose, might need to supplement with a little Cytomel or Synthroid -- but most do great without that.) Because i am very sensitive to binders and fillers, i decided to start with a compounded natural porcine thyroid -- my capsules contained just the thyroid and a filler called Avicel. About a month ago, i decided i wanted to try to switch to Armour (much more convenient, since i was taking it sublingually and the powder was a mouthful, and cheaper for me). Unfortunately, i DID react to one of the binder/fillers and can't use it. But most people have no problem with it or one of the others (Nature-throid, West-throid). If you want to explore the possibility of switching to a natural porcine thyroid medication, i would urge you to check out the web site: stopthethyroidmadness.com. This is an unabashedly Armour-loving site, which has excellent information on some of the problems with T4 only medication. I think the whole site is good, but you might want to start by reading some of the personal stories. There's also a forum, if you want to post questions.This site was started a few months ago by the owner of the excellent yahoo group i belong to: NaturalThyroidHormones . I'll warn you, though, that this is an incredibly active site and can be a little overwhelming at first. The women there are great and i've learned a great deal of information from them. Hope this helps. Hollis

[Guest guest]

Dusty, I had been wondering about that "natural" discussion too. We are way more closely related to horses than we are to plants. Furthermore, it has seemed to me that anytime I "fix" one medical problem with a drug it causes some other problem that seems to call for another drug.--

[Guest guest]

Dusty,

I want you to know that i'm not ignoring your question, which, interestingly,

came up yesterday on my naturalthyroidhormone list, as well. Your concern

is one that has troubled me somewhat as well, since Vliet, whom i respect so

much when it comes to her knowledge of female sex hormones, has voiced

concerns about possible allergic reactions to the pig thyroid and chooses to

use synthetics in her practice for that reason. I don't want to give a hasty

answer, since i think it's somewhat complicated. I'll post my thoughts on

the subject tomorrow when, hopefully, i have more energy than i do right

now (it's period time -- oh, boy!) -- and have had another night to sleep on it. . .

Hollis

[Guest guest]

Hollis,

Thanks for the helpful and detailed information!

I didn't do well with Armour Thyroid (alot of irritability and nervousness) and my blood test was showing that my thyroid levels were still low. I do well with Synthroid and Cytomel. However, I don't think they're exactly "right" for me.

I'll take a look at the porcine alternatives to Armour Thyroid, Nature-throid and West-throid. I'm also sensitive to some of the binders and fillers, so I will also look into compounded natural porcine thyroid.

Lily

[Guest guest]

HI Dusty, ;

Just a real quick thought.... Is that it doesn't matter if it's pigs, animals or plants to me but the bottom line to ask would be 'Is it 'bio-identical' to our own hormones or steroids, etc.? ' if so then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Dee~