RE: Healthy Body Healthy Mind

[Guest guest]

Hi Guys,

So no scientific evidence / hard science that folic acid is cancer related positive or negative. I guess true by no response!

Next issue-Lupron

I am going to see my Doctor about my next Lupron shot (my second one). I have a Gleason of 7 my PSA was rising rapidly within a month Major back surgery and an infection that almost killed me. In one month it went 1, to 4.6and still rising. I have no prostrate and have done radiation and PSA was very low four 3 years. Until back problems my PSA was around 1.6 up and down a bit.

Alan, Terry, Steve and Byran others. I am probably wanting to still be in denial and as you know I am new to this. You can conjecture or do "seems to me" would be OK with me. I want and value your opinion and how I should talk with this doctor this time.

I have entertained in my mind a faint hope that when my system got better from the back surgery and near death by infection that maybe my PSA could return to and stay low without the Lupron. About 2 months after the Lupron (4 month dosage) my PSA went from 4.6 to 1.8. Good the Lupron is working. My body is returned to a much healthier state and the inflammation that seemed to be in body everywhere seems to be gone. The MRI done by MD shows a much smaller lymph node near where my vessels split to my legs. Down in size to 1,3.

Depending on my PSA being is wise to ask to not get another injection and check it 2 weeks to 1 month until it starts back up again. Of course my hope is it will stay down. If I delay the next shot will it extend the period of Lupron or ADT usage or does cancer adopt to less testosterone in the same period of time anyway.

Come on just guess as much you can with what you know.

Thanks Guys,

Tom

To: Kathy Meade Sent: Fri, April 2, 2010 11:21:33 AMSubject: Healthy Body Healthy Mind

Below is a sponsored link to an informational piece on Advanced Prostatecancer. It also touches on bone health, screening, research and the need forfunding and the history of prostate cancer treatment. All advocates and menwith prostate cancer should learn something by watching the video. http://www.itvisus. com/programs/ hbhm/index. asp#ooid= Iza2VhMTqn- tHgaxfstDRMBJ1b12EW7i If this link does not work I have also posted the link to the VPCC facebookpage. There are links on the VPCC facebook page to other issues in the newsthat are of interest that you may want to read.http://www.facebook .com/home. php?ref=home#!/group.php? gid=24163819983 Please share this email with anyone who you feel may be

interested.Kathy Meade

[Guest guest]



Tom

My feeling is that you want 6 months of PSA less then analytical minimum (ie next to nothing) before contemplating a Lupron holiday

Discuss it with your doc

Best wishes

Healthy Body Healthy Mind

Below is a sponsored link to an informational piece on Advanced Prostatecancer. It also touches on bone health, screening, research and the need forfunding and the history of prostate cancer treatment. All advocates and menwith prostate cancer should learn something by watching the video. http://www.itvisus. com/programs/ hbhm/index. asp#ooid= Iza2VhMTqn- tHgaxfstDRMBJ1b12EW7i If this link does not work I have also posted the link to the VPCC facebookpage. There are links on the VPCC facebook page to other issues in the newsthat are of interest that you may want to read.http://www.facebook .com/home. php?ref=home#!/group.php? gid=24163819983 Please share this email with anyone who you feel may be interested.Kathy Meade

[Guest guest]

Metcalf wrote:

> My feeling is that you want 6 months of PSA less then

> analytical minimum (ie next to nothing) before contemplating a

> Lupron holiday

I've read similar statements, but some say at least one year.

In your case Tom, you haven't (yet at least) achieved an

extremely low PSA. I bet your doctor will want you to get your

next Lupron dose on time.

> Discuss it with your doc

Yes.

Tom wrote:

> ... If I delay the next shot will it extend the period of

> Lupron or ADT usage or does cancer adopt to less testosterone

> in the same period of time anyway.

>

> Come on just guess as much you can with what you know.

Cancer cells mutate all the time. Some of those mutated cells

will be less dependent on testosterone than others, depending on

the nature of the mutation.

My inexpert, purely layman's guess about the underlying biology

is that the rate of mutation is more dependent on the number of

cells there are (together with the nature of the cells, e.g., the

Gleason score) than on the exposure to testosterone. In other

words, if you have X cancer cells in your body, some number of

them, say Y, are going to randomly mutate and produce less

testosterone dependent offspring. If you have 2X cells, then

they will produce 2Y less T dependent offspring.

If that's true, you want to hold down the total number of cancer

cells by staying on the Lupron, not try to keep them from

adapting to it by getting off.

But that's my uneducated guess. As says, ask the doctor.

Alan

[Guest guest]

> Next issue-Lupron

(snip)

> I have entertained in my mind a faint hope that when my system got

> better from the back surgery and near death by infection that maybe my

> PSA could return to and stay low without the Lupron. About 2 months

> after the Lupron (4 month dosage) my PSA went from 4.6 to 1.8. Good the

> Lupron is working. My body is returned to a much healthier state and the

> inflammation that seemed to be in body everywhere seems to be gone. The

> MRI done by MD shows a much smaller lymph node near where my

> vessels split to my legs. Down in size to 1,3.

> Depending on my PSA being is wise to ask to not get another injection

> and check it 2 weeks to 1 month until it starts back up again. Of course

> my hope is it will stay down. If I delay the next shot will it extend

> the period of Lupron or ADT usage or does cancer adopt to less

> testosterone in the same period of time anyway.

As to the last question, I would not bet my life on it.

Unless the criteria for intermittent ADT are met. Those criteria

are: undetectable PSA (meaning =/< 0.05 ng/mL) for at least one

year while on an LHRH agonist such as Lupron, Trelstar or

Zoladex. Nothing less will do.

Read about ADT at this point on the encyclopedic website of the

Prostate Cancer Research Institute at:

http://www.prostate-cancer.org/pcricms/node/199 The author of the

article is B. Strum, MD, a medical oncologist who has

specialized in PCa for over 28 years.

Much more on ADT and IADT can be found on the site. As well as

reliable information on just about any PCa subject one can imagine.

I most strongly recommend _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_ 2nd ed.,

subtitled " The Empowered Patient's Guide " by medical oncologist

and PCa specialist B. Strum, MD and PCa warrior Donna

Pogliano. It is available from the PCRI website and the like, as

well as Amazon (30+ five-star reviews), & Noble, and

bookstores. A lifesaver, as I very well know.

Never accept guesswork; educate yourself.

All the best,

Steve J

" Come to the cold, hard realization that medicine no more knows

what causes cancer or how to cure it than they know what is the

best house, diet, profession and companion for you. Each person

and life is different. That is why YOUR education and YOUR choice

in YOUR life is best. Make your doctor explain until you

understand and if (s)he doesn't like it, get a new one. It is

YOUR body, YOUR treatment and YOUR future. It won't be easy but

learn to take back control.... "

-- Young, PCa Mentor

Phoenix 5

[Guest guest]

OK Tom, here’s my <snip> ….conjecture

or … " seems to me " <snip> …

I think that your rising PSA is connected

directly to your surgery and infection. It would be good if it was associated

with the inflammation that goes with a major surgery and the healing process. But

I fear that it may well be due to the action of prostate cancer cells that have

gained strength from the human growth factors (HGF) generated in substantial

quantities by the body to heal the trauma of the surgery.

The background to that conjecture goes

back some years when, on a Forum that is alas! long gone, there was a good deal

of intelligent discussion on speculative theories. Many of the men who

joined in the discussion had qualifications that enabled them to have input at

level beyond we lay people. We were discussing the subject that raises it’s

head from time to time – does a biopsy procedure spread the disease? Why

is there sometimes a failure of RP (Radical Prostatectomy), in cases where to

all intents and purposes the clear margins on the pathology indicated that the

disease was most likely self-contained. This had been raised in the context of

the work that Dr Judah Folkman was doing on how tumours created their own blood

supply.

One of the men had a medical degree (he

was not a urologist) and he had a very clear view that he would never submit to

a second biopsy because, from his knowledge and the studies he had read he

believed that there was a greater risk that the disease could spread in this

way and become systemic. He also believed that HGF might be behind the RP

failures and quoted some studies where people who had been involved in traumatic

accidents (mainly road accidents) were said to have a higher incidence of

cancer of all types over the years that followed their recovery.

I felt that this was indeed food for

thought, especially in the light of what I had learned about Judah Folkman’s

work, but couldn’t agree on the biopsy spread, purely on the basis that,

given the millions of biopsy procedure carried out for prostate cancer, there would

be a substantial increase in the incidence of prostate cancer instead of the

falling incidence we see.

So that’s the background to my

conjecture. Either way I would, in your position, seriously consider continuing

ADT (Androgen Deprivation Therapy) at this time. If Lupron doesn’t suit you

– if you had a really bad reaction to that medication, try another, but

it seems to me you should do it and see what happens to your PSA. If it drops

back again, then perhaps one more shot after the next one will knock the PSA

number down to an accepted level. If that happens then, I think, that would be

the time to consider an ADT ‘holiday’.

Of course if the PSA continues to rise,

despite your continued ADT, it might be time to step up the attack –

perhaps with multiple medications.

I hope this helps. I know I don’t

really have to say it, given your request, but, as you know I have no medical

training and this is only based on what I have learned. I can’t even

quote the studies mentioned above because I never kept the discussion. One tends

to think that material that has been published on the Internet will be there

forever, - and much of it is – but not when the ISP goes bust and the

machinery goes as well.

All the best

Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening

Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong

Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html

From:

ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Tom

Sent: Saturday, 3 April 2010 7:19

AM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

Healthy Body Healthy Mind

Hi Guys,

So no scientific evidence / hard science that folic acid is cancer

related positive or negative. I guess true by no response!

Next issue-Lupron

I am going to see my Doctor about my next Lupron shot (my second one).

I have a Gleason of 7 my PSA was rising rapidly within a month Major back

surgery and an infection that almost killed me. In one month it went 1,

to 4.6and still rising. I have no prostrate and have done radiation

and PSA was very low four 3 years. Until back problems my PSA was around

1.6 up and down a bit.

Alan, Terry, Steve and Byran others. I am probably wanting to still be

in denial and as you know I am new to this. You can conjecture or do

" seems to me " would be OK with me. I want and value your

opinion and how I should talk with this doctor this time.

I have entertained in my mind a faint hope that when my system got

better from the back surgery and near death by infection that maybe my PSA

could return to and stay low without the Lupron. About 2 months after the

Lupron (4 month dosage) my PSA went from 4.6 to 1.8. Good the Lupron is

working. My body is returned to a much healthier state and the

inflammation that seemed to be in body everywhere seems to be gone. The MRI

done by MD shows a much smaller lymph node near where my vessels split

to my legs. Down in size to 1,3.

Depending on my PSA being is wise to ask to not get another injection

and check it 2 weeks to 1 month until it starts back up again. Of course my

hope is it will stay down. If I delay the next shot will it extend the period

of Lupron or ADT usage or does cancer adopt to less testosterone in the same

period of time anyway.

Come on just guess as much you can with what you know.

Thanks Guys,

Tom

From: Kathy Meade

<kmeadelistaec225>

To: Kathy Meade

<kmeadelistaec225>

Sent: Fri, April 2, 2010 11:21:33

AM

Subject:

Healthy Body Healthy Mind

Below is a sponsored link to an informational piece on

Advanced Prostate

cancer. It also touches on bone health, screening, research and the need for

funding and the history of prostate cancer treatment. All advocates and men

with prostate cancer should learn something by watching the video.

http://www.itvisus. com/programs/ hbhm/index. asp#ooid=

Iza2VhMTqn- tHgaxfstDRMBJ

1b12EW7i

If this link does not work I have also posted the link to the VPCC facebook

page. There are links on the VPCC facebook page to other issues in the news

that are of interest that you may want to read.

http://www.facebook

..com/home. php?ref=home#!/group.php? gid=24163819983

Please share this email with anyone who you feel may be interested.

Kathy Meade