Guest guest Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Dan, My take on PC-Hope is here : http://www.yananow.net/choices.htm#pcspes As you will see it is one of the clones of PC-Spes (which means PC-Hope in Latin). It almost certainly contains DES (diethylstilbestrol) as the active ingredient and although I think that DES can be effective in the management of the disease I believe it is better to take measured doses rather than the uncontrolled and unknown doses in compounds like PC-Hope. If you use the Yana site search engine and enter " PC-Hope " (with the quotation markes, you will see that three men have mentioned PC-Hope in their stories. All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Goldstone Sent: Thursday, 14 October 2010 4:23 AM To: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: PC Hope Is anybody taking or have taken PC Hope? Did you have good results? What is in the supplement? Does it have DES in it or any type of testosterone blocking agents? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Terry, Thanks for your explanation. I suspected that it had DES included. To me it is another form of hormone therapy. I wonder why people that want some form of hormone therapy would go that route. An unregulated, black market product. What are the benefits in DES versus regualted hormone therapy? Dan Subject: RE: PC HopeTo: ProstateCancerSupport Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 9:42 PM Dan, My take on PC-Hope is here : http://www.yananow.net/choices.htm#pcspes As you will see it is one of the clones of PC-Spes (which means PC-Hope in Latin). It almost certainly contains DES (diethylstilbestrol) as the active ingredient and although I think that DES can be effective in the management of the disease I believe it is better to take measured doses rather than the uncontrolled and unknown doses in compounds like PC-Hope. If you use the Yana site search engine and enter "PC-Hope" (with the quotation markes, you will see that three men have mentioned PC-Hope in their stories. All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto: ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Dani el GoldstoneSent: Thursday, 14 October 2010 4:23 AMTo: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: PC Hope Is anybody taking or have taken PC Hope? Did you have good results? What is in the supplement? Does it have DES in it or any type of testosterone blocking agents? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 On 10/13-14/10, Terry replied to : > My take on PC-Hope is here : > http://www.yananow.net/choices.htm#pcspes As you will see it is > one of the clones of PC-Spes (which means PC-Hope in Latin). It > almost certainly contains DES (diethylstilbestrol) as the active > ingredient and although I think that DES can be effective in the > management of the disease I believe it is better to take measured > doses rather than the uncontrolled and unknown doses in compounds > like PC-Hope. One of these compounds was tested in a European lab, I disremember which, and was found indeed to contain undisclosed DES, which I understand can be dangerous. I've argued this matter fairly frequently, and found the the True Believers simply will not credit any evidence against the compound and will attack one who raises such forbidden topics. Tnx, Terry, good info. Regards, Steve " Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. " -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 One of the biggest benefits of DES is cost. It costs a fraction of the price of the pharma products. But there are other benefits for some men too in the lessened side effects at the low doses that seem to be effective so often. If you go along to the Yana Forum at http://pub2.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=154144579 & frmid=42 & msgid=0 and put DES into the search engine you’ll find some recent discussions and Rob Parsons, a great supporter, giving his views – his story is at http://www.yananow.net/Mentors/RobP.htm I’d have gone for Intermittent DES myself but my oncologist wouldn’t have a bar of it, so I settled for second best – Intermittent Zoladex! All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Goldstone Sent: Thursday, 14 October 2010 9:10 AM To: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: RE: PC Hope Terry, Thanks for your explanation. I suspected that it had DES included. To me it is another form of hormone therapy. I wonder why people that want some form of hormone therapy would go that route. An unregulated, black market product. What are the benefits in DES versus regualted hormone therapy? Dan Subject: RE: PC Hope To: ProstateCancerSupport Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2010, 9:42 PM Dan, My take on PC-Hope is here : http://www.yananow.net/choices.htm#pcspes As you will see it is one of the clones of PC-Spes (which means PC-Hope in Latin). It almost certainly contains DES (diethylstilbestrol) as the active ingredient and although I think that DES can be effective in the management of the disease I believe it is better to take measured doses rather than the uncontrolled and unknown doses in compounds like PC-Hope. If you use the Yana site search engine and enter " PC-Hope " (with the quotation markes, you will see that three men have mentioned PC-Hope in their stories. All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto: ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Dani el Goldstone Sent: Thursday, 14 October 2010 4:23 AM To: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: PC Hope Is anybody taking or have taken PC Hope? Did you have good results? What is in the supplement? Does it have DES in it or any type of testosterone blocking agents? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Yes indeed, Steve. It was one of the versions of Prostasol. I mention that on my site at http://www.yananow.net/choices.htm#pcspes <snip>The Danish Medicines Agency published a warning stating in part: " The description of the contents states that Prostasol is a pure herbal product, but a Danish analysis shows that Prostasol contains diethylstilbestrol (synthetic oestrogen). " <snip> Of course those True Believers say that the version of Prostasol THEY are taking is not this version!! Hmmmm...... I see no porcine aviators, so have some doubts about that view. All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html Re: PC Hope On 10/13-14/10, Terry replied to : > My take on PC-Hope is here : > http://www.yananow.net/choices.htm#pcspes As you will see it is > one of the clones of PC-Spes (which means PC-Hope in Latin). It > almost certainly contains DES (diethylstilbestrol) as the active > ingredient and although I think that DES can be effective in the > management of the disease I believe it is better to take measured > doses rather than the uncontrolled and unknown doses in compounds > like PC-Hope. One of these compounds was tested in a European lab, I disremember which, and was found indeed to contain undisclosed DES, which I understand can be dangerous. I've argued this matter fairly frequently, and found the the True Believers simply will not credit any evidence against the compound and will attack one who raises such forbidden topics. Tnx, Terry, good info. Regards, Steve " Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. " -- ------------------------------------ There are just two rules for this group 1 No Spam 2 Be kind to others Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at other options. Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply Try to change the title if the content requires it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 > Terry, > Thanks for your explanation. I suspected that it had DES > included. To me it is another form of hormone therapy. I wonder > why people that want some form of hormone therapy would go that > route. An unregulated, black market product. What are the > benefits in DES versus regualted hormone therapy? No doubt Terry will Words of Wisdom on the topic, but perhaps I can help. One benefit of a regimen of meds that are tested and regulated is that any adverse side effects (SEs) should be disclosed. Frex, regarding DES, it is known that it can cause adverse cardiac events. See: PubMed, a service of the National Institutes of Health, at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed and search on PubMed ID# 11502463 The abstract begins: " Diethylstilbestrol administration was a classic form of androgen deprivation therapy (ADT) that gradually fell out of favor because of its cardiovascular toxicity, economic disinterest on the part of manufacturers, and the emergence of novel therapeutic agents with a superior safety profile. " Under " Results: " " Cardiovascular toxicity occurred in 10% to 30% of patients, with events including deep vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, and transient ischemic attack. Edema and gynecomastia was (sic: were) also noted. " THIS is what the snake-oil purveyors are selling. Regards, Steve J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 You may find this of use. Some men are now using exogenous testosterone (patches / gel) to supplement natural T levels whilst using the latest incarnation of PC-SPES. Sam. In one of the last studies on PC-SPES before it became unavailable, finally published in 2004, Small found that it performed better than DES. PC-SPES also appears to be safer than DES, although the side effects and compromised QoL due to its castration effect may be substantiali. In an editorial on Small's crossover comparison of DES with PC-SPES, Walsh summed up the current position on this novel treatment for advanced disease, agreeing with Small's observationii that PC-SPES was more effective than even DES for treating CRPC. i J Clin Oncol. 2004 Sep 15;22(18):3705-12. Prospective, multicenter, randomized phase II trial of the herbal supplement, PC-SPES, and diethylstilbestrol in patients with androgen-independent prostate cancer. Oh WK, Kantoff PW, Weinberg V, G, Rini BI, Derynck MK, Bok R, MR, Bubley GJ, Rosen RT, DiPaola RS, Small EJ. Lank Center for Genitourinary Oncology, Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, Boston, MA, USA. PubMed:15289492 ii Walsh PC. Prospective, multicenter, randomized phase II trial of the herbal supplement, PC-SPES, and diethylstilbestrol in patients with androgen-independent prostate cancer.J Urol. 2005 Jun;173(6):1966-7. PubMed:15879791 > > > Terry,> > Thanks for your explanation. I suspected that it had DES> > included. To me it is another form of hormone therapy. I wonder> > why people that want some form of hormone therapy would go that> > route. An unregulated, black market product. What are the> > benefits in DES versus regualted hormone therapy?> > No doubt Terry will Words of Wisdom on the topic, but perhaps I > can help.> > One benefit of a regimen of meds that are tested and regulated is > that any adverse side effects (SEs) should be disclosed.> > Frex, regarding DES, it is known that it can cause adverse > cardiac events. See: PubMed, a service of the National Institutes > of Health, at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed and search on > PubMed ID# 11502463> > The abstract begins: "Diethylstilbestrol administration was a > classic form of androgen deprivation therapy (ADT) that gradually > fell out of favor because of its cardiovascular toxicity, > economic disinterest on the part of manufacturers, and the > emergence of novel therapeutic agents with a superior safety > profile."> > Under "Results:"> > "Cardiovascular toxicity occurred in 10% to 30% of patients, with > events including deep vein thrombosis, myocardial infarction, and > transient ischemic attack. Edema and gynecomastia was (sic: were) > also noted."> > THIS is what the snake-oil purveyors are selling.> > Regards,> > Steve J> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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