Re: Radiation and the prostate

[Guest guest]

Lynn:

My prostate is perfectly intact, just sans cancer. Only the tumor is irradiated.

Yes, but there may be some distinct changes. Retrograde ejaculation apparently is common, and impotence and incontinence, alas, are sometimes byproducts.

Tom

Radiation and the prostate

I have a couple of questions about radiation.1. Does it "kill/fry" or whatever you would like to call it, the whole prostate? Is any prostate left after radiation?2. Is there still ejaculate after radiation?Thanks,Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

I had 40 sessions of IGRT (Image Guided Radiation Therapy) 17 months ago. Both your questions are ones I specifically asked my Oncologist/Radiotherapist before my treatment. I was told that the whole prostate would be irradiated not just the tumour and that the whole prostate would turn to scar tissue. I was also told that ejaculate would also reduce by about 30% as that is the amount of the total ejaculate produced by the prostate. 17 months after treatment I find that sometimes there is very little ejaculate and other times I am surprised at how much there is.

Hope this helps,

Spain

Radiation and the prostate

I have a couple of questions about radiation.1. Does it "kill/fry" or whatever you would like to call it, the whole prostate? Is any prostate left after radiation?2. Is there still ejaculate after radiation?Thanks,Lynn

[Guest guest]

LYNN wrote:

> I have a couple of questions about radiation.

>

> 1. Does it " kill/fry " or whatever you would like to call it,

> the whole prostate? Is any prostate left after radiation?

Yes, the entire prostate is irradiated as well as some area

around this.

There are a number of reasons for this:

a. It isn't really possible to just irradiate the tumor.

The beams enter the body from the top or side, pass through

all of the tissue (skin, muscle, bone, whatever is there),

strike the prostate, go all the way through the prostate, and

come out the other side, going through all of the tissue

there. There wouldn't be any way, with external beam

radiation to just hit specific spots. The beams are focused

and aimed from different spots so that every beam hits the

prostate but only some hit areas around it. But it would be

very hard to hit just the tumor cells.

b. There's no way to know exactly where the tumor cells are.

Only large tumors will show up on an x-ray, CT scan, MRI, or

other imaging system. Microscopic but still dangerous

tumors won't show up. It wouldn't be safe to leave part of

the prostate untreated.

With low and intermediate risk cancers there is a very good

chance that all of the viable tumor cells are inside the

prostate, but no one can tell for certain exactly where they

all are.

If you were 80% certain that you knew exactly where all the

tumor cells were, would you want to take a 20% chance that

you were wrong? You might if we were talking about radiating

brain cells, but I don't know how much benefit someone would

get by saving part of the prostate.

Cryotherapy and (I think) HIFU practitioners do, in some

cases, try " focal " therapy, just going after places where

tumors are known. But those treatments can be safely

repeated whereas radiation cannot. So far however, it is my

understanding that cure rates for radiation are higher than

cryotherapy or HIFU, though those techniques may be getting

better with more experience.

The radiation doesn't kill the prostate right away. It damages

the cells. They die off slowly, and many of them may continue to

live for several years after radiation before they finally die

off. But eventually, most of them will die off.

I don't know if this is a good analogy or not, but I speculate

that it's like sunburn. The skin is damaged by the sun. Hours

later it starts to turn red, days, or even weeks later, it dies

and peels off. The process is slower in the prostate, but it is

still a process, not a quick kill.

> 2. Is there still ejaculate after radiation?

In my case, very little. It feels just the same as it always

did. If I didn't see it sometimes I would think it was full

volume. But it's not. It's a lot less - for me anyway.

Alan

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

Gregg reports three years after proton beam radiation that sometimes he has next

to no ejaculate and other times it feels like quite a bit. His VA doctor did a

DRE(digital rectal exam) a few weeks ago and said that his prostate felt small

and smooth. The prostate remains, but in essence becomes a dead organ.

Laurel

>

> I have a couple of questions about radiation.

>

> 1. Does it " kill/fry " or whatever you would like to call it, the whole

prostate? Is any prostate left after radiation?

>

> 2. Is there still ejaculate after radiation?

>

> Thanks,

> Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

Lynn, I am not a doctor but from what I have read the following is my understanding....Radiation does not fry or cook the gland. What it does do is damage the DNA of the cells irradiated. When the irradiated cells divide they cannot survive due to this DNA damage. They then die. This may be why it takes a while for the PSA to reach the bottom after radiation treatment. It is my understanding that radiation is done to the entire gland and some surrounding tissue as well. This is done because it is not possible to target only cancer cells as it can take millions of cells to show up on even the best equipment. As far as ejaculate is concerned..I have heard that most goes away, sometimes all. Mostly it seems it does away over time I am sure there are others here with a more expert opinion than

mine. In any case, read and learn from many sources before deciding on anything.JeffSubject: Radiation and the prostateTo: ProstateCancerSupport Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 5:42 PM

I have a couple of questions about radiation.

1. Does it "kill/fry" or whatever you would like to call it, the whole prostate? Is any prostate left after radiation?

2. Is there still ejaculate after radiation?

Thanks,

Lynn

[Guest guest]

" The beams enter the body from the top or side, pass through

all of the tissue (skin, muscle, bone, whatever is there),

strike the prostate, go all the way through the prostate, and

come out the other side, going through all of the tissue

there...Alan "

Thanks Alan for the great post. Once again I urge newbies to look at Proton

Beam Therapy. This is one of the main differences in this type of radiation.

There is no exit of the beam, thus less collateral damage to healthy tissue. I

finished PBT at Loma in November and am very happy with the results.

Please contact me anytime for information on my treatment. Please research all

options before deciding on one.

[Guest guest]

This is close to how it was explained to

me too. My uro today said that it may be recommended by my oncologist

that I stay on radiation for 2 years and we know the cancer will have had a

chance to be eradicated with the salvage radiation. Yes, 2 more years of

hot flashes but it will increase my chances of being cured when I am done.

FWIW to the people who are considering surgery

vs radiation or other theoropy. They do state that if you have radiation

first surgery is difficult and not as productive latter. If you have

surgery first then you can have radiation latter if it is determined that it is

needed. That is the important message. Only via surgery can you

more accurately determine if the cancer has spread outside of the

prostate. This should be a consideration for those in the T2 or T3 stages.

The post operative pathology can determine how advanced your cancer was before

you started treatments. Most of the other treatments destroy all of the

evidence in its application.

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Obermeier

Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 12:10

PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

Radiation and the prostate

Lynn,

I am not a doctor but from what I have read the following is my

understanding....

Radiation does not fry or cook the gland. What it does do is damage the

DNA of the cells irradiated. When the irradiated cells divide they

cannot survive due to this DNA damage. They then die. This may be

why it takes a while for the PSA to reach the bottom after radiation

treatment. It is my understanding that radiation is done to the entire

gland and some surrounding tissue as well. This is done because it is

not possible to target only cancer cells as it can take millions of cells to

show up on even the best equipment. As far as ejaculate is concerned..I have

heard that most goes away, sometimes all. Mostly it seems it does away

over time

I am sure there are others here with a more expert opinion than

mine. In any case, read and learn from many sources before deciding on

anything.

Jeff

From: LYNN <adopt4uaol>

Subject: Radiation and the prostate

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 5:42 PM

I have a couple of questions about radiation.

1. Does it " kill/fry " or whatever you would like to call it, the

whole prostate? Is any prostate left after radiation?

2. Is there still ejaculate after radiation?

Thanks,

Lynn

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with you on the sex part. Though was explained very thoroughly BEFORE ...very easy to get use to and sure beats what the outcome could have been . My wife had had a cancer operation years ago..so we stopped the sex part then. I do/did manage to take care of things myself....and surprising...with the help of the little blue guy...AND RECOMMENDED by the urology dept..it does works enough to accomplish the misson. lol Figure as long as I'm enjoying my early moring showers....may as well include that on occasion! lol OH FOR THE MEMORIES..though

of the GOOD YEARS...creating our FOUR CHILDREN. And the enjoyment we get from our 10 grandchildren...sure compensates for the loss of the real use of the prostate.. JUST ANOTHER PHASE OF LIFe... I'm even getting use to the HOT FLASHES...and as my daughter says...it could be MUCH WORSE THAN THAT! HAPPY MOTHER"S DAY....to alll..

To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 2:18:19 PMSubject: Re: Radiation and the prostate

Lynn,

I found after radiation that I had a small, smooth and regular- you could say normal (but, by the way, useless, prostate), so the bad cells were killed off. Ejaculation? I wouldn't know thanks to ADT. But honestly, after a lifetime of fun, it doesn't matter a bit.

Maybe I packed enough into my 64 years pre-PCa to live on the memories.... ?

But seriously, after, in my case, 38 years of marriage, love is a helluva lot more important than sex.

It may be a harsh thing to say to those who long for the renewal of an active sex life, but I say, life goes on without it. Nothing in the life of my wife and myself compares to the pleasures we gain from our first grandson, just a couple of months old. Life goes on.

From: LYNN <adopt4uaol (DOT) com>To: ProstateCancerSuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) comSent: Wednesday, 5 May, 2010 22:42:15Subject: [ProstateCancerSupp ort] Radiation and the prostate

I have a couple of questions about radiation.1. Does it "kill/fry" or whatever you would like to call it, the whole prostate? Is any prostate left after radiation?2. Is there still ejaculate after radiation?Thanks,LynnLynn

[Guest guest]

I am presently about to begin the PROTON BEAM ..in Waukesha Wisconsin. HAD THE TRIAL RUN...and will start DAILY SIX WEEKS on Monday. My psa went from 2 to 16 in 8 months..

so due to some heart issues...could not do anything in vasive...so doing the HORMONE/ EXTERNAL radiation treatment. My gleason was 7 so could not do the seed implant. I have' had the hormone shot for six weeks now..and LOTS OF HOT FLASHES...so now we'll see what side effects come with the radiation. I've heard from many..and many different ones seem to effect differnt people differently. SOOO will let you know...what I experience.;

To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 12:43:11 PMSubject: Re: Radiation and the prostate

"The beams enter the body from the top or side, pass throughall of the tissue (skin, muscle, bone, whatever is there),strike the prostate, go all the way through the prostate, andcome out the other side, going through all of the tissuethere...Alan"Thanks Alan for the great post. Once again I urge newbies to look at Proton Beam Therapy. This is one of the main differences in this type of radiation. There is no exit of the beam, thus less collateral damage to healthy tissue. I finished PBT at Loma in November and am very happy with the results. Please contact me anytime for information on my treatment. Please research all options before deciding on one.

[Guest guest]

THANKS for the three year report. I'm just having that same treatment..and was wondering what the LONG TERM thing would be. Very helpful comments...

To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 9:45:51 PMSubject: Re: Radiation and the prostate

Hi Lynn, Gregg reports three years after proton beam radiation that sometimes he has next to no ejaculate and other times it feels like quite a bit. His VA doctor did a DRE(digital rectal exam) a few weeks ago and said that his prostate felt small and smooth. The prostate remains, but in essence becomes a dead organ.Laurel>> I have a couple of questions about radiation.> > 1. Does it "kill/fry" or whatever you would like to call it, the whole prostate? Is any prostate left after radiation?> > 2. Is there still ejaculate after radiation?> > Thanks,> Lynn>

[Guest guest]

AND THANK YOU from Jim im WAUKESHA WISCONSIN1 I'm just starting my radiation treatments...have 36 scheduled...so was woindering what was going to happen DOWN THE ROAD.

The hormone shot..has DECREASED..the erections....but ON OCCASION..get a NICE SURPRISE..but the ejaculate..is surely DECREASING!

To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 6:13:42 PMSubject: Re: Radiation and the prostate

Hi Lynn,

I had 40 sessions of IGRT (Image Guided Radiation Therapy) 17 months ago. Both your questions are ones I specifically asked my Oncologist/Radiothe rapist before my treatment. I was told that the whole prostate would be irradiated not just the tumour and that the whole prostate would turn to scar tissue. I was also told that ejaculate would also reduce by about 30% as that is the amount of the total ejaculate produced by the prostate. 17 months after treatment I find that sometimes there is very little ejaculate and other times I am surprised at how much there is.

Hope this helps,

Spain

[ProstateCancerSupp ort] Radiation and the prostate

I have a couple of questions about radiation.1. Does it "kill/fry" or whatever you would like to call it, the whole prostate? Is any prostate left after radiation?2. Is there still ejaculate after radiation?Thanks,Lynn