Guest guest Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 The use of proscar or avodart post diagnosis is actually a very controversial issue. Some docs and informed patients are very strong advocates while others feel it will not do anything but exposes a man to additional medication risks. The problem is that there has never been any study of the question so nobody knows the answer. Avodart and Proscar do effect the PSA, usually knocking it down by around 50%, but PSA measures are not good markers and PSA numbers do not relate to life extension. Do doctors ever place a person on proscar or avodart prophylactically when a man has been diagnosed with prostate cancer and he is mostly doing active surveillance, and he has no other symptoms? I asked our VA doctor and he said that these drugs were only for preventing cancer - according to my research that isn't correct. I read Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers (highly recommend) and the guy is on one of the two and supplements currently. Is that normal or not? Our thoughts were for my husband to take it on the chance that it would slow down any growth, but the doctor looked at us like we were some other planet when we asked. (Of course, he was freaked out by the active surveillance anyway.) Thanks so much, Lynn -- T Nowak, MA, MSWDirector for Advocacy and Advanced Prostate Cancer Programs, Malecare Inc. Men Fighting Cancer, TogetherSurvivor - Recurrent Prostate, Thyroid, Melanoma and Renal Cancers www.advancedprostatecancer.net - A blog about advanced and recurrent prostate cancerwww.malecare.com - information and support about prostate cancer http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/advancedprostatecancer/ - an online support group for men and their families diagnosed with advanced and recurrent prostate cancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 If the prostate is enlarged, then the use of Proscar or Avodart to shrink it prior to surgery will certainly help improve outcomes with respect to side effects. A repeat biopsy to see if the cancer is still present would be worthwhile prior to surgery. This would be an ultimate test to see if Proscar or Avodart is useful as an cancer suppression treatment. Use of Proscare or Avodart certainly has far less undesirable side effects than hormone blockade! Louis. . . To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 3:32:09 PMSubject: Re: Proscar and Avodart The use of proscar or avodart post diagnosis is actually a very controversial issue. Some docs and informed patients are very strong advocates while others feel it will not do anything but exposes a man to additional medication risks. The problem is that there has never been any study of the question so nobody knows the answer. Avodart and Proscar do effect the PSA, usually knocking it down by around 50%, but PSA measures are not good markers and PSA numbers do not relate to life extension. Do doctors ever place a person on proscar or avodart prophylactically when a man has been diagnosed with prostate cancer and he is mostly doing active surveillance, and he has no other symptoms? I asked our VA doctor and he said that these drugs were only for preventing cancer - according to my research that isn't correct. I read Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers (highly recommend) and the guy is on one of the two and supplements currently. Is that normal or not?Our thoughts were for my husband to take it on the chance that it would slow down any growth, but the doctor looked at us like we were some other planet when we asked. (Of course, he was freaked out by the active surveillance anyway.)Thanks so much,Lynn -- T Nowak, MA, MSWDirector for Advocacy and Advanced Prostate Cancer Programs, Malecare Inc. Men Fighting Cancer, TogetherSurvivor - Recurrent Prostate, Thyroid, Melanoma and Renal Cancerswww.advancedprostatecancer.net - A blog about advanced and recurrent prostate cancerwww.malecare.com - information and support about prostate cancerhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/advancedprostatecancer/ - an online support group for men and their families diagnosed with advanced and recurrent prostate cancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2010 Report Share Posted October 4, 2010 There is no need for a repeat biopsy, proscar does not cure or eliminate camcer. If it was there before taking proscar it will still be there after taking proscar. If the prostate is enlarged, then the use of Proscar or Avodart to shrink it prior to surgery will certainly help improve outcomes with respect to side effects. A repeat biopsy to see if the cancer is still present would be worthwhile prior to surgery. This would be an ultimate test to see if Proscar or Avodart is useful as an cancer suppression treatment. Use of Proscare or Avodart certainly has far less undesirable side effects than hormone blockade! Louis. . . To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 3:32:09 PMSubject: Re: Proscar and Avodart The use of proscar or avodart post diagnosis is actually a very controversial issue. Some docs and informed patients are very strong advocates while others feel it will not do anything but exposes a man to additional medication risks. The problem is that there has never been any study of the question so nobody knows the answer. Avodart and Proscar do effect the PSA, usually knocking it down by around 50%, but PSA measures are not good markers and PSA numbers do not relate to life extension. Do doctors ever place a person on proscar or avodart prophylactically when a man has been diagnosed with prostate cancer and he is mostly doing active surveillance, and he has no other symptoms? I asked our VA doctor and he said that these drugs were only for preventing cancer - according to my research that isn't correct. I read Invasion of the Prostate Snatchers (highly recommend) and the guy is on one of the two and supplements currently. Is that normal or not? Our thoughts were for my husband to take it on the chance that it would slow down any growth, but the doctor looked at us like we were some other planet when we asked. (Of course, he was freaked out by the active surveillance anyway.) Thanks so much,Lynn -- T Nowak, MA, MSWDirector for Advocacy and Advanced Prostate Cancer Programs, Malecare Inc. Men Fighting Cancer, TogetherSurvivor - Recurrent Prostate, Thyroid, Melanoma and Renal Cancerswww.advancedprostatecancer.net - A blog about advanced and recurrent prostate cancer www.malecare.com - information and support about prostate cancerhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/advancedprostatecancer/ - an online support group for men and their families diagnosed with advanced and recurrent prostate cancer -- T Nowak, MA, MSWDirector for Advocacy and Advanced Prostate Cancer Programs, Malecare Inc. Men Fighting Cancer, TogetherSurvivor - Recurrent Prostate, Thyroid, Melanoma and Renal Cancers www.advancedprostatecancer.net - A blog about advanced and recurrent prostate cancerwww.malecare.com - information and support about prostate cancer http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/advancedprostatecancer/ - an online support group for men and their families diagnosed with advanced and recurrent prostate cancer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 To the best of anyone's knowledge out there, would there be any harm in taking proscar or avodart with the hope that it will slow down cancer growth? I know that there are no guarantees, but can they hurt anything? Has anyone run into permanent side effects that are bad? I know that the warning is that the PSA should be halved (or close to it) so you have to watch the new baseline and if the PSA increases from there, there are issues. But with that in mind, is there any reason not to take one of them for protection when you know you have PCa, and don't want to do most treatments? Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 From what I have read, any possible cancer suppression of Proscar and Avodart (or their generic equivalent) is very preliminary and speculative and would be applicable primarily for very early stage cancer. If the prostate happens to enlarged as well, the six month course of these medication, followed up by repeat biopsy would be worthwhile. If surgery is then done, a shrunken prostate will reportedly help improve surgical outcomes with respect to side effects like incontinence and ED. Again, for more extensive cancers, this would not be a wise course, especially if radiation treatment is contemplated, in which ADT works in synergy with radiation treatment. Louis. . . To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Tue, October 12, 2010 1:26:16 PMSubject: Re: Proscar and Avodart To the best of anyone's knowledge out there, would there be any harm in taking proscar or avodart with the hope that it will slow down cancer growth? I know that there are no guarantees, but can they hurt anything? Has anyone run into permanent side effects that are bad? I know that the warning is that the PSA should be halved (or close to it) so you have to watch the new baseline and if the PSA increases from there, there are issues. But with that in mind, is there any reason not to take one of them for protection when you know you have PCa, and don't want to do most treatments?Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 LYNN wrote: > To the best of anyone's knowledge out there, would there be any > harm in taking proscar or avodart with the hope that it will > slow down cancer growth? I know that there are no guarantees, > but can they hurt anything? Has anyone run into permanent side > effects that are bad? > > I know that the warning is that the PSA should be halved (or > close to it) so you have to watch the new baseline and if the > PSA increases from there, there are issues. But with that in > mind, is there any reason not to take one of them for > protection when you know you have PCa, and don't want to do > most treatments? I don't know the answer to your question. Worse, I don't know if anyone does. Chuck Maack knows a lot about this than I do and may be able to weigh in with some more informed ideas. Here is what I know about it (partly from reading Chuck's postings.) Avodart, and to a lesser extent Proscar, inhibits the action of 5-alpha reductase, a category of enzyme that catalyzes (greatly increases) the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, a chemical that, among other things, stimulates the growth of prostate cancer much more than plain old testosterone. By inhibiting the enzyme, it appears that this slows the growth of prostate cancer. That would appear to be a good thing. However whether it is actually a good thing isn't 100% clear. Some scientists now argue that we shouldn't be attacking cancer with small amounts of light weight drugs. They argue that that just makes it easier for the cancer to become drug resistant. The idea is similar to the idea that you shouldn't use small and inadequate doses of antibiotics, which can just lead to your having an antibiotic resistant infection. These scientists think one should bombard the cancer with heavy doses of heavy weight drugs, with each drug contributing to damaging the cancer cells and the effect of each drug being stronger because the cancer cells have already been weakened by the other drugs. Those scientists might argue that hormone therapy should be given in powerful doses, so called " ADT3 " . That would combine an LHRH agonist like Lupron, an anti-androgen like Casodex, and a 5-AR inhibitor like Avodart - all at once. The problem with these theories is that there isn't yet a clear scientific consensus. You could ask your family doctor what he thinks, but he is unlikely to know. You could ask two different oncologists and get two different answers. I think the best thing to do is to try to find a medical oncologist with a lot of experience in prostate cancer, and discuss the issues with him. He or she may not know the answer either, but is likely to have more insights than I do, and also be able to look at the individual parameters of your particular case - PSA velocity, staging, etc., to give you a more informed opinion. He or she may also recommend certain baseline blood tests to be done before you start any drug therapy that will enable him or her to use later tests to determine how well or poorly you're doing on the drug. Best of luck. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 That is difficult to answer. My gut reaction is that it would be like taking a small knife to a gunfight. Good luck and good health " Il faut d'abord durer " Hemingway Re: Proscar and Avodart > To the best of anyone's knowledge out there, would there be any harm in > taking proscar or avodart with the hope that it will slow down cancer > growth? I know that there are no guarantees, but can they hurt anything? > Has anyone run into permanent side effects that are bad? > > I know that the warning is that the PSA should be halved (or close to it) > so you have to watch the new baseline and if the PSA increases from there, > there are issues. But with that in mind, is there any reason not to take > one of them for protection when you know you have PCa, and don't want to > do most treatments? > > Thanks for your help. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > There are just two rules for this group > 1 No Spam > 2 Be kind to others > > Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs > different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some > men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not > choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we > cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at > other options. > > Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply > Try to change the title if the content requires it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Kennedy wrote: > That is difficult to answer. My gut reaction is that it would be like taking > a small knife to a gunfight. I used about 500 words to say something like that, and I don't think I was nearly as eloquent. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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