religion and other potentially offensive topics

[Guest guest]

mentioned:

<< Do you go to church? If so, talk to her about God. That's one definate way of chasing someone off! I do it, but with the best of intentions, and people seem to fly the other way! >>

Warning: This post may offend some people who feel very strongly about religion, so please don't read any further if all you're going to do is yell at me and tell me I'm going to hell. I'll get wherever I'm going without help from anyone but the Divine. So here goes:

Oh, .

You are such a nice person so I feel like I should say this to help you out a little. You do come across a wee bit strong concerning matters of God and religion. That may be why people feel uncomfortable hearing it. I know I felt a little twinge recently when you mentioned how your daughter was exposed to scientific teachings that you disagree with and that the experience soured her on religion. I didn't say anything because I felt it would be inappropriate, and off-topic for this list, but now that you're admitting people often turn from your witnessing, I feel it may be okay for me to offer some unsolicited advice on why they won't listen to your words.

I feel it's a great pity that anyone would turn from their faith based on a falsity, but for some people God doesn't speak in quite the same way as He does to you, and it's tougher to listen. I was raised Catholic; baptized, first communion, confirmed, and then I left the church because it wasn't for me. My mother is devoutly Catholic and we've been through some hard times accepting my break from her faith, but she's always been there for me and we've reached the point where she's cool with my being a pagan as long as I do acknowledge and believe in the Divine. She knows that I just express my faith differently than she does. I couldn't accept a church that I felt was based on guilt, and a spiritual book that told me in no uncertain terms I'd be tormented for all eternity because I don't like boys. I know the Divine is out there but I think the message got lost in translation. God did not write the Bible. Men did, and men are interpreting it, and men sometimes make mistakes.

I believe that all gods are one God, and that He certainly doesn't get offended regardless of whether you choose to accept him as a Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, or anything else you might be. And if you're agonostic or an atheist, that's okay too... you don't need to believe in order to be believed in. I personally wouldn't want anything to do with a God who demanded I get on my knees and worship before he'd speak to me. I might worship anyway because I choose to do so because it makes me feel good, but obligated to? Nope. I don't believe that atheists and nuns are treated differently after this life. It's just that the nuns receive a little bit of their reward in THIS life because they're touched by the Divine every day, whereas the atheist is always alone.

I went through my great spiritual crisis soon after I was diagnosed with RA. I couldn't accept that a God who was supposed to love the little children could possibly be doing this to me. How hypocritical is it that we accept all the good things in this world as coming from God's love, and we dismiss the bad things as our own creations? You can't have it both ways. Either all things good and bad come from the Divine, or we're muddling through all by ourselves. There is no pick and choose and in order to have faith you have to be strong enough to accept that not everything God hands out is full of love and light. There has to be a balance.

In any case, what I started out saying is that everyone experiences the Divine in a very personal way, and when we hear from another person that our way is wrong, we tend to flee. It isn't a reflection on you or your faith; it's that you're saying "this is what helps me experience the divine!" and they're hearing "you should do it my way too because your way is all wrong!"

Lost in translation. A lot of things are.

hoping I didn't offend the whole list,

Jenni

[Guest guest]

Jenni,

Just FYI, you certainly didn't offend me.

I thought you said it very well.

Hugs, Jacy

~Dogs have owners but Cats have staff.

jacymail@...IM: jacygal - ICQ: 96949087www.geocities.com/mtn_rose

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-----Original Message-----From: Jenni [mailto:chaospearl@...]Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:09Rheumatoid Arthritis Subject: religion and other potentially offensive topics

mentioned:

<< Do you go to church? If so, talk to her about God. That's one definate way of chasing someone off! I do it, but with the best of intentions, and people seem to fly the other way! >>

Warning: This post may offend some people who feel very strongly about religion, so please don't read any further if all you're going to do is yell at me and tell me I'm going to hell. I'll get wherever I'm going without help from anyone but the Divine. So here goes:

Oh, .

You are such a nice person so I feel like I should say this to help you out a little. You do come across a wee bit strong concerning matters of God and religion. That may be why people feel uncomfortable hearing it. I know I felt a little twinge recently when you mentioned how your daughter was exposed to scientific teachings that you disagree with and that the experience soured her on religion. I didn't say anything because I felt it would be inappropriate, and off-topic for this list, but now that you're admitting people often turn from your witnessing, I feel it may be okay for me to offer some unsolicited advice on why they won't listen to your words.

I feel it's a great pity that anyone would turn from their faith based on a falsity, but for some people God doesn't speak in quite the same way as He does to you, and it's tougher to listen. I was raised Catholic; baptized, first communion, confirmed, and then I left the church because it wasn't for me. My mother is devoutly Catholic and we've been through some hard times accepting my break from her faith, but she's always been there for me and we've reached the point where she's cool with my being a pagan as long as I do acknowledge and believe in the Divine. She knows that I just express my faith differently than she does. I couldn't accept a church that I felt was based on guilt, and a spiritual book that told me in no uncertain terms I'd be tormented for all eternity because I don't like boys. I know the Divine is out there but I think the message got lost in translation. God did not write the Bible. Men did, and men are interpreting it, and men sometimes make mistakes.

I believe that all gods are one God, and that He certainly doesn't get offended regardless of whether you choose to accept him as a Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, or anything else you might be. And if you're agonostic or an atheist, that's okay too... you don't need to believe in order to be believed in. I personally wouldn't want anything to do with a God who demanded I get on my knees and worship before he'd speak to me. I might worship anyway because I choose to do so because it makes me feel good, but obligated to? Nope. I don't believe that atheists and nuns are treated differently after this life. It's just that the nuns receive a little bit of their reward in THIS life because they're touched by the Divine every day, whereas the atheist is always alone.

I went through my great spiritual crisis soon after I was diagnosed with RA. I couldn't accept that a God who was supposed to love the little children could possibly be doing this to me. How hypocritical is it that we accept all the good things in this world as coming from God's love, and we dismiss the bad things as our own creations? You can't have it both ways. Either all things good and bad come from the Divine, or we're muddling through all by ourselves. There is no pick and choose and in order to have faith you have to be strong enough to accept that not everything God hands out is full of love and light. There has to be a balance.

In any case, what I started out saying is that everyone experiences the Divine in a very personal way, and when we hear from another person that our way is wrong, we tend to flee. It isn't a reflection on you or your faith; it's that you're saying "this is what helps me experience the divine!" and they're hearing "you should do it my way too because your way is all wrong!"

Lost in translation. A lot of things are.

hoping I didn't offend the whole list,

Jenni

[Guest guest]

What in the world was that all about? I must confess that I am really confused. Obviously I have offended someone out there. I apologize for the upset and I won't say anymore. Thanks to the regulars who have been supportive since I've been on this group and I wish you all well.~Jacy <jacymail@...> wrote:

Jenni,

Just FYI, you certainly didn't offend me.

I thought you said it very well.

Hugs, Jacy

~Dogs have owners but Cats have staff.

jacymail@...IM: jacygal - ICQ: 96949087www.geocities.com/mtn_rose

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-----Original Message-----From: Jenni [mailto:chaospearl@...]Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:09Rheumatoid Arthritis Subject: religion and other potentially offensive topics

mentioned:

<< Do you go to church? If so, talk to her about God. That's one definate way of chasing someone off! I do it, but with the best of intentions, and people seem to fly the other way! >>

Warning: This post may offend some people who feel very strongly about religion, so please don't read any further if all you're going to do is yell at me and tell me I'm going to hell. I'll get wherever I'm going without help from anyone but the Divine. So here goes:

Oh, .

You are such a nice person so I feel like I should say this to help you out a little. You do come across a wee bit strong concerning matters of God and religion. That may be why people feel uncomfortable hearing it. I know I felt a little twinge recently when you mentioned how your daughter was exposed to scientific teachings that you disagree with and that the experience soured her on religion. I didn't say anything because I felt it would be inappropriate, and off-topic for this list, but now that you're admitting people often turn from your witnessing, I feel it may be okay for me to offer some unsolicited advice on why they won't listen to your words.

I feel it's a great pity that anyone would turn from their faith based on a falsity, but for some people God doesn't speak in quite the same way as He does to you, and it's tougher to listen. I was raised Catholic; baptized, first communion, confirmed, and then I left the church because it wasn't for me. My mother is devoutly Catholic and we've been through some hard times accepting my break from her faith, but she's always been there for me and we've reached the point where she's cool with my being a pagan as long as I do acknowledge and believe in the Divine. She knows that I just express my faith differently than she does. I couldn't accept a church that I felt was based on guilt, and a spiritual book that told me in no uncertain terms I'd be tormented for all eternity because I don't like boys. I know the Divine is out there but I think the message got lost in translation. God did not write the

Bible. Men did, and men are interpreting it, and men sometimes make mistakes.

I believe that all gods are one God, and that He certainly doesn't get offended regardless of whether you choose to accept him as a Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, or anything else you might be. And if you're agonostic or an atheist, that's okay too... you don't need to believe in order to be believed in. I personally wouldn't want anything to do with a God who demanded I get on my knees and worship before he'd speak to me. I might worship anyway because I choose to do so because it makes me feel good, but obligated to? Nope. I don't believe that atheists and nuns are treated differently after this life. It's just that the nuns receive a little bit of their reward in THIS life because they're touched by the Divine every day, whereas the atheist is always alone.

I went through my great spiritual crisis soon after I was diagnosed with RA. I couldn't accept that a God who was supposed to love the little children could possibly be doing this to me. How hypocritical is it that we accept all the good things in this world as coming from God's love, and we dismiss the bad things as our own creations? You can't have it both ways. Either all things good and bad come from the Divine, or we're muddling through all by ourselves. There is no pick and choose and in order to have faith you have to be strong enough to accept that not everything God hands out is full of love and light. There has to be a balance.

In any case, what I started out saying is that everyone experiences the Divine in a very personal way, and when we hear from another person that our way is wrong, we tend to flee. It isn't a reflection on you or your faith; it's that you're saying "this is what helps me experience the divine!" and they're hearing "you should do it my way too because your way is all wrong!"

Lost in translation. A lot of things are.

hoping I didn't offend the whole list,

Jenni

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Jenni, For your information, there was more to what I said to that girl then the quick line you responded to. Look, I know that you're new here, but I'm not,. and we've all been able to say things and to just talk cause that's why we're here! I will not say a word to what you wrote about your beliefs, because that's just it, they're yours. I was ready to walk away from this group and FYI, a lot of us are believers and that's the way it is and the reason that I talk about my faith is because it means so much to me. You don't know me, and you don't know where I've been or what I've gone through, so if having faith and discussing God makes some people uncomfortable,. well, deal with it. I don't like being rude, but I will defend my faith and my right to say things. This country was once founded on faith and stood on it's values and because they turned away, this place and a lot of the people in it are in a bad way. I wouldn't go so

far as to tell someone they believe the wrong things or go to the wrong church, because it isn't my job to judge and this group was/is a good place to make friends and care about one another and we don't need any remarks to stir up trouble. Please save your opinions and for that matter, I wasn't addressing you in either letter that was written. Please MYOB!~shelly smiegal <shelsmieg2000@...> wrote:

What in the world was that all about? I must confess that I am really confused. Obviously I have offended someone out there. I apologize for the upset and I won't say anymore. Thanks to the regulars who have been supportive since I've been on this group and I wish you all well.~Jacy <jacymail@...> wrote:

Jenni,

Just FYI, you certainly didn't offend me.

I thought you said it very well.

Hugs, Jacy

~Dogs have owners but Cats have staff.

jacymail@...IM: jacygal - ICQ: 96949087www.geocities.com/mtn_rose

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-----Original Message-----From: Jenni [mailto:chaospearl@...]Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:09Rheumatoid Arthritis Subject: religion and other potentially offensive topics

mentioned:

<< Do you go to church? If so, talk to her about God. That's one definate way of chasing someone off! I do it, but with the best of intentions, and people seem to fly the other way! >>

Warning: This post may offend some people who feel very strongly about religion, so please don't read any further if all you're going to do is yell at me and tell me I'm going to hell. I'll get wherever I'm going without help from anyone but the Divine. So here goes:

Oh, .

You are such a nice person so I feel like I should say this to help you out a little. You do come across a wee bit strong concerning matters of God and religion. That may be why people feel uncomfortable hearing it. I know I felt a little twinge recently when you mentioned how your daughter was exposed to scientific teachings that you disagree with and that the experience soured her on religion. I didn't say anything because I felt it would be inappropriate, and off-topic for this list, but now that you're admitting people often turn from your witnessing, I feel it may be okay for me to offer some unsolicited advice on why they won't listen to your words.

I feel it's a great pity that anyone would turn from their faith based on a falsity, but for some people God doesn't speak in quite the same way as He does to you, and it's tougher to listen. I was raised Catholic; baptized, first communion, confirmed, and then I left the church because it wasn't for me. My mother is devoutly Catholic and we've been through some hard times accepting my break from her faith, but she's always been there for me and we've reached the point where she's cool with my being a pagan as long as I do acknowledge and believe in the Divine. She knows that I just express my faith differently than she does. I couldn't accept a church that I felt was based on guilt, and a spiritual book that told me in no uncertain terms I'd be tormented for all eternity because I don't like boys. I know the Divine is out there but I think the message got lost in translation. God did not write the

Bible. Men did, and men are interpreting it, and men sometimes make mistakes.

I believe that all gods are one God, and that He certainly doesn't get offended regardless of whether you choose to accept him as a Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, or anything else you might be. And if you're agonostic or an atheist, that's okay too... you don't need to believe in order to be believed in. I personally wouldn't want anything to do with a God who demanded I get on my knees and worship before he'd speak to me. I might worship anyway because I choose to do so because it makes me feel good, but obligated to? Nope. I don't believe that atheists and nuns are treated differently after this life. It's just that the nuns receive a little bit of their reward in THIS life because they're touched by the Divine every day, whereas the atheist is always alone.

I went through my great spiritual crisis soon after I was diagnosed with RA. I couldn't accept that a God who was supposed to love the little children could possibly be doing this to me. How hypocritical is it that we accept all the good things in this world as coming from God's love, and we dismiss the bad things as our own creations? You can't have it both ways. Either all things good and bad come from the Divine, or we're muddling through all by ourselves. There is no pick and choose and in order to have faith you have to be strong enough to accept that not everything God hands out is full of love and light. There has to be a balance.

In any case, what I started out saying is that everyone experiences the Divine in a very personal way, and when we hear from another person that our way is wrong, we tend to flee. It isn't a reflection on you or your faith; it's that you're saying "this is what helps me experience the divine!" and they're hearing "you should do it my way too because your way is all wrong!"

Lost in translation. A lot of things are.

hoping I didn't offend the whole list,

Jenni

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Wow, what letter you wrote Jenni! I too believe as you do and I heard the other day at a church I went to that we are considered "free thinkers".

It makes sense that there is black and white, healthy and sick, night and day, evil and good, etc. to keep a balance.

You go girl!!

Eva

----- Original Message -----

From: Jenni

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:09 AM

Subject: religion and other potentially offensive topics

mentioned:

<< Do you go to church? If so, talk to her about God. That's one definate way of chasing someone off! I do it, but with the best of intentions, and people seem to fly the other way! >>

Warning: This post may offend some people who feel very strongly about religion, so please don't read any further if all you're going to do is yell at me and tell me I'm going to hell. I'll get wherever I'm going without help from anyone but the Divine. So here goes:

Oh, .

You are such a nice person so I feel like I should say this to help you out a little. You do come across a wee bit strong concerning matters of God and religion. That may be why people feel uncomfortable hearing it. I know I felt a little twinge recently when you mentioned how your daughter was exposed to scientific teachings that you disagree with and that the experience soured her on religion. I didn't say anything because I felt it would be inappropriate, and off-topic for this list, but now that you're admitting people often turn from your witnessing, I feel it may be okay for me to offer some unsolicited advice on why they won't listen to your words.

I feel it's a great pity that anyone would turn from their faith based on a falsity, but for some people God doesn't speak in quite the same way as He does to you, and it's tougher to listen. I was raised Catholic; baptized, first communion, confirmed, and then I left the church because it wasn't for me. My mother is devoutly Catholic and we've been through some hard times accepting my break from her faith, but she's always been there for me and we've reached the point where she's cool with my being a pagan as long as I do acknowledge and believe in the Divine. She knows that I just express my faith differently than she does. I couldn't accept a church that I felt was based on guilt, and a spiritual book that told me in no uncertain terms I'd be tormented for all eternity because I don't like boys. I know the Divine is out there but I think the message got lost in translation. God did not write the Bible. Men did, and men are interpreting it, and men sometimes make mistakes.

I believe that all gods are one God, and that He certainly doesn't get offended regardless of whether you choose to accept him as a Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, or anything else you might be. And if you're agonostic or an atheist, that's okay too... you don't need to believe in order to be believed in. I personally wouldn't want anything to do with a God who demanded I get on my knees and worship before he'd speak to me. I might worship anyway because I choose to do so because it makes me feel good, but obligated to? Nope. I don't believe that atheists and nuns are treated differently after this life. It's just that the nuns receive a little bit of their reward in THIS life because they're touched by the Divine every day, whereas the atheist is always alone.

I went through my great spiritual crisis soon after I was diagnosed with RA. I couldn't accept that a God who was supposed to love the little children could possibly be doing this to me. How hypocritical is it that we accept all the good things in this world as coming from God's love, and we dismiss the bad things as our own creations? You can't have it both ways. Either all things good and bad come from the Divine, or we're muddling through all by ourselves. There is no pick and choose and in order to have faith you have to be strong enough to accept that not everything God hands out is full of love and light. There has to be a balance.

In any case, what I started out saying is that everyone experiences the Divine in a very personal way, and when we hear from another person that our way is wrong, we tend to flee. It isn't a reflection on you or your faith; it's that you're saying "this is what helps me experience the divine!" and they're hearing "you should do it my way too because your way is all wrong!"

Lost in translation. A lot of things are.

hoping I didn't offend the whole list,

Jenni

[Guest guest]

,

You didn't offend anyone either.

Sorry I am so behind in my posts but life has been overly busy and I had to put my lists on no mail last night. I am heading out of town for a long weekend and I will flood my mailbox otherwise. So I will see all y'all on Tuesday when I am home again!

Have a safe and fun weekend. Please don't respond to me on this because I won't see it!

Hugs, Jacy

~Dogs have owners but Cats have staff.

jacymail@...IM: jacygal - ICQ: 96949087www.geocities.com/mtn_rose

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-----Original Message-----From: shelly smiegal [mailto:shelsmieg2000@...]Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 13:28Rheumatoid Arthritis Subject: RE: religion and other potentially offensive topics

What in the world was that all about? I must confess that I am really confused. Obviously I have offended someone out there. I apologize for the upset and I won't say anymore. Thanks to the regulars who have been supportive since I've been on this group and I wish you all well.~Jacy <jacymail@...> wrote:

Jenni,

Just FYI, you certainly didn't offend me.

I thought you said it very well.

Hugs, Jacy

~Dogs have owners but Cats have staff.

jacymail@...IM: jacygal - ICQ: 96949087www.geocities.com/mtn_rose

Signature powered by Plaxo

Want a signature like this?

-----Original Message-----From: Jenni [mailto:chaospearl@...]Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:09Rheumatoid Arthritis Subject: religion and other potentially offensive topics

mentioned:

<< Do you go to church? If so, talk to her about God. That's one definate way of chasing someone off! I do it, but with the best of intentions, and people seem to fly the other way! >>

Warning: This post may offend some people who feel very strongly about religion, so please don't read any further if all you're going to do is yell at me and tell me I'm going to hell. I'll get wherever I'm going without help from anyone but the Divine. So here goes:

Oh, .

You are such a nice person so I feel like I should say this to help you out a little. You do come across a wee bit strong concerning matters of God and religion. That may be why people feel uncomfortable hearing it. I know I felt a little twinge recently when you mentioned how your daughter was exposed to scientific teachings that you disagree with and that the experience soured her on religion. I didn't say anything because I felt it would be inappropriate, and off-topic for this list, but now that you're admitting people often turn from your witnessing, I feel it may be okay for me to offer some unsolicited advice on why they won't listen to your words.

I feel it's a great pity that anyone would turn from their faith based on a falsity, but for some people God doesn't speak in quite the same way as He does to you, and it's tougher to listen. I was raised Catholic; baptized, first communion, confirmed, and then I left the church because it wasn't for me. My mother is devoutly Catholic and we've been through some hard times accepting my break from her faith, but she's always been there for me and we've reached the point where she's cool with my being a pagan as long as I do acknowledge and believe in the Divine. She knows that I just express my faith differently than she does. I couldn't accept a church that I felt was based on guilt, and a spiritual book that told me in no uncertain terms I'd be tormented for all eternity because I don't like boys. I know the Divine is out there but I think the message got lost in translation. God did not write the Bible. Men did, and men are interpreting it, and men sometimes make mistakes.

I believe that all gods are one God, and that He certainly doesn't get offended regardless of whether you choose to accept him as a Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, or anything else you might be. And if you're agonostic or an atheist, that's okay too... you don't need to believe in order to be believed in. I personally wouldn't want anything to do with a God who demanded I get on my knees and worship before he'd speak to me. I might worship anyway because I choose to do so because it makes me feel good, but obligated to? Nope. I don't believe that atheists and nuns are treated differently after this life. It's just that the nuns receive a little bit of their reward in THIS life because they're touched by the Divine every day, whereas the atheist is always alone.

I went through my great spiritual crisis soon after I was diagnosed with RA. I couldn't accept that a God who was supposed to love the little children could possibly be doing this to me. How hypocritical is it that we accept all the good things in this world as coming from God's love, and we dismiss the bad things as our own creations? You can't have it both ways. Either all things good and bad come from the Divine, or we're muddling through all by ourselves. There is no pick and choose and in order to have faith you have to be strong enough to accept that not everything God hands out is full of love and light. There has to be a balance.

In any case, what I started out saying is that everyone experiences the Divine in a very personal way, and when we hear from another person that our way is wrong, we tend to flee. It isn't a reflection on you or your faith; it's that you're saying "this is what helps me experience the divine!" and they're hearing "you should do it my way too because your way is all wrong!"

Lost in translation. A lot of things are.

hoping I didn't offend the whole list,

Jenni

__________________________________________________