Re: 16 months post IGRT PSA level

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

I am no expert but it is my understanding that some cancer cells are hormone sensitive and others are not affected by reduced testosterone. Eventually, even the sensitive ones learn to survive also this is called hormone refractory.

That said, many people are kept alive for years with ADT. The cells that are sensitive will be affected. Also, it is important that PSA tests should be done by the same laboratory using the same procedure. ADT is not without side effects so that should also be considered. Maybe a repeat PSA might be a good idea.

Harry

Subject: 16 months post IGRT PSA levelTo: ProstateCancerSupport Date: Thursday, February 25, 2010, 9:20 AM

Hi Group,Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows? Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment? Does it significantly increase survival time?Any advice appreciated, Malaga, Spain ------------------------------------There are just two rules for this group 1 No Spam 2 Be kind to othersPlease recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at other options. Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking replyTry to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

My impression is that this may be down to the variations between tests and I

wouldn't sweat over one result.

If the next one is higher still then it is a matter of when to take action.

There are pros and cons to taking immediate action.

B

16 months post IGRT PSA level

> Hi Group,

>

> Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT (no hormone

> TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to 1.94 two days ago. Not

> sure

> what to make of it as I don't see my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any

> thoughts as to what to ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment

> failure?

> Should I be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?

> Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment? Does it

> significantly increase survival time?

>

> Any advice appreciated,

>

> Malaga, Spain

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> There are just two rules for this group

> 1 No Spam

> 2 Be kind to others

>

> Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

> different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

> men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

> choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we

> cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at

> other options.

>

> Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

> Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

1.74 and 1.94 are, to all intents and purposes the same. It is simply not

possible to measure PSA accurately consistently outside the laboratory. The

normal range is 20% - 25% either side, which is why PSA results could be

quoted as a range with a median.

See http://www.yananow.net/PSA101.htm and

http://www.yananow.net/UltraPSA.htm

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in '96: and have

learned a bit since then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr " Snuffy " Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most

of the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with

inadequate data "

16 months post IGRT PSA level

Hi Group,

Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT (no hormone

TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to 1.94 two days ago. Not sure

what to make of it as I don't see my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any

thoughts as to what to ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure?

Should I be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?

Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment? Does it

significantly increase survival time?

Any advice appreciated,

Malaga, Spain

------------------------------------

There are just two rules for this group

1 No Spam

2 Be kind to others

Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we cannot

and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at other

options.

Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

1.74 and 1.94 are, to all intents and purposes the same. It is simply not

possible to measure PSA accurately consistently outside the laboratory. The

normal range is 20% - 25% either side, which is why PSA results could be

quoted as a range with a median.

See http://www.yananow.net/PSA101.htm and

http://www.yananow.net/UltraPSA.htm

All the best

Terry Herbert

I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in '96: and have

learned a bit since then.

My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.za

Dr " Snuffy " Myers : " As a physician, I am painfully aware that most

of the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made with

inadequate data "

16 months post IGRT PSA level

Hi Group,

Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT (no hormone

TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to 1.94 two days ago. Not sure

what to make of it as I don't see my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any

thoughts as to what to ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure?

Should I be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?

Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment? Does it

significantly increase survival time?

Any advice appreciated,

Malaga, Spain

------------------------------------

There are just two rules for this group

1 No Spam

2 Be kind to others

Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we cannot

and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at other

options.

Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Thanks Terry, , Randy and everyone else who has answered. While I will obviuosly bring this up with my Onco (appointment now next Wed), I was hoping to hear something along the lines of what Terry has just written i.e it is a statistically insignificant change, if it is a change at all - DOWN would have been good though! My test was done at the same lab and even by the same technician as last time but I have just noticed that their scale (and average range) for testosterone has changed completely from the last set of tests, so perhaps the PSA testing isn't consistent either. Anyway my own thoughts are to wait and see what next quarter's tests show, and it is nice to have support for that view. I'm always very careful to make sure I don't introduce any variables into the equation so always refrain from sex or any possible prostatic stimulation for at least 48 if not 72 hours before testing, also stick to same time in the day.

Thanks again to all, will update on Wednesday afternoon.

Spain

RE: 16 months post IGRT PSA level

1.74 and 1.94 are, to all intents and purposes the same. It is simply notpossible to measure PSA accurately consistently outside the laboratory. Thenormal range is 20% - 25% either side, which is why PSA results could bequoted as a range with a median.See http://www.yananow.net/PSA101.htm andhttp://www.yananow.net/UltraPSA.htm All the bestTerry Herbert I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in '96: and havelearned a bit since then. My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.zaDr "Snuffy" Myers : "As a physician, I am painfully aware that mostof the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made withinadequate data"-----Original Message-----From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of elhorizonteSent: Friday, 26 February 2010 1:21 AMTo: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: 16 months post IGRT PSA levelHi Group,Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows? Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment? Does it significantly increase survival time?Any advice appreciated, Malaga, Spain ------------------------------------There are just two rules for this group 1 No Spam 2 Be kind to othersPlease recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needsdifferent levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Somemen even with all options offered chose radical options that you would notchoose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we cannotand should not tell other members what to do, other than look at otheroptions. Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking replyTry to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Thanks Terry, , Randy and everyone else who has answered. While I will obviuosly bring this up with my Onco (appointment now next Wed), I was hoping to hear something along the lines of what Terry has just written i.e it is a statistically insignificant change, if it is a change at all - DOWN would have been good though! My test was done at the same lab and even by the same technician as last time but I have just noticed that their scale (and average range) for testosterone has changed completely from the last set of tests, so perhaps the PSA testing isn't consistent either. Anyway my own thoughts are to wait and see what next quarter's tests show, and it is nice to have support for that view. I'm always very careful to make sure I don't introduce any variables into the equation so always refrain from sex or any possible prostatic stimulation for at least 48 if not 72 hours before testing, also stick to same time in the day.

Thanks again to all, will update on Wednesday afternoon.

Spain

RE: 16 months post IGRT PSA level

1.74 and 1.94 are, to all intents and purposes the same. It is simply notpossible to measure PSA accurately consistently outside the laboratory. Thenormal range is 20% - 25% either side, which is why PSA results could bequoted as a range with a median.See http://www.yananow.net/PSA101.htm andhttp://www.yananow.net/UltraPSA.htm All the bestTerry Herbert I have no medical qualifications but I was diagnosed in '96: and havelearned a bit since then. My sites are at www.yananow.net and www.prostatecancerwatchfulwaiting.co.zaDr "Snuffy" Myers : "As a physician, I am painfully aware that mostof the decisions we make with regard to prostate cancer are made withinadequate data"-----Original Message-----From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of elhorizonteSent: Friday, 26 February 2010 1:21 AMTo: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: 16 months post IGRT PSA levelHi Group,Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows? Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment? Does it significantly increase survival time?Any advice appreciated, Malaga, Spain ------------------------------------There are just two rules for this group 1 No Spam 2 Be kind to othersPlease recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needsdifferent levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Somemen even with all options offered chose radical options that you would notchoose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we cannotand should not tell other members what to do, other than look at otheroptions. Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking replyTry to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for detailed reply. I guess this is when I find out what my relationship with my new Onco (now 3rd female) is going to be like. She is the first who has not been involved in my Tx since diagnosis and my last consult was brief as PSA was going as we both wished so I couldn't judge her.

Yes I'm thinking suppliments too. I've been mega dosing on broccoli over last 3 months, largely to help my cholesterol (a success down from 354 to 212 today) and I've just finished the last of my home grown pomegranates from the freezer but I think will move to Pom tabs - haven't found any in Spain but the net should easily solve that. As part of anticholesterol diet I've replaced ham/cheese with mushroom (dairy free) pate and recently read 'shrooms are good anticancer so will keep up with that. Not absolutley convinced by the diet versus cancer argument but as I like the stuff anyway and it's helping my hipercholesterolemia I might as well stick with anything that may help. I think I'm probably well dosed with the red wine beneficial components already but also reduce down a cpl glasses into the mushroom or spinach pates.

Will ask Onco about Ibuprofen/Aspirin.

Thanks again,

Spain

Re: 16 months post IGRT PSA level

elhorizonte <elhorizontetelefonica (DOT) net> wrote:> Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT> (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to> 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see> my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to> ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I> be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?> Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment?> Does it significantly increase survival time?Although it's hard not to be concerned about the new PSA test, Inevertheless agree with everyone else that this is not yetevidence of treatment failure.It is my understanding that radiation can take three or moreyears to destroy the cancer after treatment. I know in my owncase, it took four years after treatment for my PSA to drop below0.1, and it bounced around quite a bit during that period.Even if you believed it was a recurrence, it is probably not agood idea to begin ADT so soon. If I understood Dr. Myers'opinion on this (see the posting about it from a few days ago),unless the PSA is galloping away, you want to spend some time,first to find out what the PSA doubling rate is, and second tosee if you can slow it down or halt it without ADT.Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply buying time? I think theanswer is Yes and Yes. It may not kill every last cancer cell inyour body, but it might buy you so much time that that reallydoesn't matter. How well it does that depends on how aggressiveand how hormone sensitive your cancer is. If the cancer is nothighly aggressive (and you have no evidence yet that it isaggressive), and/or if it's highly hormone sensitive (you have noevidence yet one way or the other about that), it can keep youalive for decades.In the meantime, I would consider trying to bring the PSA down byother means. I'm not sure what they are. I'd be tempted to trypomegranate juice or extract (I take a pom extract capsule everyday), maybe an anti-inflammatory (there's evidence that ibuprofenand aspirin both have a restraining effect on PCa), mayberesveratrol (found in red wine) and I don't know what else.Others here may be more up on the supplements story than I am.The impact of supplements like these is poorly understood. Somethat are shown to work in some studies turn out not to work inothers. There's lots of hope and hype and not a lot of sciencein the supplement story. But some of them at least are cheap andsafe, so I take them.You'll get a little more info in 3 months, and a little more 3months after that. Hopefully you'll see some down numbers in oneor both of those tests.Good luck.Alan

[Guest guest]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for detailed reply. I guess this is when I find out what my relationship with my new Onco (now 3rd female) is going to be like. She is the first who has not been involved in my Tx since diagnosis and my last consult was brief as PSA was going as we both wished so I couldn't judge her.

Yes I'm thinking suppliments too. I've been mega dosing on broccoli over last 3 months, largely to help my cholesterol (a success down from 354 to 212 today) and I've just finished the last of my home grown pomegranates from the freezer but I think will move to Pom tabs - haven't found any in Spain but the net should easily solve that. As part of anticholesterol diet I've replaced ham/cheese with mushroom (dairy free) pate and recently read 'shrooms are good anticancer so will keep up with that. Not absolutley convinced by the diet versus cancer argument but as I like the stuff anyway and it's helping my hipercholesterolemia I might as well stick with anything that may help. I think I'm probably well dosed with the red wine beneficial components already but also reduce down a cpl glasses into the mushroom or spinach pates.

Will ask Onco about Ibuprofen/Aspirin.

Thanks again,

Spain

Re: 16 months post IGRT PSA level

elhorizonte <elhorizontetelefonica (DOT) net> wrote:> Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT> (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to> 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see> my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to> ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I> be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?> Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment?> Does it significantly increase survival time?Although it's hard not to be concerned about the new PSA test, Inevertheless agree with everyone else that this is not yetevidence of treatment failure.It is my understanding that radiation can take three or moreyears to destroy the cancer after treatment. I know in my owncase, it took four years after treatment for my PSA to drop below0.1, and it bounced around quite a bit during that period.Even if you believed it was a recurrence, it is probably not agood idea to begin ADT so soon. If I understood Dr. Myers'opinion on this (see the posting about it from a few days ago),unless the PSA is galloping away, you want to spend some time,first to find out what the PSA doubling rate is, and second tosee if you can slow it down or halt it without ADT.Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply buying time? I think theanswer is Yes and Yes. It may not kill every last cancer cell inyour body, but it might buy you so much time that that reallydoesn't matter. How well it does that depends on how aggressiveand how hormone sensitive your cancer is. If the cancer is nothighly aggressive (and you have no evidence yet that it isaggressive), and/or if it's highly hormone sensitive (you have noevidence yet one way or the other about that), it can keep youalive for decades.In the meantime, I would consider trying to bring the PSA down byother means. I'm not sure what they are. I'd be tempted to trypomegranate juice or extract (I take a pom extract capsule everyday), maybe an anti-inflammatory (there's evidence that ibuprofenand aspirin both have a restraining effect on PCa), mayberesveratrol (found in red wine) and I don't know what else.Others here may be more up on the supplements story than I am.The impact of supplements like these is poorly understood. Somethat are shown to work in some studies turn out not to work inothers. There's lots of hope and hype and not a lot of sciencein the supplement story. But some of them at least are cheap andsafe, so I take them.You'll get a little more info in 3 months, and a little more 3months after that. Hopefully you'll see some down numbers in oneor both of those tests.Good luck.Alan

[Guest guest]

elhorizonte wrote:

> Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT

> (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to

> 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see

> my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to

> ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I

> be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?

> Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment?

> Does it significantly increase survival time?

Although it's hard not to be concerned about the new PSA test, I

nevertheless agree with everyone else that this is not yet

evidence of treatment failure.

It is my understanding that radiation can take three or more

years to destroy the cancer after treatment. I know in my own

case, it took four years after treatment for my PSA to drop below

0.1, and it bounced around quite a bit during that period.

Even if you believed it was a recurrence, it is probably not a

good idea to begin ADT so soon. If I understood Dr. Myers'

opinion on this (see the posting about it from a few days ago),

unless the PSA is galloping away, you want to spend some time,

first to find out what the PSA doubling rate is, and second to

see if you can slow it down or halt it without ADT.

Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply buying time? I think the

answer is Yes and Yes. It may not kill every last cancer cell in

your body, but it might buy you so much time that that really

doesn't matter. How well it does that depends on how aggressive

and how hormone sensitive your cancer is. If the cancer is not

highly aggressive (and you have no evidence yet that it is

aggressive), and/or if it's highly hormone sensitive (you have no

evidence yet one way or the other about that), it can keep you

alive for decades.

In the meantime, I would consider trying to bring the PSA down by

other means. I'm not sure what they are. I'd be tempted to try

pomegranate juice or extract (I take a pom extract capsule every

day), maybe an anti-inflammatory (there's evidence that ibuprofen

and aspirin both have a restraining effect on PCa), maybe

resveratrol (found in red wine) and I don't know what else.

Others here may be more up on the supplements story than I am.

The impact of supplements like these is poorly understood. Some

that are shown to work in some studies turn out not to work in

others. There's lots of hope and hype and not a lot of science

in the supplement story. But some of them at least are cheap and

safe, so I take them.

You'll get a little more info in 3 months, and a little more 3

months after that. Hopefully you'll see some down numbers in one

or both of those tests.

Good luck.

Alan

[Guest guest]

Ok G

To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Thu, February 25, 2010 2:50:32 PMSubject: Re: 16 months post IGRT PSA level

elhorizonte <elhorizonte@ telefonica. net> wrote:> Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT> (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to> 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see> my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to> ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I> be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?> Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment?> Does it significantly increase survival time?Although it's hard not to be concerned about the new PSA test, Inevertheless agree with everyone else that this is not yetevidence of treatment failure.It is my understanding that radiation can take three or

moreyears to destroy the cancer after treatment. I know in my owncase, it took four years after treatment for my PSA to drop below0.1, and it bounced around quite a bit during that period.Even if you believed it was a recurrence, it is probably not agood idea to begin ADT so soon. If I understood Dr. Myers'opinion on this (see the posting about it from a few days ago),unless the PSA is galloping away, you want to spend some time,first to find out what the PSA doubling rate is, and second tosee if you can slow it down or halt it without ADT.Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply buying time? I think theanswer is Yes and Yes. It may not kill every last cancer cell inyour body, but it might buy you so much time that that reallydoesn't matter. How well it does that depends on how aggressiveand how hormone sensitive your cancer is. If the cancer is nothighly aggressive (and you have no

evidence yet that it isaggressive), and/or if it's highly hormone sensitive (you have noevidence yet one way or the other about that), it can keep youalive for decades.In the meantime, I would consider trying to bring the PSA down byother means. I'm not sure what they are. I'd be tempted to trypomegranate juice or extract (I take a pom extract capsule everyday), maybe an anti-inflammatory (there's evidence that ibuprofenand aspirin both have a restraining effect on PCa), mayberesveratrol (found in red wine) and I don't know what else.Others here may be more up on the supplements story than I am.The impact of supplements like these is poorly understood. Somethat are shown to work in some studies turn out not to work inothers. There's lots of hope and hype and not a lot of sciencein the supplement story. But some of them at least are cheap andsafe, so I take them.You'll get a

little more info in 3 months, and a little more 3months after that. Hopefully you'll see some down numbers in oneor both of those tests.Good luck.Alan

Ok Guys,

I went to doctor who is not an oncologist who works with cancer patients all of the time. He recommended a book which is better than anything I have read on anticancer foods and supplements. it is done by a medical doctor with a Phd. If you give me permission I will give the name. The doctor who reccomended it and I will not gain from the sell of this book.

?

Tom W.

[Guest guest]

Ok G

To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Thu, February 25, 2010 2:50:32 PMSubject: Re: 16 months post IGRT PSA level

elhorizonte <elhorizonte@ telefonica. net> wrote:> Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT> (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to> 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see> my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to> ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I> be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?> Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment?> Does it significantly increase survival time?Although it's hard not to be concerned about the new PSA test, Inevertheless agree with everyone else that this is not yetevidence of treatment failure.It is my understanding that radiation can take three or

moreyears to destroy the cancer after treatment. I know in my owncase, it took four years after treatment for my PSA to drop below0.1, and it bounced around quite a bit during that period.Even if you believed it was a recurrence, it is probably not agood idea to begin ADT so soon. If I understood Dr. Myers'opinion on this (see the posting about it from a few days ago),unless the PSA is galloping away, you want to spend some time,first to find out what the PSA doubling rate is, and second tosee if you can slow it down or halt it without ADT.Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply buying time? I think theanswer is Yes and Yes. It may not kill every last cancer cell inyour body, but it might buy you so much time that that reallydoesn't matter. How well it does that depends on how aggressiveand how hormone sensitive your cancer is. If the cancer is nothighly aggressive (and you have no

evidence yet that it isaggressive), and/or if it's highly hormone sensitive (you have noevidence yet one way or the other about that), it can keep youalive for decades.In the meantime, I would consider trying to bring the PSA down byother means. I'm not sure what they are. I'd be tempted to trypomegranate juice or extract (I take a pom extract capsule everyday), maybe an anti-inflammatory (there's evidence that ibuprofenand aspirin both have a restraining effect on PCa), mayberesveratrol (found in red wine) and I don't know what else.Others here may be more up on the supplements story than I am.The impact of supplements like these is poorly understood. Somethat are shown to work in some studies turn out not to work inothers. There's lots of hope and hype and not a lot of sciencein the supplement story. But some of them at least are cheap andsafe, so I take them.You'll get a

little more info in 3 months, and a little more 3months after that. Hopefully you'll see some down numbers in oneor both of those tests.Good luck.Alan

Ok Guys,

I went to doctor who is not an oncologist who works with cancer patients all of the time. He recommended a book which is better than anything I have read on anticancer foods and supplements. it is done by a medical doctor with a Phd. If you give me permission I will give the name. The doctor who reccomended it and I will not gain from the sell of this book.

?

Tom W.

[Guest guest]

You know how to make people in cold wet/snowy UK jealous, home grown pomegranites!!!

Re: 16 months post IGRT PSA level

elhorizonte <elhorizontetelefonica (DOT) net> wrote:> Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT> (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to> 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see> my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to> ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I> be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?> Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment?> Does it significantly increase survival time?Although it's hard not to be concerned about the new PSA test, Inevertheless agree with everyone else that this is not yetevidence of treatment failure.It is my understanding that radiation can take three or moreyears to destroy the cancer after treatment. I know in my owncase, it took four years after treatment for my PSA to drop below0.1, and it bounced around quite a bit during that period.Even if you believed it was a recurrence, it is probably not agood idea to begin ADT so soon. If I understood Dr. Myers'opinion on this (see the posting about it from a few days ago),unless the PSA is galloping away, you want to spend some time,first to find out what the PSA doubling rate is, and second tosee if you can slow it down or halt it without ADT.Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply buying time? I think theanswer is Yes and Yes. It may not kill every last cancer cell inyour body, but it might buy you so much time that that reallydoesn't matter. How well it does that depends on how aggressiveand how hormone sensitive your cancer is. If the cancer is nothighly aggressive (and you have no evidence yet that it isaggressive), and/or if it's highly hormone sensitive (you have noevidence yet one way or the other about that), it can keep youalive for decades.In the meantime, I would consider trying to bring the PSA down byother means. I'm not sure what they are. I'd be tempted to trypomegranate juice or extract (I take a pom extract capsule everyday), maybe an anti-inflammatory (there's evidence that ibuprofenand aspirin both have a restraining effect on PCa), mayberesveratrol (found in red wine) and I don't know what else.Others here may be more up on the supplements story than I am.The impact of supplements like these is poorly understood. Somethat are shown to work in some studies turn out not to work inothers. There's lots of hope and hype and not a lot of sciencein the supplement story. But some of them at least are cheap andsafe, so I take them.You'll get a little more info in 3 months, and a little more 3months after that. Hopefully you'll see some down numbers in oneor both of those tests.Good luck.Alan

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You know how to make people in cold wet/snowy UK jealous, home grown pomegranites!!!

Re: 16 months post IGRT PSA level

elhorizonte <elhorizontetelefonica (DOT) net> wrote:> Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT> (no hormone TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to> 1.94 two days ago. Not sure what to make of it as I don't see> my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any thoughts as to what to> ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure? Should I> be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?> Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment?> Does it significantly increase survival time?Although it's hard not to be concerned about the new PSA test, Inevertheless agree with everyone else that this is not yetevidence of treatment failure.It is my understanding that radiation can take three or moreyears to destroy the cancer after treatment. I know in my owncase, it took four years after treatment for my PSA to drop below0.1, and it bounced around quite a bit during that period.Even if you believed it was a recurrence, it is probably not agood idea to begin ADT so soon. If I understood Dr. Myers'opinion on this (see the posting about it from a few days ago),unless the PSA is galloping away, you want to spend some time,first to find out what the PSA doubling rate is, and second tosee if you can slow it down or halt it without ADT.Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply buying time? I think theanswer is Yes and Yes. It may not kill every last cancer cell inyour body, but it might buy you so much time that that reallydoesn't matter. How well it does that depends on how aggressiveand how hormone sensitive your cancer is. If the cancer is nothighly aggressive (and you have no evidence yet that it isaggressive), and/or if it's highly hormone sensitive (you have noevidence yet one way or the other about that), it can keep youalive for decades.In the meantime, I would consider trying to bring the PSA down byother means. I'm not sure what they are. I'd be tempted to trypomegranate juice or extract (I take a pom extract capsule everyday), maybe an anti-inflammatory (there's evidence that ibuprofenand aspirin both have a restraining effect on PCa), mayberesveratrol (found in red wine) and I don't know what else.Others here may be more up on the supplements story than I am.The impact of supplements like these is poorly understood. Somethat are shown to work in some studies turn out not to work inothers. There's lots of hope and hype and not a lot of sciencein the supplement story. But some of them at least are cheap andsafe, so I take them.You'll get a little more info in 3 months, and a little more 3months after that. Hopefully you'll see some down numbers in oneor both of those tests.Good luck.Alan

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Hi

I just read your post about your latest PSA result. Gregg and I are in Mexico on

the Mayan Riviera. Got to see Chichenitza yesterday. Spectacular!

I feel your frustration and disappointment over the tiny rise in your PSA. I am

trying to remember what Gregg's PSA was doing at 16 months. I can't remember

specifically, but I do know that his PSA hovered between 1.2 and 1.7 for nearly

a whole year, the second 12 months after treatment. It wasn't until 6 months

ago, or 2 1/2 years after treatment that it finally dropped below one. It was a

long wait for that to finally happen. I know this probally doesn't make you feel

better about your own test results, but my point is, that the drop process can

be very slow, and I have read that slower is better.

Laurel

>

> Thanks Terry, , Randy and everyone else who has answered. While I will

obviuosly bring this up with my Onco (appointment now next Wed), I was hoping to

hear something along the lines of what Terry has just written i.e it is a

statistically insignificant change, if it is a change at all - DOWN would have

been good though! My test was done at the same lab and even by the same

technician as last time but I have just noticed that their scale (and average

range) for testosterone has changed completely from the last set of tests, so

perhaps the PSA testing isn't consistent either. Anyway my own thoughts are to

wait and see what next quarter's tests show, and it is nice to have support for

that view. I'm always very careful to make sure I don't introduce any variables

into the equation so always refrain from sex or any possible prostatic

stimulation for at least 48 if not 72 hours before testing, also stick to same

time in the day.

>

> Thanks again to all, will update on Wednesday afternoon.

>

> Spain

>

> 16 months post IGRT PSA level

>

> Hi Group,

>

> Just got my results back from the lab. I'm 16 months post IGRT (no hormone

> TX). My PSA has risen from 1.74 3 months ago to 1.94 two days ago. Not sure

> what to make of it as I don't see my Onco untill next week. Anyone got any

> thoughts as to what to ask Onco? Is it too early to show treatment failure?

> Should I be considering ADT or wait to see what next quarter test shows?

> Does ADT ever stop PCa or is it simply a time buying treatment? Does it

> significantly increase survival time?

>

> Any advice appreciated,

>

> Malaga, Spain

>

> ------------------------------------

>

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> options.

>

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