Re: Re: Cancer is NOT normal

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> I think that there are quite a few points . I'm a bit

> surprised that more of our members have not caught on. It means

> for starters that Prostate cancer has something to do with what

> is in our environment and is not a genetic disease or a disease

> that is inevitable or men when they reach a certain age. That

> is quite a big point I would think because the implication is

> that the disease can be prevented and if it can be prevented

> then there may also be ways to cure it that do not involve

> destroying ones manhood and rendering one to the status of a

> eunuch. That would be a tremendous improvement.

Bob,

Your questions were addressed to . I can't speak for him

but I would like to discuss some of the issues that you raised.

I agree with you and Sam that the question of whether prostate or

any other cancer will inevitably occur if one lives long enough

is a significant one. Besides the general scientific interest,

as you say, the answer tells us something about where to look for

specific causes. Are they primarily environmental, genetic, or

related to the processes of aging?

I don't think anyone has definitive answers yet. If I had to

bet, I'd bet on a combination of factors. That's what the

experts seem to be saying.

However, I don't really think that this question has been the

determining factor in the direction of past research. I

personally believe that the huge amount of research that has been

directed at hormone therapy went that way because nobody had

enough understanding of the underlying biology to do anything

else. We're still decades away from a full understanding of

cancer. So researchers have concentrated on trying to refine

something that they know is at least partially effective.

We do know that some environmental factors like tobacco smoke and

other carcinogenic chemicals cause some cancers, and we also know

that people who eat high fat diets, are obese, or who don't

exercise also have higher cancer rates.

Those factors aren't being ignored by anyone. Many billions of

dollars have been spent on patient education, toxic waste

cleanup, environmental safety regulation, battles with dirty

industries, and so on, and on associated research.

I think you'd probably agree that we're not facing an either/or

situation. We need research both on those factors related to

genetics and aging that contribute to cancer, and those factors

related to environment and behavior that contribute to cancer.

We'll get there.

> When Huggins and Lebrie found that by castrating a dog that

> it's prostate cancer ''temorarily'' regressed that was very big

> news and opened the world of Pharmaceutical drug companies to

> produce the drugs used today for that purpose. Drugs like

> lupron for example. What most people don't get is that the

> entire theory on Prostate cancer and castration was based on

> that one incident. That one dog.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Surely you don't mean to

say that we all took hormone therapy because somebody once

treated a dog!

Almost all of the treatments for all diseases are first tested in

animals. However they only become approved treatments after they

have proven beneficial in trials on humans.

Hormone therapy has been used extensively in humans and it works!

I have known men with horrible pain whose symptoms were relieved

by hormone therapy. I have known other lucky men whose PSA has

stayed low and they remained symptom free for many years on

hormone therapy, with no apparent progression of the disease.

We know that the hormone therapies we have today are not a cure.

We know that some men get very little benefit from HT. But we

don't yet know everything there is to know about it. It may

prove more effective when combined with other treatments or when

given in new and different forms.

Like everyone else, I'm hoping for better treatments that don't

do as much harm as hormone therapy. But I don't want research on

HT to stop. Some of the latest forms of HT like Abiraterone and

MDV 3100 look to be significant improvements. And what have we

got to put in its place?

If we discovered tomorrow that all PCa could be prevented by not

eating meat, or not eating dairy, or not drinking alcohol, we

could immediately begin a public health campaign centered around

those behaviors. But we would still need treatments for the

people who have or will get PCa and still need HT and other

treatment research.

And incidentally, to the best of my knowledge, the factors I

mentioned above have all been proposed and all been studied.

Again, to the best of my knowledge meat, dairy and alcohol all

have only limited effects on cancer incidence and, as far as I

know, most of the benefit comes from cutting out excessive use of

those things rather than all use of them.

We also do know that some non-smoking, non-drinking, total

vegetarians get PCa and other cancers. There must be other

factors operating too.

....

> The incidence of Prostate cancer and Breast Cancer in Laos is

> almost zero. Yet within one generation , immigrants from that

> country to the U.S. have similar rates of prostate cancer and

> breast cancer as the native white population. African Americans

> have not only the highest incidence of prostate cancer in the

> U.S., they have the highest rates of prostate cancer in the

> world.

I agree with you 100% on that! These facts are of great

importance and need to be investigated! We might prevent

thousands of deaths if we can find specific changes in

environment or behavior that will prevent cancer.

There is a lot more to this topic than either of us has had time

to say in postings to an email list. We could talk about

scientists, drug companies, public health policy, aging, and on

and on. But I'll forgo that and only say a word or two about

what we might look for in this group.

I think all of us have suffered or know people who have suffered

from cancer and/or cancer treatments. We're all in the same

boat. All of us want the same things. All of us are committed

both to helping people who have the disease and working to

prevent others from getting it.

We probably get a little more worked up at each other than we

should. I think I probably get more argumentative than I should.

It's pretty natural to do that since many of us are passionate

about the subject.

One person says something controversial, argumentative, or with

emotional language. Then somebody else responds more sharply

than he should. Pretty soon we have an argument going instead of

a discussion. But let's all stay cool and remember that we are

fighting cancer, not each other.

Alan

[Guest guest]

Sam wrote:

" For your delectation and edification:- "

Sam, you evidently have nothing to keep you occupied. I would respectfully

suggest that you find a homeless shelter and volunteer your time and

intellect to doing some immediate good in a world that is hurting. It will

help take your mind off of things.

" Ten men in our country could buy the whole world and ten million can't buy

enough to eat. " Will

Cancer is NOT normal

>

>

> The point is , " Cancer is NOT normal " .

>

> What do you think ?

>

> Sam.

>

>

> Posted by: " Kennedy " ikennedy2@... frankilona25

> Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:48 pm (PST)

>

>

> So what is your point?

>

>

> " Il faut d'abord durer " Hemingway

>

>

> --

>

> Sam.

>

> For your delectation and edification:-

> http://poetryfromtheprostrateyears.com/

>

--

Sam.

For your delectation and edification:-

http://poetryfromtheprostrateyears.com/

------------------------------------

There are just two rules for this group

1 No Spam

2 Be kind to others

Please recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs

different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some

men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not

choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we cannot

and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at other

options.

Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking reply

Try to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]

et al

I think for the time being we have milked this one as far as it can go. It is what I call a circular discussion with no end

Anyone who has got anything new to say drop me a line on bryan.metcalf@... and I'll post it if is new info not yet discussed

Group owner

Cancer is NOT normalThe point is , " Cancer is NOT normal ".What do you think ?Sam.Posted by: " Kennedy" ikennedy2@... frankilona25Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:48 pm (PST)So what is your point?"Il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway--Sam.For your delectation and edification:-http://poetryfromtheprostrateyears.com/

[Guest guest]

Thank you ,JeffSubject: Re: Re: Cancer is NOT normalTo: ProstateCancerSupport Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010, 4:20 PM

et al

I think for the time being we have milked this one as far as it can go. It is what I call a circular discussion with no end

Anyone who has got anything new to say drop me a line on bryan.metcalf@... and I'll post it if is new info not yet discussed

Group owner

Cancer is NOT normalThe point is , " Cancer is NOT normal ".What do you think ?Sam.Posted by: " Kennedy" ikennedy2@... frankilona25Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:48 pm (PST)So what is your point?"Il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway--Sam.For your delectation and edification:-http://poetryfromtheprostrateyears.com/

[Guest guest]

, in defense of Sam, I do not see what your response has to do with anything that he wrote. Perhaps you might respond to what he wrote rather than talking about homeless shelters and other topics that have nothing to do at all with the questions he posed to the group.

For hundreds of years doctors simply told patients that stomach ulcers (which are the cause of 80 pct of all stomach cancer by the way) are in your head. Why bother finding out the cause, just get the treatments. Like drugs and multiple surgeries and the like until one is dead? Do as you are told and accept what your doctor tells you. Right?

Then an Australian doctor on his summer holiday and with a 25k grant from his government decided that it really was worth proving what caused stomach ulcers in the first place and he immediately began doing the kind of testing that most college students would have done. He biopsied a number of cadavers that had died of stomach cancer and who had stomach ulcers that preceded that cancer. And what do you know? He discovered that they all had this bacteria called Heliobachter Plyori in their tissue. So he swallowed some Helobachter Plyori and guess what? He got a stomach ulcer!! Then he cured it using some very cheap drugs. Some Tetracycline and some Flagyl.

As a result of his work, hundreds of years of medical dogma and misinformation was debunked and a cure for stomach ulcers and the complete prevention of 80 pct of all stomach cancer was found.

Now you know why it pays to pay attention and why it's important to know what causes any illness that you have. Because the current treatments for Prostate cancer are so brutal , disfiguring, and absolutely dangerous to your health, it would behoove us all to take a moment and reflect on what life could be like for all of us if we actually knew what caused Prostate cancer and found a much different way to treat it.

I don't think that homeless shelters have anything at all to do with the discussion . That response does not measure up to the purpose of a support group. The idea that we should just hide our heads in the sand like Ostriches and get in line to be castrated like everyone else is certainly not in the interests of anyone.

Best wishes, BOB> Sam.>> Suppose your hypothesis is correct. Suppose Cancer is not inherent in the> species. What would you suggest I do about it? What do you propose to do> about it?>> I really see no benefit to any of us by debating the origins of the > disease.> It avails nothing.>> >> "Il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway>> Cancer is NOT normal>>> The point is , " Cancer is NOT normal ".>> What do you think ?>> Sam.>>> Posted by: " Kennedy" ikennedy2@... frankilona25>

Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:48 pm (PST)>>> So what is your point?>> > "Il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway>>> -->> Sam.>> For your delectation and edification:-> http://poetryfromtheprostrateyears.com/>-- Sam.For your delectation and edification:-http://poetryfromtheprostrateyears.com/------------------------------------There are just two rules for this group1 No Spam2 Be kind to othersPlease recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not choose. We only ask that

people be informed before choice is made, we cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at other options.Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking replyTry to change the title if the content requires it

[Guest guest]



This discussion is finished!!!!

Cancer is NOT normal>>> The point is , " Cancer is NOT normal ".>> What do you think ?>> Sam.>>> Posted by: " Kennedy" ikennedy2@... frankilona25> Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:48 pm (PST)>>> So what is your point?>> > "Il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway>>> -->> Sam.>> For your delectation and edification:-> http://poetryfromtheprostrateyears.com/>-- Sam.For your delectation and edification:-http://poetryfromtheprostrateyears.com/------------------------------------There are just two rules for this group1 No Spam2 Be kind to othersPlease recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs different levels of treatment and in some cases no treatment at all. Some men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at other options.Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking replyTry to change the title if the content requires it