Re: Re: Spending $93,000 to extend life four months - OFF TOPIC

[Guest guest]

Clowes wrote:

> Sorry, Louis, I just don't agree. Show me a government program

> that works well. Social Security? Meducare? Medicaid? They're

> all hugely in debt. The Energy Department which was set up to

> end our dependence on foreign oil in the Adminstration?

> I'm much more afraid on the government that I am of any private

> company.

> Mike

Mike,

It is amazing how perceptions can differ. Two people looking at

the exact same thing can make completely different observations.

If you asked me to name government programs that work well I

might start with Social Security and Medicare and go on to talk

about public schools, public libraries, fire departments, the

interstate highway system, the forest service, the national

parks, the Coast Guard, the armed forces, NASA, NIH and the

National Cancer Institute, the Centers for Disease Control, the

FBI, and on and on and on.

When Social Security was instituted in the midst of the

depression in 1935 millions of old people were totally destitute

with nothing to live on. Private pensions barely existed then,

and we are returning to that state now as one company after

another eliminates its pension programs.

When Medicare was instituted millions of older people were

uninsured and uninsurable. No insurance company would accept a

man who, for example, was 70 years old and had prostate cancer.

If they had a client like that, many of the insurance companies

would drop him as soon as his one year contract was up, or limit

his lifetime payments for cancer treatment so that he quickly ran

out. A few years ago I tried to find an insurance company to

switch from the one I was with. When I told the salesmen I had

been treated for prostate cancer, some of them told me to forget

it. They would send me an application and let me fill it out but

told me I would be wasting my time.

Today, Social Security and Medicare have dramatically reduced the

problem of elder poverty and lack of medical care in the U.S. It

is a huge difference.

As for the cost, Social Security has run a *SURPLUS* since its

inception. That's going to change because the demographics in

the U.S. have changed, but it's fixable with higher social

security taxes. And it's worth fixing.

It is my understanding that Medicare actually spends *LESS* on

overhead and administration than any of the private insurance

companies. It has financial problems because the cost of care

keeps going up and the population is aging. But the same

pressures affect private industry. I know a PCa survivor in

California whose Blue Cross insurance premium went up more than

30% in one year! I'm guessing that Blue Cross just doesn't want

his business any more and couldn't care less what he can afford

or happens to him. Private insurance companies are not in the

business to supply health insurance. They're in the business to

make money. And if profits can be increased by dropping old and

sick people, adding exclusions, writing ambiguous fine print, and

generally outsmarting their clients (easy to do in such a highly

technical field), they'll do it. If they don't, their

competitors will and they'll be forced out of business by the

competition.

You cite the Energy Department as a failure. You should

understand that, for most of its life, it has been totally

dominated by private energy companies. Some of the Medicare

failures, I'm thinking particularly of the cost of drugs for

Medicare Part D, are entirely due to the lobbying of the private

drug companies that paid millions in campaign contributions to

get the government to make it illegal to negotiate drug prices.

Government agencies have problems. There are things wrong with

every government program. But I think you are fooling yourself

if you imagine that an ordinary person can get any services from

huge private insurance companies without the help of government

regulation to help even the balance of power between insurer and

insuree.

Alan

[Guest guest]

Alan, it's my understanding that Medicare's administration is mostly outsourced to private companies. That will change if the private companies are driven out of the business, as seems to be the goal of Obama Care. Then Medicare will have to do its own administration with federal employees who earn, on average, $5 an hour more than private sector employees doing the same work, not including benefits. Do Social Security and Medicare work? Sure they work in terms of delivering benefits, but at what cost? Anything can be made to "work" if you throw enough money at it and ignore the bills piling up. Have you tried to correct an error with the Social Security Adminsitration? Don't even bother. It's a morass. I could tell you a horror story involving my daughter-in-law.

But, as i said to Louis, this is not the forum to again debate national health and Obama Care.

Mike > Sorry, Louis, I just don't agree. Show me a government program> that works well. Social Security? Meducare? Medicaid? They're> all hugely in debt. The Energy Department which was set up to> end our dependence on foreign oil in the Adminstration?> I'm much more afraid on the government that I am of any private> company. > MikeMike,It is amazing how perceptions can differ. Two people looking atthe exact same thing can make completely different observations.If you asked me to name government programs that work well Imight start with Social Security and Medicare and go on to talkabout public schools, public libraries, fire departments, theinterstate highway

system, the forest service, the nationalparks, the Coast Guard, the armed forces, NASA, NIH and theNational Cancer Institute, the Centers for Disease Control, theFBI, and on and on and on.When Social Security was instituted in the midst of thedepression in 1935 millions of old people were totally destitutewith nothing to live on. Private pensions barely existed then,and we are returning to that state now as one company afteranother eliminates its pension programs.When Medicare was instituted millions of older people wereuninsured and uninsurable. No insurance company would accept aman who, for example, was 70 years old and had prostate cancer.If they had a client like that, many of the insurance companieswould drop him as soon as his one year contract was up, or limithis lifetime payments for cancer treatment so that he quickly ranout. A few years ago I tried to find

an insurance company toswitch from the one I was with. When I told the salesmen I hadbeen treated for prostate cancer, some of them told me to forgetit. They would send me an application and let me fill it out buttold me I would be wasting my time.Today, Social Security and Medicare have dramatically reduced theproblem of elder poverty and lack of medical care in the U.S. Itis a huge difference.As for the cost, Social Security has run a *SURPLUS* since itsinception. That's going to change because the demographics inthe U.S. have changed, but it's fixable with higher socialsecurity taxes. And it's worth fixing.It is my understanding that Medicare actually spends *LESS* onoverhead and administration than any of the private insurancecompanies. It has financial problems because the cost of carekeeps going up and the population is aging. But the

samepressures affect private industry. I know a PCa survivor inCalifornia whose Blue Cross insurance premium went up more than30% in one year! I'm guessing that Blue Cross just doesn't wanthis business any more and couldn't care less what he can affordor happens to him. Private insurance companies are not in thebusiness to supply health insurance. They're in the business tomake money. And if profits can be increased by dropping old andsick people, adding exclusions, writing ambiguous fine print, andgenerally outsmarting their clients (easy to do in such a highlytechnical field), they'll do it. If they don't, theircompetitors will and they'll be forced out of business by thecompetition.You cite the Energy Department as a failure. You shouldunderstand that, for most of its life, it has been totallydominated by private energy companies. Some of

the Medicarefailures, I'm thinking particularly of the cost of drugs forMedicare Part D, are entirely due to the lobbying of the privatedrug companies that paid millions in campaign contributions toget the government to make it illegal to negotiate drug prices.Government agencies have problems. There are things wrong withevery government program. But I think you are fooling yourselfif you imagine that an ordinary person can get any services fromhuge private insurance companies without the help of governmentregulation to help even the balance of power between insurer andinsuree. Alan ------------------------------------There are just two rules for this group 1 No Spam 2 Be kind to othersPlease recognise that Prostate Cancerhas different guises and needs different levels of treatment and in some cases no

treatment at all. Some men even with all options offered chose radical options that you would not choose. We only ask that people be informed before choice is made, we cannot and should not tell other members what to do, other than look at other options. Try to delete old material that is no longer applying when clicking replyTry to change the title if the content requires it