RE: Re: [Circle] Advanced PCa Malecare Group The after-effects of Prostate Cancer Treatment Options

[Guest guest]

In the UK even in 1996 my consultants talked through the issues re Ed, offered me Caverject, later a men's health matron offered other support to both of us

Re: [Circle] Advanced PCa Malecare Group The "after-effects" of Prostate Cancer Treatment OptionsTD,You are definitely not alone in this. Our US TOO group has a presentation at the beginning of the session, then the men and women separate for discussion. And we TALK about everything! It is a good way to share. At first I couldn't imagine why the separate groups, but now I know that some women and some men would never speak out if it were a mixed group. In any case this post is a great place to speak of whatever is happening - or not happening!Wishing you well.Carole Anne

[Guest guest]

Bet more than oncs or well-meaning support leaders, a heart-to-heart with the N.Y. Times writer who wrote the series about his PCa journey (not shying from anything) would be the most valuable. He walked-the-walk and was fearless revealing his demons and insecurities.tdr To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent:

Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:24 AMSubject: Re: Re: [Circle] Advanced PCa Malecare Group The "after-effects" of Prostate Cancer Treatment Options

In the UK even in 1996 my consultants talked through the issues re Ed, offered me Caverject, later a men's health matron offered other support to both of us

Re: [Circle] Advanced PCa Malecare Group The "after-effects" of Prostate Cancer Treatment OptionsTD,You are definitely not alone in this. Our US TOO group has a presentation at the beginning of the session, then the men and women separate for discussion. And we TALK about everything! It is a good way to share. At first I couldn't imagine why the separate groups, but now I know that some women and some men would never speak out if it were a mixed group. In any case this post is a great place to speak of whatever is happening - or not happening!Wishing you well.Carole Anne

[Guest guest]

TD Roebling wrote:

> Oddly, Carole, tried several times in a mens' PCa support group

> to raise troubling emotional issues, thinking we were brothers

> in arms.  Just alotta blank looks.  No interest.  Mechanics

> mechanics mechanics, and more mechanics is all that revved

> their engines. 

> Felt it was pointless and left.

....

That's a very interesting observation.  I'm sure a good

psychologist could have a field day figuring out what was really

going on in the mens' minds.

I think I'm fairly open about sexual issues, but it took me a

while to get that way.

Of course it's not just sex.  When men learn that other men have

cancer, they typically don't say anything about it.  There is a

kind of privacy barrier that people are afraid to cross in either

direction - either to reveal something about themselves or to

hear something about someone else.  Reducing the issues to the

mechanics seems to make it easier to talk about.

There is so much about the whole experience that requires us to

violate the barrier - letting someone stick a finger up your butt

and do a prostate exam, having a urologist feel your penis for

scar tissue, lying on a radiation table with your pants down

while a woman lines up laser beams, walking down a hall in an

open back hospital gown, having a nurse insert or pull out a

catheter, answering questions about sex.

One way to respond is to be embarrassed or even mortified each

time and cringe inwardly until the experience is over and you can

try to put it out of your mind and not think about it.

Another way is to say to yourself, this is life, just do it and

don't get worked up about it.  It's not a big deal.

Getting from the first place to the second is hard for many men.

Many just can't get there.

But that's really the easy part.

Re-evaluating our sex lives and our relationships with our wives

is ten times harder.  The emotional barriers are very steep for

most men.

Establishing intimacy in a marriage is hard enough.  A lot of

husbands and wives are not successful at it.  There are a

shocking number of sexless or near sexless marriages and

marriages in which the sex takes place quickly, in the dark, in a

ritualized fashion that was established years before and never

varied.

When it's been like that for 40 years, how do you go about

changing it?  When a man hasn't been able to talk to his own wife

about sex, his sexual partner for the last 40 years, how can he

discuss the changes that he's been through and his new needs and

abilities?

It's a tough problem and it's very sad for the couples who

suffer with it.

    Alan

[Guest guest]

Very insightful, Alan. Learning, even at 72, the intimate implications of advanced PCa, knocked me for a loop. Five years later, the shock hasn't lessened. tdrTo: "ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport >Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 6:59 PMSubject: Re: Re: [Circle] Advanced PCa Malecare Group The "after-effects" of Prostate Cancer Treatment Options

TD Roebling wrote:

> Oddly, Carole, tried several times in a mens' PCa support group

> to raise troubling emotional issues, thinking we were brothers

> in arms. Just alotta blank looks. No interest. Mechanics

> mechanics mechanics, and more mechanics is all that revved

> their engines.

> Felt it was pointless and left.

....

That's a very interesting observation. I'm sure a good

psychologist could have a field day figuring out what was really

going on in the mens' minds.

I think I'm fairly open about sexual issues, but it took me a

while to get that way.

Of course it's not just sex. When men learn that other men have

cancer, they typically don't say anything about it. There is a

kind of privacy barrier that people are afraid to cross in either

direction - either to reveal something about themselves or to

hear something about someone else. Reducing the issues to the

mechanics seems to make it easier to talk about.

There is so much about the whole experience that requires us to

violate the barrier - letting someone stick a finger up your butt

and do a prostate exam, having a urologist feel your penis for

scar tissue, lying on a radiation table with your pants down

while a woman lines up laser beams, walking down a hall in an

open back hospital gown, having a nurse insert or pull out a

catheter, answering questions about sex.

One way to respond is to be embarrassed or even mortified each

time and cringe inwardly until the experience is over and you can

try to put it out of your mind and not think about it.

Another way is to say to yourself, this is life, just do it and

don't get worked up about it. It's not a big deal.

Getting from the first place to the second is hard for many men.

Many just can't get there.

But that's really the easy part.

Re-evaluating our sex lives and our relationships with our wives

is ten times harder. The emotional barriers are very steep for

most men.

Establishing intimacy in a marriage is hard enough. A lot of

husbands and wives are not successful at it. There are a

shocking number of sexless or near sexless marriages and

marriages in which the sex takes place quickly, in the dark, in a

ritualized fashion that was established years before and never

varied.

When it's been like that for 40 years, how do you go about

changing it? When a man hasn't been able to talk to his own wife

about sex, his sexual partner for the last 40 years, how can he

discuss the changes that he's been through and his new needs and

abilities?

It's a tough problem and it's very sad for the couples who

suffer with it.

Alan

[Guest guest]

TDR

I suppose it is not just a matter of mechanics. Ladies notice things like glances, the hugs, the kisses.

This is knocked out of men by hormone manipulation and it is necessary that we work at that.

Just now and then recently we have had talks from urology specialist nurses that encompass the remember to hug your wife message.

Re: [Circle] Advanced PCa Malecare Group The "after-effects" of Prostate Cancer Treatment Options

I am sorry to hear it. I hope you stepped right in and said what you wanted to say right out loud. Sometimes it takes just that to break the ice. Hang in there and KEEP TALKING. It may do a world of good for all of you!

Carole Anne

Carole,

We had a separate PCa mens group like that at a support group. To my astonishment, even these men wrestling with emotional pain, danced around it.

tdr

[Guest guest]

Thanks Alan, You nailed my

situation, the only thing left out is how far apart I have grown apart from my

wife during these past 3 years of non performance. I get jealous when I

here about the men working with their understanding wifes. I go off

hormones in a couple of months and the doctors are offering an implant and I am

not sure what I want or what is going to happen because of the situation

between my wife and I.

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Alan Meyer

Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:59

PM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

Re: [Circle] Advanced PCa Malecare Group The

" after-effects " of Prostate Cancer Treatment Options

TD

Roebling

wrote:

> Oddly, Carole, tried several times in a mens' PCa support group

> to raise troubling emotional issues, thinking we were brothers

> in arms. Just alotta blank looks. No interest. Mechanics

> mechanics mechanics, and more mechanics is all that revved

> their engines.

> Felt it was pointless and left.

....

That's a very interesting observation. I'm sure a good

psychologist could have a field day figuring out what was really

going on in the mens' minds.

I think I'm fairly open about sexual issues, but it took me a

while to get that way.

Of course it's not just sex. When men learn that other men have

cancer, they typically don't say anything about it. There is a

kind of privacy barrier that people are afraid to cross in either

direction - either to reveal something about themselves or to

hear something about someone else. Reducing the issues to the

mechanics seems to make it easier to talk about.

There is so much about the whole experience that requires us to

violate the barrier - letting someone stick a finger up your butt

and do a prostate exam, having a urologist feel your penis for

scar tissue, lying on a radiation table with your pants down

while a woman lines up laser beams, walking down a hall in an

open back hospital gown, having a nurse insert or pull out a

catheter, answering questions about sex.

One way to respond is to be embarrassed or even mortified each

time and cringe inwardly until the experience is over and you can

try to put it out of your mind and not think about it.

Another way is to say to yourself, this is life, just do it and

don't get worked up about it. It's not a big deal.

Getting from the first place to the second is hard for many men.

Many just can't get there.

But that's really the easy part.

Re-evaluating our sex lives and our relationships with our wives

is ten times harder. The emotional barriers are very steep for

most men.

Establishing intimacy in a marriage is hard enough. A lot of

husbands and wives are not successful at it. There are a

shocking number of sexless or near sexless marriages and

marriages in which the sex takes place quickly, in the dark, in a

ritualized fashion that was established years before and never

varied.

When it's been like that for 40 years, how do you go about

changing it? When a man hasn't been able to talk to his own wife

about sex, his sexual partner for the last 40 years, how can he

discuss the changes that he's been through and his new needs and

abilities?

It's a tough problem and it's very sad for the couples who

suffer with it.

Alan