Predictors of HT success/failure

[Guest guest]

Consider a patient (moi) who has failed surgery within a year and failed SRT

quickly, with a fast PSADT of say 3 months.

HT is going to start soon.

Does the aforementioned grim data suggest that HT will fail quickly also.

Someone on a different support group says his doctor suggested this.

I might add that I asked Dr. Hussain said the issue of HT response is much more

complicated than the PSADT and speed of BCR. It pertains to the percentage of

hormone sensitive PC cells compared to the non-sensitive cells but also pertains

to the ability of the cells to work around the HT. She implied that we don't

know those answers from the other data. We don't know until we try the HT.

Any thoughts or maybe even your personal experience pertaining to this question?

Mel

[Guest guest]

Both surgery and radiation therapy failed to bring my PSA down but ADT did the trick very quickly.Bob From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of billikmSent: 25 January 2012 15:40To: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: Predictors of HT success/failure Consider a patient (moi) who has failed surgery within a year and failed SRT quickly, with a fast PSADT of say 3 months.HT is going to start soon.Does the aforementioned grim data suggest that HT will fail quickly also. Someone on a different support group says his doctor suggested this.I might add that I asked Dr. Hussain said the issue of HT response is much more complicated than the PSADT and speed of BCR. It pertains to the percentage of hormone sensitive PC cells compared to the non-sensitive cells but also pertains to the ability of the cells to work around the HT. She implied that we don't know those answers from the other data. We don't know until we try the HT.Any thoughts or maybe even your personal experience pertaining to this question?Mel

[Guest guest]

Whenever I read about prognostications of any kind regarding ADT (Androgen Deprivation Therapy) or HT I am put in mind of the stories on the Yana site which demonstrate the variability and the impossibiity of making any accurate predictions and especially the story of Doug at http://www.yananow.org/Mentors/DougA.htm - one of the many men who DID not have the inevitable fatal failure of ADT

All the best

Terry Herbert

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of billikmSent: Thursday, 26 January 2012 2:40 AMTo: ProstateCancerSupport Subject: Predictors of HT success/failure

Consider a patient (moi) who has failed surgery within a year and failed SRT quickly, with a fast PSADT of say 3 months.HT is going to start soon.Does the aforementioned grim data suggest that HT will fail quickly also. Someone on a different support group says his doctor suggested this.I might add that I asked Dr. Hussain said the issue of HT response is much more complicated than the PSADT and speed of BCR. It pertains to the percentage of hormone sensitive PC cells compared to the non-sensitive cells but also pertains to the ability of the cells to work around the HT. She implied that we don't know those answers from the other data. We don't know until we try the HT.Any thoughts or maybe even your personal experience pertaining to this question?Mel

[Guest guest]

> Consider a patient (moi) who has

> failed surgery within a year and failed SRT quickly, with a

> fast PSADT of say 3 months.

>

> HT is going to start soon.

>

> Does the aforementioned grim data suggest that HT will fail

> quickly also. ...

Mel,

If you haven't been there yet, I recommend looking at Terry

Herbert's website: http://www.yananow.org. The specific page

that he recommended looks like a good one for your question, but

I bet there are others too.

Also, I suggest checking the story of " MikeHi " who also posted as

" Hifu Mike " on alt.support.cancer.prostate. If I remember

correctly, he had a rapid doubling time after his failed HIFU

procedure but had a spectacular response to ADT. You can check

Google for old postings in the newsgroup.

In principle and on average, it makes sense to me that a rapidly

growing cancer is more dangerous no matter what treatment is

used. However it also seems likely to me that rate of growth and

hormone dependency are independent variables. It's possible that

almost all of the tumor cells, or all of the rapidly dividing

cells, are highly hormone dependent. If so, then suppressing

them with ADT might be as or more effective for you than for a

man with a slower growing cancer.

You won't know until you try it. If it were me, I'd want to

start ADT as soon as possible - if you haven't already started

it. You've already gotten some information about doubling time

and already seen that your cancer could become serious in just a

few years without treatment.

I'm sure you've already considered this but, if not, it's worth

discussing chemotherapy with your oncologist. There seem to be

quite a few trials underway combining ADT and chemo for early

stage recurrent PCa. The reason I suggest it is that

chemotherapy agents interfere with cell division. That's why

they kill cancer and why they also cause side effects in other

rapidly dividing cells in the body such as hair follicles and the

lining of the stomach. Presumably, it's also why chemo is less

effective with PCa than more aggressive cancers. Many prostate

tumor cells are not dividing very often and so survive the chemo.

However if you have a rapidly growing cancer, maybe it's more

sensitive to chemo than most PCa cases.

Fortunately for most purposes, but unfortunately for cancer

patients, our cells have methods of expelling toxic agents. Some

cells are better at it than others. So in a manner analogous to

ADT resistance, it appears that chemo kills the cells that are

not good at expelling toxins but if the cancer isn't entirely

killed, the ones that are good at expelling the chemicals

eventually become the predominant population and the chemo stops

working. But some doctors are now arguing that if you hit the

cancer with both chemo and ADT at the same time, before

resistance to either drugs has developed, you can get very long

remission times or even, dare we say it, cures.

Best of luck.

Alan