Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

Chuck Maack has given you some very good

advice. If you are interested in the experiences of some 300 men diagnosed with

Gleason Score 7 disease – their treatment choices and their outcome, go

along to www.yananow.org/query_stories.php

and choose the appropriate search criteria – there are more than 1,100

stories of surviviors there and they make for useful and interesting reading.

All the best

Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening

Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong

Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.org/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Charlie De

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 3:08

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

This is all

new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor ordered a PSA test.

It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal. I was refered to a

urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples came back positive

with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative. I have an

appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

If anyone

shares their experiences or opinions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Terry,What the prognosis for GL8 4+4?tdr To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:57 PM Subject: RE: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Chuck, Chuck Maack has given you some very good

advice. If you are interested in the experiences of some 300 men diagnosed with

Gleason Score 7 disease – their treatment choices and their outcome, go

along to www.yananow.org/query_stories.php

and choose the appropriate search criteria – there are more than 1,100

stories of surviviors there and they make for useful and interesting reading.

All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto: ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Charlie De

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 3:08

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

This is all

new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor ordered a PSA test.

It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal. I was refered to a

urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples came back positive

with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative. I have an

appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

If anyone

shares their experiences or opinions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

tdr, Terry or Chuck may well provide answers, but one place to look is the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center's website. There you will find a prediction tool (called a nomogram) into which you put the results of your biopsy etc. You will find it at http://www.mskcc.org/searcch/site/nomogram. That will give you the probable outcomes for various treatments given your stats. Mike To: "ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Terry,What the prognosis for GL8 4+4?tdr To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:57 PM

Subject: RE: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Chuck, Chuck Maack has given you some very good

advice. If you are interested in the experiences of some 300 men diagnosed with

Gleason Score 7 disease – their treatment choices and their outcome, go

along to www.yananow.org/query_stories.php

and choose the appropriate search criteria – there are more than 1,100

stories of surviviors there and they make for useful and interesting reading.

All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto: ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Charlie De

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 3:08

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

This is all

new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor ordered a PSA test.

It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal. I was refered to a

urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples came back positive

with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative. I have an

appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

If anyone

shares their experiences or opinions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thanks for getting back so quick, Mike. Now I have trepidation of what I might learn.Will kill time adding to my bucket list.tdr To: "ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

tdr, Terry or Chuck may well provide answers, but one place to look is the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center's website. There you will find a prediction tool (called a nomogram) into which you put the results of your biopsy etc. You will find it at http://www.mskcc.org/searcch/site/nomogram. That will give you the probable outcomes for various treatments given your stats. Mike From: TD

Roebling To: "ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Terry,What the prognosis for GL8 4+4?tdr To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:57 PM

Subject: RE: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Chuck, Chuck Maack has given you some very good

advice. If you are interested in the experiences of some 300 men diagnosed with

Gleason Score 7 disease – their treatment choices and their outcome, go

along to www.yananow.org/query_stories.php

and choose the appropriate search criteria – there are more than 1,100

stories of surviviors there and they make for useful and interesting reading.

All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto: ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Charlie De

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 3:08

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

This is all

new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor ordered a PSA test.

It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal. I was refered to a

urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples came back positive

with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative. I have an

appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

If anyone

shares their experiences or opinions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

tdr. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers. It is scary, but as you will learn, it's not an immediate death sentence. PCA can be kept under control for a long time with modern treatments. BTW, I'm sure Chuck Maack and others sould suggest sending your biopsy results to another lab to check that the Gleason 8 is correct, if you haven't already done so. Chuck can give you the name of a great lab. Also, if you haven't already done so, check out the website of the Prostate Cancer Research Institute -- lots of great info on PCA and treatments there. Mike To: "ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:51 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Thanks for getting back so quick, Mike. Now I have trepidation of what I might learn.Will kill time adding to my bucket list.tdr To:

"ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

tdr, Terry or Chuck may well provide answers, but one place to look is the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center's website. There you will find a prediction tool (called a nomogram) into which you put the results of your biopsy etc. You will find it at http://www.mskcc.org/searcch/site/nomogram. That will give you the probable outcomes for various treatments given your stats. Mike From: TD

Roebling To: "ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Terry,What the prognosis for GL8 4+4?tdr To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:57 PM

Subject: RE: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Chuck, Chuck Maack has given you some very good

advice. If you are interested in the experiences of some 300 men diagnosed with

Gleason Score 7 disease – their treatment choices and their outcome, go

along to www.yananow.org/query_stories.php

and choose the appropriate search criteria – there are more than 1,100

stories of surviviors there and they make for useful and interesting reading.

All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto: ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Charlie De

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 3:08

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

This is all

new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor ordered a PSA test.

It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal. I was refered to a

urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples came back positive

with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative. I have an

appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

If anyone

shares their experiences or opinions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

tdr you ask <snip> What the

prognosis for GL8 4+4?<snip>

I can’t make any calculations for

you using the MSK Prediction Tools (which I found at http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/prediction-tools

) because I don’t have the data. But one of the reasons I suggest that

people read the stories of survivors is because although studies can make

predictions or estimates of outcomes at a statistical level, the actual experiences

of men can be very different. It may be of passing interest for you to know

that there are about 80 men with a GS 8 (4+4) diagnosis who have shared their

stories on the site. There are one or two who were, like me, diagnosed last

century and others who were diagnosed ten years and more ago, as well as the

more recent cases. Reading their stories gives you an excellent indication of

how the technical prognosis might relate to their reality.

It may also be worthwhile scanning the

stories of men with even more aggressive disease – with GS 9 and GS 10

diagnoses and those with PSA numbers in the thousands. There are several

astonishing stories which defy all predictive nomograms.

Running the Yana site as I have for so

many years and reading literally thousands of detailed stories, the only firm conclusion

I can come to is, as our dear departed friend Aubrey Pilgrim used to say to

newcomers: The Golden Rule of Prostate Cancer is: THERE ARE NO RULES.” For

this reason we should never be too hung up on statistical studies. Of course

there is a place for them and of course we shuld not ignore them – they are

important general pointers. BUT…..there are always exceptions to the

broad statistical predictions and I believe that learning from other men what

they have done successfully can alter the course of the disease significantly.

All the best

Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening

Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong

Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.org/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of

Clowes

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 11:38

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

tdr,

Terry or Chuck may well provide answers, but one place to look is the Sloan Kettering

Cancer Center's

website. There you will find a prediction tool (called a nomogram) into which

you put the results of your biopsy etc. You will find it at http://www.mskcc.org/searcch/site/nomogram.

That will give you the probable outcomes for various treatments given your

stats.

Mike

From: TD Roebling

To: " ProstateCancerSupport "

<ProstateCancerSupport >

Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:21 PM

Subject: Re:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Terry,

What the

prognosis for GL8 4+4?

tdr

From: Terry Herbert

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:57 PM

Subject: RE:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Chuck,

Chuck Maack has given you

some very good advice. If you are interested in the experiences of some 300 men

diagnosed with Gleason Score 7 disease – their treatment choices and

their outcome, go along to www.yananow.org/query_stories.php and choose the

appropriate search criteria – there are more than 1,100 stories of

surviviors there and they make for useful and interesting reading.

All the best

Prostate men need

enlightening, not frightening

Terry Herbert - diagnosed

in 1996 and still going strong

Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at

http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto: ProstateCancerSupport

] On Behalf Of Charlie De

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 3:08

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

This is all

new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor ordered a PSA test.

It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal. I was refered to a

urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples came back positive

with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative. I have an

appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

If anyone

shares their experiences or opinions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Thanks a million, Mike. Been battling the beast since '07. Never aggressively sought when and what the end-game might be, for fear of the truth.Will definitely read the Yananow entries.tdr To: "ProstateCancerSupport "

<ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 7:25 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

tdr. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers. It is scary, but as you will learn, it's not an immediate death sentence. PCA can be kept under control for a long time with modern treatments. BTW, I'm sure Chuck Maack and others sould suggest sending your biopsy results to another lab to check that the Gleason 8 is correct, if you haven't already done so. Chuck can give you the name of a great lab. Also, if you haven't already done so, check out the website of the Prostate Cancer Research Institute -- lots of great info on PCA and treatments there.

Mike To: "ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:51 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Thanks for getting back so quick, Mike. Now I have trepidation of what I might learn.Will kill time adding to my bucket list.tdr To:

"ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

tdr, Terry or Chuck may well provide answers, but one place to look is the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center's website. There you will find a prediction tool (called a nomogram) into which you put the results of your biopsy etc. You will find it at http://www.mskcc.org/searcch/site/nomogram. That will give you the probable outcomes for various treatments given your stats. Mike From: TD

Roebling To: "ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Terry,What the prognosis for GL8 4+4?tdr To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:57 PM

Subject: RE: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Chuck, Chuck Maack has given you some very good

advice. If you are interested in the experiences of some 300 men diagnosed with

Gleason Score 7 disease – their treatment choices and their outcome, go

along to www.yananow.org/query_stories.php

and choose the appropriate search criteria – there are more than 1,100

stories of surviviors there and they make for useful and interesting reading.

All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto: ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Charlie De

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 3:08

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

This is all

new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor ordered a PSA test.

It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal. I was refered to a

urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples came back positive

with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative. I have an

appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

If anyone

shares their experiences or opinions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

The prognosis for your GS can be real good. Three years ago by biopsy came back with a GS of 9 (5 + 4). Today my PSA is still in the undetectable range. Keep your head on correctly and pay attention to what is going on with your treatment and you will have a good chance of being ok. Sent from my iPhone

Terry,What the prognosis for GL8 4+4?tdr To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:57 PM Subject: RE: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Chuck, Chuck Maack has given you some very good

advice. If you are interested in the experiences of some 300 men diagnosed with

Gleason Score 7 disease – their treatment choices and their outcome, go

along to www.yananow.org/query_stories.php

and choose the appropriate search criteria – there are more than 1,100

stories of surviviors there and they make for useful and interesting reading.

All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto: ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Charlie De

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 3:08

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

This is all

new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor ordered a PSA test.

It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal. I was refered to a

urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples came back positive

with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative. I have an

appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

If anyone

shares their experiences or opinions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Lhelper,Just the boost I need before breakfast.tdr To: "ProstateCancerSupport " <ProstateCancerSupport > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 6:34 AM Subject: Re:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

The prognosis for your GS can be real good. Three years ago by biopsy came back with a GS of 9 (5 + 4). Today my PSA is still in the undetectable range. Keep your head on correctly and pay attention to what is going on with your treatment and you will have a good chance of being ok. Sent from my iPhone

Terry,What the prognosis for GL8 4+4?tdr To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 5:57 PM Subject: RE: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Chuck, Chuck Maack has given you some very good

advice. If you are interested in the experiences of some 300 men diagnosed with

Gleason Score 7 disease – their treatment choices and their outcome, go

along to www.yananow.org/query_stories.php

and choose the appropriate search criteria – there are more than 1,100

stories of surviviors there and they make for useful and interesting reading.

All the best Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.net/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport [mailto: ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Charlie De

Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2012 3:08

AM

To: ProstateCancerSupport

Subject:

Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

This is all

new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor ordered a PSA test.

It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal. I was refered to a

urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples came back positive

with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative. I have an

appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

If anyone

shares their experiences or opinions, it will be greatly appreciated.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> This is all new to me. I need advice. During my yearly exam, the doctor

ordered a PSA test. It came back at 3.96. The digital rectum examine was normal.

I was refered to a urologist. He did a prostate biopsy. One of the 12 samples

came back positive with a Gleason score of 7. A bone scan was negative.  I have

an appointment with the doctor next week to discuss treatment options. I have

heard that different types of doctors offer different treatment choices.

>

> If anyone shares their experiences or opinions, it will be

greatly appreciated.

>

> Chuck

>

I think you also need to think about your age when deciding on treatment. Your

cancer is at an early stage and might be better watched for a couple years. (I'm

not making any recommendations here!) Any treatment does have after effects that

you might not want. I was in your exact position at age 56 and had surgery to

remove my prostate. After seeing my dad die of this cancer I wanted it out. But

I certainly do have regrets even with a very good recovery and outcome. Also

the actual grading 4+3 or 3+4 is pretty important too. One is more aggressive

that the other.

[Guest guest]

Charlie,You appear to be barely in the range to even be considered a cancer. I had a slowly increasing PSA until my yearly physical where it tipped over 4 (4.2). I was negative on the DRE by my doc and had no symptoms. The I was 53. My biopsy was positive on  one side about 1/3 cores positive. Recommendation was radical using DaVinci. I chose radical non-DaVinci. When the prostate was checked after the biopsy slightly under-rated the cancer. Still I would in retrospect take the advice others have given and get the samples checked by the short list of really practiced biopsy tissue readers.

One key thing on any treatment is that good results are only achieved by highly practiced doctors. 200 or more DaVinci or radical surgeries are required for proficiency. (I feel for the 200 that the doctors practiced on). No matter what you will not return to normal. After treatment you will have difficulty getting an erection, with surgery your penis will be shortened by 1 1/2 to 2 inches (the length of the prostate), and you will never ejaculate again. Some have problems with incontinence. Best case is occasional drip slips (when your exert, cough, fart etc.).

There are various radiation treatments.Those involving a beam take a few months of daily treatments (weekends off). Seed implantation is much quicker. Generally the long term results are the same although with radiation you start out with pretty normal erections that deteriorate over time to the same condition as surgery after a few years.  This treatment retains the penile length but there are chances of burning of the urethra (tube from bladder that carries the urine). My doctors tended to feel radiation was for the older patients. Some of that could be natural tendency to favor their specialty. I did speak to a radiologist in the same group as my urologist and GP. He did not push radiology. Most of the advanced radiology solutions in the area I am (Chicago Suburbs) are centralized in one center. That justifies the cost of the equipment and has the added benefit of having doctors highly skilled in that procedure.

I read a lot of the stories as suggested. Some tend to get depressing especially those who refuse treatment and probably should not have. I am not sure reading those stories provided any greater clarity on what to do.

Watchful waiting may be best for you, accompanied by aggressive diet change. If you are older or have other conditions doing nothing will probably work (you will succumb to something else before the cancer will get you). If you are younger you need to balance the fact that you will live the last 1/3 of your life with cranky partially functioning plumbing against the chance of early demise.

Good luck on your choice of treatments and your results,Steve

[Guest guest]

Steve, Thanks for the information. I am 62 year old. I was negative on the DRE. My doctor ordered the PSA as part of the yearly exam. I took propecia from 2000 to 2010 for hair loss. It worked great. My father, uncles, and brothers are all bald and I had a full head of hair! Stopped in 2010 because my erections did last as long as needed. Two months after I stopped the propecia, eveything was normal. Decided it was better to loss my hair than my erection! This is the first time I hear about lossing up to 2 inches of penis length. That is moving in the wrong direction. Will ask the doctor about it. I also stopped the propecia because a large study

showed it greatly increased the risk of developing high grade prostate cancers. The maker of Propecia said the problem was the drug makes regular tumors look like high grade tumors. I have no idea if this is true or even if it makes any sense. I just wonder if my Gleason 7 is really a 5 or 6. My research agrees with your recomendation of finding a doctor who has done a lot of the robotic procedures. Most doctor's offices will not give that information out over the phone so it is difficault to find an experienced surgeron. Thanks for the reply and the information. You have helped me and I am sure you have helped others. Good luck. Chuck To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Charlie,You appear to be barely in the range to even be considered a cancer. I had a slowly increasing PSA until my yearly physical where it tipped over 4 (4.2). I was negative on the DRE by my doc and had no symptoms. The I was 53. My biopsy was positive on one side about 1/3 cores positive. Recommendation was radical using DaVinci. I chose radical non-DaVinci. When the prostate was checked after the biopsy slightly under-rated the cancer. Still I would in retrospect take the advice others have given and get the samples checked by the short list of really practiced biopsy tissue readers.

One key thing on any treatment is that good results are only achieved by highly practiced doctors. 200 or more DaVinci or radical surgeries are required for proficiency. (I feel for the 200 that the doctors practiced on). No matter what you will not return to normal. After treatment you will have difficulty getting an erection, with surgery your penis will be shortened by 1 1/2 to 2 inches (the length of the prostate), and you will never ejaculate again. Some have problems with incontinence. Best case is occasional drip slips (when your exert, cough, fart etc.).

There are various radiation treatments.Those involving a beam take a few months of daily treatments (weekends off). Seed implantation is much quicker. Generally the long term results are the same although with radiation you start out with pretty normal erections that deteriorate over time to the same condition as surgery after a few years. This treatment retains the penile length but there are chances of burning of the urethra (tube from bladder that carries the urine). My doctors tended to feel radiation was for the older patients. Some of that could be natural tendency to favor their specialty. I did speak to a radiologist in the same group as my urologist and GP. He did not push radiology. Most of the advanced radiology solutions in the area I am (Chicago Suburbs) are centralized in one center. That justifies the cost of the equipment and has the added benefit of having doctors highly skilled in that procedure.

I read a lot of the stories as suggested. Some tend to get depressing especially those who refuse treatment and probably should not have. I am not sure reading those stories provided any greater clarity on what to do.

Watchful waiting may be best for you, accompanied by aggressive diet change. If you are older or have other conditions doing nothing will probably work (you will succumb to something else before the cancer will get you). If you are younger you need to balance the fact that you will live the last 1/3 of your life with cranky partially functioning plumbing against the chance of early demise.

Good luck on your choice of treatments and your results,Steve

[Guest guest]

McCartney,

With a good outcome, why do you have regrets?

Doug

AI think you also need to think about your age when deciding on

treatment. Your cancer is at an early stage and might be better watched

for a couple years. (I'm not making any recommendations here!) Any

treatment does have after effects that you might not want. I was in your

exact position at age 56 and had surgery to remove my prostate. After

seeing my dad die of this cancer I wanted it out. But I certainly do

have regrets even with a very good recovery and outcome. Also the actual

grading 4+3 or 3+4 is pretty important too. One is more aggressive that

the other.

[Guest guest]



Chuck.

It seems strange that you stopped Propecia because it was said it causes Prostate cancer and I started taking it last year to treat my PCa. Propecia (Proscar, Finasteride) is commonly used as a component of multi hormone blockade (ADTx) and since I added it my PSA has dropped to <0.10. Use of Proscar and Avodart (5ARI s) for treating rising PSA, after initial treatment, has produced impressive results in many patients. But like Honda says about it's fuel mileage, "Your mileage may vary." Which is true for almost everything Prostate.

"Il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway

Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Charlie,You appear to be barely in the range to even be considered a cancer. I had a slowly increasing PSA until my yearly physical where it tipped over 4 (4.2). I was negative on the DRE by my doc and had no symptoms. The I was 53. My biopsy was positive on one side about 1/3 cores positive. Recommendation was radical using DaVinci. I chose radical non-DaVinci. When the prostate was checked after the biopsy slightly under-rated the cancer. Still I would in retrospect take the advice others have given and get the samples checked by the short list of really practiced biopsy tissue readers. One key thing on any treatment is that good results are only achieved by highly practiced doctors. 200 or more DaVinci or radical surgeries are required for proficiency. (I feel for the 200 that the doctors practiced on). No matter what you will not return to normal. After treatment you will have difficulty getting an erection, with surgery your penis will be shortened by 1 1/2 to 2 inches (the length of the prostate), and you will never ejaculate again. Some have problems with incontinence. Best case is occasional drip slips (when your exert, cough, fart etc.). There are various radiation treatments.Those involving a beam take a few months of daily treatments (weekends off). Seed implantation is much quicker. Generally the long term results are the same although with radiation you start out with pretty normal erections that deteriorate over time to the same condition as surgery after a few years. This treatment retains the penile length but there are chances of burning of the urethra (tube from bladder that carries the urine). My doctors tended to feel radiation was for the older patients. Some of that could be natural tendency to favor their specialty. I did speak to a radiologist in the same group as my urologist and GP. He did not push radiology. Most of the advanced radiology solutions in the area I am (Chicago Suburbs) are centralized in one center. That justifies the cost of the equipment and has the added benefit of having doctors highly skilled in that procedure. I read a lot of the stories as suggested. Some tend to get depressing especially those who refuse treatment and probably should not have. I am not sure reading those stories provided any greater clarity on what to do.Watchful waiting may be best for you, accompanied by aggressive diet change. If you are older or have other conditions doing nothing will probably work (you will succumb to something else before the cancer will get you). If you are younger you need to balance the fact that you will live the last 1/3 of your life with cranky partially functioning plumbing against the chance of early demise.Good luck on your choice of treatments and your results,Steve

[Guest guest]

Just google "propecia increased risk of prostate cancer". My doctor didn't want to write the refill because of a study in some medical journal said it may increase the risk of agressive cancers. I did get the refill and continued to use it until the erection problem. At that point, I had two reasons not to take it and only one to continue. Like most medical issues there are studies that show it causes cancer and studies that show it reduces cancer. I spent 6 years in college studying engineering and worked for 35 years as an engineer. Engineering is all about science, precision, risk analysis and control. I consider medicine to be about none of these. To me it is all about making money. They have a protocol for eveything

and a cookie cutter approach were one size fits all. I guess you could say, I don't care much for most doctors. To: ProstateCancerSupport Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options



Chuck.

It seems strange that you stopped Propecia because it was said it causes Prostate cancer and I started taking it last year to treat my PCa. Propecia (Proscar, Finasteride) is commonly used as a component of multi hormone blockade (ADTx) and since I added it my PSA has dropped to <0.10. Use of Proscar and Avodart (5ARI s) for treating rising PSA, after initial treatment, has produced impressive results in many patients. But like Honda says about it's fuel mileage, "Your mileage may vary." Which is true for almost everything Prostate.

"Il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway

Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Charlie,You appear to be barely in the range to even be considered a cancer. I had a slowly increasing PSA until my yearly physical where it tipped over 4 (4.2). I was negative on the DRE by my doc and had no symptoms. The I was 53. My biopsy was positive on one side about 1/3 cores positive. Recommendation was radical using DaVinci. I chose radical non-DaVinci. When the prostate was checked after the biopsy slightly under-rated the cancer. Still I would in retrospect take the advice others have given and get the samples checked by the short list of really practiced biopsy tissue readers. One key thing on any treatment is that good results are only achieved by highly practiced doctors. 200 or more DaVinci or radical surgeries are required for proficiency. (I feel for the 200 that the doctors practiced on). No matter what you will not return to normal. After treatment you will have difficulty getting an erection, with surgery your penis will be shortened by 1 1/2 to 2 inches (the length of the prostate), and you will never ejaculate again. Some have problems with incontinence. Best case is occasional drip slips (when your exert, cough, fart etc.). There are various radiation treatments.Those involving a beam take a few months of daily treatments (weekends off). Seed implantation is much quicker. Generally the long term results are the same although with radiation you start out with pretty normal erections that deteriorate over time to the same condition as surgery after a few years. This treatment retains the penile length but there are chances of burning of the urethra (tube from bladder that carries the urine). My doctors tended to feel radiation was for the older patients. Some of that could be natural tendency to favor their specialty. I did speak to a radiologist in the same group as my urologist and GP. He did not push radiology. Most of the advanced radiology solutions in the area I am (Chicago Suburbs) are centralized in one center. That justifies the cost of the equipment and has the added benefit of having doctors highly skilled in that procedure. I read a lot of the stories as suggested. Some tend to get depressing especially those who refuse treatment and probably should not have. I am not sure reading those stories provided any greater clarity on what to do.Watchful waiting may be best for you, accompanied by aggressive diet change. If you are older or have other conditions doing nothing will probably work (you will succumb to something else before the cancer will get you). If you are younger you need to balance the fact that you will live the last 1/3 of your life with cranky partially functioning plumbing against the chance of early demise.Good luck on your choice of treatments and your results,Steve

[Guest guest]



Chuck

I turned wrenches for years but I will never forgot the mechanics creed. "Turn it clockwise and it gets tighter, turn it counter clockwise and it gets looser except if it's a lug nut on a Chrysler product." <grin>

"Il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway

Re: Gleason Score of 7 Treatment Options

Charlie,You appear to be barely in the range to even be considered a cancer. I had a slowly increasing PSA until my yearly physical where it tipped over 4 (4.2). I was negative on the DRE by my doc and had no symptoms. The I was 53. My biopsy was positive on one side about 1/3 cores positive. Recommendation was radical using DaVinci. I chose radical non-DaVinci. When the prostate was checked after the biopsy slightly under-rated the cancer. Still I would in retrospect take the advice others have given and get the samples checked by the short list of really practiced biopsy tissue readers. One key thing on any treatment is that good results are only achieved by highly practiced doctors. 200 or more DaVinci or radical surgeries are required for proficiency. (I feel for the 200 that the doctors practiced on). No matter what you will not return to normal. After treatment you will have difficulty getting an erection, with surgery your penis will be shortened by 1 1/2 to 2 inches (the length of the prostate), and you will never ejaculate again. Some have problems with incontinence. Best case is occasional drip slips (when your exert, cough, fart etc.). There are various radiation treatments.Those involving a beam take a few months of daily treatments (weekends off). Seed implantation is much quicker. Generally the long term results are the same although with radiation you start out with pretty normal erections that deteriorate over time to the same condition as surgery after a few years. This treatment retains the penile length but there are chances of burning of the urethra (tube from bladder that carries the urine). My doctors tended to feel radiation was for the older patients. Some of that could be natural tendency to favor their specialty. I did speak to a radiologist in the same group as my urologist and GP. He did not push radiology. Most of the advanced radiology solutions in the area I am (Chicago Suburbs) are centralized in one center. That justifies the cost of the equipment and has the added benefit of having doctors highly skilled in that procedure. I read a lot of the stories as suggested. Some tend to get depressing especially those who refuse treatment and probably should not have. I am not sure reading those stories provided any greater clarity on what to do.Watchful waiting may be best for you, accompanied by aggressive diet change. If you are older or have other conditions doing nothing will probably work (you will succumb to something else before the cancer will get you). If you are younger you need to balance the fact that you will live the last 1/3 of your life with cranky partially functioning plumbing against the chance of early demise.Good luck on your choice of treatments and your results,Steve