Re: Is anyone out there using a product called MGN-3 from Lane Labs?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Its kind of hard to evaluate this kind of thing...for example,

suppose you managed to find a couple of stage III survivors who took

MGN-3 and went 3 or 4 years without recurrence. What can you

conclude? Well, it is known that about 60% of stage III's are CURED

with just the standard surgery/chemo alone, so how could you tell if

the people you met wouldn't have done fine had they NOT taken the MGN-

3? You really can't, and that's why " anecdotal " evidence is so hard

to interpret.

There are a lot of companies out there very aggressively

marketing " cures " for cancer that really have pretty shaky " evidence "

of efficacy. Some people might consider Lane Labs one of them. For

example, they have apparently made some " exaggerated " claims in the

past about another of their products, Benefin Shark Cartlege, which

got them into a spot of trouble with the FDA

http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/News/shark.html

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2000/06/lanlabsswindstat.htm

A clinical trial was run by the Cancer Treatment Centers of America,

and it didn't appear to show any kind of " dramatic success " .

http://www.publishedresearch.com/SharkCartilage/Phase%20I%20II%

20tria.htm

" Under the specific conditions of this study, SC as a single agent

was inactive in patients with advanced-stage cancer and had no

salutary effect on quality of life. The 16.7% rate of SD was similar

to results in patients with advanced cancer treated with supportive

care alone. "

Now, MGN-3 is not Benefin, and it is not necessarily true that just

because Benefin does not " work " that MGN-3 does not " work " either.

In fact, as I indicated in a previous post, several of the " better "

CAM " authorities " , namely Ralph Moss and the Life Extension

Foundation, basically said " this looks interesting, but we don't

think there is enough data out there to make a judgement " . However,

the Benefin incident should be kept in mind as an example of

an " overtouted " product that didn't live up to its billing - MGN3

COULD be another Benefin, nobody knows.

So while there are certain " alts " out there of which I would say " I

really hate this and I think its a total fraud " , at this point MGN-3

is NOT in that category and I would keep an open mind about it! On

the other hand, I would also be a little bit skeptical of anyone

claiming " hard evidence " that it works.

> The claims are

> that several reputable oncologists have been using the product to

> prevent reoccurence in many types of cancer.

Okay...so do these individuals have any data from their practices

showing a " dramatic " improvement in 5-year survival for stage III

patients? Just because they are USING it doesn't necessarily mean

it " works " ! If you have their names, call them up and ask them!

So while I can't really give you much good advice on MGN3 other than

to say " I don't know! " (which I realize is of little help!), I CAN

however show you an example of something which I belive DOES HAVE

BETTER EVIDENCE OF EFFICACY than MGN-3. It is....

Tagamet!!!! You know, the stuff you take for stomach acid?

I am not joking! You can get it at any supermarket! Cheap!

Well, incredibly enough, they ran a CLINICAL TRIAL IN COLON CANCER

PATIENTS and the Tagamet arm showed a DRAMATIC increase in response

rate! And not only that, this difference was HIGHLY " statitically

significant " (e.g. according to the statistical test, the difference

did not occur by chance):

" Robust beneficial effects of cimetidine were noted: the 10-year

survival rate of the cimetidine group was 84.6% whereas that of

control group was 49.8% (P<0.0001). "

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/suthercon/tagamet.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jul2002_cover_cimetidine_01.html

I've got links to the original papers in the British Journal of

Medicine, full text articles. You can print them out and take them

in to your oncologist to see what he/she says!

Now obviously Lane Labs isn't going to tell you about Tagamet, do a

comparison of MGN-3 to Tagamet, etc. because the evidence in favor of

Tagamet is a LOT stronger and I'm not sure anyone with Colon Cancer

would buy MGN-3 if they made a comparison of these 2 things!

So I dunno...I think you gotta be a bit careful with the " highly

hyped " products. It IS possible that some of them COULD be of

some benefit, MGN3 could be of some benefit, but I think you have to

try to look at the situation as objectively as possible when deciding

among different choices. The most effective things PROBABLY WILL

NOT appear among the " highly marketed supplements " if nobody can make

any money off of them (as is the case for Tagamet!)

> I've talked to a few who swear by it!)

Everything I've said here is just based on what I read, depending on

additional evidence you may have that I don't, I might even change my

mind! I would be interested in hearing any " amazing " stories - e.g.

stage IV's with " dramatic " responses. Is anything you heard like

that?

Best Wishes,

> I am a stage III colo/rectal cancer patient. I've had the ileostomy

> and recovered from surgery, with the exception of the nerves to my

> bladder. I'm told it will take 5-6 months befor they recover or

> regrow.

>

> I was recommended a supplement, a very pricey supplement, a

> derivative of the Shaitake mushroom, grown on rice bran. Lane Labs

> has the patent, so no other company makes an exactly similar

product.

> The claims for this product, (and a lot of anecdotal testimonials,

> I've talked to a few who swear by it!)are that it stimulates the NK

> or " natural killer " T-cells to attack cancer cells. Their research

> is impressive in laboratory experiments, but then us humans aren't

> petri dishes with cancer cells waiting to be killed. The claims

are

> that several reputable oncologists have been using the product to

> prevent reoccurence in many types of cancer.

>

> OK, so I'm taking it! But, I will also follow thru with the chemo

> and probable radiation treatments recommended by my oncologist. Is

> anyone out there taking this supplement?

[Guest guest]

,

how much Tagament should one take a day, as a possible assistant to chemo?

Thanks,

a

altman23 wrote: Hi,

Its kind of hard to evaluate this kind of thing...for example,

suppose you managed to find a couple of stage III survivors who took

MGN-3 and went 3 or 4 years without recurrence. What can you

conclude? Well, it is known that about 60% of stage III's are CURED

with just the standard surgery/chemo alone, so how could you tell if

the people you met wouldn't have done fine had they NOT taken the MGN-

3? You really can't, and that's why " anecdotal " evidence is so hard

to interpret.

There are a lot of companies out there very aggressively

marketing " cures " for cancer that really have pretty shaky " evidence "

of efficacy. Some people might consider Lane Labs one of them. For

example, they have apparently made some " exaggerated " claims in the

past about another of their products, Benefin Shark Cartlege, which

got them into a spot of trouble with the FDA

http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/News/shark.html

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2000/06/lanlabsswindstat.htm

A clinical trial was run by the Cancer Treatment Centers of America,

and it didn't appear to show any kind of " dramatic success " .

http://www.publishedresearch.com/SharkCartilage/Phase%20I%20II%

20tria.htm

" Under the specific conditions of this study, SC as a single agent

was inactive in patients with advanced-stage cancer and had no

salutary effect on quality of life. The 16.7% rate of SD was similar

to results in patients with advanced cancer treated with supportive

care alone. "

Now, MGN-3 is not Benefin, and it is not necessarily true that just

because Benefin does not " work " that MGN-3 does not " work " either.

In fact, as I indicated in a previous post, several of the " better "

CAM " authorities " , namely Ralph Moss and the Life Extension

Foundation, basically said " this looks interesting, but we don't

think there is enough data out there to make a judgement " . However,

the Benefin incident should be kept in mind as an example of

an " overtouted " product that didn't live up to its billing - MGN3

COULD be another Benefin, nobody knows.

So while there are certain " alts " out there of which I would say " I

really hate this and I think its a total fraud " , at this point MGN-3

is NOT in that category and I would keep an open mind about it! On

the other hand, I would also be a little bit skeptical of anyone

claiming " hard evidence " that it works.

> The claims are

> that several reputable oncologists have been using the product to

> prevent reoccurence in many types of cancer.

Okay...so do these individuals have any data from their practices

showing a " dramatic " improvement in 5-year survival for stage III

patients? Just because they are USING it doesn't necessarily mean

it " works " ! If you have their names, call them up and ask them!

So while I can't really give you much good advice on MGN3 other than

to say " I don't know! " (which I realize is of little help!), I CAN

however show you an example of something which I belive DOES HAVE

BETTER EVIDENCE OF EFFICACY than MGN-3. It is....

Tagamet!!!! You know, the stuff you take for stomach acid?

I am not joking! You can get it at any supermarket! Cheap!

Well, incredibly enough, they ran a CLINICAL TRIAL IN COLON CANCER

PATIENTS and the Tagamet arm showed a DRAMATIC increase in response

rate! And not only that, this difference was HIGHLY " statitically

significant " (e.g. according to the statistical test, the difference

did not occur by chance):

" Robust beneficial effects of cimetidine were noted: the 10-year

survival rate of the cimetidine group was 84.6% whereas that of

control group was 49.8% (P<0.0001). "

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/suthercon/tagamet.htm

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jul2002_cover_cimetidine_01.html

I've got links to the original papers in the British Journal of

Medicine, full text articles. You can print them out and take them

in to your oncologist to see what he/she says!

Now obviously Lane Labs isn't going to tell you about Tagamet, do a

comparison of MGN-3 to Tagamet, etc. because the evidence in favor of

Tagamet is a LOT stronger and I'm not sure anyone with Colon Cancer

would buy MGN-3 if they made a comparison of these 2 things!

So I dunno...I think you gotta be a bit careful with the " highly

hyped " products. It IS possible that some of them COULD be of

some benefit, MGN3 could be of some benefit, but I think you have to

try to look at the situation as objectively as possible when deciding

among different choices. The most effective things PROBABLY WILL

NOT appear among the " highly marketed supplements " if nobody can make

any money off of them (as is the case for Tagamet!)

> I've talked to a few who swear by it!)

Everything I've said here is just based on what I read, depending on

additional evidence you may have that I don't, I might even change my

mind! I would be interested in hearing any " amazing " stories - e.g.

stage IV's with " dramatic " responses. Is anything you heard like

that?

Best Wishes,

> I am a stage III colo/rectal cancer patient. I've had the ileostomy

> and recovered from surgery, with the exception of the nerves to my

> bladder. I'm told it will take 5-6 months befor they recover or

> regrow.

>

> I was recommended a supplement, a very pricey supplement, a

> derivative of the Shaitake mushroom, grown on rice bran. Lane Labs

> has the patent, so no other company makes an exactly similar

product.

> The claims for this product, (and a lot of anecdotal testimonials,

> I've talked to a few who swear by it!)are that it stimulates the NK

> or " natural killer " T-cells to attack cancer cells. Their research

> is impressive in laboratory experiments, but then us humans aren't

> petri dishes with cancer cells waiting to be killed. The claims

are

> that several reputable oncologists have been using the product to

> prevent reoccurence in many types of cancer.

>

> OK, so I'm taking it! But, I will also follow thru with the chemo

> and probable radiation treatments recommended by my oncologist. Is

> anyone out there taking this supplement?

[Guest guest]

Be sure you see post 562 on the Experimental board. What a

coincidence, a new abstract showed up today on MEDLINE which fits

right in with this conversation! They apparently tested a few

products (see abstract for names) and reached the

CONCLUSION: " An aggressive combination of immunoactive Nutraceuticals

was effective in significantly increasing NK function, other immune

parameters and hemoglobin from PBMC or plasma in patients with late

stage cancers. Nutraceutical combinations may be effective in late

stage cancers "

So yeah, it sounded like some of these things might help boost NK

activity....and notice it WASN'T MGN-3 they were talking about!

USUALLY I would be VERY SURPRISED if " one single product " such as MGN-

3 has a " lock " on the market - these things almost ALWAYS have

competitors (which could be quite a bit cheaper, I don't know LOL!)

Best,

[Guest guest]

>

> ,

> how much Tagament should one take a day, as a possible assistant to

chemo?

> Thanks,

> a

Hi a,

According to the paper, 800 mg/day:

" Cimetidine has been shown to have beneficial effects in colorectal

cancer patients. In this study, a total of 64 colorectal cancer

patients who received curative operation were examined for the

effects of cimetidine treatment on survival and recurrence. The

cimetidine group was given 800 mg day-1 of cimetidine orally together

with 200 mg day-1 of 5-fluorouracil, while the control group received

5-fluorouracil alone. The treatment was initiated 2 weeks after the

operation and terminated after 1 year. Robust beneficial effects of

cimetidine were noted: the 10-year survival rate of the cimetidine

group was 84.6% whereas that of control group was 49.8% (P<0.0001). "

(have to COPY link into browser)

http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?

file=/bjc/journal/v86/n2/full/6600048a.html

This is apparently the same as the " prescription " dose docs used to

give for ulcers (I think other more effective meds such as Prilosec

or Prevacid have replaced Tagamet and it is not prescribed much these

days)

http://bnf.vhn.net/bnf/documents/bnf.241.html

" Dose: by mouth, 400 mg twice daily (with breakfast and at night) or

800 mg at night (benign gastric and duodenal ulceration) for at least

4 weeks (6 weeks in gastric ulceration, 8 weeks in NSAID-associated

ulceration) "

However, 800mg/day is about double what the package you get OTC

recommends. I think the difference is because when they take

formerly prescription drugs OTC, they always cut the dose roughly in

half because they are worried a few people might have bad reaction.

I don't THINK the stuff will hurt MOST PEOPLE (but I strongly suggest

checking this with a doctor, 'cause I ain't one!!!), as the reference

goes on to say

" when necessary the dose may be increased to 400 mg 4 times daily or

rarely (as in stress ulceration) to max. 2.4 g daily in divided

doses "

NOTE: this statement is true for ulcer relief, there is no reason

anyone taking this for cancer would need to increase dose!

I would ALWAYS suggest checking with a doctor before taking any new

meds like this to make sure it doesn't interfere with what you're

currently on (could potentially increase or decrease absorption of

various OTHER drugs) and is ok at the dose you want to take.

Best Wishes,