Re: More support for the PCA3 urine test to predict insignificant PC development

[Guest guest]

, my husband, recently got tested for PCA3 by Dr. Crawford in Denver.  He's doing a study regarding PCA3.   I'm not sure what the nature of the study is, but for , Dr. Crawford used the PCA3 result to determine the aggressiveness of his cancer.   He obviously wasn't doing it to check to see if had cancer since a biopsy already showed that. 

Here's what I know about it:  The literature I've read, both on the path report and in promotional literature say that  the main use is for determining before a biopsy the likelihood of someone having PC.   Again, Dr. Crawford also apparently uses it to determine the aggressiveness of the cancer.  Even though 's GS is 3/4 (it unfortunately got upgraded by their pathologists) and PC showed in in a number of cores with 35% in one, Dr. Crawford is not too concerned about it because (or partly because) of the PCA3 score of 14.8.  The pre-sample massage was just an ordinary DRE, though slightly on the aggressive side.  No pain.  No big deal.  

The test is run by Avero Diagnostics.  I can send the contact info if anyone wants it.   It may or may not be covered by insurance but because his was taken as part of a study, they will find ways to pay for it if it's not covered by insurance.

The " test reference " listed on the lab sheet is:Groskoph, J., et. a.  Clinical Chemistry, 2006:52 (6)  1089-1095  Marks, L. S., Y.  Fradet, et. al.  (2007)  " PCA3 molecular urine assay for prostate cancer in men undergoing repeat biopsy "    Urology 69:  532-535.

I find it interesting that the PCA3, free PSA and PSA seem to be the only tests Dr. Crawford is interested in.   I brought in a laundry list of recommended tests (PAP, CgA, NSE, CEA and IGF-1) and he wasn't the least bit interested in them.  Not sure why.   Does anyone have any opinions on whether these are good tests to do for tumor profiling before treatment for someone such as (GS 3/4, CS T2b, PSA about 2.5)?

-Sprecher

 

In that it takes a very vigorous (and I expect not overly comfortable) “massaging” all around the prostate gland to “shed” cancer cells, the question would also be how adept are most physicians on providing this “massage” sufficiently.  I know of a physician who has found that “gentle” massaging can help reduce BPH.  And the following indicates that gentle massaging can help with prostatitis.  Note, too, in the paper, the downside of “vigorous” massaging.  So, there is more to “massaging” than just going ahead and doing it.

 http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/massage.html

   I provided the recent PCA3 article in view of its possible aid when it appears likely PC is developing, PSA is rising, but biopsy isn’t finding any PC, and the patients are in an “Active Surveillance” mode. 

 

[Guest guest]

, my husband, recently got tested for PCA3 by Dr. Crawford in Denver.  He's doing a study regarding PCA3.   I'm not sure what the nature of the study is, but for , Dr. Crawford used the PCA3 result to determine the aggressiveness of his cancer.   He obviously wasn't doing it to check to see if had cancer since a biopsy already showed that. 

Here's what I know about it:  The literature I've read, both on the path report and in promotional literature say that  the main use is for determining before a biopsy the likelihood of someone having PC.   Again, Dr. Crawford also apparently uses it to determine the aggressiveness of the cancer.  Even though 's GS is 3/4 (it unfortunately got upgraded by their pathologists) and PC showed in in a number of cores with 35% in one, Dr. Crawford is not too concerned about it because (or partly because) of the PCA3 score of 14.8.  The pre-sample massage was just an ordinary DRE, though slightly on the aggressive side.  No pain.  No big deal.  

The test is run by Avero Diagnostics.  I can send the contact info if anyone wants it.   It may or may not be covered by insurance but because his was taken as part of a study, they will find ways to pay for it if it's not covered by insurance.

The " test reference " listed on the lab sheet is:Groskoph, J., et. a.  Clinical Chemistry, 2006:52 (6)  1089-1095  Marks, L. S., Y.  Fradet, et. al.  (2007)  " PCA3 molecular urine assay for prostate cancer in men undergoing repeat biopsy "    Urology 69:  532-535.

I find it interesting that the PCA3, free PSA and PSA seem to be the only tests Dr. Crawford is interested in.   I brought in a laundry list of recommended tests (PAP, CgA, NSE, CEA and IGF-1) and he wasn't the least bit interested in them.  Not sure why.   Does anyone have any opinions on whether these are good tests to do for tumor profiling before treatment for someone such as (GS 3/4, CS T2b, PSA about 2.5)?

-Sprecher

 

In that it takes a very vigorous (and I expect not overly comfortable) “massaging” all around the prostate gland to “shed” cancer cells, the question would also be how adept are most physicians on providing this “massage” sufficiently.  I know of a physician who has found that “gentle” massaging can help reduce BPH.  And the following indicates that gentle massaging can help with prostatitis.  Note, too, in the paper, the downside of “vigorous” massaging.  So, there is more to “massaging” than just going ahead and doing it.

 http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/massage.html

   I provided the recent PCA3 article in view of its possible aid when it appears likely PC is developing, PSA is rising, but biopsy isn’t finding any PC, and the patients are in an “Active Surveillance” mode. 

 

[Guest guest]

As far as the menu of tests is concerned,

Dr Strum has a deal to say about them in his book which was discussed yesterday,

details of which can be found here http://www.yananow.org/Primer/PrimerBook.htm

If you don’t have a copy of the book, then this piece may be worth

reading as Dr Strum goes to some lengths to explain how he feels prostate

cancer should be diagnosed prior to any decision being made as to the most

appropriate therapy http://prostate-cancer.org/education/riskases/Strum_StrategyOfSuccess1.html

From what I understand there are very few urologists who agree with this

approach. Dr Dattoli may be an exception, since he suggests having the panel of

tests done, by his pathology laboratory, ahead of therapy at his Center.

Just one other point when you say <snip>

The pre-sample massage was just an ordinary DRE, though slightly

on the aggressive side. No pain. No big deal. <snip> In my original post I did not have in mind any

discomfort, specifically, but the fact that it is very difficult to ensure a

standard ‘vigorous massage’. Just what does that mean in scientific

terms? And how does one overcome physical issues – a very large man and a

doctor with a small hand: a small man and a doctor with a long finger: a very

large gland: a small gland: surely all of these variables must produce a

variable result? Body parts are not all a standard size in a standard

position when all is said and done.

All the best

Prostate men need enlightening, not

frightening

Terry Herbert - diagnosed in 1996 and

still going strong

Read A Strange Place for unbiased information at http://www.yananow.org/StrangePlace/index.html

From: ProstateCancerSupport

[mailto:ProstateCancerSupport ] On Behalf Of Anders

Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2011 10:03

AM

To:

ProstateCancerSupport

Subject: Re:

More support for the PCA3 urine test to predict

insignificant PC development

, my husband, recently got tested for PCA3 by Dr. Crawford in Denver. He's doing

a study regarding PCA3. I'm not sure what the nature of the study

is, but for , Dr. Crawford used the PCA3 result to determine the

aggressiveness of his cancer. He obviously wasn't doing it to check

to see if had cancer since a biopsy already showed that.

Here's what I know about it: The literature I've read, both on the path

report and in promotional literature say that the main use is for

determining before a biopsy the likelihood of someone having PC.

Again, Dr. Crawford also apparently uses it to determine the aggressiveness of

the cancer. Even though 's GS is 3/4 (it unfortunately got

upgraded by their pathologists) and PC showed in in a number of cores with 35%

in one, Dr. Crawford is not too concerned about it because (or partly because)

of the PCA3 score of 14.8. The pre-sample massage was just an ordinary

DRE, though slightly on the aggressive side. No pain. No big deal.

The test is run by Avero Diagnostics. I can send the contact info if

anyone wants it. It may or may not be covered by insurance but

because his was taken as part of a study, they will find ways to pay for it if

it's not covered by insurance.

The " test reference " listed on the lab sheet is:

Groskoph, J., et. a. Clinical Chemistry, 2006:52 (6)

1089-1095

Marks, L. S., Y. Fradet, et. al. (2007) " PCA3 molecular

urine assay for prostate cancer in men undergoing repeat

biopsy " Urology 69: 532-535.

I find it interesting that the PCA3, free PSA and PSA seem to be the only tests

Dr. Crawford is interested in. I brought in a laundry list of

recommended tests (PAP, CgA, NSE, CEA and IGF-1) and he wasn't the least bit

interested in them. Not sure why. Does anyone have any

opinions on whether these are good tests to do for tumor profiling before

treatment for someone such as (GS 3/4, CS T2b, PSA about 2.5)?

-Sprecher

In that it takes a very vigorous (and I expect not overly comfortable)

“massaging” all around the prostate gland to “shed”

cancer cells, the question would also be how adept are most physicians on

providing this “massage” sufficiently. I know of a physician

who has found that “gentle” massaging can help reduce BPH.

And the following indicates that gentle massaging can help with

prostatitis. Note, too, in the paper, the downside of

“vigorous” massaging. So, there is more to

“massaging” than just going ahead and doing it.

http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/massage.html

I provided the recent PCA3 article in view of its possible aid when it

appears likely PC is developing, PSA is rising, but biopsy isn’t finding

any PC, and the patients are in an “Active Surveillance”

mode.