Re: stress dosing HC for extended periods

[Guest guest]

Liz I am not sure where everyone is gettign the idea estrogne does these

things ot emps but it si NOYT true. I hbave been on estrogne for YEARS

and my temps are normal and so steady I woudl bet my life on their

stabilkity. AT any given time of day I anc tell you EXACTLY what my temp

is except whenI am ill which is not oftne these days. Your re[peated

illness is a symptoms in itself that may or may not mean high cortisol.

vyou cehcked BP recently? I woudl HUNT for any siogns of high cortils

with that high a dose and watch your glucose like a hawk.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Hi Val

I always notice a lowering of my temps on estrogen. Isn't that why temps are

higher during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle?

You think the repeated illness means high and not low cortisol? I have all the

low cortisol symptoms, though like weakness, high pulse, dark circles under the

eyes, etc., and I feel better when I take HC.

I will take my temps and see whats going on.

I do have signs of high cortisol now because I went up on the HC. My face is

puffy. Otherwise no symptoms when my dose is lower (lowering again today, so

hopefully the puffy face will be gone tomorrow)

I think I am just one of these people that needs high HC to deal with the

cytomel, maybe my antidepressants, too. I feel like I keep adjusting to higher

doses, though.

Why is that?

My blood pressure is always good. It used to be too low. I never have a BP

problem.

I am trying to stay away from sugar because of the glucose thing. What else

should I look out for?

Thanks!

liz

>

> Liz I am not sure where everyone is gettign the idea estrogne does these

> things ot emps but it si NOYT true. I hbave been on estrogne for YEARS

> and my temps are normal and so steady I woudl bet my life on their

> stabilkity. AT any given time of day I anc tell you EXACTLY what my temp

> is except whenI am ill which is not oftne these days. Your re[peated

> illness is a symptoms in itself that may or may not mean high cortisol.

> vyou cehcked BP recently? I woudl HUNT for any siogns of high cortils

> with that high a dose and watch your glucose like a hawk.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

>

[Guest guest]

Liz,

What you're saying below sounds like me last year. I kept going up and up on HC

because I didn't seem to be able to tolerate t3 otherwise and felt " fluish " all

the time. I was taking a good 50 HC at least every day and that often wasn't

enough. Turns out I had an active EBV infection and still have not recovered

from it. It appears my immune system isn't functioning well and so now I am

working on that with the Holtorf Clinic and finally back on t3 and down on the

HC.

Kathleen

> >

> > Liz I am not sure where everyone is gettign the idea estrogne does these

> > things ot emps but it si NOYT true. I hbave been on estrogne for YEARS

> > and my temps are normal and so steady I woudl bet my life on their

> > stabilkity. AT any given time of day I anc tell you EXACTLY what my temp

> > is except whenI am ill which is not oftne these days. Your re[peated

> > illness is a symptoms in itself that may or may not mean high cortisol.

> > vyou cehcked BP recently? I woudl HUNT for any siogns of high cortils

> > with that high a dose and watch your glucose like a hawk.

> >

> > --

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

> >

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathleen!

It does sound very similar. I do have EBV because I have had mono as a child. A

lot of my autoimmune symptoms were triggered by a horrible virus 15 years ago,

too. I take acyclovir, but I don't know if it does any good.

Why are you going down on the thyroid and HC? What are you going to do to help

the EBV? Do you feel worse after having gone down on all of that stuff?

Did you get a blood test?

I definitely feel like there is something going on that gobbles up all of my HC.

I don't feel fluish necessarily when I go down, I just get higher heart rates

and I get weak and pale. I start losing weight, too (I like that part, actually

:-), but its not worth it! ). When I go up on the HC I feel much stronger, am

able to exercise, etc.

Why does Dr Holtorf no want you to stay on the HC? I know this is a weird

thought, but would n't the HC help you get past the virus, eventually? Maybe

people with viral issues just need more?

Thanks

Liz

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam

I think I saw a post of yours on the adrenal board and replied, then posted

something about this- it does sound like a similar issue. I wish I could figure

out why some of us need so much HC. Mostly I am trying to figure out if it is

okay and if we should simply take the higher amounts as long as we don't get

high cortisol symptoms. I am trying to " trust my body " , but at the same time I

worry because I need so much, ya know what I mean? I just hate having the high

heart rate, especially. I get the shakes, too (I noticed you get those on your

other post)

Liz

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,

Almost everyone has had mono and thus had EBV antibodies, but they are not sick

from it. So just because you had mono doesn't mean EBV is *necessarily* causing

problems for you now. It's when the virus keeps reactivating or causes chronic

infection symptoms that it is an issue.

Anyhoo,I am not going down on thyroid, I am going up on t3! :-) I have been

going down on HC, probably because of getting the virus in check and also

clearing rt3. I didn't say Holtorf want me off HC, they said no such thing. They

are fine with me being on HC. I just seem to need less now, that's all.

Yeah, I lost a ton of weight last winter, which I think was due to the cortisol

problems as I was only on 75 mcg t3. I am on almost that much now and not losing

weight at all, lol. Yes, I had a blood test last winter and had ACTIVE EBV

meaning it had reactivated and I actually had mono. So no wonder I felt like

crap and was going through all that HC. Now my antibodies won't go down and I

have symptoms of chronic infection, but it's gotten a lot better with treatment.

I have done tons of Vit C IVs, Olive Leaf Extract and Garlic, and Holtorf puts

you on a combination of Valtrex or Valcyte and Tranfer Factor with Beta Glucan.

BUT it was emphasized to me there that I need to get my thyroid optimized

because I could never get this virus under control if my immune system wasn't

strong from being on thryoid, etc. Probably low thyroid is what lead to this

reactivation in the first place.

Taking more and more HC did not help me get over the virus. I took so much HC I

totally suppressed all my own natural cortisol production and things went very

badly from that point. I think my immune system was/is in such a bad state that

it needed a lot more help than HC. Tranfer Factor is an immune system modulator

and Beta Glucan helps mop up all the crap left over as the infection is killed

off.

Kathleen

>

>

> Hi Kathleen!

> It does sound very similar. I do have EBV because I have had mono as a child.

A lot of my autoimmune symptoms were triggered by a horrible virus 15 years ago,

too. I take acyclovir, but I don't know if it does any good.

> Why are you going down on the thyroid and HC? What are you going to do to help

the EBV? Do you feel worse after having gone down on all of that stuff?

> Did you get a blood test?

> I definitely feel like there is something going on that gobbles up all of my

HC. I don't feel fluish necessarily when I go down, I just get higher heart

rates and I get weak and pale. I start losing weight, too (I like that part,

actually :-), but its not worth it! ). When I go up on the HC I feel much

stronger, am able to exercise, etc.

> Why does Dr Holtorf no want you to stay on the HC? I know this is a weird

thought, but would n't the HC help you get past the virus, eventually? Maybe

people with viral issues just need more?

> Thanks

> Liz

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, but the shakes in hypoglycemia is from the adrenaline release, I believe.

;-)

Kathleen

>

> >This night I took hc in middle of the night and this morn was the first morn

I woke up without the shakes. I am theorizing that the shakes are

adrenaline-related. Just don't know how to confirm that.

>

> Shakes can be hypoglycemia (caused by low cortisol) as well

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, taking tons of HC will make you feel better, at least for a while. But I

think it's better to find out WHY you need so much HC. Val really emphasized to

me to get down to 40 or less HC. She sounded pretty serious about it. I don't

know how much you take. At the time, I had to stop t3 to get off the HC because

my body needed so much HC it couldn't tolerate the t3 without taking 50 to 70 mg

HC every day. Not good!

After I started treating other underlying issues affecting my adrenals, I wss

able to restart t3 and not need escalating doses of HC. In fact, I seem to need

even less HC now.

BTW, I also had dysbiosis of the gut -- or bad bacteria overgrowth. I got rid of

it with LOTS of garlic and probiotics. I am not sure if this was causing adrenal

stress, too, but it likely was.

Kathleen

>

> Just wanna chime in, I also feel a whole lot better on a whole lot more HC. I

feel something in my body just gobbles it up every hour. I feel like I'm feeding

some kind of pet inside my tummy, I throw it a fish and it gobbles up the fish

immediately. Within an hour it comes asking for more....

>  

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: RT3_T3

> Sent: Sun, January 17, 2010 10:58:04 AM

> Subject: Re: stress dosing HC for extended periods

>

>  

>

> Hi Kathleen!

> It does sound very similar. I do have EBV because I have had mono as a child.

A lot of my autoimmune symptoms were triggered by a horrible virus 15 years ago,

too. I take acyclovir, but I don't know if it does any good.

> Why are you going down on the thyroid and HC? What are you going to do to help

the EBV? Do you feel worse after having gone down on all of that stuff?

> Did you get a blood test?

> I definitely feel like there is something going on that gobbles up all of my

HC.. I don't feel fluish necessarily when I go down, I just get higher heart

rates and I get weak and pale. I start losing weight, too (I like that part,

actually :-), but its not worth it! ). When I go up on the HC I feel much

stronger, am able to exercise, etc.

> Why does Dr Holtorf no want you to stay on the HC? I know this is a weird

thought, but would n't the HC help you get past the virus, eventually? Maybe

people with viral issues just need more?

> Thanks

> Liz

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathleen

Thanks for the post. Very interesting.

Aren't we supposed to suppress our adrenal to let it rest? Or am I

misunderstanding the HC protocol?

This is frustrating for me because I have had so many blood tests and I haven't

found one underlying thing. I haven't checked for active EBV antibodies, though.

I will suggest that to my doctor.

Thanks

Liz

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam

I get shakes and high heart rate when I go down on the HC. When I raise my HC

dose, my heart rate goes down and my symptoms get better.

Arg!

Liz

[Guest guest]

I am pretty sure we are not supposed to be totally suppressing our adrenals.

That is why Val says not to take more than 10 mg HC in the morning or you drop

your ACTH too low, which shuts down your own cortisol production and then you

will go too low in cortisol later in the day.

But anyway, we are still resting our adrenals because they don't have to work as

hard if we are supplying extra cortisol from pills. For example, say the

adrenals put out all they can for the AM, and it's still not enough, but they're

exhausted, so by noon, there isn't enough to even have normal levels. Well, if

you take some HC in the AM, your adrenals don't have to put out all they can so

they are not exhausted and cam put out a little bit then and later on, too, see?

Do you have the book " Safe Uses of Cortisol " by Jeffries? He explains all this.

I think with 20 mg HC, it suppresses the HPA axis by 60%, depending on the

person and how much you were making in the first place of course. The more you

take, the more the HPA axis is suppressed but in general, most people here are

not trying to totally shut off their adrenals completely.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong!

For the EBV and other latent infections that can keep people sick, check out

Holtorf's website under the Chronic Fatigue section. It explains how normal

doctors just don't get the virus thing as they're taught in med school that

unless you show IGM antibodies, you aren't sick from the virus. IGG antibodies

are the ones that stick around forever once you've had a virus, but they tend to

run really high if the virus is hanging around and making you feel lousy.

>

>

> Hi Kathleen

> Thanks for the post. Very interesting.

> Aren't we supposed to suppress our adrenal to let it rest? Or am I

misunderstanding the HC protocol?

> This is frustrating for me because I have had so many blood tests and I

haven't found one underlying thing. I haven't checked for active EBV antibodies,

though. I will suggest that to my doctor.

> Thanks

> Liz

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I stopped the t3 cold turkey. I was on 75 mcg at the time. I don't

recommend that, but that's what I did! I feared a horrible crash, but it didn't

happen like that. I do have a thyroid, though. By that time I'd cleared the rt3

(was down to 7 with range 11 to 32) so I think what likely happened was that

when my thyroid kicked back in, the t3 that was being made/converted was

actually able to get to my cells. So, I felt a bit tired, but nothing huge. Just

my usual crappiness, lol. Eventually, though, I did go very hypo again and it

was not good!

> >

> > Just wanna chime in, I also feel a whole lot better on a whole lot more HC.

I feel something in my body just gobbles it up every hour. I feel like I'm

feeding some kind of pet inside my tummy, I throw it a fish and it gobbles up

the fish immediately.. Within an hour it comes asking for more....

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: lizdoubleu <wliz@>

> > To: RT3_T3yahoogroups (DOT) com

> > Sent: Sun, January 17, 2010 10:58:04 AM

> > Subject: Re: stress dosing HC for extended periods

> >

> >  

> >

> > Hi Kathleen!

> > It does sound very similar. I do have EBV because I have had mono as a

child. A lot of my autoimmune symptoms were triggered by a horrible virus 15

years ago, too. I take acyclovir, but I don't know if it does any good.

> > Why are you going down on the thyroid and HC? What are you going to do to

help the EBV? Do you feel worse after having gone down on all of that stuff?

> > Did you get a blood test?

> > I definitely feel like there is something going on that gobbles up all of my

HC.. I don't feel fluish necessarily when I go down, I just get higher heart

rates and I get weak and pale. I start losing weight, too (I like that part,

actually :-), but its not worth it! ). When I go up on the HC I feel much

stronger, am able to exercise, etc.

> > Why does Dr Holtorf no want you to stay on the HC? I know this is a weird

thought, but would n't the HC help you get past the virus, eventually? Maybe

people with viral issues just need more?

> > Thanks

> > Liz

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Have you tried salt? Maybe the shakes are from low sodium. I think if one is not

having good results on high doses of HC, we are supposed to try salt and

aldosterone if needed.

About the adrenaline, yes, if cortisol is low, you will pump out adrenaline.

> >

> > >This night I took hc in middle of the night and this morn was the first

morn I woke up without the shakes. I am theorizing that the shakes are

adrenaline-related. Just don't know how to confirm that.

> >

> > Shakes can be hypoglycemia (caused by low cortisol) as well

> >

> > Nick

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Val has mentioned before morning shakes can be adrenaline related - compensating

for low blood sugar, and it could also be something else, I forgot. But, I know

it at least COULD be adrenaline.

>

>

> You get high heart rate on less hc or on more hc? I will check my pulse as

well, I only know my basal is 60-64.

> This night I took hc in middle of the night and this morn was the first morn I

woke up without the shakes. I am theorizing that the shakes are

adrenaline-related. Just don't know how to confirm that.

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: RT3_T3

> Sent: Sun, January 17, 2010 11:34:35 AM

> Subject: Re: stress dosing HC for extended periods

>

>  

> Hi Miriam

> I think I saw a post of yours on the adrenal board and replied, then posted

something about this- it does sound like a similar issue. I wish I could figure

out why some of us need so much HC. Mostly I am trying to figure out if it is

okay and if we should simply take the higher amounts as long as we don't get

high cortisol symptoms. I am trying to " trust my body " , but at the same time I

worry because I need so much, ya know what I mean? I just hate having the high

heart rate, especially. I get the shakes, too (I noticed you get those on your

other post)

> Liz

>