Re: GP about iron IV & Ferritin + T3

[Guest guest]

My doc felt the same way about the IV option. But he does target a ferritin level of 80. The lowest number I've seen in most of the articles I've read is 70.Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryDate: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:35:30 -0800 (PST)To: <RT3_T3 >Subject: GP about iron IV Ferritin + T3 Felt so bed yesterday that I went to my doctors office today. He listened to my lungs,nothing. ECG was unchanged from the last time I checked it. He told me to come backin the end of next week to do Ferritin.So, about the iron IV: My GP told me today that taking iron IV is a bad idea, beause itgives you high Ferritin very fast, and it can damage the liver even if the Ferritin won't overthe top range after getting the IV. Then, the value goes down.. He talked about the ironIV like it was pointless. His personal opinion was that I don't need a higher Ferritin than25 to tolerate T3.I am stopping my iron supplements today to test my Ferritin, the proper way, in 5 days.Can I just go down from 150 mg to nothing? It's starting iron supplements that's moredifficult, like I need to raise it slowly, right?

[Guest guest]

Then again, where is the proof that we need a Ferritin of 70+ ? Are there any researcharticles on it online? This is typically a GP's point of view. What do I say to him aboutthe Ferritin? He has the "STTM" book. But where is the proof of this whole Ferritin issue?Now I'm just scared I've been taking too much chelated iron. If it's really 10-15 timesbetter absorbed into the body than regular iron, I've been taking a lot... 150 mg daily...

My doc felt the same way about the IV option. But he does target a ferritin level of 80. The lowest number I've seen in most of the articles I've read is 70.Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom: Gibcast <gibcastyahoo (DOT) com>

Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:35:30 -0800 (PST)To: <RT3_T3yahoogroups (DOT) com>Subject: GP about iron IV Ferritin + T3

Felt so bed yesterday that I went to my doctors office today. He listened to my lungs,nothing. ECG was unchanged from the last time I checked it. He told me to come backin the end of next week to do Ferritin.So, about the iron IV: My GP told me today that taking iron IV is a bad idea, beause it

gives you high Ferritin very fast, and it can damage the liver even if the Ferritin won't over

the top range after getting the IV. Then, the value goes down.. He talked about the iron

IV like it was pointless. His personal opinion was that I don't need a higher Ferritin than

25 to tolerate T3.

I am stopping my iron supplements today to test my Ferritin, the proper way, in 5 days.

Can I just go down from 150 mg to nothing? It's starting iron supplements that's more

difficult, like I need to raise it slowly, right?

[Guest guest]

>Felt so bed yesterday that I went to my doctors office today. He listened to my

lungs,

>nothing. ECG was unchanged from the last time I checked it. He told me to come

back

>in the end of next week to do Ferritin.

Sounds good so far

>

>So, about the iron IV: My GP told me today that taking iron IV is a bad idea,

beause it

>gives you high Ferritin very fast,

That sounds like what you need!!

>and it can damage the liver even if the Ferritin won't over

>the top range after getting the IV. Then, the value goes down.. He talked about

the iron

>IV like it was pointless. His personal opinion was that I don't need a higher

Ferritin than

>25 to tolerate T3.

The experience of a LOT of people says that it needs to be higher. If

you were tolerating the T3 then there is no problem, as you are not

then it's worth a try as it has helped many other people

Nick

[Guest guest]

The experience of people is VERY important, maybe even all that matters. That's whydocs keep spewing out T4 and T4-only to Hypo people, not dessicared thyroid.I would need higher Ferritin, and fast, yes please. But he meant that the risks were many,and especially me who is Hypo and I already have high liver and kidney values, cause ofthe hypo state probably. That is another thing I wonder about: Will taking iron supplements(tablets) be of any danger to the liver?GP also said that Ferritin would fall after getting the IV anyway so what's the point, was hisopinion. He will not give me iron IV.God I feel awful today. No power. The feeling of infection in my whole body. Basically I feeldying. And I have no idea what to do... Too scared to operate my tonsils, I am not gettingenough info from people about tonsil

operation while Hypo and AF, stress-dosing withHC etc. and... I just feel so weak and bad, with the heart feeling strange and I am justwaiting for another irregular heartbeat and possibly death.T.

>Felt so bed yesterday that I went to my doctors office today. He listened to my lungs,

>nothing. ECG was unchanged from the last time I checked it. He told me to come back

>in the end of next week to do Ferritin.

Sounds good so far

>

>So, about the iron IV: My GP told me today that taking iron IV is a bad idea, beause it

>gives you high Ferritin very fast,

That sounds like what you need!!

>and it can damage the liver even if the Ferritin won't over

>the top range after getting the IV. Then, the value goes down.. He talked about the iron

>IV like it was pointless. His personal opinion was that I don't need a higher Ferritin than

>25 to tolerate T3.

The experience of a LOT of people says that it needs to be higher. If

you were tolerating the T3 then there is no problem, as you are not

then it's worth a try as it has helped many other people

[Guest guest]

>GP also said that Ferritin would fall after getting the IV anyway so what's the

point, was his

>opinion. He will not give me iron IV.

It won't fall as much if you use the time that it's up to get some T3

into you. Once you are no longer hypo you can retain the ferritin

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin/

Hypo causes loss of ferritin, low ferritin causes inability to

utilise/tolerate thyroid meds.

You need to break the circle, you can climb out slowly by easing up

on both edgingg up on the T3 over a period of months as you increase

the Ferritin or you can have a big jump in Ferritin and then add T3

quite quickly BEFORE it decays. Adding that T3 will PREVENT the

ferritin sinking again.

>

That is the benefit of the IV, it breaks the circle for long enough to

get you able to retain iron again.

>God I feel awful today. No power. The feeling of infection in my whole body.

Basically I feel

>dying. And I have no idea what to do... Too scared to operate my tonsils, I am

not getting

>enough info from people about tonsil operation while Hypo and AF, stress-dosing

with

>HC etc. and... I just feel so weak and bad, with the heart feeling strange and

I am just

>waiting for another irregular heartbeat and possibly death.

Missing that T3 from yesterday.

This says to me you might be ready for another dose increase,

hopefully the ferritin has come up enough to tolerate it.

Bring all the doses a little closer together and add another 5mcg as

an extra dose. If it does not work then just go back to the original

dosing the next day, no harm done.

Less missing beats today than yesterday says that it was low T3

causing it, not too much

Nick.

[Guest guest]

I still don't know if I forgot to take those 5 mcgs of T3 yesterday. According to my journal, I did take 20 mcgs. The irregular heartbeat-episodes (not just an extra heartbeat! this feels much worse!) happened after taking 10 mcg of T3, and after taking 15 mcgs of T3. No sense to that...In a way it feels like my body is saying GIVE ME MORE T3. But I am very insecure about it. What if I can't tolerate the extra T3 cause of the low Ferritin? Maybe I should wait to take extra T3 til after the blood sample? I will get the result on next Friday. It's a long time to wait though.I am worried about the loopback(?) thing with T4 going down (10.0 a week+ ago) and.. yeah!

>GP also said that Ferritin would fall after getting the IV anyway so what's the point, was his

>opinion. He will not give me iron IV.

It won't fall as much if you use the time that it's up to get some T3

into you. Once you are no longer hypo you can retain the ferritin

http://www.stopthet hyroidmadness. com/ferritin/

Hypo causes loss of ferritin, low ferritin causes inability to

utilise/tolerate thyroid meds.

You need to break the circle, you can climb out slowly by easing up

on both edgingg up on the T3 over a period of months as you increase

the Ferritin or you can have a big jump in Ferritin and then add T3

quite quickly BEFORE it decays. Adding that T3 will PREVENT the

ferritin sinking again.

>

That is the benefit of the IV, it breaks the circle for long enough to

get you able to retain iron again.

>God I feel awful today. No power. The feeling of infection in my whole body. Basically I feel

>dying. And I have no idea what to do... Too scared to operate my tonsils, I am not getting

>enough info from people about tonsil operation while Hypo and AF, stress-dosing with

>HC etc. and... I just feel so weak and bad, with the heart feeling strange and I am just

>waiting for another irregular heartbeat and possibly death.

Missing that T3 from yesterday.

This says to me you might be ready for another dose increase,

hopefully the ferritin has come up enough to tolerate it.

Bring all the doses a little closer together and add another 5mcg as

an extra dose. If it does not work then just go back to the original

dosing the next day, no harm done.

Less missing beats today than yesterday says that it was low T3

causing it, not too much

Nick.

[Guest guest]

>In a way it feels like my body is saying GIVE ME MORE T3. But I am very

insecure about it. What if I can't tolerate the extra T3 cause of the low

Ferritin?

Then stop taking the extra and try again a few days later. T3 will be

back to normal agaiin the next day

>Maybe I should wait to take extra T3 til after the blood sample? I will get the

result on next Friday. It's a long time to wait though.

It's another week, if there is enough T3 in there to reduce the T4

(and the last labs indicated that) then you will be needing an

increase of around 5 a week for weeks to keep pace with the reduction

in conversion from your own T3. That is to stay put, not to relieve

hypo symptoms. As it does not represent an increase in circulating T3

then it ought to be tolerates with the existing ferritin levels but

you will have to " sneak up on it " which is why I say add more doses by

bringing the others closer together rather than increasing what is in

any dose.

That way the " spikes " are smaller but hopefully the levels won't sink

as low between doses.

Someone did a nice analogy of this. Take a big water bottle and make a

hole in the bottom that is big enough for all the content to leak out

in 24 hours.

If you took all your meds at once this would be like filling the

bottle up in one go with a big variation during the day.

Take them twice a day and you are filling the bottle up to the half

way mark twice, the levels don't vary as much.

Now start adding a small glass of water to it every couple of hours,

the levels stay more constant. If you add them more frequently then

the minimum level increases a little as you add more before it's all

drained away each time and the minimum it reaches becomes higher each

day.

I hope this makes sense

Nick

[Guest guest]

It made sense, thanks Nick. I struggled to get it though. I am very, very down now.It feels like BOOM a new wall of laziness/sleepiness hits me, like I get aboslutely NO energy at all. Typiing this takes a LOT o energy I don't have.What the heck is going on with my body. I feel like T3 only is killing me! Or they way it's done! Maybe I need much faster increases?You say increasing is no problem if I watch it - Well - If I get MORE irregular heartbeat from increasing I can just die, so I won't hjave the possibility to step down on the dose agian.Oh God this is almost like I want it to end no matter how. I don't want this anymore. My wife says I need a big change, fast.My head feels heavy, my eyelids are closing constantly, I am brathing slowly, pulse is between 70 and

85. (normla I gues) temp: 98.6 F (37.0 C) If my tem ois so good, why do I feel so shitty then? :-(Then again it could be a\something else. OVerdose of iron w/ liver failure going on, ongoing cancer for years.. Anything. It doesn't HAVE to be related to AF/Hypo and meds. It's PROBABLE, but not definite.Somebody/something give me energy and awakeness NOW!!!PS! Is eating a steak while taking T3 bad? Steak has iron in it? I did that today.Sick of it all,

>In a way it feels like my body is saying GIVE ME MORE T3. But I am very insecure about it. What if I can't tolerate the extra T3 cause of the low Ferritin?

Then stop taking the extra and try again a few days later. T3 will be

back to normal agaiin the next day

>Maybe I should wait to take extra T3 til after the blood sample? I will get the result on next Friday. It's a long time to wait though.

It's another week, if there is enough T3 in there to reduce the T4

(and the last labs indicated that) then you will be needing an

increase of around 5 a week for weeks to keep pace with the reduction

in conversion from your own T3. That is to stay put, not to relieve

hypo symptoms. As it does not represent an increase in circulating T3

then it ought to be tolerates with the existing ferritin levels but

you will have to "sneak up on it" which is why I say add more doses by

bringing the others closer together rather than increasing what is in

any dose.

That way the "spikes" are smaller but hopefully the levels won't sink

as low between doses.

Someone did a nice analogy of this. Take a big water bottle and make a

hole in the bottom that is big enough for all the content to leak out

in 24 hours.

If you took all your meds at once this would be like filling the

bottle up in one go with a big variation during the day.

Take them twice a day and you are filling the bottle up to the half

way mark twice, the levels don't vary as much.

Now start adding a small glass of water to it every couple of hours,

the levels stay more constant. If you add them more frequently then

the minimum level increases a little as you add more before it's all

drained away each time and the minimum it reaches becomes higher each

day.

I hope this makes sense

 

Nick

[Guest guest]

>What the heck is going on with my body. I feel like T3 only is killing me! Or

they way it's done! Maybe I need much faster increases?

Quite possibly as long as you can tolerate it.

When you were on 40Tw with T4 as well how long did it take you to

build up to that 40??

>You say increasing is no problem if I watch it - Well - If I get MORE irregular

heartbeat from increasing I can just die, so I won't hjave the possibility to

step down on the dose agian.

Your Doc says nothing major wrong with your heart and he's done the

tests. The fact that missing a dose made it worse is telling me

something

>Oh God this is almost like I want it to end no matter how. I don't want this

anymore. My wife says I need a big change, fast.

She may well be right

>My head feels heavy, my eyelids are closing constantly, I am brathing slowly,

pulse is between 70 and 85. (normla I gues) temp: 98.6 F (37.0 C) If my tem ois

so good, why do I feel so shitty then? :-(

That's certainly not too much T3, you should be able to tolerate more

from your reaction to missing a dose.

Nick

[Guest guest]

Seriously.. I don't think I missed that dose! Maybe, but, I doubt it now. My log said I took my 20 mcg yesterday.My GP says I have some faulty wiring and a leak in a valve, but nothing HUGE he says. Normal stuff many people live with, he says.My first specialist, which I had for 10 years, and felt good with him, gave me 40 mcg T3 and 100 mcg T4 from 2004 to 2008. Now. I don't remember how fast I went up, but not very slow! I think. . . But I am not sure.Should I increase to 25 mcg already after taking 20 mcg for 4-5 days only? And, um... Without talking to my current specialist first? :pOh, and what do I eat? I honestly feel like I can't eat "ANYTHING" - Sitting here with apiece of bread salmon, fried in olive oil, 4 slices of cucumber and 1 leaf of salad. It feels so..

Simple. And.. Too acidig? Salmon is very acidic. Hmmmmm.

>What the heck is going on with my body. I feel like T3 only is killing me! Or they way it's done! Maybe I need much faster increases?

Quite possibly as long as you can tolerate it.

When you were on 40Tw with T4 as well how long did it take you to

build up to that 40??

>You say increasing is no problem if I watch it - Well - If I get MORE irregular heartbeat from increasing I can just die, so I won't hjave the possibility to step down on the dose agian.

Your Doc says nothing major wrong with your heart and he's done the

tests. The fact that missing a dose made it worse is telling me

something

>Oh God this is almost like I want it to end no matter how. I don't want this anymore. My wife says I need a big change, fast.

She may well be right

>My head feels heavy, my eyelids are closing constantly, I am brathing slowly, pulse is between 70 and 85. (normla I gues) temp: 98.6 F (37.0 C) If my tem ois so good, why do I feel so shitty then? :-(

That's certainly not too much T3, you should be able to tolerate more

from your reaction to missing a dose.

Nick