RE: question about starting ATD's

July 15, 2002

The Zelinski Family wrote:

>

> If you remember from my previous posts he also told me it would be best and

that the ATD's are only used with pregnant people.

Funnily enough I'm coming to the conclusion that is pregnancy is

THAT important to people then surgery is probably the best bet.

> Which ATD would be the best for me to ask him to start me on?

Methimazole or Carbimazole (which is almost identical). Most

people start about 45mg daily, and drop the dose fairly quickly,

a week or two weeks, you'll know when it starts to take effect!

> In other words which one have most people had the best luck with?

Between Methimazole and Propylthiouracil I feel Methimazole

worked better for me, although I've had to abandon it through

complications, first time it was excellent.

AFAIK Methimazole is not carcinogenic either, and need only be

taken once a day, but the makers recommend twice. So 20mg on

waking 20mg on going to bed, maybe.

> Do I need him to do any lab work before starting me on this?

General thyroid function, plus antibodies (TSH, fT4, fT3, TSab),

the antibodies is just so if later you want to try coming off

the drugs you can tell if they have gone.

> How often do lab tests need to be preformed after starting the meds?

Every 6 to 8 weeks is recommended, if we adjust dose in the

middle of this the doctor pushes it back to 6 to 8 weeks to

allow TSH to adjust.

6 weeks at 40-45mg is probably too long for most people, so if

you start to feel a lot better, agree to try dropping the dose

to say 20mg after two weeks if symptoms abate.

> And what tests should be preformed?

I get TSH and fT4 at this interval, I'd prefer TSH, fT4 and fT3.

> I can tell that he has not dealt with this at all though because one of the

things he recommended that I take was a Kelp supplement! I know I will have to

tell him what to do because he is obviously clueless!

Kelp helps if I get goiter. But most people here seem to have a

problem with Iodine rich food. So this might not be a totally

daft idea - I'd wait till the ATD have taken effect and if you

still get frequent goiter, not associated with hypothyroidism,

try a Kelp tablet. Most are 100mcg of Iodine, which probably

isn't much more than the table salt you'd put on home fried

potatoes.... Don't try it whilst you are still hyper, not

without medical supervision anyway.

A protocol for drug treatment of hyperthyroidism is given at;

http://www.thyroidmanager.org/ under algorithmns

In particular this protocol uses free T4 and other measure of

conversion to regulate dose of ATD. It doesn't use TSH to

regulate drugs because TSH is unreliable when you first start

the drugs!!!!!!!!!

This web site is written by experts for doctors. Probably the

thing to do is ask whether he thinks this protocol is

appropriate, thus putting him in charge, but also simultaneously

referring him to some excellent background reading!

I don't have a good reference for the block and replace protocol

used in the Japanese studies.... I think the medical community

want some more trials showing good remission before they'll

prescribe more than the minimal amount of drugs needed to make

people stable.

Simon

July 15, 2002

Simon says:

Funnily enough I'm coming to the conclusion that is pregnancy is

THAT important to people then surgery is probably the best bet.

Simon, I have to disagree. I don't want to trade my thyroid for a baby, IF

there is a chance that I could reach remission with ATDs, or even achieve

remission through my pregnancy. I think the question of ATDs or surgery

comes to hand when a woman is running out of time to have babies and can't

take the time to see if ATDs will do the trick.

Pam B.

July 15, 2002

Hi ,

>>>When I asked him about it initially he did say he never used that

>>>treatment, and has only treated a handful of hyperthyroid patients for

which he felt RAI was the best treatment.<<<

Val, it is imperative that you get into an endo soon...leaving yourself in

the hands of someone who admittedly does not know how to treat hyper

patients will make your journey much rougher than it needs to be. I am

afraid that you will either not get enough of a dose to block your thyroid

so your body can use up the excess that is stored there now, making your

symptoms worse...

OR

that he will give you too much of your atd, not knowing how to monitor you

properly and send you spiraling into hypOhell...if you continue to be over

medicated from it, it could move you closer to myxedema coma. Doris <K9mom>

is a prime example of that and hopefully she can pop in and explain that

more to you.

>>>If you remember from my previous posts he also told me it would be best

>>>and that the ATD's are only used with pregnant people. He also told me

>>>about the side effect of a low white cell count.<<<

He is just plain wrong. More and more people are going on atd's because

they begin their research earlier in their diagnosis than what many of us

did and see the benefit of the use of them. Pregnant women are put on PTU

because it does not cross the placental barriers at tapazole or MMI does.

Is there a chance of a lowered white cell count. Yes there is a chance of

that, but it is a very small chance.

>>>After being a member of this list though, I have decided I want to try

>>>the ATD's in spite of what he has told me. I think he will do what I

>>>ask, however I want to be well informed before I ask. I did order

>>>Elaine's book and was going to wait until I read it to start treatment.

>>>I have changed my mind thought since the beta blockers are not helping

>>>much with my symptoms.<<<

I am so glad you are going to start with the atd's. It will help get all

the excess hormone in your body used up and making you feel much much better

and THEN you will be able to think so much more clearly. It is so unfair,

when we are so sick with hyper and we need to think clearly, this disease

makes that impossible. I think it would be okay to let him *start* you on

one of the atd's, but I also think you should get him to work with you on

getting you into an endocrinologist or a GP or someone who KNOWS how to

monitor us while we use the atd's. , from another group was trying to

do a total alternative treatment plan, while being monitored...she ended up

in the ER and admitted to the hospital, I believe very close to thyroid

storm <from to much hormone>...she is now using PTU and in less than two

weeks is already feeling much much better. She does have plans of

continuing her alternative approach at the same time as using the allopathic

treatment and is hoping to be on a maintenance dose of ptu before to long.

It brought her great relief.

>>>Which ATD would be the best for me to ask him to start me on? In other

>>>words which one have most people had the best luck with?<<<

I believe most of the people in this group have used tapazole or MMI, I am

on PTU and prefer that, especially since both my optho and endo have said

ptu works better and quicker on the antibodies, the autoimmune nature of our

disease. That being said, I have never tried the tap or mmi so this is just

*my* opinion. Pam L also attained remission using PTU. And Debbie R.

Jeannette <who has been in remission for 3 years last June> attained it

using tapazole I believe. All of these journies are in the archives, and I

do know how hard it is to use them when our minds are not thinking clearly.

I will try to locate some of them myself for you later on. Hoping that

Jeanette and Debbie and Pam will all pop in to update you.

If you do start out on PTU, the general starting dose is usually between

300mg and 450 mgs. a day...they are 50mg tablets, and it is extremely

important to take them EVERY 8 hours. And they taste yucky, but the taste

does lessen after a while. I have also heard of a couple of people being

put on as much as 600mg, but this dose is to be used for just a short amount

of time so you don't crash into hypo.

Others will have to give you the heads up on the tap or mmi.

>>>Do I need him to do any lab work before starting me on this?<<<

Yes, ask for a Free T3 and a Free T4 and a Liver Function Panel and White

Blood Cell count MUST, *MUST* " MUST* be done before you swallow your first

atd. No matter what atd you use. The atd's can affect the liver or lower

the wbc's but it is rare. Graves can also affect these numbers. If it is

graves that is affecting them, you will know with that first blood test.

Many doctors who push RAI, will not run this test before starting patients,

so if their liver panel or wbc is off a bit, they will tell a patient 'oh

you can't take this, it is attacking your liver, your in danger, you must

have RAI NOW...which is NOT true. They can not tell that without having

starting labs before going on the meds.

I would also ask him to run your TSI, TPO and TRAb antibodies so you have a

starting point with them. These will also help you guage where you are in

regards to remission. These can then be monitored every 4-6 months after

that.

>>>How often do lab tests need to be preformed after starting the meds?<<<

Every four weeks. After about 4/5 draws on the Liver and WBC tests, they

can do them less often...but while on atd's the Free T3 and Free T4 should

be monitored every 4 weeks until you reach a maintenance dose where you are

held euthyroid <normal levels> until you begin to wean off of them...and

weaning slowly IS the key to remission.

>>>Sorry for all of the questions, I just want to know what I am doing

>>>before I call him. I was going to make an appointment with an Endo

>>>instead, but from what I am hearing most of them want to talk you into

>>>the RAI also so I may as well just stick with my GP. I can tell that he

>>>has not dealt with this at all though because one of the things he

>>>recommended that I take was a Kelp supplement! I know I will have to

>>>tell him what to do because he is obviously clueless!<<<

Don't apologize for all the questions. It is the only way you will find the

information you need right away. And it is so hard for us to think clearly

when we are very hyper or even very hypO.

I see your explanation on why you are sticking with your GP. Use the top

docs list and see if you can find an endo in your area that you can work

with. I drive 2 hours each way for my endo, and it is so worth the drive

for me. There is nothing wrong with teaching your GP how to deal with a

graves patient, I think that is a wonderful idea. But I also think you need

to be monitored with an endo. You can tell him right up front RAI is NOT an

option for you, period, so lets get to work with the atd's. Your GP could

help you get into one immediately as an emergency patient. It concerns me

that all the beta blocker your are on is not helping with the palpatations.

here is the top doc list

http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/bldoc1.htm

Also, if you are in a bigger aread, look at hospitals and see if they have a

Head and Neck center, then call there to see if they have a head and neck

endocrinologist. That is what my endo is and she specializes in just the

endocrine system in the head and neck so she isn't preoccupied with a lot of

other things. She also does NOT do RAI except in rare circumstances

anymore, and hasn't for over 6 years. If your in the Buffalo NY area I will

be happy to share her name and number with you.

A couple of other comments for you, when you start the atd's, any of them,

you may break out in a rash and/or begin some nasty itching. This is a side

effect of the...it is NOT an allergy to them. It does go away, especially

once the body gets use to them and the dosage gets lowered. There are many

in this group who can give you and idea of how to cope with this. A lot of

pro RAI doctors will say " oh your allergic " and your not.

The last comment for you, is some people can not take one kind of the atd's

but do just fine on the other one. Just so you are aware of that.

Take care, and I am so glad you are going to begin treatment with the atd's!

I think it is important for you to get on them very very quickly.

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

July 15, 2002

,

Your doctor, in my mind, is just about worse than no doctor at all. Allowing

you to continue hyper to the extent you obviously are, might just push you

to thyroid storm. No beta blocker, taken alone, will keep that from

happening. The doc is pushing you to the edge, and your ability to think

straight and make good decisions for yourself are compromised.

Case in point- you said:

I was going to make an appointment with an Endo

> instead, but from what I am hearing most of them want to talk you into the RAI

> also so I may as well just stick with my GP.

This is NOT true. A GOOD endo will not push you to RAI; any endo that wants

to do so while you are completely hyper is not a good endo. You have a GP

that doesn't know the first thing about GD, and it is NOT safe for your

health to continue seeing only this uninformed doctor! ATD's are NOT just

used for pregnant people! What a statement, I can't believe it came from a

doctor! Low white blood cell count is a rare side-effect. In fact so rare, I

don't even remember anyone on this list mentioning having it happen--and

they monitor you for that closely, anyway. If it happens you stop the ATD.

I have been on methimazole (tapazole generic) for pretty much the last 7

years. I have had no bad side effects from it at all. Others here have been

on PTU, as well. Both drugs work. The methimazole gives you (from my

understanding of PTU, not experience of it) less ups and downs in the course

of the day because it has a slower half-life. PTU (again, from reading here)

needs to be taken every 8 hours. It is also described here as being horribly

bitter, and I have read that in some people it has the side-effect of

lessening ones sense of taste--something I don't want to chance as I am in

the food business. PTU is, however, the drug of choice if you want to get

pregnant.

To cut to the chase here, I think that you need to immediately find an endo

or at least a doctor well-versed in treating GD. There is a top doc list on

Shomon's site that may be of help to you. You need to tell the new

doc's office what your symptoms are and this is a dire emergency, and you

MUST be seen quickly. Screen the doctor with some questions--experience with

GD rather than primarily a diabetes doc-but know that NO doctor can force

you into RAI, it's your decision.

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:58:15 -0500

> To: " Graves support group " <graves_support >

> Subject: question about starting ATD's

>

> My Dr. started me on propranolol last week to control my palpitations and help

> me sleep. We have doubled my dosage 1 40mg. tablet 4 times a day now, and it

> still is not working. After not sleeping all night last night and dealing

> with these palpitations all night, I have decided to call him today and ask

> him to start me on ATD's. When I asked him about it initially he did say he

> never used that treatment, and has only treated a handful of hyperthyroid

> patients for which he felt RAI was the best treatment. If you remember from

> my previous posts he also told me it would be best and that the ATD's are only

> used with pregnant people. He also told me about the side effect of a low

> white cell count. After being a member of this list though, I have decided I

> want to try the ATD's in spite of what he has told me. I think he will do

> what I ask, however I want to be well informed before I ask. I did order

> Elaine's book and was going to wait until I read it to start treatment. !

> I have changed my mind thought since the beta blockers are not helping much

> with my symptoms. Which ATD would be the best for me to ask him to start me

> on? In other words which one have most people had the best luck with? Do I

> need him to do any lab work before starting me on this? How often do lab

> tests need to be preformed after starting the meds? And what tests should be

> preformed? Sorry for all of the questions, I just want to know what I am

> doing before I call him. I was going to make an appointment with an Endo

> instead, but from what I am hearing most of them want to talk you into the RAI

> also so I may as well just stick with my GP. I can tell that he has not dealt

> with this at all though because one of the things he recommended that I take

> was a Kelp supplement! I know I will have to tell him what to do because he

> is obviously clueless!

>

> Thanks for your help,

>

July 15, 2002

Terry, that is my story too. My doc wouldn't give me ATDs, I was scared to

death of Endos from everything I was reading on the boards, so went from

internist to internist to GP to GP before I found one that would work with

me. Not that she would give me ATDs either, but at least she gave me a

referral to a ND where started my herbal ATDs. I'm just now, 8 months

later, starting to realize that not all endos are bad. My first appointment

with one is in 9 days.

Pam B.

July 15, 2002

Pam Brisse wrote:

>

> starting to realize that not all endos are bad.

I had a very good one - but I moved

I agree with Terry this doctor is a liability, a good endo is

essential, but meanwhile this doctor can prescribe ATDs - which

until they are available over the counter.....

July 15, 2002

Hi Pam B.

Why would none of those doctors give you any of the atd's? Was it because

they are RAI peddlers? When a patient is hyper, RAI is not safe at all and

can lead, very easily, to thyroid storm so ATD's are used to bring us into a

more level place prior to RAI FIRST to avoid the storm. If these doctors

are refusing all treatment but one, then they should be turned into medical

boards across this country for medical NEGLECT, not malpractice.

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

July 15, 2002

Hi Jody, no, it was because they wouldn't commit to what was wrong with me

and all insisted I do the RA uptake and scan, which I was refusing, and none

would run the antibodies like I was reading on the board and Elaine's book.

The last one is the only one who would run the antibody tests, but still

didn't give me a diagnoses, just a " let's wait and see " . I'd been waiting

and seeing for 5 months by then. They can all blame it on me for refusing

their recommendation for a scan.

If I'd only had a doctor I'd trusted BEFORE I got sick... I'm sure it would

be a different story. Trying to find a doctor while hyper and messed up in

the head because of hormones is one of the worst experiences in my life so

far.

I will still refuse the scan if this new endo insists on it. No one can tell

me what I need it for when I've had an ultrasound and antibodies run

already. Yes, I'm stubborn, it's going to take a lot of convincing,

especially since I'm now allergic to iodine and am pretty sure an iodine

contrast dye started this " thyroid toxicosis " that am diagnosed with. You

know, I've never had a diagnosis given to me, but just got my referral paper

for the endo and that is what my " diagnosis " was, according to the paper.

Pam B.

RE: question about starting ATD's

Hi Pam B.

Why would none of those doctors give you any of the atd's? Was it because

they are RAI peddlers? When a patient is hyper, RAI is not safe at all and

can lead, very easily, to thyroid storm so ATD's are used to bring us into a

more level place prior to RAI FIRST to avoid the storm. If these doctors

are refusing all treatment but one, then they should be turned into medical

boards across this country for medical NEGLECT, not malpractice.

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

-------------------------------------

The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

----------------------------------------

DISCLAIMER

Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement

of

the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

July 15, 2002

HI Pam,

>>>I will still refuse the scan if this new endo insists on it. No one can

>>>tell me what I need it for when I've had an ultrasound and antibodies run

>>>already.<<<

If you have had the ultrasound and they saw nothing to be concerned with, ie

hot or cold nodules, and the antibody testing, I do not understand why they

want to continue to push for a scan <sigh> Maybe they are just addicted to

that radioactive waste material, or get kick backs for using even this type.

Who knows...and I don't think your stubborn at all..I think you are very

intelligent, caring and know your body better than anyone else. You are a

wonderful example for new people with the amount of research you do and

share with everyone!

JOdy

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

July 15, 2002

Thanks Jody, I'm nervous about my endo appointment, can you tell? I feel

like I'm getting all defensive all over again. I'd better knock it off or

I'll be real hyper again for my visit. I just hope he can give me a real

diagnosis and then just tells me to keep up what I'm doing with the

alternative stuff!

Pam B.

July 15, 2002

Pam

Do you have a good source I can look at for info

on herbal ATD's? I am going nuts waiting for my

doc to refer me to an endo and I would really

like to do something to stave off this dizziness.

Kit

--- Pam Brisse wrote:

> Terry, that is my story too. My doc wouldn't

> give me ATDs, I was scared to

> death of Endos from everything I was reading on

> the boards, so went from

> internist to internist to GP to GP before I

> found one that would work with

> me. Not that she would give me ATDs either, but

> at least she gave me a

> referral to a ND where started my herbal ATDs.

> I'm just now, 8 months

> later, starting to realize that not all endos

> are bad. My first appointment

> with one is in 9 days.

>

> Pam B.

>

__________________________________________________

July 15, 2002

Hi Kit, I get mine through my naturopath. I wouldn't recommend doing it on

your own, they are just as powerful as prescription ATDs and you should be

monitored by a doctor. My story is online here if you want to get an idea of

some of the alternative stuff available: http://www.webmosaics.com/thryoid

There are links on there to the herbs I'm talking about: bugleweed, lemon

balm, motherwort.

I hope you find some relief soon,

Pam B.

RE: question about starting ATD's

Pam

Do you have a good source I can look at for info

on herbal ATD's? I am going nuts waiting for my

doc to refer me to an endo and I would really

like to do something to stave off this dizziness.

Kit

July 15, 2002

Thanks Pam, but your link didn't work. It is

funny you mentioned lemon balm and motherwort. I

have lemon balm in my garden and I think I saw

motherwort growing in a weed patch next door!

But yes, I will be careful.

Kit

--- Pam Brisse wrote:

> Hi Kit, I get mine through my naturopath. I

> wouldn't recommend doing it on

> your own, they are just as powerful as

> prescription ATDs and you should be

> monitored by a doctor. My story is online here

> if you want to get an idea of

> some of the alternative stuff available:

> http://www.webmosaics.com/thryoid

> There are links on there to the herbs I'm

> talking about: bugleweed, lemon

> balm, motherwort.

>

> I hope you find some relief soon,

>

> Pam B.

>

> RE: question about

> starting ATD's

>

> Pam

> Do you have a good source I can look at for

> info

> on herbal ATD's? I am going nuts waiting for

> my

> doc to refer me to an endo and I would really

> like to do something to stave off this

> dizziness.

>

> Kit

>

__________________________________________________

July 15, 2002

sorry, typed too fast. here it is: http://www.webmosaics.com/thyroid/

July 15, 2002

HI Pam,

I am always *geared* up before an endo appointment, ready for an arguement

and it never happens LOL...I think the world of my endo, she is wonderful,

and I know if she made me quit doing something, it would only be, because

she thinks I may be making unnecessary risks.

So...get the 'committeee' out of session...you know the one, making all the

plausible arguments inside your head of all the different scenerio's that

*could* happen, and just roll with the flow. You have been educating

yourself greatly over the last few months, you are ready...you just haven't

had to be yet.

And, if worse case scenerio <RAI pushing> whip out the contract, then come

back and vent to us. We will all understand!

*HUGZ* and BREATHE!

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

July 15, 2002

Kit,

Pam is right, until you know what your dealing with, taking something herbal

may mask the problem and keep them from diagnosing you. The dx is important

so you know what to do.

Take care,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

July 15, 2002

Jody Spitale wrote:

>

> I am always *geared* up before an endo appointment, ready for an arguement

> and it never happens LOL...I think the world of my endo, she is wonderful,

> and I know if she made me quit doing something, it would only be, because

> she thinks I may be making unnecessary risks.

Hehe - that is mostly Grave's I suspect.

Funny thing is I never felt this way with my previous endo, he

radiated trust and confidence in his manner. But then looking

back I think he might have been fighting the system to get me

surgery instead of RAI. He never said as much, and always gave

me the impression either would do, and then squeezed me in with

their most experienced surgeon just before the surgeon retired -

hmm....

July 15, 2002

Pam,

Just hang in there, I hope after wife visit from the endo appointment this week.

I can give you some good news.

Pam Brisse wrote: Thanks Jody, I'm nervous about my endo

appointment, can you tell? I feel

like I'm getting all defensive all over again. I'd better knock it off or

I'll be real hyper again for my visit. I just hope he can give me a real

diagnosis and then just tells me to keep up what I'm doing with the

alternative stuff!

Pam B.

-------------------------------------

The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not intended

to replace expert medical care.

Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

----------------------------------------

DISCLAIMER

Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement of

the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

------

July 15, 2002

Pam,

It's hard to understand how, by Western medical standards, so many doctors

can drop such a big ball! I fought taking ATD's until I realized that I had

no choice--but my GP referred me to an endo immediately when routine blood

work showed up hyper. She wouldn't prescribe, because she felt like there

were more possible diagnoses than one (my mom had thyroid cancer when much

younger than I am now), but made sure I got into the endo's office

immediately.

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:49:14 -0700

> To: <graves_support >

> Subject: RE: question about starting ATD's

>

> Terry, that is my story too. My doc wouldn't give me ATDs, I was scared to

> death of Endos from everything I was reading on the boards, so went from

> internist to internist to GP to GP before I found one that would work with

> me. Not that she would give me ATDs either, but at least she gave me a

> referral to a ND where started my herbal ATDs. I'm just now, 8 months

> later, starting to realize that not all endos are bad. My first appointment

> with one is in 9 days.

>

> Pam B.

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

> intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>

July 15, 2002

Pam,

I missed most of this thread, but gather you're trying for that elusive

diagnosis!?

I was truly cautioned by my Mayo Clinic doc that many doctors think in terms

of graves OR hashimotos, whereas more accurately more and more often

(according to Dr. Gorum) people present with autoimmune thyroid disease in

which they demonstrate symptoms of both hashis and graves, and indeed, a

situation in which people move between hypo and hyperthyroidism. He

encouraged me, as someone with antibodies for both and therefore, a bit more

easily 'proven' to fall into that swing camp -- he encouraged me to think of

myself as having an autimmune disease which made it difficult for my thyroid

to find that 'eurothyroid' spot on its own, without medical help. Finally,

he predicted that someday the categories of Graves and Hashimotos would

themselves collapse into a single disease autoimmune thyroid classification.

That said, the knowledge produced by the top research doctors in teh country

and their interrogation of disease categories is generally far ahead of the

doctor in the field, so to speak.

Good luck!!!

B

RE: question about starting ATD's

> Thanks Jody, I'm nervous about my endo appointment, can you tell? I feel

> like I'm getting all defensive all over again. I'd better knock it off or

> I'll be real hyper again for my visit. I just hope he can give me a real

> diagnosis and then just tells me to keep up what I'm doing with the

> alternative stuff!

>

> Pam B.

>

> -------------------------------------

> The Graves' list is intended for informational purposes only and is not

intended to replace expert medical care.

> Please consult your doctor before changing or trying new treatments.

> ----------------------------------------

> DISCLAIMER

>

> Advertisments placed on this yahoo groups list do not have the endorsement

of

> the listowner. I have no input as to what ads are attached to emails.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------

>

July 15, 2002

Hi , yes, that is how I've been explaining it to people too - " I have an

autoimmune disease that right now is making my thyroid produce too much

hormone, but probably in the future it will have a problem making enough,

blah blah blah " . I have both antibodies too.

The problem comes in when you have a doctor that doesn't want to treat you

without a definitive diagnosis. That was about the gist of the thread, you

didn't miss anything At this point I really don't care if I get a label

to put on my disease - it's my GP who wants the visit to the endo, not me,

and I'm wondering what additional tests they are going to try to make me do,

and what they are going to tell me to do once they have a so called

diagnosis. I'm perfectly content with what I know now and what path I'm

choosing to follow to heal.

Going off on a tangent, it's amazing how many people, when you are trying to

explain to them what autoimmune thyroid disease is, will say " Oh, like

AIDS? " . People really don't know what an autoimmune disease even is. Or

AIDS obviously either.

:)Pam B.

July 15, 2002

Wow.

Great site, you worked hard on it and did a

wonderful job. Your story is very enlightening

as well. Good luck, I know your journey is not

over yet.

Kit

--- Pam Brisse wrote:

> sorry, typed too fast. here it is:

> http://www.webmosaics.com/thyroid/

>

__________________________________________________

July 16, 2002

Jody,

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions so thoroughly. I

am printing out your email and will take it with me to my Dr.s appt. on

Thursday. I am going to take your advice and consult with an Endo. I am

planning to ask for copies of my labs and uptake scan when I see my GP. I

forgot to mention also that when I told him about the ongoing palpitations and

sleeplessness he prescribed Ambien for me. I have not taken it, but did take

some Valerian Root last night to help me sleep better.

-

~For Excellent Educational and Children's Books ~visit my site below:

http://www.ubah.com/D1226

Re: question about starting ATD's