Re: Slow Release t3 BID

January 20, 2010

>Many people only take it once a day, which wouldn't work for me at all! It

might be you feel it run out because it doesn't last long enough or you maybe

just need to try adding the increase to your AM dose. I don't think you would

HAVE to make the doses equal; as with everything else here, it is sometimes just

trial and error. :-)

>

> Kathleen

I hate to mess with what works. I can feel the first dose of 60mcg running out

by 4:30 pm, so I would agree with you. I don't want to take more than necessary

for the second dose, so I will experiment to see if I can lower the evening

dose. Actually if I take SR 7.5mcg at 4:30pm, I come right back up. Maybe thats

all I need. Will have to work towards that and see how that feels in the

morning.

Thanks for your input,

Cougarena

January 20, 2010

Whatever works, I say! :-)

But it's interesting that you say you can take 7.5 @ 4 pm and come " right back

up. " If it's time release, it seems like it wouldn't hit you so fast, you know?

I've always thought that the sr was releasing way faster in me than it is

supposed to! I mean, how much am I getting as soon as I take it? 20% 50% The

pharmacy told me that 20-30% is supposed to release over the first 2-3 hours,

but who knows with an individual. And then, since I am a constant grazer, I

wonder how that affects things, too. Maybe that's why I feel it hit me in the

AM, because my stomach is actually empty then.

But I love the concept of it and if it works for you, I think it would be great

and soooo much easier to take. :=)

>

> >Many people only take it once a day, which wouldn't work for me at all! It

might be you feel it run out because it doesn't last long enough or you maybe

just need to try adding the increase to your AM dose. I don't think you would

HAVE to make the doses equal; as with everything else here, it is sometimes just

trial and error. :-)

> >

> > Kathleen

>

> I hate to mess with what works. I can feel the first dose of 60mcg running

out by 4:30 pm, so I would agree with you. I don't want to take more than

necessary for the second dose, so I will experiment to see if I can lower the

evening dose. Actually if I take SR 7.5mcg at 4:30pm, I come right back up.

Maybe thats all I need. Will have to work towards that and see how that feels

in the morning.

>

> Thanks for your input,

> Cougarena

>

January 22, 2010

When I was first taking SRT3, I also eventually discovered I needed to take it

every 8 hours. Now that my T3 levels are high enough and stabilized, and have

been for long enough for my RT3 to clear, I seem to have enough T3 in my system

that I only need to take it twice a day, and NOT exactly 12 hours apart: 50mcg

at 8am and 37.5mcg at bedtime at 11pm or midnight. Works for me.

I think I read somewhere on this board that at the beginning when we don't have

enough T3 our bodies use up what we give it pretty quickly. Once enough has

built up in our blood, the T3 we take in pills doesn't get used up as quickly,

so doesn't have to be taken as often. Possibly I got that wrong, but that

seems to be what happened for me.

I had actually initially started with one dose in the am (based on doctor's

advice before I found this board), and felt DRAMATICALLY better after splitting

up the dose to include some in the afternoon and at bedtime. Normally (i.e., in

people's bodies who really don't have any thyroid problems), FT3 levels don't

change much at all over the course of the day, to the extent that they do, they

are highest at around midnight to 2am.

I've had doctors told me it was " dangerous " to take T3 at night and I think

they're full of it. I do think, though, that if someone's cortisol dosing isn't

quite right, they might not have enough cortisol to handle the T3 at night and

THAT might disrupt sleep, but that would be a cortisol problem, not a T3

problem. It's normal to have the same amount, or more, of T3 in your system at

midnight as when you wake up in the morning.

The pharmacist where I get my SRT3 (ITC) said that 30-50% is released right

away, and the remainder over the next 12 hours, though I definitely felt mine

wearing off after 8 hours in the beginning. I'm sure that varies with different

pharmacies, based on fillers and strength of the T3, and probably varies also

for each person. I know SRT3 hasn't worked well or at all for many people on

this board, but it worked for me, and got my FT3 levels up, so in this case I

stuck with it.

> >

> > >Many people only take it once a day, which wouldn't work for me at all! It

might be you feel it run out because it doesn't last long enough or you maybe

just need to try adding the increase to your AM dose. I don't think you would

HAVE to make the doses equal; as with everything else here, it is sometimes just

trial and error. :-)

> > >

> > > Kathleen

> >

> > I hate to mess with what works. I can feel the first dose of 60mcg running

out by 4:30 pm, so I would agree with you. I don't want to take more than

necessary for the second dose, so I will experiment to see if I can lower the

evening dose. Actually if I take SR 7.5mcg at 4:30pm, I come right back up.

Maybe thats all I need. Will have to work towards that and see how that feels

in the morning.

> >

> > Thanks for your input,

> > Cougarena

> >

>

January 22, 2010

Thanks for all that info, ! Are you going to a Fibro Fatigue Clinic doc,

because I went there before and I know they use ITC. The doctor there also told

me not to take t3 at night because it could affect my sleep, but I agree totally

with what you say about t3 at night.

My doc uses SR, although he did tell me I could keep taking Cytomel if I wanted

to. (He doesn't know I actually use Mexican Cynomel, lol.) I asked him if all

his patients take the SR in the AM, because it never worked well for me that

way, and he said they did. I don't know how they can manage! Or maybe they don't

and end up on way too low a dose because that's all they can handle in the AM.

What the ITC pharmacist said about 30 -50% releasing right away, that's what it

feels like to me, too, in spite of what I was told. It also makes sense why I

felt like crap when I tried to take one big dose in the AM.

That's great you only have to take it twice a day. That's what always makes me

keep thinking about switching to SR as I have to dose frequently right now

(probably because of what you theorized below) and it is a pain to be sure. But

finding the right dose of SR...how did you go about it, if I may ask? You don't

find that your meals block the absorption later in the day? I used to think it,

but I likely just needed the afternoon dose then, you think?

Thanks you so much,

Kathleen

>

> When I was first taking SRT3, I also eventually discovered I needed to take it

every 8 hours. Now that my T3 levels are high enough and stabilized, and have

been for long enough for my RT3 to clear, I seem to have enough T3 in my system

that I only need to take it twice a day, and NOT exactly 12 hours apart: 50mcg

at 8am and 37.5mcg at bedtime at 11pm or midnight. Works for me.

>

> I think I read somewhere on this board that at the beginning when we don't

have enough T3 our bodies use up what we give it pretty quickly. Once enough

has built up in our blood, the T3 we take in pills doesn't get used up as

quickly, so doesn't have to be taken as often. Possibly I got that wrong, but

that seems to be what happened for me.

>

> I had actually initially started with one dose in the am (based on doctor's

advice before I found this board), and felt DRAMATICALLY better after splitting

up the dose to include some in the afternoon and at bedtime. Normally (i.e., in

people's bodies who really don't have any thyroid problems), FT3 levels don't

change much at all over the course of the day, to the extent that they do, they

are highest at around midnight to 2am.

>

> I've had doctors told me it was " dangerous " to take T3 at night and I think

they're full of it. I do think, though, that if someone's cortisol dosing isn't

quite right, they might not have enough cortisol to handle the T3 at night and

THAT might disrupt sleep, but that would be a cortisol problem, not a T3

problem. It's normal to have the same amount, or more, of T3 in your system at

midnight as when you wake up in the morning.

>

> The pharmacist where I get my SRT3 (ITC) said that 30-50% is released right

away, and the remainder over the next 12 hours, though I definitely felt mine

wearing off after 8 hours in the beginning. I'm sure that varies with different

pharmacies, based on fillers and strength of the T3, and probably varies also

for each person. I know SRT3 hasn't worked well or at all for many people on

this board, but it worked for me, and got my FT3 levels up, so in this case I

stuck with it.

>

January 22, 2010

Hi Kathleen,

Yep, I have been going to FFC. I feel like they got me started in the right

direction--that they actually introduced me to the concept of reverse T3 and

adrenal fatigue and introduced me to ITC and their good-quality SRT3. BUT I

have become really disenchanted with the details of their protocol and the

rigidity of their treatment program.

It was a doc there, someone pretty high up in the food chain of their corporate

structure, who suggested T3 at night was " dangerous. " As soon as doctors use

the word " dangerous " for anything that isn't a) potentially fatal or

potentially causing permanent damage of some sort, I really lose respect for

them. I believe I referred in a earlier post awhile back to getting out my

doctor ridiculousnes meter.

Apparently my very own chart came up in a random audit at one of the FFC

conferences and there was a whole brouhaha about whether T3 at night was safe,

originating from someone at the top. My own doctor conveyed this to me, and I

offered research about T3 levels being constant through the day (including one

study recommended by Val) but--no interest in the research studies. I do feel

that their corporate structure makes their treatment program less flexible and

less responsive to both patients' particularities and to learning new

information.

I think you're absolutely right that people who take that one-time dose in the

am just don't end up taking a high enough dose to feel well. Seems like most of

us with bad RT3 issues also have adrenal fatigue so can't tolerate all that T3

at one time. My doctor thought I was OK at 37.5mcg while I still spent plenty

of days in bed! That's when I started looking for info elsewhere. Someday when

my adrenals are healed I'll try the once a day dose, but not now.

How I got to my right dose was really a lot of trial and error. I followed the

directions pretty much from this board. Increased by 12.5mcg every 7-10 days,

monitored pulse & temperature & symptoms & blood work, stopped and went back

when had problems, and figured out what the problem was. (someone correct me if

I got that wrong...) I had some roadblocks: low ferritin and not enough

cortisol, and the SR HC from ITC did NOT work for me--I had to go to regular HC

on a schedule. Last I checked, my FT3 was about 550 (or 5.5, depending on units

of measurement), and RT3 was minimal, ratio plenty good. Also basal temps now

are always between 97.9 & 98.2, going up and down slightly with my monthly

cycle.

To increase I just bought empty gelcaps and combined different amounts of SRT3

capsules that I already had to get what I wanted. i.e., 1/3 of a 37.5mcg cap

combined with all of another 37.5 cap = 50mcg, more or less. At each visit I

presented my doctor with a fait accompli, and since it was so completely clear

from my symptoms, vitals & bloodwork that I wasn't taking too much T3, I always

got the prescriptions with the actual amount of T3 I asked for after doing the

experiments, including the two sets of capsules to split the dose.

I've been on my current dose at least 5 or 6 months, with experiments in either

direction that resulted in either hypo or hyper symptoms, so I think I'm OK now.

this board is a really great resource for sorting out all the details and I am

very grateful for it.

I don't really know about the food and T3 absorption. ITC says to take SRT3 on

an empty stomach, but the T3 in SRT3 is exactly the same chemically as what's in

cytomel, and from what I understand the cytomel package insert says it's ok to

take with food. (don't know for sure, never tried it). I asked the ITC

pharmacist about this, and he said that because T4 and T3 are both made of

iodine, and that T3 simply has one less iodine molecule, if T4 has to be taken

without food, why would one less iodine molecule in T3 mean T3 could be taken

with food? I'm a math and spatial relationships girl, not a chemistry girl, so

haven't a clue about how that works. He also said that as far as SRT3 not being

blocked by food later in the day, he said that so long as the SRT3 is taken in

advance of food, it would continue to stay ahead of the food in the digestive

tract. Again, I haven't a clue about how this works so really can't evaluate

it. I really don't take anyone's word for anything any more unless I can get

some research or explanation or experience or something to back it up.

In my case, I take T3 first thing when waking up (empty stomach) and bedtime

(small snack or nothing), and when I took a third dose, took it around 4-5pm

before dinner. So honestly I don't really know that much about or understand

the mechanism of food or no food & T3 absorption. Also, it seems like the

strength of the ITC T3 is pretty good, so *might* be closer, numbers-wise, to

the total dose you take of cytomel than other compounding pharmacies whose T3 is

weaker. I wasn't taking any thyroid medication at all before the SRT3, so I

don't have anything else in my case to compare it to.

I'll tell ya though, I've had it up to my eyeballs with FFC. I'm working on

finding another doctor who will prescribe the T3 and HC. It's just such a

project, and now that I'm on my way to feeling better I'd really rather be doing

other things than finding another doctor.

> >

> > When I was first taking SRT3, I also eventually discovered I needed to take

it every 8 hours. Now that my T3 levels are high enough and stabilized, and

have been for long enough for my RT3 to clear, I seem to have enough T3 in my

system that I only need to take it twice a day, and NOT exactly 12 hours apart:

50mcg at 8am and 37.5mcg at bedtime at 11pm or midnight. Works for me.

> >

> > I think I read somewhere on this board that at the beginning when we don't

have enough T3 our bodies use up what we give it pretty quickly. Once enough

has built up in our blood, the T3 we take in pills doesn't get used up as

quickly, so doesn't have to be taken as often. Possibly I got that wrong, but

that seems to be what happened for me.

> >

> > I had actually initially started with one dose in the am (based on doctor's

advice before I found this board), and felt DRAMATICALLY better after splitting

up the dose to include some in the afternoon and at bedtime. Normally (i.e., in

people's bodies who really don't have any thyroid problems), FT3 levels don't

change much at all over the course of the day, to the extent that they do, they

are highest at around midnight to 2am.

> >

> > I've had doctors told me it was " dangerous " to take T3 at night and I think

they're full of it. I do think, though, that if someone's cortisol dosing isn't

quite right, they might not have enough cortisol to handle the T3 at night and

THAT might disrupt sleep, but that would be a cortisol problem, not a T3

problem. It's normal to have the same amount, or more, of T3 in your system at

midnight as when you wake up in the morning.

> >

> > The pharmacist where I get my SRT3 (ITC) said that 30-50% is released right

away, and the remainder over the next 12 hours, though I definitely felt mine

wearing off after 8 hours in the beginning. I'm sure that varies with different

pharmacies, based on fillers and strength of the T3, and probably varies also

for each person. I know SRT3 hasn't worked well or at all for many people on

this board, but it worked for me, and got my FT3 levels up, so in this case I

stuck with it.

> >

>

January 23, 2010

Thank you for sharing that, . It's so helpful. And I'm so thrilled you're

feeling better. That's too bad about how FCC works and the problems you're

having with them. I'm not sure how to find a doctor to prescribe t3 unless

you're willing to travel or switch to Cynomel and self treat, which why would

you when you feel good now on the SR. At least you can easily get HC yourself

and self treat that.

I actually started seeing a doc from Holtorf in December. I didn't go there for

help with t3 and HC because I pretty much knew by then that this board would be

able to help more with that than they could, lol. And that's been true. I went

there because I am pretty sure that a lot of my inability to tolerate t3 for any

period of time, in spite of plenty of HC, is due to viruses or other latent

infections. And I couldn't get anyone where I live to treat me. Plus, I knew

Holtorf WOULD let me stay on t3 and HC.

I don't think they have to answer to some corporate head like the FCC, and

although the protocol tends to be similar I think, my doctor seemed fairly open.

For example, I had just restarted t3, so he wanted me to wait on that a few

months before starting anti-viral therapy, but he didn't say I *couldn't*. Also,

he showed me their checklist of available therapies and pretty much told me

they'd try anything to get people functional again, even if it just came down to

stab in the dark if nothing else was working. He gave me some patient examples

of that.

I went ahead and started some of the viral therapy on my own, just immune

modulaters at this time.

I'm still at the stage of trying to get the darn t3 and HC right! I stopped the

SR the doc gave me because I couldn't seem to get it right and it was making me

feel much worse -- but I was taking in all in the A.M., so I'm tempted to try

again. But then I think, well, I have to take HC 4 times a day so what's the

diff?

How much SR were you taking when you decided to split it into 3 doses? And then

when you increased by the 12.5 (which is how much I was told to increase by my

doc, too), did you split that up as well,or just add it all to one of the 3

doses?

Sorry for all the questions, but you've been very helpful to me and I appreciate

it.

BTW, I think the pharmacist might be wrong about t4 and t3 absorption. I don't

know why they are different but there are studies showing that is the case,

albeit maybe no one knows exactly WHY. But that is interesting about the t3

staying ahead of the food. I always wondered why you had to take it 1 hour

before eating if it was slow releasing anyway (which I asuumed meant it was

mixing in with the food), but if it does stay ahead of the food in the digestive

tract, then that would actually make sense why you have to take it on an empty

stomach.

The problem with me is that I'm a grazer, lol. I rarely have an empty stomach

once I eat breakfast. So taking things on waking is fine, I can wait an hour to

eat. But after that, forget it! I for sure never have an empty stomach when I go

to bed.

Thanks,

Kathleen

>

> Hi Kathleen,

>

> Yep, I have been going to FFC. I feel like they got me started in the right

direction--that they actually introduced me to the concept of reverse T3 and

adrenal fatigue and introduced me to ITC and their good-quality SRT3. BUT I

have become really disenchanted with the details of their protocol and the

rigidity of their treatment program.

>

> It was a doc there, someone pretty high up in the food chain of their

corporate structure, who suggested T3 at night was " dangerous. " As soon as

doctors use the word " dangerous " for anything that isn't a) potentially fatal or

potentially causing permanent damage of some sort, I really lose respect for

them. I believe I referred in a earlier post awhile back to getting out my

doctor ridiculousnes meter.

>

> Apparently my very own chart came up in a random audit at one of the FFC

conferences and there was a whole brouhaha about whether T3 at night was safe,

originating from someone at the top. My own doctor conveyed this to me, and I

offered research about T3 levels being constant through the day (including one

study recommended by Val) but--no interest in the research studies. I do feel

that their corporate structure makes their treatment program less flexible and

less responsive to both patients' particularities and to learning new

information.

>

> I think you're absolutely right that people who take that one-time dose in the

am just don't end up taking a high enough dose to feel well. Seems like most of

us with bad RT3 issues also have adrenal fatigue so can't tolerate all that T3

at one time. My doctor thought I was OK at 37.5mcg while I still spent plenty

of days in bed! That's when I started looking for info elsewhere. Someday when

my adrenals are healed I'll try the once a day dose, but not now.

>

> How I got to my right dose was really a lot of trial and error. I followed

the directions pretty much from this board. Increased by 12.5mcg every 7-10

days, monitored pulse & temperature & symptoms & blood work, stopped and went

back when had problems, and figured out what the problem was. (someone correct

me if I got that wrong...) I had some roadblocks: low ferritin and not enough

cortisol, and the SR HC from ITC did NOT work for me--I had to go to regular HC

on a schedule. Last I checked, my FT3 was about 550 (or 5.5, depending on units

of measurement), and RT3 was minimal, ratio plenty good. Also basal temps now

are always between 97.9 & 98.2, going up and down slightly with my monthly

cycle.

>

> To increase I just bought empty gelcaps and combined different amounts of SRT3

capsules that I already had to get what I wanted. i.e., 1/3 of a 37.5mcg cap

combined with all of another 37.5 cap = 50mcg, more or less. At each visit I

presented my doctor with a fait accompli, and since it was so completely clear

from my symptoms, vitals & bloodwork that I wasn't taking too much T3, I always

got the prescriptions with the actual amount of T3 I asked for after doing the

experiments, including the two sets of capsules to split the dose.

>

> I've been on my current dose at least 5 or 6 months, with experiments in

either direction that resulted in either hypo or hyper symptoms, so I think I'm

OK now. this board is a really great resource for sorting out all the details

and I am very grateful for it.

>

> I don't really know about the food and T3 absorption. ITC says to take SRT3

on an empty stomach, but the T3 in SRT3 is exactly the same chemically as what's

in cytomel, and from what I understand the cytomel package insert says it's ok

to take with food. (don't know for sure, never tried it). I asked the ITC