Re: Die Off - 3 plus months

[Guest guest]

>

> I have had a miserable couple of weeks.  I don't know if I have a die off or

problems

from Celexa which I have been taking for about 3 weeks now.  My internist said

this is not

a symptom of Celexa.   I have very urgent d several times a day and some

indigestion.  It

makes it very difficult at work.  This weekend I had visitors and I couldn't

even go out for a

walk or to dinner with them for fear of what might happen.  I am thinking of

staying home

for Thanksgiving also for same fear. 

>  

> I've been so good on this diet for over 3 months now and right now I am so

depressed. 

Please let me know if you think this could be a die off and how long will it

last. 

It sounds like it is probably the 3 month flare, which consists of moving

backwards and

reversing progress for a certain period of time. What seems to trigger it is

that all the

easy to kill bacteria has died off, and in the interim, some other bacterium/a

starts to

become aggressive and starts a new round of inflammation, so once again you have

to

balance out your gut ecology. It's typical for UC people.

What you should do is go back to basics - the intro diet and whatever food is

really easy

digestively for you. It may help to reduce honey and other fructose for a

while.

(grapes/pears/dates, etc.) Or if you have other trigger foods, get off them.

Mara

[Guest guest]

Mara,

I don't remember reading in BTVC about syptoms of a flare

corresponding to a 3 month die- off. I read the posts and it seems

like any little symptom seems to be attributed to die-off.

I had a flare 3 months-ish after starting SCD, but I know why..... I

felt so good I ate everything and anything and went off my meds

(just a little denial).

And my question is how do you know that this is typical for UC

people? Can you direct me to some more in depth reading or

documentation, please? Die -off is a real phenomenon, I just don't

know if we should attribute every upset, setback and flare to die-off

or should we scrutinize our diet/lifestyle.

Thanks for your time,

Terry

UC diagnosed June2008

Lialda

> >

> > I have had a miserable couple of weeks.  I don't know if I have a

die off or problems

> from Celexa which I have been taking for about 3 weeks now.  My

internist said this is not

>

>

> It sounds like it is probably the 3 month flare, which consists of

moving backwards and

> reversing progress for a certain period of time. What seems to

trigger it is that all the

> easy to kill bacteria has died off, and in the interim, some other

bacterium/a starts to

> become aggressive and starts a new round of inflammation, so once

again you have to

> balance out your gut ecology. It's typical for UC people.

>

> What you should do is go back to basics - the intro diet and

whatever food is really easy

> digestively for you. It may help to reduce honey and other

fructose for a while.

> (grapes/pears/dates, etc.) Or if you have other trigger foods, get

off them.

>

> Mara

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > I have had a miserable couple of weeks.  I don't know if I have a

> die off or problems

> > from Celexa which I have been taking for about 3 weeks now.  My

> internist said this is not

> >

> >

> > It sounds like it is probably the 3 month flare, which consists of

> moving backwards and

> > reversing progress for a certain period of time. What seems to

> trigger it is that all the

> > easy to kill bacteria has died off, and in the interim, some other

> bacterium/a starts to

> > become aggressive and starts a new round of inflammation, so once

> again you have to

> > balance out your gut ecology. It's typical for UC people.

> >

> > What you should do is go back to basics - the intro diet and

> whatever food is really easy

> > digestively for you. It may help to reduce honey and other

> fructose for a while.

> > (grapes/pears/dates, etc.) Or if you have other trigger foods, get

> off them.

> >

> > Mara

> >

>

[Guest guest]

At 12:19 PM 11/23/2008, you wrote:

I've been so good on this diet

for over 3 months now and right now I am so depressed. Please let

me know if you think this could be a die off and how long will it

last.

What I suspect you're hitting is something called " the three month

flare. " As you're aware, the objective of SCD is to starve out the

bad bacteria. Well, it has been observed that right around three months

on the diet, you've done such a good job of starving them that their

numbers are dropping rapidly. You've gotten rid of most of the weak

sisters amongst the bad bacteria and the remaining ones are the stronger

ones.

So in effect, right now, you're saying, " Away with you! " and

they're saying " H-ll no, we won't go! " and creating havoc for

you. So it is absolutely critical that you hold fast at this point and

not eat any illegals, because if you feed the bacteria right now, you'll

let those stronger ones multiple, and then they'll be that much harder to

starve out.

The " three month flare " can occur anywhere from 9 weeks to 16

weeks. It can also occur again at 6-7 months, and 10-12 months. Those

bacteria are stubborn. But YOU are more stubborn.

There's also the possibility that you caught an intestinal virus.

My suggestion would be to drop back to easier-to-digest foods for a

couple of days. Rest as much as possible, and don't push. Then gradually

(probably not quite so gradually as the first time) reintroduce your

regular foods.

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Terry

Other factors do come into play causing symptom flares periodically,

along with die-off or major shifts in our gut ecology.

One of the more important factors is the healing process. Essentially

the body experiences the same or worse symptoms just before reaching

another healing stage. You can look into Hering's Law of Cure for

more information.

Another important one is stress or impacts of lifestyle. I've noticed

in myself, and have read articles on the impacts of stress on body

systems, that once you develop a chronic illness or are dealing with a

weakened digestion or immune system, even the smallest amount of

stress can trigger symptom flares. In my case, I've had to make

changes to my work environment and home environment to alleviate

stress. And I've had to make a conscious effort to rest more, not

doing as much as I used to.

My opinion is that die-off causes problems, but there are other

phenomenon at work too. The result is the same, symptom flares. And

the fix is about the same too. Switch to easier-to-digest foods and

rest more.

Kim M.

SCD 5 years

>..... Die -off is a real phenomenon, I just don't

> know if we should attribute every upset, setback and flare to die-

off

> or should we scrutinize our diet/lifestyle.

>

> Thanks for your time,

> Terry

> UC diagnosed June2008

> Lialda

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The whole three month flair has got me thinking. I came off Prednisone (was on for a little of two months in a taper, starting out at 60 mg). I had a really bad UC attack late July and the UC was diagnosed as moderate to severe. I have now been on SCD four months and no real flare. When I came of the Prednisone, I decided to not take mait meds (mainly because I don't think they ever worked - I used Asacol and am allergic to Asulphasone - and also because both have illegal binders in them.) I have tow questions - do people take meds when these healing flares occur or just ride them out? If I go to the doctor with a flare he wants to put me on immune suppresors so I am just trying to see if/when I get a flare how long I should I try and self manage before I seek medical attention. Is it normal to not have had a healing

flare as of yet at four months?