Dr. Lowe's troubling opinion

[Guest guest]

Its troubling to find that Dr. Lowe, the foremost expert on the use of T3 does

not beleieve in the principles espoused by the board. Dr Rind who also sees

thousands of thyroid patients says that RT3 will not be reduced by T3. Can

these authorities be that wrong? Lowe has been working with thyroid patients

for years and should know whether RT3 issues can cause hypothyroidism no? Can

one of the board regulars explain his opinion away? I am taking iron

supplements so that I can take more cytomel....the evidence is clear that iron

is very toxic to the body...and I don't want to do this if T3 therapy won't

really clear RT3...thanks as always~

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Some have speculated that the elevated reverse-T3 is the culprit, continually

blocking the conversion of T4 to T3 as a competitive substrate for the

5'-deiodinase enzyme. However, this belief is contradicted by studies of the

dynamics of T4 to T3 conversion and T4 to reverse-T3 conversion. Laboratory

studies have shown that when factors such as increased cortisol levels cause a

decrease in T4 to T3 conversion and an increase in T4 to reverse-T3 conversion,

the shift in the percentages of T3 and reverse-T3 produced is only temporary.

[Guest guest]

Harry Dr Lowe & I do not disagree. Please go to Talk Shoe and look for

Stop The Thyroid Madness and listen ot the last show where Dr Lowe & I

talked.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=62603 & cmd=tc

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

>Lowe has been working with thyroid patients for years and should know whether

RT3 issues can cause hypothyroidism no? Can one of the board regulars explain

his opinion away? I am taking iron supplements so that I can take more

cytomel....the evidence is clear that iron is very toxic to the body...and I

don't want to do this if T3 therapy won't really clear RT3...thanks as always~

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I haven't listened to the Lowe interview yet but I have listened to a

lot of people on this group and others say that low ferritin gives an

intolerance to thyroid hormone. The STTM site covers it very well, low

thyroid causes low ferritin which in turn prevents thyroid support

being tolerated.

Lowe is more into Fibromyalgia than thyroid resistance from what I

have read.

>

>Some have speculated that the elevated reverse-T3 is the culprit, continually

blocking the conversion of T4 to T3 as a competitive substrate for the

5'-deiodinase enzyme. However, this belief is contradicted by studies of the

dynamics of T4 to T3 conversion and T4 to reverse-T3 conversion. Laboratory

studies have shown that when factors such as increased cortisol levels cause a

decrease in T4 to T3 conversion and an increase in T4 to reverse-T3 conversion,

the shift in the percentages of T3 and reverse-T3 produced is only temporary.

I've seen plenty of evidence that people feel bad with a low FT3 and

high RT3 and that reversing this ratio helps them feel better.

IF you can identify the original cause of the " wrong direction "

conversion and correct that then you will probably gradually improve.

Taking away the source of the RT3 is guaranteed to reduce the RT3

though, what's around gets metabolized/excreted and no more is made.

This WILL reduce RT3. Interestingly the main metabolic effect of this

takes place long after the serum levels have reduced. The working

theory is that RT3 is " stuck in the receptors " and that image fits the

circumstances hence by Occam's razor is probably right. At the end of

the day I don't care about the biology of it, it works and is

repeatable across many people.

The suddenness of the final " receptor clearance " is extremely

surprising. My T3 requirement to " not be hypo " halved overnight.

Others have reported similar effects.

I am not a biologist or a doctor, what I can say is that the theories

fit the circumstances and I feel better than I have since I was about

age 12.

Nick

[Guest guest]

Val thanks for your post..Happy to hear that Lowe does not disagree with

you....which one of the chats were you referring to? Dr. Lowe is featured on

several. Thanks to you to Nick...you have touched on exactly the issue that Dr.

Rind/Dr. Peat and Dr. Brownstein have raised with me. Rather than blasting the

body with T3 (Rind beleives that taking T3 is like igniting a stick of dynamite

in the body) and toxic iron supplements(I really recommend Professor Lauffer's

book to all taking iron), the way to fix RT3 resistance is to remove what is

causing it in the first place...Rind beleives that its poor diet and adrenal

distress, Peat beleives that its poor diet, in particular too many

Polyunsaturated Fatty acids, not enough animal protein fruit and Sea salt...and

Brownstein believes it is poor liver function. I am trying to do these things

because I am afraid to cause further harm to myself with T3 and iron....the jury

is still our on whether it will work.

>

> >Lowe has been working with thyroid patients for years and should know whether

RT3 issues can cause hypothyroidism no? Can one of the board regulars explain

his opinion away? I am taking iron supplements so that I can take more

cytomel....the evidence is clear that iron is very toxic to the body...and I

don't want to do this if T3 therapy won't really clear RT3...thanks as always~

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>

> I haven't listened to the Lowe interview yet but I have listened to a

> lot of people on this group and others say that low ferritin gives an

> intolerance to thyroid hormone. The STTM site covers it very well, low

> thyroid causes low ferritin which in turn prevents thyroid support

> being tolerated.

>

> Lowe is more into Fibromyalgia than thyroid resistance from what I

> have read.

> >

> >Some have speculated that the elevated reverse-T3 is the culprit, continually

blocking the conversion of T4 to T3 as a competitive substrate for the

5'-deiodinase enzyme. However, this belief is contradicted by studies of the

dynamics of T4 to T3 conversion and T4 to reverse-T3 conversion. Laboratory

studies have shown that when factors such as increased cortisol levels cause a

decrease in T4 to T3 conversion and an increase in T4 to reverse-T3 conversion,

the shift in the percentages of T3 and reverse-T3 produced is only temporary.

>

> I've seen plenty of evidence that people feel bad with a low FT3 and

> high RT3 and that reversing this ratio helps them feel better.

>

> IF you can identify the original cause of the " wrong direction "

> conversion and correct that then you will probably gradually improve.

>

> Taking away the source of the RT3 is guaranteed to reduce the RT3

> though, what's around gets metabolized/excreted and no more is made.

> This WILL reduce RT3. Interestingly the main metabolic effect of this

> takes place long after the serum levels have reduced. The working

> theory is that RT3 is " stuck in the receptors " and that image fits the

> circumstances hence by Occam's razor is probably right. At the end of

> the day I don't care about the biology of it, it works and is

> repeatable across many people.

>

> The suddenness of the final " receptor clearance " is extremely

> surprising. My T3 requirement to " not be hypo " halved overnight.

> Others have reported similar effects.

>

> I am not a biologist or a doctor, what I can say is that the theories

> fit the circumstances and I feel better than I have since I was about

> age 12.

>

> Nick

>

[Guest guest]

> I am trying to do these things because I am afraid to cause further harm to

myself with T3 and iron....the jury is still our on whether it will work.

The problem once again is excessively wide reference ranges.

If you start checking the ferritin levels of " healthy people " instead

of the sick people they derive reference ranges from (a post about

that coming up later when I have time) then I think you will find that

most of these people have ferritin in the area that is being

recommended here.

We are not suggesting that you take it to the top of the range even,

ranges go far higher than the 70-90 window suggested by Janie and Val.

The diet changes etc that you are making will hopefully stop these

problems reoccurring, whether they will be enough to reverse the issue

is another issue.

There is the vicious circle of low ferritin, hypo people lose iron

because they are hypo, without the iron they cannot tolerate the

thyroid hormone to make them non-hypo. Without the thyroid hormone

they cannot hang onto the iron.

Climbing out of that hole is a difficult one without TEMPORARILY

supplementing heavily. This is a stage along the route, once they are

no longer hypo they can hang onto the iron and no longer have to

heavily supplement. Nobody is suggesting that you need 150mg of iron a

day for life.

The comments about " blasting the body with T3 " are more aimed at the

school of thought than the protocol that Val advocates here.

Increasing T3 slowly until it is a full replacement dose (while not

going hyper) is not " blasting it " . It is a carefully controlled dose

aimed at being " non-hypo " while shutting down T4 production.

The body builders " blast themselves with T3 " when they attempt to go

hyper to lose weight. They then find that this increased the SHBG and

hence reduces the free testosterone which causes them to need to

abuse the anabolic steroids more to get the same effect. That is

totally different to edging up gently while monitoring to ensure that

you are not hyper.

Nick

[Guest guest]

It is the last chat on Talk Shoe where we discussed our differing

opinions on T3 and discovered we do nto disagree at all. As for the

other doctors, I do not know their philosophies well. But I can tell you

this wihtout enough Ferritin you will never toerate noughof ANY thyroid

med to actually feel well. And liver disease is caused by low T3 and

corrected by T3 replacmnt,. I cured my cat's Liver disease wiht T3 onyl

treatment when his vet gave him a 20% survival possibility. That was

over 2 years ago and he is well and strong wiht normal liver finction

NOW on T3 onyl. He was aopn natural thyroid when the problem began. This

speaks quite highly of T3 onyl treatment. I also have a VERY good diet

and poroper fat ratios and NO liver issues and still I make RT3 whenever

I take Naturl thyroid. And I make not only RT3 but sky rocketed levels

of antibodies (TPO) when I take iodine which kind of limits my ability

to agree with Brownstein.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Stunning work you've done with your cat, Val. It's all so interesting and enlightening!As for the iodine, which is one of the huge issues for Hypothyroid - We're all different! I don't think I ever reacted to iodine. I tried iodine in multivitamines many times and.. I've been getting a lot in my diet, which has an amount of fish in it. I learned many years ago that lack of iodine is one of the causes for Hypothyroidism. I still haven't tried Lugol's Iodine. Maybe it'll do wonders for me. Iodine has many jobs to do in the body. I am currently reading Brownsteins book.So nobody knows why you make rT3 Val? Maybe you should try to find the reason and get rid of it? Stress? Something you eat? (Even things in a good diet can cause rT3 issues for YOUR body?)T.

 

It is the last chat on Talk Shoe where we discussed our differing

opinions on T3 and discovered we do nto disagree at all. As for the

other doctors, I do not know their philosophies well. But I can tell you

this wihtout enough Ferritin you will never toerate noughof ANY thyroid

med to actually feel well. And liver disease is caused by low T3 and

corrected by T3 replacmnt,. I cured my cat's Liver disease wiht T3 onyl

treatment when his vet gave him a 20% survival possibility. That was

over 2 years ago and he is well and strong wiht normal liver finction

NOW on T3 onyl. He was aopn natural thyroid when the problem began. This

speaks quite highly of T3 onyl treatment. I also have a VERY good diet

and poroper fat ratios and NO liver issues and still I make RT3 whenever

I take Naturl thyroid. And I make not only RT3 but sky rocketed levels

of antibodies (TPO) when I take iodine which kind of limits my ability

to agree with Brownstein.

[Guest guest]

If it's ok to chime in here: I followed Dr. lowe's recommendation regarding dosing t3 all at once in the evening. It was a hellish three days, I tell ya. I'm back to multi-dosing and though I don't feel as good as I'd like to feel yet (I'm not yet on the dose I need to be cuz I'm increasing slooowwwllly), I do feel better than when I dosed only in the eve.

I have also figured out via reading other people's posts here, that taking my first t3 dose after 12 p.m. (when i've already taken at least two-three doses of hc) works a whole lot better for me than when I take my first t3 dose in the morning.

The biggest lesson i am learning is to listen and be attuned to one's own body. Take temps, pulse, bp, glucose, whatever it takes to get the ducks in order.

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 10:56:08 AMSubject: Re: Dr. Lowe's troubling opinion

Val thanks for your post..Happy to hear that Lowe does not disagree with you....which one of the chats were you referring to? Dr. Lowe is featured on several. Thanks to you to Nick...you have touched on exactly the issue that Dr. Rind/Dr. Peat and Dr. Brownstein have raised with me. Rather than blasting the body with T3 (Rind beleives that taking T3 is like igniting a stick of dynamite in the body) and toxic iron supplements( I really recommend Professor Lauffer's book to all taking iron), the way to fix RT3 resistance is to remove what is causing it in the first place...Rind beleives that its poor diet and adrenal distress, Peat beleives that its poor diet, in particular too many Polyunsaturated Fatty acids, not enough animal protein fruit and Sea salt...and Brownstein believes it is poor liver function. I am trying to do these things because I am afraid to cause further harm to myself with T3 and iron....the jury is still our on whether it will

work. > > >Lowe has been working with thyroid patients for years and should know whether RT3 issues can cause hypothyroidism no? Can one of the board regulars explain his opinion away? I am taking iron supplements so that I can take more cytomel.....the evidence is clear that iron is very toxic to the body...and I don't want to do this if T3 therapy won't really clear RT3...thanks as always~ > >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > I haven't listened to the Lowe interview yet but I have listened to a> lot of people on this group and others say that low ferritin gives an> intolerance to thyroid hormone. The

STTM site covers it very well, low> thyroid causes low ferritin which in turn prevents thyroid support> being tolerated.> > Lowe is more into Fibromyalgia than thyroid resistance from what I> have read.> >> >Some have speculated that the elevated reverse-T3 is the culprit, continually blocking the conversion of T4 to T3 as a competitive substrate for the 5'-deiodinase enzyme. However, this belief is contradicted by studies of the dynamics of T4 to T3 conversion and T4 to reverse-T3 conversion. Laboratory studies have shown that when factors such as increased cortisol levels cause a decrease in T4 to T3 conversion and an increase in T4 to reverse-T3 conversion, the shift in the percentages of T3 and reverse-T3 produced is only temporary.> > I've seen plenty of evidence that people feel bad with a low FT3 and> high RT3 and that reversing this ratio helps them feel better.>

> IF you can identify the original cause of the "wrong direction"> conversion and correct that then you will probably gradually improve..> > Taking away the source of the RT3 is guaranteed to reduce the RT3> though, what's around gets metabolized/ excreted and no more is made.> This WILL reduce RT3. Interestingly the main metabolic effect of this> takes place long after the serum levels have reduced. The working> theory is that RT3 is "stuck in the receptors" and that image fits the> circumstances hence by Occam's razor is probably right. At the end of> the day I don't care about the biology of it, it works and is> repeatable across many people. > > The suddenness of the final "receptor clearance" is extremely> surprising. My T3 requirement to "not be hypo" halved overnight.> Others have reported similar effects.> > I am not a biologist

or a doctor, what I can say is that the theories> fit the circumstances and I feel better than I have since I was about> age 12.> > Nick>

[Guest guest]

Very interesting, Miriam, that you don't take your first dose until noon. I'm

going to have to consider that, or at least not taking it first thing but taking

it when I start getting " that feeling " in my head. It might make my mornings

better..

Jeanne

>

> If it's ok to chime in here: I followed Dr. lowe's recommendation regarding

dosing t3 all at once in the evening. It was a hellish three days, I tell ya.

I'm back to multi-dosing and though I don't feel as good as I'd like to feel yet

(I'm not yet on the dose I need to be cuz I'm increasing slooowwwllly), I do

feel better than when I dosed only in the eve.

>

> I have also figured out via reading other people's posts here, that taking my

first t3 dose after 12 p.m. (when i've already taken at least two-three doses of

hc) works a whole lot better for me than when I take my first t3 dose in the

morning.

>

> The biggest lesson i am learning is to listen and be attuned to one's own

body. Take temps, pulse, bp, glucose, whatever it takes to get the ducks in

order.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>The biggest lesson i am learning is to listen and be attuned to one's own body.

Take temps, pulse, bp, glucose, whatever it takes to get the ducks in order.

>

Good lessons there.

I learnt a lot when I tried 50mcg at once incread of two doses of 25 3

hours apart!

Nick

[Guest guest]

I am pretty much ticked off by the service provided to me, at the rate of $#%! No emails returned, etc. I will call my credit card provider and ask to dispute the charge. I don't recall the last time I've been so disrespected by a proclaimed 'doctor'. Sorry for the vent; i think others should be forewarned. i do ask that whoever HAS been helped, please do share your stories so that there may be a more balanced view. As for myself, I will never refer anyone to him.

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 3:07:26 AMSubject: Re: Re: Dr. Lowe's troubling opinion

>The biggest lesson i am learning is to listen and be attuned to one's own body. Take temps, pulse, bp, glucose, whatever it takes to get the ducks in order.. >Good lessons there.I learnt a lot when I tried 50mcg at once incread of two doses of 25 3hours apart!Nick

[Guest guest]

Who is this about?Sent from my iPhone

I am pretty much ticked off by the service provided to me, at the rate of $#%! No emails returned, etc. I will call my credit card provider and ask to dispute the charge. I don't recall the last time I've been so disrespected by a proclaimed 'doctor'. Sorry for the vent; i think others should be forewarned. i do ask that whoever HAS been helped, please do share your stories so that there may be a more balanced view. As for myself, I will never refer anyone to him.

From: Nick Foot <listsoakfield-icelandics (DOT) co.uk>To: RT3_T3 Sent: Fri, January 29, 2010 3:07:26 AMSubject: Re: Re: Dr. Lowe's troubling opinion

>The biggest lesson i am learning is to listen and be attuned to one's own body. Take temps, pulse, bp, glucose, whatever it takes to get the ducks in order.. >Good lessons there.I learnt a lot when I tried 50mcg at once incread of two doses of 25 3hours apart!Nick

[Guest guest]

Tom,which Brownstein's book is the one stresing on iodine use? I searched his

books and the one I found is Overcoming Thyroid Disorders but I'm not sure if in

this one he describes how to use iodine?

Milena

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> It is the last chat on Talk Shoe where we discussed our differing

>

> opinions on T3 and discovered we do nto disagree at all. As for the

>

> other doctors, I do not know their philosophies well. But I can tell you

>

> this wihtout enough Ferritin you will never toerate noughof ANY thyroid

>

> med to actually feel well. And liver disease is caused by low T3 and

>

> corrected by T3 replacmnt,. I cured my cat's Liver disease wiht T3 onyl

>

> treatment when his vet gave him a 20% survival possibility. That was

>

> over 2 years ago and he is well and strong wiht normal liver finction

>

> NOW on T3 onyl. He was aopn natural thyroid when the problem began. This

>

> speaks quite highly of T3 onyl treatment. I also have a VERY good diet

>

> and poroper fat ratios and NO liver issues and still I make RT3 whenever

>

> I take Naturl thyroid. And I make not only RT3 but sky rocketed levels

>

> of antibodies (TPO) when I take iodine which kind of limits my ability

>

> to agree with Brownstein.

>