Re: Newbie, advice PLEASE. Val I talked to you by phone about 10 days ago.

[Guest guest]

Welcome.

Though I can't answer your questions, I can relate to the flat-line. My

adrenals were shot, my wallup was the 18-wheeler joy ride on an overpass. I was

attached to the right front fender and he was smashing me against the concrete

barrier. If that barrier would of given away I would of been killed by the

passing trains below. He didn't see me attached to his truck so the ordeal

seemed forever. Another car on the highway had to pull in front of the truck to

stop him.

Adrenals tanked on me and never forgave me.

I can't take T4 because of the RT3 issues. Doctors did the t4/t3 mix with me -

all natural, but I felt more awful on it. Can't even do a 1/4 grain w/o feeling

horrible.

I am beginning T3 and on 15mcg and had to support my adrenals a little more to

even tolerate it.

Support adrenals first before you even take thyroid meds. This site taught me

that, not the doctors.

Symptoms do improve, but it takes time and lots of asking questions and trying

tweaks to get it right. Eventually you get better in understanding your body

and what it wants.

Do take your temps and graph them.

You are not alone.

-

>

> Sorry this is long, but I promise I kept it shorter than I originally planned.

I don't know how much info is helpful so I wanted to tell some of my story.

>

> I have tried HC and thyroid replacement in the last few years for severe

fatigue and cognitive dysfunction, but never together. Indeed, I probably made

my adrenal situation worse taking T3 without adrenal support. Other symptoms

have been poor memory, paresthesias, muscle twitching, tinnitis, burning skin,

flushing, heart pounding, cold intolerance yet sweating for no reason,

unrefreshing sleep, etc. I have never had the pain, sore throats and swollen

nodes associated with CFS/FM, however, I am wondering if all these symptoms

sound familiar? My illness started after years of extreme stress and a wallop

by a sackie virus that seemed to finish me off.

>

> I have had thyroid antibodies tested 3 times and always negative. I was

diagnosed adrenal exhaustion a little over a year ago and started on medrol 6mg

daily. My salivary testing at that time was pretty much a flat line: 4, 2,2,2.

I also started armour 30 am and pm, and was started on testosterone for low

levels. For the first time in 3 years I began functioning somewhat, able to

work some but within limits. I regained physical strength but still struggled

with mental energy and brain fog. I went seeking help with a doc that finally

tested my RT3. It was 408 at the time with a FT3 of 3.17, but while my doc

acknowledged it was a problem he offered no solution for correcting it. He did

salivary testing (I was still on the Medrol) and it had a normal curve, 20, 8,

11, 4. We have been adjusting my meds over the last 6 months, various Armour

dosages and ultimately changing to cortef, 7.5/5/5/2.5.

>

> In November I was on 45/30 of compounded dessicated thyroid and was

functioning reasonably well but still plagued by brain fog. Some days worse

than others (actually some hours worse than others) but never totally clear in

the head like I was living in this world. It seemed like my fog was actually

worse with each dose of dessicated thyroid, and I think it helped to actually

divide it to 30/15/15/15 and take it 4 times a day. We decided to try changing

one of my 15mg of Armour to 2.5mcg of SR T3. I tried it for about 4 days and

just went so deep into the fog that I had to stop it to continue working. I

stayed on the decreased dose of 15/15/15/15 of dessicated thyroid since then and

was functioning pretty well with less fog but never clear...until about 10 days

ago I really went down, tired, no motivation, depression. Then familiar

symptoms of being hot then cold returned, some heart pounding, and waking at 3

am in a sweat. That was when I found this website and am begging for help. I

was doing ok but wanted to be better. Now I feel like I'm going backwards.

>

> I had my labs repeated last week and got them today. My TSH is going up, 4.0,

and FT3 was 3.2, RT3 239 (It has progressively decreased since I switched Medrol

to Cortef), FT4 1.2 and ferritin 44 (range 22-322). So I am guessing that my

recent worsening are due to that I am more hypothyroid. Is my awakening in the

night in a sweat an adrenal response to that? Over the last week I have been

tracking my temps. Every weekday I have been 98.6 or 98.7 on average, but the

weekends are lower, 98.3-98.4. I don't know if it has to do with sleeping later

or my different activity during the weekends, but found it strange that my avg

temp was low this weekend and then back at work today right back up at 98.6. I

had also tried adding in another 2.5mcg dose of SRT3 this weekend so maybe that

could be related?

>

> I will continue to track temps and have started iron. I tried just the over

the counter 65 mg elemental iron but it really tears up my stomach. My doc

recommended " Energizing Iron " for best absorption. Does anyone have good or bad

experience with it? It has much lower amounts of elemental iron but is touted

as " heme iron " and 33% more absorbable with no gastric side effects. I am also

wondering if I should try taking a 2.5mg dose of SRT3 at bedtime to see if it

will help keep me from waking up at 3 in a sweat. Any thoughts there? I tried

taking 2.5 mg of cortef at bedtime and that didnt help. Once I get my ferritin

up will see what the RT3 does, or should I change the thyroid now? Trying to

decide whether to go back to another 15 of dessicated thyroid or try 2.5 mcg SR

T3 for the time being. Thank you for any help and advice. I am forever

indebted. I am mostly curious as to which symptoms I can expect to improve by

trying this protocol. Does the brain fog go away????

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve

Is this the iron your taking. If so this will not put up your iron levels very fast. If at all.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/et/liver.htmlThis product is more like a multi vitamin dose it only has 2mg of iron in it. Even if it is the most absobable iron you can get it will not do much to your ferritin level. For example my family takes ferrous fumerate which contains 310 mg of iron which has 100mg of elemental iron. So they take 2 tabs a day.

This iron is meant to be a good one. Each tabs contains 27mg of iron and you just take enough tablets to get between 100mg-200mg of elemental iron a day. Which you need.

http://www.iherb.com/Bluebonnet-Nutrition-Chelated-Iron-90-Vcaps/11571?at=0

if you are worried about your stomach just stay away from ferrous sulfate.

Sky

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Thu, 28 January, 2010 7:34:04 AMSubject: Newbie, advice PLEASE. Val I talked to you by phone about 10 days ago.

II will continue to track temps and have started iron. I tried just the over the counter 65 mg elemental iron but it really tears up my stomach. My doc recommended "Energizing Iron" for best absorption. Does anyone have good or bad experience with it? It has much lower amounts of elemental iron but is touted as "heme iron" and 33% more absorbable with no gastric side effects. I am also wondering if I should try taking a 2.5mg dose of SRT3 at bedtime to see if it will help keep me from waking up at 3 in a sweat. Any thoughts there? I tried taking 2.5 mg of cortef at bedtime and that didnt help. Once I get my ferritin up will see what the RT3 does, or should I change the thyroid now? Trying to decide whether to go back to another 15 of dessicated thyroid or try 2.5 mcg SR T3 for the time being. Thank you for any help and advice. I am forever indebted. I am mostly curious as to which symptoms I can expect to improve by trying this protocol. Does the

brain fog go away????

Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and for free at PLUS7. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sky. Yeah that is the one. I realized that it had a lot less iron but

he said that the absorption was the key so that you needed very little. He said

that with other iron supps you may get 2% absorption but could get 33% with

this. I was just wanting to use something that others had had success with so I

don't find out down the road that I have been wasting time. I will try and get

this one you recommended tomorrow.

>

> Hi Steve

>

> Is this the iron your taking. If so this will not put up your iron levels very

fast. If at all.

>

> http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/et/liver.html

> This product is more like a multi vitamin dose it only has 2mg of iron in it.

Even if it is the most absobable iron you can get it will not do much to your

ferritin level. For example my family takes ferrous fumerate which contains 310

mg of iron which has 100mg of elemental iron. So they take 2 tabs a day.

>

> This iron is meant to be a good one. Each tabs contains 27mg of iron and you

just take enough tablets to get between 100mg-200mg of elemental iron a day.

Which you need.

> http://www.iherb.com/Bluebonnet-Nutrition-Chelated-Iron-90-Vcaps/11571?at=0

>

> if you are worried about your stomach just stay away from ferrous sulfate.

>

> Sky

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: RT3_T3

> Sent: Thu, 28 January, 2010 7:34:04 AM

> Subject: Newbie, advice PLEASE. Val I talked to you by phone about 10

days ago.

>

>  

> II will continue to track temps and have started iron. I tried just the over

the counter 65 mg elemental iron but it really tears up my stomach. My doc

recommended " Energizing Iron " for best absorption. Does anyone have good or bad

experience with it? It has much lower amounts of elemental iron but is touted as

" heme iron " and 33% more absorbable with no gastric side effects. I am also

wondering if I should try taking a 2.5mg dose of SRT3 at bedtime to see if it

will help keep me from waking up at 3 in a sweat. Any thoughts there? I tried

taking 2.5 mg of cortef at bedtime and that didnt help. Once I get my ferritin

up will see what the RT3 does, or should I change the thyroid now? Trying to

decide whether to go back to another 15 of dessicated thyroid or try 2.5 mcg SR

T3 for the time being. Thank you for any help and advice. I am forever indebted.

I am mostly curious as to which symptoms I can expect to improve by trying this

protocol. Does the brain

> fog go away????

>

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

__

> Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and

for free at PLUS7. www.tv.yahoo.com.au/plus7

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve

Most docs do not have a clue as to how much iron we actually need when it comes to our thyroid. Your doc being one of them. Docs hate giving out high doses of iron unless you are aneamic. Elemental iron is the absorbable part of the iron. The iron you take even if it absorbs 33% you still are only getting less than 1 mg of iron.

Glad i could help.

Sky

----- Forwarded Message ----To: RT3_T3 Sent: Thu, 28 January, 2010 9:36:15 AMSubject: Re: Newbie, advice PLEASE. Val I talked to you by phone about 10 days ago.

Thanks Sky. Yeah that is the one. I realized that it had a lot less iron but he said that the absorption was the key so that you needed very little. He said that with other iron supps you may get 2% absorption but could get 33% with this. I was just wanting to use something that others had had success with so I don't find out down the road that I have been wasting time. I will try and get this one you recommended tomorrow.

Yahoo!7: Catch-up on your favourite Channel 7 TV shows easily, legally, and for free at PLUS7. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

> I am mostly curious as to which symptoms I can expect to improve by trying

this protocol. Does the brain fog go away????

The brain fog does go away when you get it right

I was on Armour for 10 years until they messed it up and have gone

over to T3 only now.

I feel the best I have for 35 years in terms of being able to think

My body is behaving pretty well too, not many low grade aches and

pains compared with the last few years, things I put down to getting

older were residual hypo.

If you can get Ferritin, cortisol, and FT3 all in the right place at

the same time then good things happen.

Nick

--

for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much Nick. You really have a good feel for what has worked for

others. I was hoping to get advice from Val or you about what I should do from

here. I have just started the iron supps. My temps I guess aren't stable but

only vary about .3 degrees (98.3-98.7) and many times I get 98.6 which surprised

me. I am not precise about the times I take HC and the dessicated thyroid

although I try to be within an hour of each dose throughout the day. The temps

seem perfectly stable during the weekdays when I usually take things at the same

time everyday. At the moment I am feeling more hypothyroid than I have the last

few months when I decreased the dose from 45/30 to 30/30 so I know that the

dessicated thyroid is doing some thing for me. I hadn't had the chills,

flushing, and waking up in a sweat at night in months until just the last few

weeks. I know that the HC is what brought me back from the dead, and ever

since, I have been trying to get to the next level....not just functional but

enjoying life. I can't plan anything because I may have a few good hours or

even a few good days but so unpredictable. I always thought that the

variability was due to the HC and the armour that I was taking because often in

the evening hours when I had taken neither in 4 or 5 hours I felt my best. The

brain fog would be so much less, never gone but clearer. I would also have

moments like this during the day sometimes so I know my body will occasionally

find a better spot but I don't know how to hold it. Anyway, can anyone help me

decide what to do from here. I am so scared to go back to where I have been,

but I want to be more normal before my kids grow up without me.

I gave a lot of labs earlier but not ranges. Here are a few dates.

Sept 2009 taking 45/30 dessicated thyroid, Cortef 10/5/5 plus 2mg medrol daily

TSH .529 (.45-4.5)

FT4 1.17 (.93-1.71)

FT3 2.8 (2.0-4.4)

RT3 343 (90-350)

Nov 2009 taking 15/15/15/15 dessicated thyroid, Cortef 10/5/5 plus 1mg medrol

daily

TSH 1.18 same ranges

FT4 1.32

FT3 3.0

RT3 238

Jan 2010 Taking 15/15/15/15 dessicated thyroid, Cortef 7.5/5/5

TSH 4.0 same ranges

FT4 1.12

FT3 3.2

RT3 239

Ferritin 44 (22-322)

My FT3 levels are pretty good for such a low dose, but still have the RT3

problem and the TSH started going up as I cut back on the thyroid. I don't know

if the RT3 problem came from the wiped out adrenals but I suspect it. I was

under extreme and increasing stress for the better part of a decade when the

thyroid symptoms started and I actually treated with high doses of T3 without

adrenal support which whacked them even more. Now I am doing 7.5/5/5/2.5 of

Cortef but really having a hard time figuring out when to dose everything around

the iron. I think I am just going to take the iron at bedtime. I started

taking a capsule of 2.5mcg SRT3 at bedtime and I think it is helping the

nightime awakening in a sweat. I suspected that would work or HC at bedtime

would work but only the former seemed to help this week. I even tried both

together. It seems to make sense though doesn't it since it really only started

again as my TSH went up.

THANK you to anyone that can help me.

Steve

>

> > I am mostly curious as to which symptoms I can expect to improve by trying

this protocol. Does the brain fog go away????

>

> The brain fog does go away when you get it right

>

> I was on Armour for 10 years until they messed it up and have gone

> over to T3 only now.

>

> I feel the best I have for 35 years in terms of being able to think

>

> My body is behaving pretty well too, not many low grade aches and

> pains compared with the last few years, things I put down to getting

> older were residual hypo.

>

> If you can get Ferritin, cortisol, and FT3 all in the right place at

> the same time then good things happen.

>

> Nick

>

> --

>

> for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

>

> www.thyroid-rt3.com

>

[Guest guest]

>THANK you to anyone that can help me.

Difficult to know where to start.

You look very hypo on all those labs, most people need FT3 at the top

of the range to feel well. Have you tried increased, did you get

adverse effects?

T3/FT3 ratios were varying between 8 and 13 on those labs and we look

for 20 as a minimum so RT3 is coming into things. It may be that more

natural will get you there, if you can bring your FT3 up to 5 or so

(just over range, a nice place to be) and the RT3 does not get worse

then your ratio would be 20 which is a fair place to be.

It seems to me that you need more of something, either a decent dose

of Natural (the typical dose is 3 to 5 grains) or going over to T3

only and ramping up to the 75 to 125 area where most people feel best.

It's your call which route you take but you need something!

Nick

--

for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

www.thyroid-rt3.com

[Guest guest]

Thank you Nick.

While I am trying to get my ferritin up, do you think it would be reasonable to

substitute one or two doses of natural with an equivalent of T3? It seems that

when I have tried to increase natural in the past I have had more heart pounding

and sweating and especially more brain fog. When I dropped from 45/30 of

natural to 30/30 it was because I was wondering if my fluctuating symptoms from

hour to hour were from the blast of T3 in the morning and the afternoon dose. I

thought maybe I needed a more stable level of T3 so I added a morning dose of

SRT3 2.5 mcg. After 3-4 days I just had to stop it because I was so fogged I

couldn't work and my temps had gotten up to 99 at times. That is when I

started taking 15/15/15/15 and it seemed to help the fluctuation some until I

think I eventually got too hypo over 6 weeks and the old symptoms returned.

Steve

>

> >THANK you to anyone that can help me.

>

> Difficult to know where to start.

>

> You look very hypo on all those labs, most people need FT3 at the top

> of the range to feel well. Have you tried increased, did you get

> adverse effects?

>

> T3/FT3 ratios were varying between 8 and 13 on those labs and we look

> for 20 as a minimum so RT3 is coming into things. It may be that more

> natural will get you there, if you can bring your FT3 up to 5 or so

> (just over range, a nice place to be) and the RT3 does not get worse

> then your ratio would be 20 which is a fair place to be.

>

> It seems to me that you need more of something, either a decent dose

> of Natural (the typical dose is 3 to 5 grains) or going over to T3

> only and ramping up to the 75 to 125 area where most people feel best.

>

> It's your call which route you take but you need something!

>

> Nick

>

> --

>

> for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

>

> www.thyroid-rt3.com

>

[Guest guest]

Do you think that there are any clues in that my FT4 went down as my TSH went

up, or that I have reasonable T3 levels on such a low dose of natural? Do you

know how to get Val to comment on this whole mess? I had a phone call with her

about 2 weeks ago and she asked me to post my labs when I got them, but she

hasn't seen my post I guess. Thanks for your time Nick.

Steve

>

> >THANK you to anyone that can help me.

>

> Difficult to know where to start.

>

> You look very hypo on all those labs, most people need FT3 at the top

> of the range to feel well. Have you tried increased, did you get

> adverse effects?

>

> T3/FT3 ratios were varying between 8 and 13 on those labs and we look

> for 20 as a minimum so RT3 is coming into things. It may be that more

> natural will get you there, if you can bring your FT3 up to 5 or so

> (just over range, a nice place to be) and the RT3 does not get worse

> then your ratio would be 20 which is a fair place to be.

>

> It seems to me that you need more of something, either a decent dose

> of Natural (the typical dose is 3 to 5 grains) or going over to T3

> only and ramping up to the 75 to 125 area where most people feel best.

>

> It's your call which route you take but you need something!

>

> Nick

>

> --

>

> for more information on RT3 and Thyroid Resistance go to

>

> www.thyroid-rt3.com

>