Re: Re: Genetic predisposition (was: Sober as a Bush?)

[Guest guest]

Which temple or laboratory do we attend to worship your form of logic and thought process Mona?

You are a putrid piece of shit. If I put this identity on killfilter, will you change your name yet again?

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Both sit on the margins to validate their own fragile reality.

As opposed to a an asshole such as yourself.

Figure it out Goeroge, I've seen you in action before, and will not -- under any circumstnces -- engage you in substantive discussion. Keep posting to me and all I'll do is send back abuse and insults.

You've been warned.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

"The Making of Intelligence", Ken , Weidenfield and ( CN 8755 0 000000 087551)strongly disagrees with your statement below as regards intelligence Mona. Its a good read for an open mind. Telling people "facts" which are only assumptions is a very dangerous practice.

Morons and misanthropes...just ike you.

Bugger off . Posting anything of substance to me will be either ignored, or responded to as above.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

You appear to have much misplaced faith Steve. How old are you?

Steve is my 3-year-old son. Quite the prodigy, eh? Now, drag your knuckles back to the cave Georgie....

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

.. Do you propose to talk for them as well as the scientific establishment?

When polymath Steve graduates from gradeschool, he will take the Einstein Chair of All Knowledge at Harvard. So yes, he speaks for them all.

Have you fucked off yet, ?

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

There are moderates on both sides of the divide and I feel that they help

people a lot more than the extremists do. Though those in here see AA to be

misguided it have been the first step to a recovery of sorts for many.

Changing ones life and understanding can be approached from many angles and

moved on from when one is ready.Without it many would not, could not, have

moved on to the positions they now hold in their refutation of it. In much

the same way medications have also been used short term as a help to see

people through a crisis and they may have not achieved a better life without

their help in the beginning.

One who is skilled with words can imply many certainties and prejudices

which escape the less literate. That is why I keep my comments to a minimum.

People should think for themselves.

In school if a teacher instructs that 2 + 2 = 5 then the brighest child in

class is he/she who can regurgitate that erroneous answer the fastest. This

relationship to heirarchy carries on into adulthood for many, many people. A

man who repeats whqat they do not understand is no more than an ass carrying

books. Do not confuse being well read with being knowledgable because it

does not follow.

I thought I had made the link between age and emotional understanding

quite clear in my earlier posts.

>From: doglvr000@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Re: Genetic predisposition (was: Sober as a

>Bush?)

>Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 06:32:38 EDT

>

>In a message dated 7/29/01 5:21:06 AM Central Daylight Time,

>W51@... writes:

>

><< A Stepper? Good heavens no. Does everyone that has a variant on your

>views

> have to be labeled and thus discarded so the views you hold remain firm

>in

> light of contradiction? I have been to aadeproramming.com on many

>occasions

> but i have little time for extremists on either side. >>

>

>:

>No, I don't need anyone to agree with me completely about anything. I

>don't

>believe aadeprogramming.com is extremist. It's very factual and a good

>source of information as to the true nature of 12 step groups. aa is scary

>and well financed by the federal govt. to the tune of millions of dollars.

>I

>apologize if I have labeled you. You do seem anti science, and kind of

>hostile to Steve. Steve's post are usually more specific than yours - you

>tend towards generalities. But keep on posting. I don't have to agree

>with

>you. I don't have to agree with anyone. If you would read the posts

>between

>Mona and Steve, it would be apparent that they respectfully disagree many

>times. However, you have flamed at Steve with questions like how old is

>he?

>What the hell difference does that make? Such a question undermines your

>credibility, not his.

>Jan

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[Guest guest]

Better personal hygeine and community sanitary conditions prevent the spread

of polio Jan. Look to the foods you eat for remedies for sore throats and

other common ailments. There are many herbal rememdies out there in

addiction to what one eats as food. They have the natural balances in them,

refined over the millenia by the forces of nature and conducive to our

complex body. Spending time researching these areas can be beneficial.

When did I name call you? Was it in a similar manner to the way in which

you referred to AA and, by implication, those who hold those views?

>From: doglvr000@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Re: Genetic predisposition (was: Sober as a

>Bush?)

>Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 06:40:55 EDT

>

>In a message dated 7/29/01 5:27:25 AM Central Daylight Time,

>W51@... writes:

>

><< I'm sorry you remain so blinkered in your approach Jan. It is common

>for

>a

> person who becomes so disallusioned with one form of BS to immediately go

>ot

> the other extreme, which usually, in the fullness of time, turns out to

>be

> just as crazy. A Christian? Me?? How far you are from hte truth jan, how

> far. Vaccination can be dangerous as well as unecessary, humans are the

>only

> mammals that take milk after weaning and the benefits of the milk of

>other

> mammals are now also in doubt and i try to take care of my health at a

> primary level via diet and lifestyle prior to illness. Science can and is

> beneficial in certain circumstances but not all. I also use acupuncture,

> homeopathy and other complimentary approaches to conventional medicine

>which

> appear to work quite well. >>

>

>:

>What extreme have I go to that you refer to? What does blinkered mean? Can

>you disagree without labeling and belittling? BTW - vaccinations have

>saved

>far more lives than not. Thanks to them, you don't have to fear polio, for

>instance. What form of acupuncture cures or prevents polio? I get strep

>throat frequently. What alternative medicine do you propose I use to keep

>it

>from progressing to scarlet fever and rheumatic fever which damages the

>heart? Antibiotics always seem to work for me. They are also very helpful

>for the ear infection I seem to get every summer. And I got a pneumonia

>shot

>last fall, and a flu shot. I didn't get either of those illnesses this

>year,

>though many around me did. Science has its uses. Please refrain from name

>calling in your posts. It's not necessary to make your point.

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Taken seriously? By whom? Those who have ears will isten no doubt. Spoon

feeding wisdom thats benefits only my own ego is a stage i long since

passed.

In hindsight many entities can be seen as both manipulative and devious

htough held with sincere integrity at the time. The fact is that it helped

many people begin a lifestyle which was far better than the previous one

they had been living. It has also been a stepping stone for many and has

enabled them to progress into a happier form of existence. That cannot be

denied. It may be deceptive to both you and i but for many it is not. Best

to put our views and experiences upfront and let the individual decide and

not expect to be the paternal leaders you accuse them of being.

I, for one, hold no truck with AA nor its beliefs,(other than in the terms

I have described it) nor the way which it propogates them through society

but do not feel medicating one up to the yes in the long term is helpful

either. Nor is it wise to talk for " humanity " and in universal terms from an

exteremly mypoic cultural base.

One of the best places to meet thieves,liars, cons, sociopaths and the

plain emotionally ignorant (or uncaring)are in the halls of Congress, the

senate or any Corporate Board meeting. Alcohol is an optional extra.

>From: doglvr000@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Re: Genetic predisposition (was: Sober as a

>Bush?)

>Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 07:04:43 EDT

>

>,

>Yes, people should think for themselves, however, if you make some general

>claim, and want it to be taken seriously and thoughtfully, perhaps you

>could

>try being more specific.

>As to aa, you still haven't addressed the deceptive nature in which it was

>conceived, nor it's continuing deceptive nature. Nor the fact that it

>exacerbates many people problems more than it helps them. Nor the fact

>that

>it's a great place to meet liars, cons, thieves, sociopaths, and the plain

>ignorant and helpless. In light of what aa truly is - Oxford Group

>Movement

>continued - a religion, with front men in treatment facilities, prisons,

>and

>the National Counsel on Alcohol and Drug Abuse through with it receives

>millions of federal dollars creating a state supported religion - it's far

>from extreme to renounce it. I think it's time to expose and oppose it.

>Jan

>Oh also, I think Steve's emotional age is rather mature.

>------------------------------------------

>In a message dated 7/29/01 5:53:15 AM Central Daylight Time,

>W51@... writes:

>

><< There are moderates on both sides of the divide and I feel that they

>help

> people a lot more than the extremists do. Though those in here see AA to

>be

> misguided it have been the first step to a recovery of sorts for many.

> Changing ones life and understanding can be approached from many angles

>and

> moved on from when one is ready.Without it many would not, could not,

>have

> moved on to the positions they now hold in their refutation of it. In

>much

> the same way medications have also been used short term as a help to

>see

> people through a crisis and they may have not achieved a better life

>without

> their help in the beginning.

> One who is skilled with words can imply many certainties and prejudices

> which escape the less literate. That is why I keep my comments to a

>minimum.

> People should think for themselves.

> In school if a teacher instructs that 2 + 2 = 5 then the brighest child

>in

> class is he/she who can regurgitate that erroneous answer the fastest.

>This

> relationship to heirarchy carries on into adulthood for many, many

>people. A

> man who repeats whqat they do not understand is no more than an ass

>carrying

> books. Do not confuse being well read with being knowledgable because it

> does not follow.

> I thought I had made the link between age and emotional understanding

> quite clear in my earlier posts.

>

>

> >From: doglvr000@...

> >Reply-To: 12-step-free

> >To: 12-step-free

> >Subject: Re: Re: Genetic predisposition (was: Sober as a

> >Bush?)

> >Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 06:32:38 EDT

> >

> >In a message dated 7/29/01 5:21:06 AM Central Daylight Time,

> >W51@... writes:

> >

> ><< A Stepper? Good heavens no. Does everyone that has a variant on your

> >views

> > have to be labeled and thus discarded so the views you hold remain

>firm

> >in

> > light of contradiction? I have been to aadeproramming.com on many

> >occasions

> > but i have little time for extremists on either side. >>

> >

> >:

> >No, I don't need anyone to agree with me completely about anything. I

> >don't

> >believe aadeprogramming.com is extremist. It's very factual and a good

> >source of information as to the true nature of 12 step groups. aa is

>scary

> >and well financed by the federal govt. to the tune of millions of

>dollars.

> >I

> >apologize if I have labeled you. You do seem anti science, and kind of

> >hostile to Steve. Steve's post are usually more specific than yours -

>you

> >tend towards generalities. But keep on posting. I don't have to agree

> >with

> >you. I don't have to agree with anyone. If you would read the posts

> >between

> >Mona and Steve, it would be apparent that they respectfully disagree

>many

> >times. However, you have flamed at Steve with questions like how old is

> >he?

> >What the hell difference does that make? Such a question undermines

>your

> >credibility, not his.

> >Jan

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So Mona, what is killfilter? And who is ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 7/29/01 9:33:08 AM Central Daylight Time,

MonaHolland@... writes:

<< n a message dated 7/29/01 12:34:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

W51@... writes:

> Both sit on the margins to validate their own

> fragile reality.

>

>

As opposed to a an asshole such as yourself.

Figure it out Goeroge, I've seen you in action before, and will not --

under

any circumstnces -- engage you in substantive discussion. Keep posting to

me

and all I'll do is send back abuse and insults.

You've been warned.

--Mona-- >>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/29/01 9:41:42 AM Central Daylight Time,

MonaHolland@... writes:

<< In a message dated 7/29/01 1:07:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

WOW MONA!!! YOU'RE REALLY FUCKING GOOD AT THIS!!!

Jan

W51@... writes:

> You appear to have much misplaced faith Steve. How old are you?

>

Steve is my 3-year-old son. Quite the prodigy, eh? Now, drag your knuckles

back to the cave Georgie....

--Mona-- >>

[Guest guest]

So Mona, what is killfilter? And who is ?

It's a "plonk" mechanism that allows you to screen out any posts from a particular email address.

is a contrarian who sees this list as a fertile field in which to send diatribes to one and all, consistently taking the opposing viewpoint merely for the "pleasure" he derives in doing so. He's a dickhead.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/29/01 11:44:29 AM Central Daylight Time,

MonaHolland@... writes:

<< > So Mona, what is killfilter? And who is ?

>

Mona:

Yes, is a dickhead. Thanks for killfilter info.

Jan

It's a " plonk " mechanism that allows you to screen out any posts from a

particular email address.

is a contrarian who sees this list as a fertile field in which to

send

diatribes to one and all, consistently taking the opposing viewpoint merely

for the " pleasure " he derives in doing so. He's a dickhead.

--Mona-- >>

[Guest guest]

:

It is clear - you are fucking idiot.

Jan

---------------------------------

In a message dated 7/29/01 5:53:15 AM Central Daylight Time,

W51@... writes:

<< There are moderates on both sides of the divide and I feel that they help

people a lot more than the extremists do. Though those in here see AA to be

misguided it have been the first step to a recovery of sorts for many.

Changing ones life and understanding can be approached from many angles and

moved on from when one is ready.Without it many would not, could not, have

moved on to the positions they now hold in their refutation of it. In much

the same way medications have also been used short term as a help to see

people through a crisis and they may have not achieved a better life without

their help in the beginning.

One who is skilled with words can imply many certainties and prejudices

which escape the less literate. That is why I keep my comments to a minimum.

People should think for themselves.

In school if a teacher instructs that 2 + 2 = 5 then the brighest child in

class is he/she who can regurgitate that erroneous answer the fastest. This

relationship to heirarchy carries on into adulthood for many, many people. A

man who repeats whqat they do not understand is no more than an ass carrying

books. Do not confuse being well read with being knowledgable because it

does not follow.

I thought I had made the link between age and emotional understanding

quite clear in my earlier posts. >>

[Guest guest]

:

Herbal remedies etc. aren't scientifically benchmarked and proven. I'll take

the polio and measles shots and you can take a flying fuck to the moon.

Jan

PS. in reference to the brightest child, you obviously aren't it. Put a

spell check on your email preferences. Your spelling sucks as much as you

do.

----------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 7/29/01 6:02:12 AM Central Daylight Time,

W51@... writes:

<< Better personal hygeine and community sanitary conditions prevent the

spread

of polio Jan. Look to the foods you eat for remedies for sore throats and

other common ailments. There are many herbal rememdies out there in

addiction to what one eats as food. They have the natural balances in them,

refined over the millenia by the forces of nature and conducive to our

complex body. Spending time researching these areas can be beneficial.

When did I name call you? Was it in a similar manner to the way in which

you referred to AA and, by implication, those who hold those views? >>

[Guest guest]

Calling people names solves nothing Jan. I may be a " f-cking idiot " as you

suggest but have i to take your word for it or do you have some explainable

reason for that fairly juvenile utterance?

>From: doglvr000@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Re: Genetic predisposition (was: Sober as a

>Bush?)

>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:23:46 EDT

>

>:

>It is clear - you are fucking idiot.

>Jan

>---------------------------------

>In a message dated 7/29/01 5:53:15 AM Central Daylight Time,

>W51@... writes:

>

><< There are moderates on both sides of the divide and I feel that they

>help

> people a lot more than the extremists do. Though those in here see AA to

>be

> misguided it have been the first step to a recovery of sorts for many.

> Changing ones life and understanding can be approached from many angles

>and

> moved on from when one is ready.Without it many would not, could not,

>have

> moved on to the positions they now hold in their refutation of it. In

>much

> the same way medications have also been used short term as a help to

>see

> people through a crisis and they may have not achieved a better life

>without

> their help in the beginning.

> One who is skilled with words can imply many certainties and prejudices

> which escape the less literate. That is why I keep my comments to a

>minimum.

> People should think for themselves.

> In school if a teacher instructs that 2 + 2 = 5 then the brighest child

>in

> class is he/she who can regurgitate that erroneous answer the fastest.

>This

> relationship to heirarchy carries on into adulthood for many, many

>people. A

> man who repeats whqat they do not understand is no more than an ass

>carrying

> books. Do not confuse being well read with being knowledgable because it

> does not follow.

> I thought I had made the link between age and emotional understanding

> quite clear in my earlier posts. >>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Hurling juvenile insults at people whom you disagree with might help vent

whatever anger you have stored up in your psyche but will do little to get

to the bottom of whatever causes it. The exploration of the internal can be

just as beneficial, more so in my opinion, than continuing to search

externally for problems which you can solve by following through on simple

decisions. You seem to see science in terms as infallible as those who, a

few centuries ago, saw the Pope.

>From: doglvr000@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: Re: Genetic predisposition (was: Sober as a

>Bush?)

>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:27:16 EDT

>

>:

>Herbal remedies etc. aren't scientifically benchmarked and proven. I'll

>take

>the polio and measles shots and you can take a flying fuck to the moon.

>Jan

>

>PS. in reference to the brightest child, you obviously aren't it. Put a

>spell check on your email preferences. Your spelling sucks as much as you

>do.

>----------------------------------------------------

>In a message dated 7/29/01 6:02:12 AM Central Daylight Time,

>W51@... writes:

><< Better personal hygeine and community sanitary conditions prevent the

>spread

> of polio Jan. Look to the foods you eat for remedies for sore throats and

> other common ailments. There are many herbal rememdies out there in

> addiction to what one eats as food. They have the natural balances in

>them,

> refined over the millenia by the forces of nature and conducive to our

> complex body. Spending time researching these areas can be beneficial.

> When did I name call you? Was it in a similar manner to the way in

>which

> you referred to AA and, by implication, those who hold those views? >>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

:

Go away.

Jan