Re: Violent Toddlers - surely I'm not alone

December 9, 2000

Of course you are not alone, , though I think this situation causes

more bad feeling than just about any other at toddler groups! It can have

unfortunate effects, too, if a child fell heavily onto a toy, or chair etc.

One strategy is to remove your child whenever he pushes anyone. He needs to

have it explained to him what you will do, if he pushes. if he then pushes

someone remind him that you said you would have to leave if he pushed

anyone, then leave. But only do this if you are prepared to carry out the

action!!

Another strategy is to closely follow him round and intervene if you think

he is about to push, explaining that he isn't to push people because they

don't like it.

Good luck.

Lesley

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I have been having a really bad time recently with my 2 and a half year old

pushing other children at toddler group with great energy and

determination. The leaader of the toddler group refuses to believe that a)

this is not unusual behaviour for a toddler or that other children do

worse things than push children over. There must be some good stories out

there and some useful strategies!

December 12, 2000

RE: Violent Toddlers - surely I'm not alone

>

> Perhaps if your child was on the receiving end and you'd had to take her

> home with blood pouring from a cut, as I have done, you might have a

> different view of the subject.

>

> Lesley

>

Well, thankfully mine have never made anyone bleed. It must have been

upsetting for you, and obviously you feel that the situation was not dealt

with very well. Sorry, when I said I just pretended they weren't mine, that

was supposed to be lighthearted.

However, one thing I have learnt from all this is that blaming the parents

and getting cross with them is of absolutely no help at all. They need

support and reassurance. They feel bad enough about it already, especially

if something awful has happened such as a cut as you describe. Parents of

violent toddlers do, surprisingly enough, have feelings and can appreciate

that what their child did was wrong. They don't need other people's spoken

or unspoken criticism or judgment - usually they are already judging

themselves.

I have befriended people who have felt lonely and isolated because of

behaviour problems with their children - to the extent that they have

stopped attending social activities. They stay at home, lonely and

miserable, blaming the child and blaming themselves, and the whole family

can suffer as a result. Hardly good for our community as a whole.

wrote:

Also there is a difference between a child who has an attention seeking

tantrum, which is annoying but doesn't actually harm anyone, and a child who

is pushing/hitting and upsetting other children.

While I agree there is a difference in the outcome (i.e., other children are

involved), I still think this is often attention seeking behaviour. Mum is

chatting to all the other mothers at the Toddler Group and not taking any

notice of toddler. Toddler pushes other child - instant attention - mother

intervenes and gives toddler much more attention than he was previously

getting. Behaviour then gets repeated because it works. That's what I meant

about it being difficult - because you can't let them harm other children

but you shouldn't reward their bad behaviour with more attention than they

were previously getting.

Hope that's clear folks! I won't post on this subject again, it's too

upsetting.

Jo

Mother of 3, now without any illusions of being a good parent

December 12, 2000

Jo, you are in good company here (if I can be classed as good!). I have been in

the position of parent of violent child and parent of victim of violent child,

so feel I am qualified to comment. The only people likely to be standing in

judgment of you is the parent who has *never* had to deal with untoward

behaviour in a small child (and I speak as someone who has just come from such a

friend's house - early departure due to unacceptable behaviour of two eldest

children). Most other parents have had to deal with at least one such incident

and are probably empathising with you.

What most parents find unacceptable is not necessarily the behaviour of the

child, but the perceived reaction of the parent. I had a letter home from

school about DS2 knocking off the glasses of another child (and how the head had

given DS2 a good talking too, etc.) However, the child in question is one which

constantly targets DS2 and was apparently hitting DS2 in the face at the time of

the incident. This behaviour is, in my opinion, a direct result of his mother

failing to react at a much earlier age when this child bit DS2. The mother saw

what happened and just grinned and shrugged at me, later confiding that the

child was " a bit of a bugger " . Well, I'm not surprised. Although I dislike the

child's behaviour, I am more angry at the mother's.

Also, being the mother of a child who has been if not violent, then at least a

bit wild, in the past, I know how conscious you are of all eyes being on you and

how this can feel like people judging your parenting skills. As I said before,

most are empathising; only a minority are judging you, and they are probably

mothers of girls, who will get their comeuppance when their children hit their

teens - oh please!

HTH

Alison

also mother of 3 boys

Well, thankfully mine have never made anyone bleed. It must have been

upsetting for you, and obviously you feel that the situation was not dealt

with very well. Sorry, when I said I just pretended they weren't mine, that

was supposed to be lighthearted.

However, one thing I have learnt from all this is that blaming the parents

and getting cross with them is of absolutely no help at all. They need

support and reassurance. They feel bad enough about it already, especially

if something awful has happened such as a cut as you describe. Parents of

violent toddlers do, surprisingly enough, have feelings and can appreciate

that what their child did was wrong. They don't need other people's spoken

or unspoken criticism or judgment - usually they are already judging

themselves.

I have befriended people who have felt lonely and isolated because of

behaviour problems with their children - to the extent that they have

stopped attending social activities. They stay at home, lonely and

miserable, blaming the child and blaming themselves, and the whole family

can suffer as a result. Hardly good for our community as a whole.

December 12, 2000

As I said before, most are

> empathising; only a minority are judging you, and they are

> probably mothers of girls, who will get their comeuppance when

> their children hit their teens - oh please!

>

Alison -NOOO please, she's bad enough already!

Seriously though I do think boys are more physical than girls (maybe we're

back to Nature vs Nurture again)

Cerys

December 12, 2000

As I said before, most are empathising; only a minority are judging you,

and they are probably mothers of girls, who will get their comeuppance when

their children hit their teens - oh please!

you mean it gets worse??????!!!!!!!!

please no! don't wish that on me

Angi mother of 2 girls 3 going on 13 and 1.5 going on 15 at least!!

(and girls push & shove too....you'd better believe it!!)

December 12, 2000

.. As I said before, most are empathising; only a minority are judging you, and

they are probably mothers of girls, who will get their comeuppance when their

children hit their teens - oh please!

>

> HTH

>

> Alison

> also mother of 3 boys

Pleeeese don't say this. Being exhausted mother of the original wild child tom

boy who is determined to turn me into screaming, gray haired, hag mother DH & I

were hoping that she might just possibly calm down as a teenager. FWIW both

girls were biters as small and I always warned everybody that if they showed

signs of being overexcited or frustrated they would bite. Luckily very few

incidents as I knew the warning signs watched them like a hawk and removed

offending offspring pronto.Mind you dd2 did bite my bum on several occasions.

Small incident from s first week at school (a few years ago)

Boy (aged 7) (good friend of DD1) - You're fat

dd2 - no I'm not

B - yes you are

dd2 - (Lifts dress to expose slim, whippet thin body) NOT

B - Well you've got a fat head then

dd2 - 'POW'

Boy floored by swift right fist that would have done Tyson proud.

Both sent to see Head.

Mother of boy (whom I like) 'that'll teach him not to pick on small girls'

I have to say I had great difficulty in not seeing it as quite funny and being

pleased that dd2 stood up for herself. DD1 totally mortified. We did have

serious discussion that thumping boys was not on and she has only done it once

since when once again a boy was shoving her about.

Caroline

Jersey

December 12, 2000

Angi Nutt wrote:

>

> Angi mother of 2 girls 3 going on 13 and 1.5 going on 15 at least!!

> (and girls push & shove too....you'd better believe it!!)

>

Yup! Girls are worse than boys! Kitty at 1.5y is far more moody /stroppy etc.

than ever was!

December 12, 2000

I have to say that boys who are brought up with sisters *are* quite different

from boys raised in all male households. My younger sister has a girl and boy

and the boy *reverts to type* when in the company of my three. At all other

times, he is a token girl!

Alison

Yup! Girls are worse than boys! Kitty at 1.5y is far more moody /stroppy etc.

than ever was!

December 13, 2000

JMHO, but I've always regarded Toddler groups as for the child rather than

the parent, however nice it is for adults to socialise. If it is causing so

much conflict to attend, then perhaps the time isn't right. There could be a

break from it for a while and then things may go more smoothly, with the

benefit of a few months maturity. I have found this a very effective

strategy with playgroup and nursery problems.

Lesley

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