Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

of Chronic Disease

> I agree too. The human system is riddled with issues that are inherited or developed

and a ‘change’ is not going to propel everyone into the mythical land of physical perfection.

Some things are not repairable and some things are not preventable.

If wanting to be well again or reading a book would fix it, I'd be the first one in line!

Nina

[Guest guest]

I so

agree with Jenni. She said (something like) people will tell you what worked

for them

and have

a tendency to see it as the ultimate solution.

Everything

seems so clear, then. Sometimes what they have done is their cure, sometimes

it coincided

with a remission… it’s like feeling the first rush after being

forgiven and ‘knowing’

in your

soul you’ll never make another mistake…

I’m

all for nutrition, like I’ve said a bigillion times I use usana nutritionals

to stay as healthy

as possible

and it has lifted me from a terrible place, but I don’t believe nutrition

is the cure –

at least

not in the way we would need. All symptoms have to stop, no fatigue… etc.

(you guys

remember

that email about remission? It has to go further than that.)

Proper

nutrition supports the immune system, but it doesn’t determine it’s

function.

The body

is waaaay complicated. The immune system is a conundrum, there are hundreds of

other immune

diseases that plague folk. I would go on the road to tell parents and children

about

it, if we had a cure for any of them.

It’s

about acceptance, imo. ‘Cause you can’t see RA, and you hate it and

you can’t get your hands

around it

cause it fluctuates; cause it snuck up on you and knocked you down and there

aren’t

after

school specials dramatizing it, or big stars revealing that they live with it;

cause it feels like

being

old and you’re so dang young; ‘cause your wife says you’re

just lazy and people scowl at you

when you

park in a blue space… the agony of doubt/the question of legitimacy is haunting.

We all

tend to want it to evaporate…

I don’t

know. I’d get rid of it in a second. But I’m getting tags and I’m

getting a dog and I’m

getting my

exercise and eating right… I’m gonna live with this, so I can LIVE.

I’ll

let the researchers find the cure. I’m doing my best along the way.

Ugh. I

need a vacation I think. lol

-----Original Message-----

From: Nina

[mailto:ncampbell@...]

Sent: Sunday, April

10, 2005 6:35 PM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

of Chronic Disease

> I agree too. The human system is riddled with issues that are

inherited or developed

and a ‘change’ is not going to propel everyone into the

mythical land of physical perfection.

Some things are not repairable and some things are not preventable.

If wanting to be well again or reading a book would fix it, I'd be

the first one in line!

Nina

[Guest guest]

Hi, you referred to using USANA nutritionals, may I ask exactly what you take each day.......I assume the Essentials, but do you also add proflavinol C, and the eccential fatty acids? I believe the USANA nutritionals are an excellent product.

When I took the USANA and had some success, I was taking the Essentials, proflavinol C, essential fatty acids, extra calcium, glucosomine and CoQ10. This combination worked pretty well for me but was still missing the live plant enzymes that I needed. I found that in the summer months when I was eating from the garden I felt pretty good but then once the garden was done something seemed missing, I've since realized it was the live plant enzymes.

The proflavinol C is excellent for helping fight inflamation, on bad days I found taking higher doses of just this one product helped alot.

What has been your experience?

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 4:25 PM

Subject: RE: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

I so agree with Jenni. She said (something like) people will tell you what worked for them

and have a tendency to see it as the ultimate solution.

Everything seems so clear, then. Sometimes what they have done is their cure, sometimes

it coincided with a remission… it’s like feeling the first rush after being forgiven and ‘knowing’

in your soul you’ll never make another mistake…

I’m all for nutrition, like I’ve said a bigillion times I use usana nutritionals to stay as healthy

as possible and it has lifted me from a terrible place, but I don’t believe nutrition is the cure –

at least not in the way we would need. All symptoms have to stop, no fatigue… etc. (you guys

remember that email about remission? It has to go further than that.)

Proper nutrition supports the immune system, but it doesn’t determine it’s function.

The body is waaaay complicated. The immune system is a conundrum, there are hundreds of

other immune diseases that plague folk. I would go on the road to tell parents and children

about it, if we had a cure for any of them.

It’s about acceptance, imo. ‘Cause you can’t see RA, and you hate it and you can’t get your hands

around it cause it fluctuates; cause it snuck up on you and knocked you down and there aren’t

after school specials dramatizing it, or big stars revealing that they live with it; cause it feels like

being old and you’re so dang young; ‘cause your wife says you’re just lazy and people scowl at you

when you park in a blue space… the agony of doubt/the question of legitimacy is haunting.

We all tend to want it to evaporate…

I don’t know. I’d get rid of it in a second. But I’m getting tags and I’m getting a dog and I’m

getting my exercise and eating right… I’m gonna live with this, so I can LIVE.

I’ll let the researchers find the cure. I’m doing my best along the way.

Ugh. I need a vacation I think. lol

-----Original Message-----From: Nina [mailto:ncampbell@...] Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:35 PMRheumatoid Arthritis Subject: Re: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

of Chronic Disease

> I agree too. The human system is riddled with issues that are inherited or developed

and a ‘change’ is not going to propel everyone into the mythical land of physical perfection.

Some things are not repairable and some things are not preventable.

If wanting to be well again or reading a book would fix it, I'd be the first one in line!

Nina

[Guest guest]

Hi

,

Isn’t

Usana great? I’ve seen it do some great things for my sis and myself.

Really love usana.

I take the

vitamin pack (the essentials) and macro-optimizers (fibergy, soyamax, nutimeal)…

I had

some bars

once and loved them.

I’m

a vegetarian and kind of a health nut (my alter ego is a fruitarian), so I’m

used to supplements

and

drinks, but usana is by far the best I’ve had.

Currently,

I can’t afford to use more, but plan to in the near future.

I

started Usana after my sister (who had been trying everything to get pregnant

for 7 years) did the

cleanse and

got pregnant that month.

I’ve

heard just about everything there is to say about nutrition products, since my

father was a

body builder

and my mother a nutritionist, so I didn’t put much weight to it, until I

heard my sis’

experience.

Then I knew it was worth a try.

I could

barely walk. My day was divided up in three hour increments, etc. etc.

The day

I started the vitamins things started getting better immediately, like a burst

of fresh air.

Yep. Usana

definitely works for me… saved my life, brought ra progression to a virtual

standstill.

I have

significant joint damage and moderate flares… It’s worked as well

as I’ve heard any of the

other meds

have worked for others. If I run out of the essentials I slip backwards, but

getting back

on them

puts me back in a good place. I think I only fall short in pain management.

But it

hasn’t been a cure and it won’t be. My immune system has always

been in overdrive and a

patch of

uncommonly stressful existence prompted it to protect me into oblivion. It’s

been smoldering

in the

underbrush probably since junior high when I first began experiencing stiffness

and pain in my

hands…

it came out a little bit more in college, when my feet became cardboard in the

night…

I’ve

always been extremely active (walking, running, weight training several times a

week on a regular

basis)

but until I get old enough to get a doctor to go along with joint replacements,

it’ll be some

time

before I can get the sweat I adore with no pain. I get my sweat anyway, but it

would be nice

to get

rid of the pain.

I’ve

got it in just about every joint but I can function extremely well, and I’m

aware of the blessing

of time.

I’ve got a whole lot of life ahead of me and want any progression to go

as slowly as possible.

I use

one or two forearm crutches for standing or walking…

I can’t

wait to meet the pill that can convince the thing that is RA to cool its jets.

Love/peace

Yellow

-----Original Message-----

From: Dorey

[mailto:ddorey@...]

Sent: Sunday, April

10, 2005 8:41 PM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Hi, you referred to using USANA

nutritionals, may I ask exactly what you take each day.......I assume the

Essentials, but do you also add proflavinol C, and the eccential fatty

acids? I believe the USANA nutritionals are an excellent product.

When I took the USANA and had some

success, I was taking the Essentials, proflavinol C, essential fatty acids,

extra calcium, glucosomine and CoQ10. This combination worked pretty well

for me but was still missing the live plant enzymes that I needed. I

found that in the summer months when I was eating from the garden I felt pretty

good but then once the garden was done something seemed missing, I've since

realized it was the live plant enzymes.

The proflavinol C is excellent for

helping fight inflamation, on bad days I found taking higher doses of just this

one product helped alot.

What has been your experience?

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10,

2005 4:25 PM

Subject: RE:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

I so agree with Jenni. She said (something like) people will tell

you what worked for them

and have a tendency to see it as the ultimate solution.

Everything seems so clear, then. Sometimes what they have done is

their cure, sometimes

it coincided with a remission… it’s like feeling the

first rush after being forgiven and ‘knowing’

in your soul you’ll never make another mistake…

I’m all for nutrition, like I’ve said a bigillion times

I use usana nutritionals to stay as healthy

as possible and it has lifted me from a terrible place, but I

don’t believe nutrition is the cure –

at least not in the way we would need. All symptoms have to stop,

no fatigue… etc. (you guys

remember that email about remission? It has to go further than

that.)

Proper nutrition supports the immune system, but it doesn’t

determine it’s function.

The body is waaaay complicated. The immune system is a conundrum,

there are hundreds of

other immune diseases that plague folk. I would go on the road to

tell parents and children

about it, if we had a cure for any of them.

It’s about acceptance, imo. ‘Cause you can’t see

RA, and you hate it and you can’t get your hands

around it cause it fluctuates; cause it snuck up on you and knocked

you down and there aren’t

after school specials dramatizing it, or big stars revealing that

they live with it; cause it feels like

being old and you’re so dang young; ‘cause your wife

says you’re just lazy and people scowl at you

when you park in a blue space… the agony of doubt/the

question of legitimacy is haunting.

We all tend to want it to evaporate…

I don’t know. I’d get rid of it in a second. But

I’m getting tags and I’m getting a dog and I’m

getting my exercise and eating right… I’m gonna live

with this, so I can LIVE.

I’ll let the researchers find the cure. I’m doing my

best along the way.

Ugh. I need a vacation I think. lol

-----Original Message-----

From: Nina

[mailto:ncampbell@...]

Sent: Sunday, April

10, 2005 6:35 PM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

of Chronic Disease

> I agree too. The human system is riddled with issues that are

inherited or developed

and a ‘change’ is not going to propel everyone into the

mythical land of physical perfection.

Some things are not repairable and some things are not preventable.

If wanting to be well again or reading a book would fix it, I'd be

the first one in line!

Nina

[Guest guest]

Hi Nina, it goes way beyond classifying one as a Type A personality. If I may I would like to share with you an experience I had in an effort to show you that it's not intentional when "our minds assist us" in creating a health challenge.

I went to a seminar in San Diego, these seminars I attend are very costly and often lead to further study's. Always at these seminars there is a "special offer" for attending future seminars at a reduced price only if you make a decision during the present seminar. OK, so on with my story.

I leave for San Diego at 3am Thursday morning, I'm feeling great. Upon arriving in San Diego I mention to the ladies I'm with that it feels like I've gained 10 lbs virtually overnight and we laugh about this a bit but don't think too much more about it.

The next day I suddenly had pains I hadn't felt for 2 years. Remember I'm at a seminar I want to be at, enjoying myself. So at this point I'm thinking well I suppose it could be the lack of sleep (but I often have had sleepless nights without trouble). Could be the flight (except I flew to Greece, no sleep, long flight without any trouble). So I'm a little confused. I get through the day and that evening realize my right leg is swollen to twice it's size all the way up to my knee, my hands are swollen and my wrist. I didn't bring extra Limu because I haven't needed any extra support for so long.

When I awoke in the morning the symptoms were the same so finally I stood and asked the instructor of this seminar if he had any suggestions on what could be causing this. I explained I had fought the battle against RA with success for 2 years and suddenly arrived in San Diego to what I considered a full flare. He did have an answer but this was very advanced, too advanced for the particular class I was taking and directed me to where I would learn this info.........however suddenly, like a flash I the answer came to me, it was very strange, I suddenly quit hearing this instructor speak, stood there stunned.

The reason I had this trouble was because I wasn't willing to make a decision about future courses.....but as well, I wasn't willing to admit to myself the reason why I wouldn't make a commitment. (The reason was, my husband would be very upset if I didn't consult him first) My being a very independent person don't like to admit that I sometimes need to "grovel" a little to do my studies. Anyway, suddenly this came to me and I thought about it and realized, this makes sense, all weekend I had been saying, I can't commit to other seminars, look what it's doing to my health.

On to the story........after this "flash of info" came to me it was amazing how without changing a thing I started to recover, it was gradual but by the next morning almost all the inflamation was gone. (I had done nothing different) We got up, I felt pretty good and as the day progressed I continued feeling better and better. Got on the plane to come home and by the time we arrived home I was back to normal.

I'm not wacko, and I do understand all of this stuff yet I still used my disease (unknowingly) to create a reason for doing what I was going to do anyway.

I hope I explained this in a way that others can relate. As I've said, I truly believe health is a combination of physical and mental/spiritual health. When we have anything causing dis-ease in our minds or bodies we leave ourselves in a position of creating dis-ease in the form of an auto immune disorder or illness.

Anyway, see if you relate to this in anyway.......What Louise says is part of the mind set of a typical RA sufferer is..........Someone who has a deep criticism of authority. Feeling of being "put upon". In the other book she writes more definitions, but I can't locate it and part is a feeling of being unloved.

All of this fit me.............I'm changing that.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Nina

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:05 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

----- Original Message -----

From: Dorey

> I can very often pick the autoimmune disorder a person has before they tell me based on the personality they have revealed.

I think type A personalities tend to get autoimmune problems more than others simply because they work themselves into being run down.

If there were a way to talk myself out of being sick, I would have done it by now.

Nina

[Guest guest]

Want to know the personality type of someone that suffers MS..........they are the easiest. People who let every little thing eat away at their nervous system, these are the type to get MS. There's a little more to it than that, but, there's a generality.

You can believe, or not, as you like, but I guarantee you that you did not develop RA because you weren't taking medication.

There's a movie that kind of explains some of this, It's called "What the Bleep do we know" it's all on Quantum Physics and may shock you if you watch it, of course some people are open to believing this type of thing, others not, but it opens up a whole new way to see things. Suggests that we do manifest much of what exists in our lives.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 3:26 PM

Subject: RE: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

I’ve had people tell me what kind of man I should marry based on my favorite color.

I’ve also had people tell me that RA is psychosomatic.

I’ve heard people say that cancer is, too.

Wonder why you don’t hear people say Parkinson’s and MS are?

Gotta have something to do with the blood….

(yellow wanders off in a sort of a huff, thinking how her personality may have drastically

altered her body’s future. She backhands her well wishes to the group and wishes she

were in a limo on her way to a U2 concert in NY.)

-----Original Message-----From: Dorey [mailto:ddorey@...] Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:14 PMRheumatoid Arthritis Subject: Re: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Hi Nina, I will refer you to the book You Can Heal Your Own Body, by Louise L. You can probably pick this up at the libraby. Of course this book just follows my line of belief but I recommend you read it, much of my belief began with this book......I can very often pick the autoimmune disorder a person has before they tell me based on the personality they have revealed.

I have many reasons for my beliefs.......I'm the only female in my family in 2 generations that hasn't had thryoid problems by the age of 40. I'm the only one in the family who does have RA.

Anyway I encourage you to read this book, check out the personality traits for each dis-ease listed and see if they don't fit.

It's not only what we eat that matters, it's also what we feed our minds......but the mind is very tricky so it's not always clear when we are not feeding it healthy thoughts.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Nina

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:54 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

----- Original Message -----

From: Marcia Stoyle

> I agree! I have RA, OA and fibro. my sister has thyroid problems, asdoes my younger daughter. my older daughter has Raynaud's. gentle

Because of genetic factors, many people have the propensity to develop autoimmune disorders. Some people will, some people won't. From what I've read and been told, it is often a trigger of some sort that will push an individual over that edge. It can be stress, environmental trigger or another illness or some sort of assault on the body (such as surgery).

On the PBC list I'm on (about 2200 people worldwide), the two things almost everyone has in common is we had our gallbladders out before we were diagnosed and we were exposed to DDT. So there's an example of an illness (or any assault on your body such as surgery) and an environmental (chemical) trigger.

Many of the people I know with Sjogren's Syndrome developed the disease after they had pneumonia (there's the illness). Many people with Fibro (which many consider to be an autoimmune disease) get it due to an injury (such as a car wreck or a fall). In my case, it was a fall at work.

As for genetics, many now consider asthma to be autoimmune. My grandfather had it, my mother had it, I have it, my sister has it, her son has it, my daughter has it, several of my cousins have it. That's what they mean by "clustering" within a family. My mother had psoriasis, though I don't (yet). So there's the genetic component for me to have the propensity to have autoimmune diseases. My oldest sister has Fibro and my next oldest sister has ocular rosacea (sp?).

There are a large number of mothers and daughters that have PBC. So many, in fact, that they are currently doing a study on it. As for Sjogren's, they believe it's a gene you get from both parents, which would explain why mothers and daughters don't usually get it, but siblings do.

I just wish it were so simple that we weren't living right and we could change our destiny by diet, exercise, or whatever. As for medications, I can say that I am one of those people that rarely in her whole life even took a Tylenol, so it surely is not medications. Unfortunately, with autoimmune diseases, it just doesn't work that way.

Nina

[Guest guest]

*chuckles*

and did you know that the Bible says the same thing? It's in Proverbs, chapter 23 and says as a man thinks, so he is. And as I get older, I see it for myself all the time, both in my life and in other people - we've been given a great power in our minds and most of the time we don't even realize it.

Blessings - kins

-------Original Message-------

From: Dorey

Date: 04/10/05 22:00:57

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Want to know the personality type of someone that suffers MS..........they are the easiest. People who let every little thing eat away at their nervous system, these are the type to get MS. There's a little more to it than that, but, there's a generality.

You can believe, or not, as you like, but I guarantee you that you did not develop RA because you weren't taking medication.

There's a movie that kind of explains some of this, It's called "What the Bleep do we know" it's all on Quantum Physics and may shock you if you watch it, of course some people are open to believing this type of thing, others not, but it opens up a whole new way to see things. Suggests that we do manifest much of what exists in our lives.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

[Guest guest]

What

exactly does that mean, “people who let every little thing eat away at

their nervous system” ?

Kind of

a confusing statement.

What

would be really nice, is if we could use language that would avoid giving the impression

that

we

promote some kind of modified version of ‘survival of the fittest’…

See, I

am a type A, aren’t I?

Girl I

know who got MS is a very easy-going girl. She was married to a guy who became

abusive,

probably

put more than average strain on her system. Wish she could have reacted better,

but

none of

us are perfect, right?

Funny

thing is, she got in touch with a European researcher who thinks he found a

cure… She’s

off steroids

and doing better… I wish her and her defective personality all the luck

she can get.

-----Original Message-----

From: Dorey

[mailto:ddorey@...]

Sent: Sunday, April

10, 2005 11:00 PM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Want to know the personality type of

someone that suffers MS..........they are the easiest. People who let

every little thing eat away at their nervous system, these are the type to get

MS. There's a little more to it than that, but, there's a generality.

You can believe, or not, as you

like, but I guarantee you that you did not develop RA because you weren't

taking medication.

There's a movie that kind of

explains some of this, It's called " What the Bleep do we

know " it's all on Quantum Physics and may shock you if you

watch it, of course some people are open to believing this type of thing,

others not, but it opens up a whole new way to see things. Suggests that

we do manifest much of what exists in our lives.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10,

2005 3:26 PM

Subject: RE:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

I’ve had people tell me what kind of man I should marry based

on my favorite color.

I’ve also had people tell me that RA is psychosomatic.

I’ve heard people say that cancer is, too.

Wonder why you don’t hear people say Parkinson’s and MS

are?

Gotta have something to do with the blood….

(yellow wanders off in a sort of a huff, thinking how her

personality may have drastically

altered her body’s future. She backhands her well wishes to

the group and wishes she

were in a limo on her way to a U2 concert in NY.)

-----Original Message-----

From: Dorey

[mailto:ddorey@...]

Sent: Sunday, April

10, 2005 12:14 PM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Hi Nina, I will refer you to the

book You Can Heal Your Own Body, by Louise L.

You can probably pick this up at the

libraby. Of course this book just follows my line of belief but I

recommend you read it, much of my belief began with this book......I can very

often pick the autoimmune disorder a person has before they tell me based on

the personality they have revealed.

I have many reasons for my

beliefs.......I'm the only female in my family in 2 generations that hasn't had

thryoid problems by the age of 40. I'm the only one in the family who

does have RA.

Anyway I encourage you to read this

book, check out the personality traits for each dis-ease listed and see if they

don't fit.

It's not only what we eat that

matters, it's also what we feed our minds......but the mind is very tricky so

it's not always clear when we are not feeding it healthy thoughts.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Nina

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10,

2005 8:54 AM

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

----- Original Message -----

From: Marcia Stoyle

> I agree! I have RA, OA and fibro. my

sister has thyroid problems, as

does my younger daughter. my older daughter

has Raynaud's. gentle

Because

of genetic factors, many people have the propensity to develop autoimmune

disorders. Some people will, some people won't. From what I've read

and been told, it is often a trigger of some sort that will push an individual

over that edge. It can be stress, environmental trigger or another

illness or some sort of assault on the body (such as surgery).

On

the PBC list I'm on (about 2200 people worldwide), the two things almost

everyone has in common is we had our gallbladders out before we were diagnosed

and we were exposed to DDT. So there's an example of an illness (or any

assault on your body such as surgery) and an environmental (chemical) trigger.

Many

of the people I know with Sjogren's Syndrome developed the disease after they

had pneumonia (there's the illness). Many people with Fibro (which many

consider to be an autoimmune disease) get it due to an injury (such as a

car wreck or a fall). In my case, it was a fall at work.

As

for genetics, many now consider asthma to be autoimmune. My grandfather

had it, my mother had it, I have it, my sister has it, her son has it, my

daughter has it, several of my cousins have it. That's what they mean by

" clustering " within a family. My mother had psoriasis, though I

don't (yet). So there's the genetic component for me to have the

propensity to have autoimmune diseases. My oldest sister has Fibro and my

next oldest sister has ocular rosacea (sp?).

There

are a large number of mothers and daughters that have PBC. So many,

in fact, that they are currently doing a study on it. As for Sjogren's,

they believe it's a gene you get from both parents, which would explain why

mothers and daughters don't usually get it, but siblings do.

I

just wish it were so simple that we weren't living right and we could change

our destiny by diet, exercise, or whatever. As for medications, I

can say that I am one of those people that rarely in her whole life even took a

Tylenol, so it surely is not medications. Unfortunately, with autoimmune

diseases, it just doesn't work that way.

Nina

[Guest guest]

‘as

a man thinks in his heart, so is he’ doesn’t mean that I can be

Korean

if I just focus on it hard enough.

How many

people have died, thinking that they were going to make it?

Well, I

guess their attitude wasn’t strong enough.

Just

like those folks who roll into the healing ceremony and don’t walk out of

it, because their ‘faith

just isn’t

strong enough’.

What

about “woe unto them that believeth a lie”? That’s in the

Bible, too.

Your

attitude is important, but thinking you’re a chicken won’t get you

fresh eggs.

I’ve

known a lot of jerks and stressed people who didn’t get RA or MS or

Cancer or the vapors.

A bored,

frustrated woman isn’t diagnosed as having a wandering uterus anymore and

I’d just

as well

not return to that kind of science.

The body

works like a machine and every part of us, even our attitude/temperament

functions

as a

part of that machine, but anybody that tells you that only people with certain

types of personalities

get

certain diseases is giving you a fraction of the facts…

It’s

mighty darn annoying to be relegated, categorized and blamed at a time when

people are itching

to infuse

the slumbering carcass of eugenics with the spirit of social bigotry.

There is

one book written to support every idea you can conjure.

Try

numerology, strandology, chain letters… (If you forward this the phone

will ring.) ! oh my goodness it did.

Fallacy is

the coolest, cause it’s so near truth.

-----Original Message-----

From: kins, learning to love

my 40's [mailto:farsgraphics@...]

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:13

PM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

*chuckles*

and did you know that the Bible says the same thing?

It's in Proverbs, chapter 23 and says as a man thinks, so he

is. And as I get older, I see it for myself all the time, both

in my life and in other people - we've been given a great power

in our minds and most of the time we don't even realize it.

Blessings - kins

-------Original Message-------

From:

Dorey

Date: 04/10/05 22:00:57

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re: Re: Anemia

of Chronic Disease

Want to know the personality type of someone that suffers

MS..........they are the easiest. People who let every little thing eat

away at their nervous system, these are the type to get MS.

There's a little more to it than that, but, there's a generality.

You can believe, or not, as you like, but I guarantee you

that you did not develop RA because you weren't taking medication.

There's a movie that kind of explains some of this, It's

called " What the Bleep do we know " it's all on Quantum

Physics and may shock you if you watch it, of course some people are open to

believing this type of thing, others not, but it opens up a whole new way to

see things. Suggests that we do manifest much of what exists in our

lives.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

[Guest guest]

I'm not wacko, and I do understand

all of this stuff yet I still used my disease (unknowingly) to create a reason

for doing what I was going to do anyway.

-

Overwhelming.

Sounds

like you’re saying you believe your subconscious thought you might

benefit

from a

flare… a type of rebellion.

Sounds

like you espouse the belief that this (if not all) physical illness is

psychosomatic.

It’s

actually quite fascinating, but it’s a worm on the leaf of advancement

for people

with disabilities.

Love and

peace

Yellow

[Guest guest]

You are being very defensive.........I don't suggest all disease is psychosomatic, and certainly I showed quite clearly that I don't believe disease is caused intentionally by anyone. I mearly suggest that the mind is a very complicated instrument that no one totally understands...........if we don't understand it totally then perhaps we are misprogramming it. (as I clearly did that weekend I spoke of) That is something I am willing to investigate because I have an open mind.......I believe that it's my open mind that allowed me to recover as I have. If I wasn't open to ideas I would never have tried all of the things I have tried........and trust me there are so many that I couldn't list them all. I try things, monitor results and make decisions on whether it was worthwhile for me or not. It has cost me alot of time and money but I am worth every penny and every minute I have spent in this quest to be well. My gift back to society is to share what I have learned and maybe inspire others to find some answers, if they are looking.

This, of course is not for everyone, some people completely believe what their rheumatologist says, that there is no way other than medication, and that's ok.............I never for one minute believed that.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:49 PM

Subject: RE: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

I'm not wacko, and I do understand all of this stuff yet I still used my disease (unknowingly) to create a reason for doing what I was going to do anyway.

-

Overwhelming.

Sounds like you’re saying you believe your subconscious thought you might benefit

from a flare… a type of rebellion.

Sounds like you espouse the belief that this (if not all) physical illness is psychosomatic.

It’s actually quite fascinating, but it’s a worm on the leaf of advancement for people

with disabilities.

Love and peace

Yellow

[Guest guest]

I'm very glad you found a quality nutritional.......but I do highly recommend you add the Proflavinol C (to fight inflamation) and the essential fatty acids, try the capsule, the oil itself is gross tasting. And enzymes to help your digestive system wouldn't hurt, unless you are getting lots of organic fruit and veggies and eating them without cooking or adding any preservatives (commercial salad dressing), both these things kill the enzymes. I don't believe the essentials have enzymes added, unless they have changed in the last 3 or 4 years.

I love their skin care line (Sensei) and use it. I even have my oldest son using the Sensei skin care and it's been very successful in stopping his acne which was important to my husband and I since my husband has terrible scarring from teenage acne. I have beautiful skin, made better perhaps by this product.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 7:37 PM

Subject: RE: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Hi ,

Isn’t Usana great? I’ve seen it do some great things for my sis and myself. Really love usana.

I take the vitamin pack (the essentials) and macro-optimizers (fibergy, soyamax, nutimeal)… I had

some bars once and loved them.

I’m a vegetarian and kind of a health nut (my alter ego is a fruitarian), so I’m used to supplements

and drinks, but usana is by far the best I’ve had.

Currently, I can’t afford to use more, but plan to in the near future.

I started Usana after my sister (who had been trying everything to get pregnant for 7 years) did the

cleanse and got pregnant that month.

I’ve heard just about everything there is to say about nutrition products, since my father was a

body builder and my mother a nutritionist, so I didn’t put much weight to it, until I heard my sis’

experience. Then I knew it was worth a try.

I could barely walk. My day was divided up in three hour increments, etc. etc.

The day I started the vitamins things started getting better immediately, like a burst of fresh air.

Yep. Usana definitely works for me… saved my life, brought ra progression to a virtual standstill.

I have significant joint damage and moderate flares… It’s worked as well as I’ve heard any of the

other meds have worked for others. If I run out of the essentials I slip backwards, but getting back

on them puts me back in a good place. I think I only fall short in pain management.

But it hasn’t been a cure and it won’t be. My immune system has always been in overdrive and a

patch of uncommonly stressful existence prompted it to protect me into oblivion. It’s been smoldering

in the underbrush probably since junior high when I first began experiencing stiffness and pain in my

hands… it came out a little bit more in college, when my feet became cardboard in the night…

I’ve always been extremely active (walking, running, weight training several times a week on a regular

basis) but until I get old enough to get a doctor to go along with joint replacements, it’ll be some

time before I can get the sweat I adore with no pain. I get my sweat anyway, but it would be nice

to get rid of the pain.

I’ve got it in just about every joint but I can function extremely well, and I’m aware of the blessing

of time. I’ve got a whole lot of life ahead of me and want any progression to go as slowly as possible.

I use one or two forearm crutches for standing or walking…

I can’t wait to meet the pill that can convince the thing that is RA to cool its jets.

Love/peace

Yellow

-----Original Message-----From: Dorey [mailto:ddorey@...] Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:41 PMRheumatoid Arthritis Subject: Re: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Hi, you referred to using USANA nutritionals, may I ask exactly what you take each day.......I assume the Essentials, but do you also add proflavinol C, and the eccential fatty acids? I believe the USANA nutritionals are an excellent product.

When I took the USANA and had some success, I was taking the Essentials, proflavinol C, essential fatty acids, extra calcium, glucosomine and CoQ10. This combination worked pretty well for me but was still missing the live plant enzymes that I needed. I found that in the summer months when I was eating from the garden I felt pretty good but then once the garden was done something seemed missing, I've since realized it was the live plant enzymes.

The proflavinol C is excellent for helping fight inflamation, on bad days I found taking higher doses of just this one product helped alot.

What has been your experience?

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 4:25 PM

Subject: RE: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

I so agree with Jenni. She said (something like) people will tell you what worked for them

and have a tendency to see it as the ultimate solution.

Everything seems so clear, then. Sometimes what they have done is their cure, sometimes

it coincided with a remission… it’s like feeling the first rush after being forgiven and ‘knowing’

in your soul you’ll never make another mistake…

I’m all for nutrition, like I’ve said a bigillion times I use usana nutritionals to stay as healthy

as possible and it has lifted me from a terrible place, but I don’t believe nutrition is the cure –

at least not in the way we would need. All symptoms have to stop, no fatigue… etc. (you guys

remember that email about remission? It has to go further than that.)

Proper nutrition supports the immune system, but it doesn’t determine it’s function.

The body is waaaay complicated. The immune system is a conundrum, there are hundreds of

other immune diseases that plague folk. I would go on the road to tell parents and children

about it, if we had a cure for any of them.

It’s about acceptance, imo. ‘Cause you can’t see RA, and you hate it and you can’t get your hands

around it cause it fluctuates; cause it snuck up on you and knocked you down and there aren’t

after school specials dramatizing it, or big stars revealing that they live with it; cause it feels like

being old and you’re so dang young; ‘cause your wife says you’re just lazy and people scowl at you

when you park in a blue space… the agony of doubt/the question of legitimacy is haunting.

We all tend to want it to evaporate…

I don’t know. I’d get rid of it in a second. But I’m getting tags and I’m getting a dog and I’m

getting my exercise and eating right… I’m gonna live with this, so I can LIVE.

I’ll let the researchers find the cure. I’m doing my best along the way.

Ugh. I need a vacation I think. lol

-----Original Message-----From: Nina [mailto:ncampbell@...] Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:35 PMRheumatoid Arthritis Subject: Re: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

of Chronic Disease

> I agree too. The human system is riddled with issues that are inherited or developed

and a ‘change’ is not going to propel everyone into the mythical land of physical perfection.

Some things are not repairable and some things are not preventable.

If wanting to be well again or reading a book would fix it, I'd be the first one in line!

Nina

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

> ‘as a man thinks in his heart, so is he’ doesn’t mean that I can be Korean if I just focus on it hard enough. Your attitude is important, but thinking you’re a chicken won’t get you fresh eggs.

Thank you! I needed a good laugh this morning. :-)

Nina

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I didn't realize this thread was going to take on a life. ;-)

Gosh, I don't even know where to begin. As Nina stated in her

response e-mail to you, some people's families do have several

autoimmune disease within them, and having one does open the door to

others.

My mother's side of the family has thyroid problems, diabetes, heart,

food allergies, fibroid tumors of the uterus, and arthritis problems.

My father's side of the family pretty much has the same problems.

So, it's my understanding taking genes from both sides and mixing

them together will make even bigger problems.

I was born anemic and with one food allergy (Big Red Soda). The

doctors' pretty much had my mom giving me vitamins and eating liver

and healthy foods at an early age, but I was always sick with colds

and viruses. My parents and grandparents were big on eating healthy--

country living and fresh foods from the garden. My oldest brother

always had heart problems--his heart would beat a beat and skip a

beat, my second oldest brother was anemic like me. Both developed

high blood pressure like my mom as teenagers--the doctors couldn't

explain it--they weren't over weight, the exact opposite they were

physical fit, active, played sport and ate healthy.

At 14, something happened that changed my life forever. I showing

signs of Graves disease. Our family physican sent me to an Internist

who was shocked that at my age I that I had Graves disease. So I

ended up with several doctors examining me, and they all agreed that

I had to take the radioactive iodine or die. So, long story short, I

had to take 2 doses to before the treatment worked.

At 16, my body started being allergic to heathly foods that I had

always eaten--oranges, apples, beans, peas, diary--foods that my

family and I loved to eat would put me into hives. So I battled this

on my own for a long while.

I had suffered since 9 with female problems. Also at 16, my gyno

finally gave me a D & C--and was shocked to find scar tissue on my

uterus (and reassured my dad that I was still a virgin). But my mom

wasn't shocked--all the women on her mom's side of the family end up

with hysterectomies due to fibroid tumors. Again, my gyno said it

was a gene thing that I would pass on to my daughters, if I get to

have any.

At 26, it got to the point I had to go to an allergist who warned me

to eliminate these foods and others (diary) from my diet. He also

ran a blood test and discovered the RA, and he sent me to a rheumy.

The rheumatologist review my family history and said he was surprised

that I hadn't been diagnosed sooner. His theory was that it was

always there and the allergies made it more active for diagnosis.

The " family " heart problems started showing up last year just before

my 34th birthday. So now I have a cardiologist who, again, says he's

not surprised. My poor PCP, he's nicknamed me " special girl " --

because my problems are extraordinary--in the sense it's almost as if

my body is aging faster than it should be--my problems happen at such

a young age.

So, all my doctors monitor me closely--to see what autoimmune disease

will pop out next. So, that's the reason my PCP freaked when he read

my blood tests and saw the anemia again. I am checked reguarly for

diabetes--another disease that all over my family tree. My mom has

had it for 22 years, My mom's parents had it, my dad's parents had

it. My oldest brother was diagnosed in his twenties.

I talked with every doctor on how I can prevent these autoimmune

diseases and they all say the same thing--you can't--they not

preventable diseases--my body's genes are like a timer, and at a

certain time, age, or whatever, the switch is turn on or off.

Layman's terms: My body doesn't like me. So if someone knows

something I don't, please share. Personality--I'm an extrovert, who

loves to talk with people, and crack jokes. Have taken the Meyers-

Briggs that lists me as an ENFP. Let me know if this personality

matches with RA.

K

> Hi Kathy and Nina, I don't mean to be unkind but if you do pick up

autoimmune diseases like people collect stamps could it be that your

body is crying out to you that a change is necessary? I wrote a

page on pain in my website that kind of explains what I'm asking. If

you have one autoimmune disorder and you take a medication to block

this disorder does it make sense that your body will then develope

another disorder to warn you of the impending danger.........so then

you medicate this disorder and the process continues.

[Guest guest]

I can't reply, I feel so sad for you having to deal with so much.

I've been lucky I suppose, finding what works for me in regards to RA and not following in my family history of thyroid disorder. I guess I was much too pushy suggesting everyone could do the same. For that I am very sorry. Please accept my most heart felt appologies.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: kathy_d87

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 6:42 AM

Subject: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Hi -I didn't realize this thread was going to take on a life. ;-)Gosh, I don't even know where to begin. As Nina stated in her response e-mail to you, some people's families do have several autoimmune disease within them, and having one does open the door to others.My mother's side of the family has thyroid problems, diabetes, heart, food allergies, fibroid tumors of the uterus, and arthritis problems. My father's side of the family pretty much has the same problems. So, it's my understanding taking genes from both sides and mixing them together will make even bigger problems.I was born anemic and with one food allergy (Big Red Soda). The doctors' pretty much had my mom giving me vitamins and eating liver and healthy foods at an early age, but I was always sick with colds and viruses. My parents and grandparents were big on eating healthy--country living and fresh foods from the garden. My oldest brother always had heart problems--his heart would beat a beat and skip a beat, my second oldest brother was anemic like me. Both developed high blood pressure like my mom as teenagers--the doctors couldn't explain it--they weren't over weight, the exact opposite they were physical fit, active, played sport and ate healthy.At 14, something happened that changed my life forever. I showing signs of Graves disease. Our family physican sent me to an Internist who was shocked that at my age I that I had Graves disease. So I ended up with several doctors examining me, and they all agreed that I had to take the radioactive iodine or die. So, long story short, I had to take 2 doses to before the treatment worked.At 16, my body started being allergic to heathly foods that I had always eaten--oranges, apples, beans, peas, diary--foods that my family and I loved to eat would put me into hives. So I battled this on my own for a long while. I had suffered since 9 with female problems. Also at 16, my gyno finally gave me a D & C--and was shocked to find scar tissue on my uterus (and reassured my dad that I was still a virgin). But my mom wasn't shocked--all the women on her mom's side of the family end up with hysterectomies due to fibroid tumors. Again, my gyno said it was a gene thing that I would pass on to my daughters, if I get to have any.At 26, it got to the point I had to go to an allergist who warned me to eliminate these foods and others (diary) from my diet. He also ran a blood test and discovered the RA, and he sent me to a rheumy. The rheumatologist review my family history and said he was surprised that I hadn't been diagnosed sooner. His theory was that it was always there and the allergies made it more active for diagnosis. The "family" heart problems started showing up last year just before my 34th birthday. So now I have a cardiologist who, again, says he's not surprised. My poor PCP, he's nicknamed me "special girl"--because my problems are extraordinary--in the sense it's almost as if my body is aging faster than it should be--my problems happen at such a young age.So, all my doctors monitor me closely--to see what autoimmune disease will pop out next. So, that's the reason my PCP freaked when he read my blood tests and saw the anemia again. I am checked reguarly for diabetes--another disease that all over my family tree. My mom has had it for 22 years, My mom's parents had it, my dad's parents had it. My oldest brother was diagnosed in his twenties. I talked with every doctor on how I can prevent these autoimmune diseases and they all say the same thing--you can't--they not preventable diseases--my body's genes are like a timer, and at a certain time, age, or whatever, the switch is turn on or off. Layman's terms: My body doesn't like me. So if someone knows something I don't, please share. Personality--I'm an extrovert, who loves to talk with people, and crack jokes. Have taken the Meyers-Briggs that lists me as an ENFP. Let me know if this personality matches with RA. K> Hi Kathy and Nina, I don't mean to be unkind but if you do pick up autoimmune diseases like people collect stamps could it be that your body is crying out to you that a change is necessary? I wrote a page on pain in my website that kind of explains what I'm asking. If you have one autoimmune disorder and you take a medication to block this disorder does it make sense that your body will then develope another disorder to warn you of the impending danger.........so then you medicate this disorder and the process continues.

[Guest guest]

You hit exactly what I was going for right there, when you said "your attitude is important" and when you talked about the "mind/body" connection - that's exactly what this is talking about.

I don't believe that was trying to categorize you - she was just sharing info that she hoped would help you. Cynicism is not a gift, it's a verbal sword that is used to hurt. I came to this group for help, support and encouragement from people who understand what it's like to suffer from this disease and I found all those things. I believe that you can find those things too, but not if you choose to push us away and try to hurt us. There are always things that we're not going to agree with when we talk to people, and there are ways to let us know that you disagree without acting disagreeable.

I want you to know that I'm willing to be your friend and stand by you in this journey that we're on together, but that is entirely up to you.

PS - I went and looked and never found the verse you were talking about - would love to know where it's at.

N

-------Original Message-------

From: Zoom

Date: 04/10/05 23:41:30

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: RE: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

‘as a man thinks in his heart, so is he’ doesn’t mean that I can be

Korean if I just focus on it hard enough.

How many people have died, thinking that they were going to make it?

Well, I guess their attitude wasn’t strong enough.

Just like those folks who roll into the healing ceremony and don’t walk out of it, because their ‘faith

just isn’t strong enough’.

What about “woe unto them that believeth a lie”? That’s in the Bible, too.

Your attitude is important, but thinking you’re a chicken won’t get you fresh eggs.

I’ve known a lot of jerks and stressed people who didn’t get RA or MS or Cancer or the vapors.

A bored, frustrated woman isn’t diagnosed as having a wandering uterus anymore and I’d just

as well not return to that kind of science.

The body works like a machine and every part of us, even our attitude/temperament functions

as a part of that machine, but anybody that tells you that only people with certain types of personalities

get certain diseases is giving you a fraction of the facts…

It’s mighty darn annoying to be relegated, categorized and blamed at a time when people are itching

to infuse the slumbering carcass of eugenics with the spirit of social bigotry.

There is one book written to support every idea you can conjure.

Try numerology, strandology, chain letters… (If you forward this the phone will ring.) ! oh my goodness it did.

Fallacy is the coolest, cause it’s so near truth.

-----Original Message-----From: kins, learning to love my 40's [mailto:farsgraphics@...] Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:13 PMRheumatoid Arthritis Subject: Re: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

*chuckles*

and did you know that the Bible says the same thing? It's in Proverbs, chapter 23 and says as a man thinks, so he is. And as I get older, I see it for myself all the time, both in my life and in other people - we've been given a great power in our minds and most of the time we don't even realize it.

Blessings - kins

-------Original Message-------

From: Dorey

Date: 04/10/05 22:00:57

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Want to know the personality type of someone that suffers MS..........they are the easiest. People who let every little thing eat away at their nervous system, these are the type to get MS. There's a little more to it than that, but, there's a generality.

You can believe, or not, as you like, but I guarantee you that you did not develop RA because you weren't taking medication.

There's a movie that kind of explains some of this, It's called "What the Bleep do we know" it's all on Quantum Physics and may shock you if you watch it, of course some people are open to believing this type of thing, others not, but it opens up a whole new way to see things. Suggests that we do manifest much of what exists in our lives.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

[Guest guest]

Oh , there's no need to apologize. I came to terms with my

health a long time ago. I still tease my mom and tell she and daddy

didn't do a good job of making me. Some times when I do get blue, I

just think of the people who are worse off than me. And do agree

with you that a positive attitude is absolutely essential with what

we have--so sounding boards like these are a great help--you know you

are not alone.

Take care!

K

> I can't reply, I feel so sad for you having to deal with so much.

>

> I've been lucky I suppose, finding what works for me in regards to

RA and not following in my family history of thyroid disorder. I

guess I was much too pushy suggesting everyone could do the same.

For that I am very sorry. Please accept my most heart felt

appologies.

>

> Dorey

> www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

[Guest guest]

Thank you Kathy........you sound like a wonderful person.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidARthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: kathy_d87

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:19 AM

Subject: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Oh , there's no need to apologize. I came to terms with my health a long time ago. I still tease my mom and tell she and daddy didn't do a good job of making me. Some times when I do get blue, I just think of the people who are worse off than me. And do agree with you that a positive attitude is absolutely essential with what we have--so sounding boards like these are a great help--you know you are not alone.Take care!K> I can't reply, I feel so sad for you having to deal with so much.> > I've been lucky I suppose, finding what works for me in regards to RA and not following in my family history of thyroid disorder. I guess I was much too pushy suggesting everyone could do the same. For that I am very sorry. Please accept my most heart felt appologies.> > Dorey> www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

[Guest guest]

everybody finds their own solution. What works is an individually formed as we

are.

It’s

a question of language.

Our

responsibility to each other and the community is important and there should be

no

loopholes

for those who want nothing better than to detract from the legitimacy of

illness.

As much

as you say you didn’t ‘suggest all disease is psychosomatic’

the episode that you

described

is typical to a psychosomatic episode.

It’s

nothing personal, . It’s about mindsets… it’s about the

power of language on

social mores

and policy and acceptance.

When it

gets personal, though, is when I or someone else with RA bumps into someone on

the

street who doesn’t deal with this condition, but because of their

experience or information

they’ve

received from you, regards my RA as something that can be conquered by a simple

change

of mindset. It gets personal when that person approaches me with their

theories, or

decides

that I deserve no accommodation, since they can tell what kind of person I am

and

exactly

what I’m suffering with ‘by taking a look at me’ with that

quite personal judgmental scowl…

just

like people cast on the obese.

It’s

not an easy time for people with disabilities as a somewhat disdainful light

has been shown

past Shindler-Shiavo

onto us.

It’s

the little foxes that spoil the vine.

Sure, as

I have always allowed, stress has a great deal to do with the function of

immune system.

However,

I definitely do NOT agree that re-charting the character towards some ephemeral

terrain will

propel the general population of arthritis sufferers into a permanent

remission.

As for

being defensive, I will defend anything that needs defending, but I rarely take

it personally.

All rheumys

are not created equal and they’re just as human as the guy who shortchanged

me at

the drug

store.

Love/peace

to you and everyone you touch

Yellow

-----Original Message-----

From: Dorey

[mailto:ddorey@...]

Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:51

AM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

You are being very

defensive.........I don't suggest all disease is psychosomatic, and certainly I

showed quite clearly that I don't believe disease is caused intentionally by

anyone. I mearly suggest that the mind is a very complicated instrument

that no one totally understands...........if we don't understand it totally

then perhaps we are misprogramming it. (as I clearly did that weekend I

spoke of) That is something I am willing to

investigate because I have an open mind.......I believe that it's my open mind

that allowed me to recover as I have. If I wasn't open to ideas I would

never have tried all of the things I have tried........and trust me there are

so many that I couldn't list them all. I try things, monitor results

and make decisions on whether it was worthwhile for me or not. It has

cost me alot of time and money but I am worth every penny and every minute I

have spent in this quest to be well.

My gift back to society is to share what I have learned and maybe inspire

others to find some answers, if they are looking.

This, of course is not for everyone,

some people completely believe what their rheumatologist says, that there

is no way other than medication, and that's ok.............I never for one

minute believed that.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

[Guest guest]

Yeah, the

Sense products just got an overhaul so they’re even better I’ve

heard.

I’ll

be able to do more when I have more to spend.

<the oil itself is gross tasting>

Are you

talking about optomega with turmeric, etc.? I take that as well. I like olive

oil

so the

taste isn’t that terrible to me. I’m a vegetarian, so I eat a lot

of… well, vegetables,

*grin* organics when I can swing it.

Ah.. but

enough about me! LOL

-----Original Message-----

From: Dorey

[mailto:ddorey@...]

Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 3:52

AM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

I'm very glad you found a quality

nutritional.......but I do highly recommend you add the Proflavinol C (to fight

inflamation) and the essential fatty acids, try the capsule, the oil

itself is gross tasting. And enzymes to help your digestive system

wouldn't hurt, unless you are getting lots of organic fruit and veggies and

eating them without cooking or adding any preservatives (commercial salad

dressing), both these things kill the enzymes. I don't believe the

essentials have enzymes added, unless they have changed in the last 3 or 4

years.

I love their skin care line (Sensei)

and use it. I even have my oldest son using the Sensei skin care

and it's been very successful in stopping his acne which was important to my

husband and I since my husband has terrible scarring from teenage acne. I

have beautiful skin, made better perhaps by this product.

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday,

April 10, 2005 7:37 PM

Subject: RE:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Hi ,

Isn’t Usana great? I’ve seen it do some great things

for my sis and myself. Really love usana.

I take the vitamin pack (the essentials) and macro-optimizers

(fibergy, soyamax, nutimeal)… I had

some bars once and loved them.

I’m a vegetarian and kind of a health nut (my alter ego is a

fruitarian), so I’m used to supplements

and drinks, but usana is by far the best I’ve had.

Currently, I can’t afford to use more, but plan to in the

near future.

I started Usana after my sister (who had been trying everything to

get pregnant for 7 years) did the

cleanse and got pregnant that month.

I’ve heard just about everything there is to say about

nutrition products, since my father was a

body builder and my mother a nutritionist, so I didn’t put

much weight to it, until I heard my sis’

experience. Then I knew it was worth a try.

I could barely walk. My day was divided up in three hour

increments, etc. etc.

The day I started the vitamins things started getting better

immediately, like a burst of fresh air.

Yep. Usana definitely works for me… saved my life, brought ra

progression to a virtual standstill.

I have significant joint damage and moderate flares…

It’s worked as well as I’ve heard any of the

other meds have worked for others. If I run out of the essentials I

slip backwards, but getting back

on them puts me back in a good place. I think I only fall short in

pain management.

But it hasn’t been a cure and it won’t be. My immune

system has always been in overdrive and a

patch of uncommonly stressful existence prompted it to protect me

into oblivion. It’s been smoldering

in the underbrush probably since junior high when I first began

experiencing stiffness and pain in my

hands… it came out a little bit more in college, when my feet

became cardboard in the night…

I’ve always been extremely active (walking, running, weight

training several times a week on a regular

basis) but until I get old enough to get a doctor to go along with

joint replacements, it’ll be some

time before I can get the sweat I adore with no pain. I get my

sweat anyway, but it would be nice

to get rid of the pain.

I’ve got it in just about every joint but I can function

extremely well, and I’m aware of the blessing

of time. I’ve got a whole lot of life ahead of me and want

any progression to go as slowly as possible.

I use one or two forearm crutches for standing or walking…

I can’t wait to meet the pill that can convince the thing

that is RA to cool its jets.

Love/peace

Yellow

-----Original Message-----

From: Dorey

[mailto:ddorey@...]

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:41

PM

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Hi, you referred to using USANA

nutritionals, may I ask exactly what you take each day.......I assume the

Essentials, but do you also add proflavinol C, and the eccential fatty

acids? I believe the USANA nutritionals are an excellent product.

When I took the USANA and had some

success, I was taking the Essentials, proflavinol C, essential fatty acids,

extra calcium, glucosomine and CoQ10. This combination worked pretty well

for me but was still missing the live plant enzymes that I needed. I

found that in the summer months when I was eating from the garden I felt pretty

good but then once the garden was done something seemed missing, I've since

realized it was the live plant enzymes.

The proflavinol C is excellent for

helping fight inflamation, on bad days I found taking higher doses of just this

one product helped alot.

What has been your experience?

Dorey

www.LivingWithRheumatoidArthritis.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Sent: Sunday,

April 10, 2005 4:25 PM

Subject: RE:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

I so agree with Jenni. She said (something like) people will tell

you what worked for them

and have a tendency to see it as the ultimate solution.

Everything seems so clear, then. Sometimes what they have done is

their cure, sometimes

it coincided with a remission… it’s like feeling the

first rush after being forgiven and ‘knowing’

in your soul you’ll never make another mistake…

I’m all for nutrition, like I’ve said a bigillion times

I use usana nutritionals to stay as healthy

as possible and it has lifted me from a terrible place, but I

don’t believe nutrition is the cure –

at least not in the way we would need. All symptoms have to stop,

no fatigue… etc. (you guys

remember that email about remission? It has to go further than

that.)

Proper nutrition supports the immune system, but it doesn’t

determine it’s function.

The body is waaaay complicated. The immune system is a conundrum,

there are hundreds of

other immune diseases that plague folk. I would go on the road to

tell parents and children

about it, if we had a cure for any of them.

It’s about acceptance, imo. ‘Cause you can’t see

RA, and you hate it and you can’t get your hands

around it cause it fluctuates; cause it snuck up on you and knocked

you down and there aren’t

after school specials dramatizing it, or big stars revealing that

they live with it; cause it feels like

being old and you’re so dang young; ‘cause your wife

says you’re just lazy and people scowl at you

when you park in a blue space… the agony of doubt/the

question of legitimacy is haunting.

We all tend to want it to evaporate…

I don’t know. I’d get rid of it in a second. But

I’m getting tags and I’m getting a dog and I’m

getting my exercise and eating right… I’m gonna live

with this, so I can LIVE.

I’ll let the researchers find the cure. I’m doing my

best along the way.

Ugh. I need a vacation I think. lol

-----Original Message-----

From: Nina

[mailto:ncampbell@...]

Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:35

PM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

of Chronic Disease

> I agree too. The human system is riddled with issues that are

inherited or developed

and a ‘change’ is not going to propel everyone into the

mythical land of physical perfection.

Some things are not repairable and some things are not preventable.

If wanting to be well again or reading a book would fix it, I'd be

the first one in line!

Nina

[Guest guest]

LOL

I’m

glad it made you laugh, Nina.

-----Original Message-----

From: Nina

[mailto:ncampbell@...]

Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 9:29

AM

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: Re:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

----- Original Message -----

From: Zoom

> ‘as a man thinks in his heart, so is he’

doesn’t mean that I can be Korean if I just focus on it hard

enough. Your attitude is important, but thinking you’re a chicken

won’t get you fresh eggs.

Thank you! I needed a good laugh this morning. :-)

Nina

[Guest guest]

My

cousins and I used to sit around and joke about what we could look forward to!

We are

also a health conscious, active, very strong, very fit (otherwise) family, with

all my grandparents and great aunts

and uncles

living into their late 80’s/90’s.

Strokes

on my mother’s side, diabetes and heart trouble on my dad’s and

arthritis all around! Joy.

Hang in

there, K!

Love and

peace to you and yours

Yellow

(who

doesn’t mind a good bit of discussion*wink*)

-----Original Message-----

From: kathy_d87 [mailto:kathy_d87@...]

Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 9:42

AM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

·

Hi -

I didn't realize this thread was going to take on

a life. ;-)

Gosh, I don't even know where to begin. As

Nina stated in her

response e-mail to you, some people's families do

have several

autoimmune disease within them, and having one

does open the door to

others.

My mother's side of the family has thyroid

problems, diabetes, heart,

food allergies, fibroid tumors of the uterus, and

arthritis problems.

My father's side of the family pretty much has the

same problems.

So, it's my understanding taking genes from both

sides and mixing

them together will make even bigger problems.

..

[Guest guest]

Heart disease and adult onset diabetes are on both sides of my family too, so I know how you feel! I'm hoping that with this drastic change in my lifestyle, I'll avoid most if not all of that (smiles)

kins

-------Original Message-------

From: Zoom

Date: 04/11/05 15:11:27

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: RE: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

My cousins and I used to sit around and joke about what we could look forward to!

We are also a health conscious, active, very strong, very fit (otherwise) family, with all my grandparents and great aunts

and uncles living into their late 80’s/90’s.

Strokes on my mother’s side, diabetes and heart trouble on my dad’s and arthritis all around! Joy.

Hang in there, K!

Love and peace to you and yours

Yellow

(who doesn’t mind a good bit of discussion*wink*)

-----Original Message-----From: kathy_d87 [mailto:kathy_d87@...] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 9:42 AMRheumatoid Arthritis Subject: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

· Hi -I didn't realize this thread was going to take on a life. ;-)Gosh, I don't even know where to begin. As Nina stated in her response e-mail to you, some people's families do have several autoimmune disease within them, and having one does open the door to others.My mother's side of the family has thyroid problems, diabetes, heart, food allergies, fibroid tumors of the uterus, and arthritis problems. My father's side of the family pretty much has the same problems. So, it's my understanding taking genes from both sides and mixing them together will make even bigger problems...

[Guest guest]

I take

umbrage to being called a cynic, Markins, darling, that is unless you meant to

say Cynic, in which case

I thank

you.

I am

definitely not a cynic, as I like to focus on the positive and helpful, in language as well as in life. I’ve

been

a member

of this group for quite some time and use my delete button when necessary.

However,

when it comes to judging a person by their looks and touting a belief that

implies that freedom from

disease is

simply about changing your personality, I

will say something.

We can

be friends kins. That is, if you want to be mine.

I will

ALWAYS do what I can to make sure folks get a fair shake. No fair shake in

generalizations. Nope. None at all.

What

was trying to do was done, I think.

I’ve

been to her site. She’s worked hard on it and made it available for all.

And if

she wasn’t trying to say

the things that she did say, she is very well capable of clarifying it, just

like she did.

Language

(word use as well as intended meaning)and the free exchange of ideas leads to

everyday interaction and policy.

I don’t

propose to make enemies. I think discussion is good for us all and sarcasm is a

perfectly reasonable tool of rhetoric.

‘Woe

unto him that believeth a lie’ is from the book of Revelation…

allusion to the great deception, the three woes… etc. If you like action

adventure… but that’s for another group, now isn’t it?

Honestly,

though, kins, if you read all my posts you’ll find no malice.

Love and

peace to all

Yellow

-----Original Message-----

From: kins, learning to love

my 40's [mailto:farsgraphics@...]

Sent: Monday, April

11, 2005 1:28 PM

To:

Rheumatoid Arthritis

Subject: RE:

Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

·

..

[Guest guest]

My family has a history of heart disease (father had 2 bypasses and died at 54), diabetes, RA runs wild on my mom's side. She had RA/OA, cancer, porphyria (she died at 51) ...so far I only have RA.

*knocks on wood*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maggie

http://www.4HockeyFans.com

http://www.4FloridaHockey.com

MSN: Maggies1429

AOL: Maggies85

-----Original Message-----From: kins, learning to love my 40's [mailto:farsgraphics@...]Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 5:23 PMRheumatoid Arthritis Subject: RE: Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Heart disease and adult onset diabetes are on both sides of my family too, so I know how you feel! I'm hoping that with this drastic change in my lifestyle, I'll avoid most if not all of that (smiles)

kins

· ..