Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 In a message dated 3/13/2004 7:57:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, dfisher57@... writes: My children have progressive loss's. I would like for them to stay at the same school to have a TOD to fall back on. My children could be totally deaf tomorrow because they have Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease. I want them with other deaf children. I don't want them the only deaf children in a hearing school. This is the focus of your reply. You feel it is NOT in your children's best interest to be mainstreamed in the local school because they cannot support your child's educational needs. So you argue that the LRE (Least Restrictive Environment) placement for them is a school with the reinforcement they NEED. Unless they have " access " to the education happening around them, they are not receiving a fair and appropriate education (FAPE). Keep those words and acronyms ready: LRE, FAPE, access ... use the education system's vocabulary to reinforce your case. They will certainly use them to foist their own decisions on you. Lose the phrase " to fall back on " when talking about the TOD. A TOD is not an extravagance, it is a necessity. That TOD's services are something your kids need, it's not an extra item like a class in chess strategy or art history. Stay focused on their actual educational needs, not on what you " feel " they need. The content of what you're saying is not really different, it's just the way you say it. Put it into the right context and the school has to seriously consider it. Being smart is not enough of a reason to mainstream a child. Being smart may mean that your kids could learn to cope and will work very hard to get their education, but that is not okay. (FYI: My son is mainstreamed with a TOD's services. But it is the appropriate choice for him). As for the costs, you could argue that they will not be saving any money. If they want to bring your children into the home district, they must be planning to hire two (2) sets of services to work with your kids in their classrooms. They'll obviously need to hire a TOD, a fulltime interpretor, plus whatever services are readily available in the D/HH program for EACH of your children. How else could they have " access " to their education? You'll need to write a letter telling the CSE (or whatever the Chairman of Special Ed is called in your district/state) and state that you are not satisfied with the IEP meeting and its outcome. You intend to formally appeal the decision if another meeting is not set to address your concerns. Then make sure you have all the support documents you need. Letters from doctors, letters from teachers in the kids' current programs that recommend they remain in that school. Whatever you have or can get that supports the placement you know in yoru heart to be best. Get the papers together. You have to have your paper trail, records that the dicstrict if trying to place your child into an inappropriate situation. If you do make a formal appeal to the state ed dept, you'll need the paperwork. Also, find an advocate. If you can, it will make things easier since an advocate will know more about the system and processes than us mere mortals (parents). I know this is so-o-o-o-o hard. It is exhausting to fight with a district. But you are doing the right thing for the right reasons. Stick to your guns. Good luck -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 In a message dated 3/13/2004 7:57:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, dfisher57@... writes: My children have progressive loss's. I would like for them to stay at the same school to have a TOD to fall back on. My children could be totally deaf tomorrow because they have Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease. I want them with other deaf children. I don't want them the only deaf children in a hearing school. This is the focus of your reply. You feel it is NOT in your children's best interest to be mainstreamed in the local school because they cannot support your child's educational needs. So you argue that the LRE (Least Restrictive Environment) placement for them is a school with the reinforcement they NEED. Unless they have " access " to the education happening around them, they are not receiving a fair and appropriate education (FAPE). Keep those words and acronyms ready: LRE, FAPE, access ... use the education system's vocabulary to reinforce your case. They will certainly use them to foist their own decisions on you. Lose the phrase " to fall back on " when talking about the TOD. A TOD is not an extravagance, it is a necessity. That TOD's services are something your kids need, it's not an extra item like a class in chess strategy or art history. Stay focused on their actual educational needs, not on what you " feel " they need. The content of what you're saying is not really different, it's just the way you say it. Put it into the right context and the school has to seriously consider it. Being smart is not enough of a reason to mainstream a child. Being smart may mean that your kids could learn to cope and will work very hard to get their education, but that is not okay. (FYI: My son is mainstreamed with a TOD's services. But it is the appropriate choice for him). As for the costs, you could argue that they will not be saving any money. If they want to bring your children into the home district, they must be planning to hire two (2) sets of services to work with your kids in their classrooms. They'll obviously need to hire a TOD, a fulltime interpretor, plus whatever services are readily available in the D/HH program for EACH of your children. How else could they have " access " to their education? You'll need to write a letter telling the CSE (or whatever the Chairman of Special Ed is called in your district/state) and state that you are not satisfied with the IEP meeting and its outcome. You intend to formally appeal the decision if another meeting is not set to address your concerns. Then make sure you have all the support documents you need. Letters from doctors, letters from teachers in the kids' current programs that recommend they remain in that school. Whatever you have or can get that supports the placement you know in yoru heart to be best. Get the papers together. You have to have your paper trail, records that the dicstrict if trying to place your child into an inappropriate situation. If you do make a formal appeal to the state ed dept, you'll need the paperwork. Also, find an advocate. If you can, it will make things easier since an advocate will know more about the system and processes than us mere mortals (parents). I know this is so-o-o-o-o hard. It is exhausting to fight with a district. But you are doing the right thing for the right reasons. Stick to your guns. Good luck -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 Unfortunately, they have the wrong focus in mind for your child. " Well, to save the district money... But I've heard that story over and over. You need to find an advocate from either the D/HoH division at your state or some other advocate who can come in and help you focus these people on meeting the communication issues of your child because that is what an IEP should be about. Obviously I dont know where you live but each state will have resources... Father to profoundly deaf daughter who hears at 15dbs. > Hello everyone, > > I have some questions. Yesterday we had my son and daughters IEP. My children go out of district to school because our school district doesn't have a D/HH program. Well, to save the district money, they want to move my children back to our district and mainstream them with interpreters. Both of my children are really smart. My son is currently mainstreamed and my daughter is in the D/HH program because she is in pre-school. She will be mainstreamed into the hearing K. My children have progressive loss's. I would like for them to stay at the same school to have a TOD to fall back on. My children could be totally deaf tomorrow because they have Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease. I want them with other deaf children. I don't want them the only deaf children in a hearing school. There are many other children that go out of district for the D/HH program. Most of them are in High School. Why are they not coming back to our dist?? I would really like for my children to stay where they are. My school dist. doesn't know the first thing about deafness. What can I do? Is there some kind of law? I was watching the local cable channel where they had a meeting about moving the children with special needs back to our dist. to save money. In the past, the deaf children of our town finished high school out of district. Is this fair to make mine come back? Can I use something like " the other children were able to finish high school with other d/hh children, why can't mine? " It's just unfair. There are no other d/hh children in our school system. Can you please help?? > > Donna Fisher > mother to ny 8, severe > 5, mod/severe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 Unfortunately, they have the wrong focus in mind for your child. " Well, to save the district money... But I've heard that story over and over. You need to find an advocate from either the D/HoH division at your state or some other advocate who can come in and help you focus these people on meeting the communication issues of your child because that is what an IEP should be about. Obviously I dont know where you live but each state will have resources... Father to profoundly deaf daughter who hears at 15dbs. > Hello everyone, > > I have some questions. Yesterday we had my son and daughters IEP. My children go out of district to school because our school district doesn't have a D/HH program. Well, to save the district money, they want to move my children back to our district and mainstream them with interpreters. Both of my children are really smart. My son is currently mainstreamed and my daughter is in the D/HH program because she is in pre-school. She will be mainstreamed into the hearing K. My children have progressive loss's. I would like for them to stay at the same school to have a TOD to fall back on. My children could be totally deaf tomorrow because they have Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease. I want them with other deaf children. I don't want them the only deaf children in a hearing school. There are many other children that go out of district for the D/HH program. Most of them are in High School. Why are they not coming back to our dist?? I would really like for my children to stay where they are. My school dist. doesn't know the first thing about deafness. What can I do? Is there some kind of law? I was watching the local cable channel where they had a meeting about moving the children with special needs back to our dist. to save money. In the past, the deaf children of our town finished high school out of district. Is this fair to make mine come back? Can I use something like " the other children were able to finish high school with other d/hh children, why can't mine? " It's just unfair. There are no other d/hh children in our school system. Can you please help?? > > Donna Fisher > mother to ny 8, severe > 5, mod/severe > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 I think you should do research on all the issues a child can have in a normal class even with an interpreter, also that most pre-schoolers and kindergardeners can not utilize an interpreter well and the teacher needs to be familiar with the special needs of a hearing impaired student even if they are very smart it's not as simple as just give them an interpreter and they will be fine. The classroom set up can be a problem, there are a lot of factors here, and you need to find all of them and place them in front of them and tell them it may work later on when they are more able to adapt, but while they are still very young it just isn't going to work there is no way your children could keep up with an interpreter and a school and teacher that know nothing about d/HH issues. I need help Hello everyone, I have some questions. Yesterday we had my son and daughters IEP. My children go out of district to school because our school district doesn't have a D/HH program. Well, to save the district money, they want to move my children back to our district and mainstream them with interpreters. Both of my children are really smart. My son is currently mainstreamed and my daughter is in the D/HH program because she is in pre-school. She will be mainstreamed into the hearing K. My children have progressive loss's. I would like for them to stay at the same school to have a TOD to fall back on. My children could be totally deaf tomorrow because they have Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease. I want them with other deaf children. I don't want them the only deaf children in a hearing school. There are many other children that go out of district for the D/HH program. Most of them are in High School. Why are they not coming back to our dist?? I would really like for my children to stay where they are. My school dist. doesn't know the first thing about deafness. What can I do? Is there some kind of law? I was watching the local cable channel where they had a meeting about moving the children with special needs back to our dist. to save money. In the past, the deaf children of our town finished high school out of district. Is this fair to make mine come back? Can I use something like " the other children were able to finish high school with other d/hh children, why can't mine? " It's just unfair. There are no other d/hh children in our school system. Can you please help?? Donna Fisher mother to ny 8, severe 5, mod/severe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2004 Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 I think you should do research on all the issues a child can have in a normal class even with an interpreter, also that most pre-schoolers and kindergardeners can not utilize an interpreter well and the teacher needs to be familiar with the special needs of a hearing impaired student even if they are very smart it's not as simple as just give them an interpreter and they will be fine. The classroom set up can be a problem, there are a lot of factors here, and you need to find all of them and place them in front of them and tell them it may work later on when they are more able to adapt, but while they are still very young it just isn't going to work there is no way your children could keep up with an interpreter and a school and teacher that know nothing about d/HH issues. I need help Hello everyone, I have some questions. Yesterday we had my son and daughters IEP. My children go out of district to school because our school district doesn't have a D/HH program. Well, to save the district money, they want to move my children back to our district and mainstream them with interpreters. Both of my children are really smart. My son is currently mainstreamed and my daughter is in the D/HH program because she is in pre-school. She will be mainstreamed into the hearing K. My children have progressive loss's. I would like for them to stay at the same school to have a TOD to fall back on. My children could be totally deaf tomorrow because they have Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease. I want them with other deaf children. I don't want them the only deaf children in a hearing school. There are many other children that go out of district for the D/HH program. Most of them are in High School. Why are they not coming back to our dist?? I would really like for my children to stay where they are. My school dist. doesn't know the first thing about deafness. What can I do? Is there some kind of law? I was watching the local cable channel where they had a meeting about moving the children with special needs back to our dist. to save money. In the past, the deaf children of our town finished high school out of district. Is this fair to make mine come back? Can I use something like " the other children were able to finish high school with other d/hh children, why can't mine? " It's just unfair. There are no other d/hh children in our school system. Can you please help?? Donna Fisher mother to ny 8, severe 5, mod/severe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 If you check on my website where I list the citations I quote the most to folks http://www.listen-up.org/rights2/quotes.htm you'll see at the bottom of the page From Dept. of Ed.: Deaf Students Education Services; Policy Guidance " States and school districts also are advised that the potential harmful effect of the placement on the deaf child or the quality of services he or she needs must be considered in determining the LRE " You'll also see a few other quotes that may or may not be helpful in this instance. -Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 In a message dated 3/14/2004 2:26:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, kay@... writes: " States and school districts also are advised that the potential harmful effect of the placement on the deaf child or the quality of services he or she needs must be considered in determining the LRE " You'll also see a few other quotes that may or may not be helpful in this instance. -Kay Kay -- This is one of my favorite quotes. It is one that I used with our district. I also had an evaluation from from a clinical psychologist stating that the services being provided were not simply incorrect but harmful, and that if the district continued to refuse to provide appropriate services, in his opinion, the district would be responsible for causing harm to our son. Somewhere in his report he also mentioned that they were exacerbating an mild anxiety disorder. This quote and its content are what drove me to get the documentation on how the district was not simply ignoring my son, they were already causing harm by their actions. So ... here's a long overdue " thanks " from me -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 In a message dated 3/14/2004 2:26:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, kay@... writes: " States and school districts also are advised that the potential harmful effect of the placement on the deaf child or the quality of services he or she needs must be considered in determining the LRE " You'll also see a few other quotes that may or may not be helpful in this instance. -Kay Kay -- This is one of my favorite quotes. It is one that I used with our district. I also had an evaluation from from a clinical psychologist stating that the services being provided were not simply incorrect but harmful, and that if the district continued to refuse to provide appropriate services, in his opinion, the district would be responsible for causing harm to our son. Somewhere in his report he also mentioned that they were exacerbating an mild anxiety disorder. This quote and its content are what drove me to get the documentation on how the district was not simply ignoring my son, they were already causing harm by their actions. So ... here's a long overdue " thanks " from me -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 <<Stay focused on their actual educational needs, not on what you " feel " they need. Their actual educational needs, -- What do you mean by this? >> What I meant is that you should chose your words carefully and refer to their actual educational needs, not your feelings or your fears. Those are very valid, but they are not the reasons the committee will use to make decisions. Talk about the actual services: the TODs, the interpreters, speech, language aquisition, the types of instruction or serices that are a part of their everyday school-life. Things that do not exist in a regular mainstreamed classroom because hearing children do not need them. I found that using the word " feel " in any of my explanations was a bad choice and the committee members would then poo-poo me with an attitude that I was just-a-silly-little-worry-wart. For instance, instead of saying, " the audiologist feels that the district's choice of using a sound-field system is actually causing our son more trouble based on his type of hearing loss. " I would say, " our audiologist's evaluation clearly states that the district's choice of a sound filed system is causing our son more trouble based on his type of hearing loss. " The focus is then on a stated professional opinion, not on anyone's feelings. I did not say that my son " feels intimidated " by the SpecEd teacher (she is a screamer) but instead I said that " it is his perception that she hates teaching kids because she screams at everyone and that frightens him, causing him not to be able to focus on the tasks at hand for fear of being the next person she'll scream at. " I placed the focus on how her behavior was causing problems, not creating a question as to whether my son is shy and easy frightened. I had to practice explaning things to my husband and a dear friend, so that I could get the words right. I think I should have been able to use the word " feel " since it is certainly a part of how we humans function. But our committee would dismiss such comments as senitmental and not based in facts. I had to make myself talk like a lawyer, not like the emotionally-invested mother that I really am. << This is the focus of your reply. You feel it is NOT in your children's best interest to be mainstreamed in the local school because they cannot support your child's educational needs. --What if I tell them they cannot support my children's educational needs and they say " why not, What do you mean by that?? " How do I reply to them?>> They will most likely say " why not? " when you tell them they cannot support your kids' needs. And you need to be ready to tell them just how and why they are not going to be able to provide adequate services. They may say that they have SpecEd inclusion classrooms available and suggest using one of those as an appropriate placement becuase there is extra help in that setting. Who knows what they are planning to offer as a solution. Whatever they suggest, your opinion is that the LRE for them is that D/HH program and any hobbled-together program at the local school will be of inferior quality and therefore not meet their needs. Unless of course they are planning to create a D/HH program of their own in your district. So you'll need to have on hand a decription of all the services that your kids are currently receiving in the D/HH program and all the services that are on-hand when they occassionally need them. Explain to the committee that they will need to hire an entire collection of professionals to provide the same level of NECESSARY services as are currently being provided in that program, and they will end up spending far more money. << We didn't close our IEP's. We left the IEP's with the understanding that my husband and I would talk it over and gather at a later date (unspecified date) to close the IEP's. >> Great! Then gather your info and schedule another meeting. If you are nervous about going alone, then make sure they schedule it at a time when your husband can also attend. Bring a friend for moral support -- you can bring anyone you want to act as support for you. Bring your doctor's evaluations. Bring along audiograms showing the speech banana and your children's hearing losses carted across it to literally show what portion of conversational speech they cannot hear. Bring along any articles that you feel are pertinent to the topic. You're presenting a case which differs from what they want to do. You're going to show them why they're wrong. And if they still won't listen, you appeal it. They are not allowed to place you child based on their budget concerns. There is an existing and easily accessable program that will support your children's needs. They need to prove to you that they are going to address ALL those needs when altering their placement. If we were closer I'd volunteer to be your moral support. I really hate IEP meetings and school district politics. Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 <<Stay focused on their actual educational needs, not on what you " feel " they need. Their actual educational needs, -- What do you mean by this? >> What I meant is that you should chose your words carefully and refer to their actual educational needs, not your feelings or your fears. Those are very valid, but they are not the reasons the committee will use to make decisions. Talk about the actual services: the TODs, the interpreters, speech, language aquisition, the types of instruction or serices that are a part of their everyday school-life. Things that do not exist in a regular mainstreamed classroom because hearing children do not need them. I found that using the word " feel " in any of my explanations was a bad choice and the committee members would then poo-poo me with an attitude that I was just-a-silly-little-worry-wart. For instance, instead of saying, " the audiologist feels that the district's choice of using a sound-field system is actually causing our son more trouble based on his type of hearing loss. " I would say, " our audiologist's evaluation clearly states that the district's choice of a sound filed system is causing our son more trouble based on his type of hearing loss. " The focus is then on a stated professional opinion, not on anyone's feelings. I did not say that my son " feels intimidated " by the SpecEd teacher (she is a screamer) but instead I said that " it is his perception that she hates teaching kids because she screams at everyone and that frightens him, causing him not to be able to focus on the tasks at hand for fear of being the next person she'll scream at. " I placed the focus on how her behavior was causing problems, not creating a question as to whether my son is shy and easy frightened. I had to practice explaning things to my husband and a dear friend, so that I could get the words right. I think I should have been able to use the word " feel " since it is certainly a part of how we humans function. But our committee would dismiss such comments as senitmental and not based in facts. I had to make myself talk like a lawyer, not like the emotionally-invested mother that I really am. << This is the focus of your reply. You feel it is NOT in your children's best interest to be mainstreamed in the local school because they cannot support your child's educational needs. --What if I tell them they cannot support my children's educational needs and they say " why not, What do you mean by that?? " How do I reply to them?>> They will most likely say " why not? " when you tell them they cannot support your kids' needs. And you need to be ready to tell them just how and why they are not going to be able to provide adequate services. They may say that they have SpecEd inclusion classrooms available and suggest using one of those as an appropriate placement becuase there is extra help in that setting. Who knows what they are planning to offer as a solution. Whatever they suggest, your opinion is that the LRE for them is that D/HH program and any hobbled-together program at the local school will be of inferior quality and therefore not meet their needs. Unless of course they are planning to create a D/HH program of their own in your district. So you'll need to have on hand a decription of all the services that your kids are currently receiving in the D/HH program and all the services that are on-hand when they occassionally need them. Explain to the committee that they will need to hire an entire collection of professionals to provide the same level of NECESSARY services as are currently being provided in that program, and they will end up spending far more money. << We didn't close our IEP's. We left the IEP's with the understanding that my husband and I would talk it over and gather at a later date (unspecified date) to close the IEP's. >> Great! Then gather your info and schedule another meeting. If you are nervous about going alone, then make sure they schedule it at a time when your husband can also attend. Bring a friend for moral support -- you can bring anyone you want to act as support for you. Bring your doctor's evaluations. Bring along audiograms showing the speech banana and your children's hearing losses carted across it to literally show what portion of conversational speech they cannot hear. Bring along any articles that you feel are pertinent to the topic. You're presenting a case which differs from what they want to do. You're going to show them why they're wrong. And if they still won't listen, you appeal it. They are not allowed to place you child based on their budget concerns. There is an existing and easily accessable program that will support your children's needs. They need to prove to you that they are going to address ALL those needs when altering their placement. If we were closer I'd volunteer to be your moral support. I really hate IEP meetings and school district politics. Best -- Jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 If you check on my website where I list the citations I quote the most to folks http://www.listen-up.org/rights2/quotes.htm you'll see at the bottom of the page From Dept. of Ed.: Deaf Students Education Services; Policy Guidance " States and school districts also are advised that the potential harmful effect of the placement on the deaf child or the quality of services he or she needs must be considered in determining the LRE " You'll also see a few other quotes that may or may not be helpful in this instance. -Kay Kay and everyone, I thank you for all the info you sent me. I am just at the end of my rope!! I have more questions for you (please bare with me, i'm almost in tears here). I went to the site that Kay sent me and read the whole page. I have some questions about it though. 1) under FAPE, is socialization amd cultural needs addressed or should I say inclucluded? 2)I'm taking it that the word consensus means an agreement? 3)Under the ADA part, #2. it says : in determining what type of auxiliary aid and services is necessary, a public entity shall give primary consideration to the requests of the individual with disabilities. My question about this one.......What is a auxiliary aid? Do my children have the right to say they don't want to change schools? 4)and under the part about Deaf students Education Services; Policy Guidance: it says deafness is a low incidence disability there is not a widespread understanding of its educational implications, even amon special educators. My question......What are some of the educational implications??? And further down in the same paragraph it says...This lack of knowledge and skills in our education system contributed to the already substantial BARRIERS to deaf students in receiving appropriate educational services. My question......What are some of the barriers??? A little further down in the same part, it says .......The Secretary believes it's important that State and local education agencies, in developing an IEP for a child who is deaf, take into consideration such factors as: 2) Linguistic needs; (what's this??) Also, Who is the Secretary???? A little further down in the same section, it says..... As in previous policy guidance, the secretary (there's the secretary again LOL) emphasizes that placement decisions may not be based on category of disability, the configuration of the delivery system, the availability of educational or related services, availability of space or administrative convenience. My question.......What do the underlined statements mean?? If anyone wan't to see the article I am talking about, the link is at the top of this email. I just want to thank all of you!! I am just so stressed out about all of this. A desperate mother, Donna mother to ny & I might have more questions about the emails that people sent in reply to my first one. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 If you check on my website where I list the citations I quote the most to folks http://www.listen-up.org/rights2/quotes.htm you'll see at the bottom of the page From Dept. of Ed.: Deaf Students Education Services; Policy Guidance " States and school districts also are advised that the potential harmful effect of the placement on the deaf child or the quality of services he or she needs must be considered in determining the LRE " You'll also see a few other quotes that may or may not be helpful in this instance. -Kay Kay and everyone, I thank you for all the info you sent me. I am just at the end of my rope!! I have more questions for you (please bare with me, i'm almost in tears here). I went to the site that Kay sent me and read the whole page. I have some questions about it though. 1) under FAPE, is socialization amd cultural needs addressed or should I say inclucluded? 2)I'm taking it that the word consensus means an agreement? 3)Under the ADA part, #2. it says : in determining what type of auxiliary aid and services is necessary, a public entity shall give primary consideration to the requests of the individual with disabilities. My question about this one.......What is a auxiliary aid? Do my children have the right to say they don't want to change schools? 4)and under the part about Deaf students Education Services; Policy Guidance: it says deafness is a low incidence disability there is not a widespread understanding of its educational implications, even amon special educators. My question......What are some of the educational implications??? And further down in the same paragraph it says...This lack of knowledge and skills in our education system contributed to the already substantial BARRIERS to deaf students in receiving appropriate educational services. My question......What are some of the barriers??? A little further down in the same part, it says .......The Secretary believes it's important that State and local education agencies, in developing an IEP for a child who is deaf, take into consideration such factors as: 2) Linguistic needs; (what's this??) Also, Who is the Secretary???? A little further down in the same section, it says..... As in previous policy guidance, the secretary (there's the secretary again LOL) emphasizes that placement decisions may not be based on category of disability, the configuration of the delivery system, the availability of educational or related services, availability of space or administrative convenience. My question.......What do the underlined statements mean?? If anyone wan't to see the article I am talking about, the link is at the top of this email. I just want to thank all of you!! I am just so stressed out about all of this. A desperate mother, Donna mother to ny & I might have more questions about the emails that people sent in reply to my first one. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 If you check on my website where I list the citations I quote the most to folks http://www.listen-up.org/rights2/quotes.htm you'll see at the bottom of the page From Dept. of Ed.: Deaf Students Education Services; Policy Guidance " States and school districts also are advised that the potential harmful effect of the placement on the deaf child or the quality of services he or she needs must be considered in determining the LRE " You'll also see a few other quotes that may or may not be helpful in this instance. -Kay Kay and everyone, I thank you for all the info you sent me. I am just at the end of my rope!! I have more questions for you (please bare with me, i'm almost in tears here). I went to the site that Kay sent me and read the whole page. I have some questions about it though. 1) under FAPE, is socialization amd cultural needs addressed or should I say inclucluded? 2)I'm taking it that the word consensus means an agreement? 3)Under the ADA part, #2. it says : in determining what type of auxiliary aid and services is necessary, a public entity shall give primary consideration to the requests of the individual with disabilities. My question about this one.......What is a auxiliary aid? Do my children have the right to say they don't want to change schools? 4)and under the part about Deaf students Education Services; Policy Guidance: it says deafness is a low incidence disability there is not a widespread understanding of its educational implications, even amon special educators. My question......What are some of the educational implications??? And further down in the same paragraph it says...This lack of knowledge and skills in our education system contributed to the already substantial BARRIERS to deaf students in receiving appropriate educational services. My question......What are some of the barriers??? A little further down in the same part, it says .......The Secretary believes it's important that State and local education agencies, in developing an IEP for a child who is deaf, take into consideration such factors as: 2) Linguistic needs; (what's this??) Also, Who is the Secretary???? A little further down in the same section, it says..... As in previous policy guidance, the secretary (there's the secretary again LOL) emphasizes that placement decisions may not be based on category of disability, the configuration of the delivery system, the availability of educational or related services, availability of space or administrative convenience. My question.......What do the underlined statements mean?? If anyone wan't to see the article I am talking about, the link is at the top of this email. I just want to thank all of you!! I am just so stressed out about all of this. A desperate mother, Donna mother to ny & I might have more questions about the emails that people sent in reply to my first one. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 wrote: I think you should do research on all the issues a child can have in a normal class even with an interpreter, Do you know what some of these issues may be? do you mean like acoustics? socialization? The classroom set up can be a problem, there are a lot of factors here, Can you give me some examples? Thank you, Donna Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 wrote: I think you should do research on all the issues a child can have in a normal class even with an interpreter, Do you know what some of these issues may be? do you mean like acoustics? socialization? The classroom set up can be a problem, there are a lot of factors here, Can you give me some examples? Thank you, Donna Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Jill wrote: Stay focused on their actual educational needs, not on what you " feel " they need. Their actual educational needs, What do you mean by this? This is the focus of your reply. You feel it is NOT in your children's best interest to be mainstreamed in the local school because they cannot support your child's educational needs. What if I tell them they cannot support my children's educational needs and they say " why not, What do you mean by that?? " How do I reply to them? We didn't close our IEP's. We left the IEP's with the understanding that my husband and I would talk it over and gather at a later date (unspecified date) to close the IEP's. Thank you guys so much. You don't know how much you are helping me!! Donna mother to ny and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Jill wrote: Stay focused on their actual educational needs, not on what you " feel " they need. Their actual educational needs, What do you mean by this? This is the focus of your reply. You feel it is NOT in your children's best interest to be mainstreamed in the local school because they cannot support your child's educational needs. What if I tell them they cannot support my children's educational needs and they say " why not, What do you mean by that?? " How do I reply to them? We didn't close our IEP's. We left the IEP's with the understanding that my husband and I would talk it over and gather at a later date (unspecified date) to close the IEP's. Thank you guys so much. You don't know how much you are helping me!! Donna mother to ny and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Yes I haven't done a lot of ress earch myself but yes acoustics can be a problem as well as socialization. They have to make sure the child is learning how to appropriately interact with the other children and able to communicate with them. If they aren't able to communicate that is not an appropriate placement for your child. As far as classroom set up goes see if they have a soundfield set up. Also the child should always be in a position to be close to the teacher and the teacher has to face the child at all times so the child can hear and see her better. I think one of the biggest arguements you have would be that in a classroom setting especially pre-school the teacher is not going to be facing the child all the time, so the child may not be able to hear her well or be able to lip read. With an interpreter, the child will not be able to take notes because you can't look at what you are writing and the interpreter at the same time, so this is why an interpreter is hard to utilize in young children and well any child. You would also need to have someone to take notes and stuff. I don't have a ton of info on this as we haven't needed an interpreter up to this point, but I have looked into it a little and that is really the only info I have right now on the problems associated. So focus on the fact that the teacher can't face the child all the time, the child can't hear well (I think you said you have a boy and a girl so I'm not sure which we are talking about here) and can't utilize lip reading. An interpreter can interpret, but if the instructions are to trace something or draw something or anything that requires visual attention it is going to be a problem because the child is unable to attend to the interpreter and the work. Those points are very valid in young children as well as older children in a normal classroom setting. If your child is working on being verbal then it is even more of a problem that they would be in a normal classroom unless the teacher is always facing forward, because it is important to have time and really work on speech understanding and development and teachers who don't deal with d/hoh kids don't realize how much they move around and turn around when they talk and so to say they would be able to work it out really isn't realistic because they never have and have no idea what the problems are with hearing when you are hearing impaired and use a hearing aid or a CI. Children don't hear all the sounds, the sounds that are louder in the classroom such as the chairs moving and the kids stirring dround out the sound and it makes it really hard for them to pick up what the teacher is saying. This is why she would need an FM system, but if your child doesn't currently use one then they would have to get used to it and learn how to hear with it if they are not a proficiant listener yet. Anyway I think I'm rambling now but those are some of the major problems you might run into and should point out, whatever applies. Re: I need help wrote: I think you should do research on all the issues a child can have in a normal class even with an interpreter, Do you know what some of these issues may be? do you mean like acoustics? socialization? The classroom set up can be a problem, there are a lot of factors here, Can you give me some examples? Thank you, Donna Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Yes I haven't done a lot of ress earch myself but yes acoustics can be a problem as well as socialization. They have to make sure the child is learning how to appropriately interact with the other children and able to communicate with them. If they aren't able to communicate that is not an appropriate placement for your child. As far as classroom set up goes see if they have a soundfield set up. Also the child should always be in a position to be close to the teacher and the teacher has to face the child at all times so the child can hear and see her better. I think one of the biggest arguements you have would be that in a classroom setting especially pre-school the teacher is not going to be facing the child all the time, so the child may not be able to hear her well or be able to lip read. With an interpreter, the child will not be able to take notes because you can't look at what you are writing and the interpreter at the same time, so this is why an interpreter is hard to utilize in young children and well any child. You would also need to have someone to take notes and stuff. I don't have a ton of info on this as we haven't needed an interpreter up to this point, but I have looked into it a little and that is really the only info I have right now on the problems associated. So focus on the fact that the teacher can't face the child all the time, the child can't hear well (I think you said you have a boy and a girl so I'm not sure which we are talking about here) and can't utilize lip reading. An interpreter can interpret, but if the instructions are to trace something or draw something or anything that requires visual attention it is going to be a problem because the child is unable to attend to the interpreter and the work. Those points are very valid in young children as well as older children in a normal classroom setting. If your child is working on being verbal then it is even more of a problem that they would be in a normal classroom unless the teacher is always facing forward, because it is important to have time and really work on speech understanding and development and teachers who don't deal with d/hoh kids don't realize how much they move around and turn around when they talk and so to say they would be able to work it out really isn't realistic because they never have and have no idea what the problems are with hearing when you are hearing impaired and use a hearing aid or a CI. Children don't hear all the sounds, the sounds that are louder in the classroom such as the chairs moving and the kids stirring dround out the sound and it makes it really hard for them to pick up what the teacher is saying. This is why she would need an FM system, but if your child doesn't currently use one then they would have to get used to it and learn how to hear with it if they are not a proficiant listener yet. Anyway I think I'm rambling now but those are some of the major problems you might run into and should point out, whatever applies. Re: I need help wrote: I think you should do research on all the issues a child can have in a normal class even with an interpreter, Do you know what some of these issues may be? do you mean like acoustics? socialization? The classroom set up can be a problem, there are a lot of factors here, Can you give me some examples? Thank you, Donna Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Yes I haven't done a lot of ress earch myself but yes acoustics can be a problem as well as socialization. They have to make sure the child is learning how to appropriately interact with the other children and able to communicate with them. If they aren't able to communicate that is not an appropriate placement for your child. As far as classroom set up goes see if they have a soundfield set up. Also the child should always be in a position to be close to the teacher and the teacher has to face the child at all times so the child can hear and see her better. I think one of the biggest arguements you have would be that in a classroom setting especially pre-school the teacher is not going to be facing the child all the time, so the child may not be able to hear her well or be able to lip read. With an interpreter, the child will not be able to take notes because you can't look at what you are writing and the interpreter at the same time, so this is why an interpreter is hard to utilize in young children and well any child. You would also need to have someone to take notes and stuff. I don't have a ton of info on this as we haven't needed an interpreter up to this point, but I have looked into it a little and that is really the only info I have right now on the problems associated. So focus on the fact that the teacher can't face the child all the time, the child can't hear well (I think you said you have a boy and a girl so I'm not sure which we are talking about here) and can't utilize lip reading. An interpreter can interpret, but if the instructions are to trace something or draw something or anything that requires visual attention it is going to be a problem because the child is unable to attend to the interpreter and the work. Those points are very valid in young children as well as older children in a normal classroom setting. If your child is working on being verbal then it is even more of a problem that they would be in a normal classroom unless the teacher is always facing forward, because it is important to have time and really work on speech understanding and development and teachers who don't deal with d/hoh kids don't realize how much they move around and turn around when they talk and so to say they would be able to work it out really isn't realistic because they never have and have no idea what the problems are with hearing when you are hearing impaired and use a hearing aid or a CI. Children don't hear all the sounds, the sounds that are louder in the classroom such as the chairs moving and the kids stirring dround out the sound and it makes it really hard for them to pick up what the teacher is saying. This is why she would need an FM system, but if your child doesn't currently use one then they would have to get used to it and learn how to hear with it if they are not a proficiant listener yet. Anyway I think I'm rambling now but those are some of the major problems you might run into and should point out, whatever applies. Re: I need help wrote: I think you should do research on all the issues a child can have in a normal class even with an interpreter, Do you know what some of these issues may be? do you mean like acoustics? socialization? The classroom set up can be a problem, there are a lot of factors here, Can you give me some examples? Thank you, Donna Fisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 The difference that needs to be addressed is what is APPROPRIATE for you child and what you WANT or FEEL they need. Schools are not obligated to provide the BEST education for kids - but rather what is apporpriate. FAPE = Free, Appropriate Public Education. I cannot recall the details of yoru situation, but here is an example: Say the school wants to move you child to another school for whatever reason. What is it about the new placement that makes is appropriate? Does it have better acoustics? Is there staff there that can better aid your child? Is it your child's home school (therefore the 1st placement option) and your child is ready to have full/partial inclusion in a mainstream setting? There should be evidence to justify such a decision. If you are against a move, what evidence supports your opinion? It cannot be that your child doesn't want to leave his/her friends, etc., UNLESS that specific social interaction can only be provided at the former location and not at the new one. A large part of why my daughter is in school out of district is because there is a D/HH program that provides her with social interaction she could not get here. Think in terms of what is appropriate, not what you want. You will need evidence to support your opinion. That can be research, professional opinions, or could be the positive results of providing specific services at particular locations (if your child is doing well where they are, and the school wants a change, why? Is it appropriate?). Placement can always be a dicey situation. Schools are obligated to educate children in the LRE (Least Restrictive Environment) and provide a continum of options. First choice would be a mainstream class in the home school. Then mainstream + pull-out services (resource room, teacher of the deaf). Then partial inclusion (self-contained class + mainstream). Then self contained program in the home school. Then other options - self contained in another school, out of district, state school for the deaf, etc. The one source you referenced in an earlier email addressed LRE and the secretary was finding schools were interpreting IDEA incorrectly. If the school wants a change, I would kindly request for the evidence that supported that decision. Review their findings and why they feel the new placement would be more appropriate. Sometimes when kids are doing well where they are schools will want to take away services and move towards mainstreaming. Your response may be that the services that have been provided are the reason your child has been successful and taking them away would not be appropriate, and your child cannot afford the risk of trying a new placement on a trial basis, especially when her current placement is working well for her. Anytime you WANT something for you child or FEEL/THINK they need something, substitute the word APPROPRIATE and back it up with evidence whenever you can! (ex: " I think she needs speech 3 times a week " -- " Considering her language delays and ongoing struggles with vocabulary, speech services 3 times a week would be appropriate " ) Hope this helps. Colin _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K & sc_extcmp=JS_JASwee\ p_MSNHotm2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 The difference that needs to be addressed is what is APPROPRIATE for you child and what you WANT or FEEL they need. Schools are not obligated to provide the BEST education for kids - but rather what is apporpriate. FAPE = Free, Appropriate Public Education. I cannot recall the details of yoru situation, but here is an example: Say the school wants to move you child to another school for whatever reason. What is it about the new placement that makes is appropriate? Does it have better acoustics? Is there staff there that can better aid your child? Is it your child's home school (therefore the 1st placement option) and your child is ready to have full/partial inclusion in a mainstream setting? There should be evidence to justify such a decision. If you are against a move, what evidence supports your opinion? It cannot be that your child doesn't want to leave his/her friends, etc., UNLESS that specific social interaction can only be provided at the former location and not at the new one. A large part of why my daughter is in school out of district is because there is a D/HH program that provides her with social interaction she could not get here. Think in terms of what is appropriate, not what you want. You will need evidence to support your opinion. That can be research, professional opinions, or could be the positive results of providing specific services at particular locations (if your child is doing well where they are, and the school wants a change, why? Is it appropriate?). Placement can always be a dicey situation. Schools are obligated to educate children in the LRE (Least Restrictive Environment) and provide a continum of options. First choice would be a mainstream class in the home school. Then mainstream + pull-out services (resource room, teacher of the deaf). Then partial inclusion (self-contained class + mainstream). Then self contained program in the home school. Then other options - self contained in another school, out of district, state school for the deaf, etc. The one source you referenced in an earlier email addressed LRE and the secretary was finding schools were interpreting IDEA incorrectly. If the school wants a change, I would kindly request for the evidence that supported that decision. Review their findings and why they feel the new placement would be more appropriate. Sometimes when kids are doing well where they are schools will want to take away services and move towards mainstreaming. Your response may be that the services that have been provided are the reason your child has been successful and taking them away would not be appropriate, and your child cannot afford the risk of trying a new placement on a trial basis, especially when her current placement is working well for her. Anytime you WANT something for you child or FEEL/THINK they need something, substitute the word APPROPRIATE and back it up with evidence whenever you can! (ex: " I think she needs speech 3 times a week " -- " Considering her language delays and ongoing struggles with vocabulary, speech services 3 times a week would be appropriate " ) Hope this helps. Colin _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K & sc_extcmp=JS_JASwee\ p_MSNHotm2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 The difference that needs to be addressed is what is APPROPRIATE for you child and what you WANT or FEEL they need. Schools are not obligated to provide the BEST education for kids - but rather what is apporpriate. FAPE = Free, Appropriate Public Education. I cannot recall the details of yoru situation, but here is an example: Say the school wants to move you child to another school for whatever reason. What is it about the new placement that makes is appropriate? Does it have better acoustics? Is there staff there that can better aid your child? Is it your child's home school (therefore the 1st placement option) and your child is ready to have full/partial inclusion in a mainstream setting? There should be evidence to justify such a decision. If you are against a move, what evidence supports your opinion? It cannot be that your child doesn't want to leave his/her friends, etc., UNLESS that specific social interaction can only be provided at the former location and not at the new one. A large part of why my daughter is in school out of district is because there is a D/HH program that provides her with social interaction she could not get here. Think in terms of what is appropriate, not what you want. You will need evidence to support your opinion. That can be research, professional opinions, or could be the positive results of providing specific services at particular locations (if your child is doing well where they are, and the school wants a change, why? Is it appropriate?). Placement can always be a dicey situation. Schools are obligated to educate children in the LRE (Least Restrictive Environment) and provide a continum of options. First choice would be a mainstream class in the home school. Then mainstream + pull-out services (resource room, teacher of the deaf). Then partial inclusion (self-contained class + mainstream). Then self contained program in the home school. Then other options - self contained in another school, out of district, state school for the deaf, etc. The one source you referenced in an earlier email addressed LRE and the secretary was finding schools were interpreting IDEA incorrectly. If the school wants a change, I would kindly request for the evidence that supported that decision. Review their findings and why they feel the new placement would be more appropriate. Sometimes when kids are doing well where they are schools will want to take away services and move towards mainstreaming. Your response may be that the services that have been provided are the reason your child has been successful and taking them away would not be appropriate, and your child cannot afford the risk of trying a new placement on a trial basis, especially when her current placement is working well for her. Anytime you WANT something for you child or FEEL/THINK they need something, substitute the word APPROPRIATE and back it up with evidence whenever you can! (ex: " I think she needs speech 3 times a week " -- " Considering her language delays and ongoing struggles with vocabulary, speech services 3 times a week would be appropriate " ) Hope this helps. Colin _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K & sc_extcmp=JS_JASwee\ p_MSNHotm2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 Donna, I am right there with you. My daughter is transitioning into Kindergarten this year also. I feel so clueless, yet I am trying to educate myself everyway I can. I truly felt the current preschool deaf/hoh program she was in would help out more in preparing me for what was ahead of me in this transition process, but they are so vague when they explain the actual process. When I talk to the people in my district, about her transition I become very stressed out, like I feel like I should of been told more or know more. I have been reading away, I found several books on Mainstreaming Deaf/HOH children that hopefully, I will complete before totally making my decision on placement for her. I have several options available to me, one is partial inclusion-self contained program & mainstream afternoon kindergarten, or fully mainstreaming through my school district. My daughter however, has expressed that she wants to go to the school her brother went to. However, the have not really dealt with hard of hearing children especially one with a moderate to severe hearing loss. I just wanted to let you know, I am right there with you. Feel free to email me if I can help in anyway. Also I would like to add. I truly appreciate everyone's input on the IEP questions other's have asked. I am gathering up all this knowledge and writing down key points to have on hand. This list is a blessing when it comes to the next step in this journey. Just when we think we have it all down, another obstacle gets in our way. Without this list, I would be at my wits end. Thanks to all of you, that spend so much of your time helping along the way. We couldn't do it without you. Take Care Colleen Mom to le 5 moderate to severe conductive loss, asthma, allergies, etc Mom to 9 hearing asthma and allergies. Re: Re: I need help > Kay and everyone, > I thank you for all the info you sent me. I am just at the end of my rope!! I have more questions for you (please bare with me, i'm almost in tears here). I went to the site that Kay sent me and read the whole page. I have some questions about it though. I just want to thank all of you!! I am just so stressed out about all of this. > > A desperate mother, > Donna > mother to ny & > > I might have more questions about the emails that people sent in reply to my first one. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much!!!!! > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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