Re: Digest Number 1101

[Guest guest]

on 8/03/00 5:59 PM, Jerry at jerrycam@... wrote:

> This is going to depend on how the whey is working. If the whey is providing

> reduced cysteine (amino acids) then taking it with bromelain will not affect

> it or even help instead of hurt. If it is providing some enzymatic,

> antimicrobial or structural activity, then the denaturation will hurt.

> Since whey is increasing glutathione, I would suspect that it is providing

> cysteines, which are glutathione components. But that is just a guess on my

> part at the moment. (If anyone knows anything one way or another I would be

> interested in hearing.)

Hi Jerry,

I read a book about the 'discovery' of Immunocal by Gustavo Bounous, written

by someone else. In there I recall some studies Gustavo did to determine

whether the whey protein was increasing glutathione (GSH) by simply

providing amino acid precursors (cysteine). From my memory of the

experiment, he tested the whey protein against a casein-based formula that

was supplemented with an equivalent amount cysteine to the whey, against

just the pure amino acid precursors. the result was that the whey protein

was unique in its ability to produce intracellular GSH, which was not

explainable by its ability to simply provide precursors.

The long and short of the experiment he did showed that it is something

unique about the whey protein gestalt that produced the intracellular GSH

increases. Something about the precise molecular conformation of the

peptide chains, or something like that...

If I had the book here I could be more accurate than that.

Hud

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody, I might be back on oline, not sure yet, but hope that my email

is fixed and will stay that away, I have missed you all, and I want to

publicly thanks those of you that have sent me snail mail. You made my day!!!

Update on me

I had a rough six weeks, where the pain was so bad, I could not even dress

myself. When I went to the dr he started me on the Meth and told me to stop

the Pred. for which I was happy but the pain got worse and worse, and he said

later he did not say t stop the Pred. But he did. Anyway, I am five weeks now

on the Meth, and stopped the prednisone again three days, ago, and so far the

pain is still gone. The pred. worked on my nerves, moods and weight. I am

now a little over a week without pain. (smile)

I hope each and every one of you are doing well.

Kitt

[Guest guest]

Kitt,

It's nice to hear from you Kitt! I hope your email problem has been

straightened out. I'm happy to hear that your doctor started you on mtx. I

hope it helps you.

a

----- Original Message -----

From: <kitt0213@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 6:03 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Digest Number 1101

> Hi everybody, I might be back on oline, not sure yet, but hope that my

email

> is fixed and will stay that away, I have missed you all, and I want to

> publicly thanks those of you that have sent me snail mail. You made my

day!!!

>

> Update on me

> I had a rough six weeks, where the pain was so bad, I could not even dress

> myself. When I went to the dr he started me on the Meth and told me to

stop

> the Pred. for which I was happy but the pain got worse and worse, and he

said

> later he did not say t stop the Pred. But he did. Anyway, I am five weeks

now

> on the Meth, and stopped the prednisone again three days, ago, and so far

the

> pain is still gone. The pred. worked on my nerves, moods and weight. I am

> now a little over a week without pain. (smile)

>

> I hope each and every one of you are doing well.

> Kitt

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Would you like to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on saving

> more each month? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you Long

Distance

> rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!

> 1/2567/6/_/478567/_/960458588/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> URL to change your membership options:

/group/

> RA-support website: http://www.rasupport.webprovider.com/

> Our chat room: www.delphi.com/RheumatoidArth1/start

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Yaakov,

>

> I read that the therapeutic whey is very fragile and that

>decomposition

>through over-processing and heavy-duty mixing will lesson its benefits.

>With this line of reasoning should one avoid taking enzyme supplements like

>bromelain together with the whey? As this might accelerate its breakdown

>since bromelain is a protein digesting enzyme.

This is going to depend on how the whey is working. If the whey is providing

reduced cysteine (amino acids) then taking it with bromelain will not affect

it or even help instead of hurt. If it is providing some enzymatic,

antimicrobial or structural activity, then the denaturation will hurt.

Since whey is increasing glutathione, I would suspect that it is providing

cysteines, which are glutathione components. But that is just a guess on my

part at the moment. (If anyone knows anything one way or another I would be

interested in hearing.)

The kind of degradation that happens in processing or overzealous mixing is

denaturation - the kind of thing that happens to egg white in heat. It would

make some amino acids in the protein less digestible, and probably allow

some of the cysteines to be oxidized, making them useless for glutathione

synthesis.

Jerry

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Hud,

I have the same book. Bounous proposed that the nondenatured whey

protein has unbroken cystine bonds (two cysteine molecules bonded

together), whereas normally pasteruized whey has broken cystine

bonds.

I could not find in the book any discussion of whether he had

actually tested this hypothesis. It sounded like he just " knew " it

was true, and then went on to commercialize Immunocal. I have heard

someone else argue that the cystine bonds are not broken under normal

pasteurization conditions, so I'm not sure what the actual story is.

I'd really like to know.

Rich

>

> > This is going to depend on how the whey is working. If the whey

is

providing

> > reduced cysteine (amino acids) then taking it with bromelain will

not affect

> > it or even help instead of hurt. If it is providing some

enzymatic,

> > antimicrobial or structural activity, then the denaturation will

hurt.

> > Since whey is increasing glutathione, I would suspect that it is

providing

> > cysteines, which are glutathione components. But that is just a

guess on my

> > part at the moment. (If anyone knows anything one way or another

I

would be

> > interested in hearing.)

>

> Hi Jerry,

>

> I read a book about the 'discovery' of Immunocal by Gustavo

Bounous,

written

> by someone else. In there I recall some studies Gustavo did to

determine

> whether the whey protein was increasing glutathione (GSH) by simply

> providing amino acid precursors (cysteine). From my memory of the

> experiment, he tested the whey protein against a casein-based

formula that

> was supplemented with an equivalent amount cysteine to the whey,

against

> just the pure amino acid precursors. the result was that the whey

protein

> was unique in its ability to produce intracellular GSH, which was

not

> explainable by its ability to simply provide precursors.

>

> The long and short of the experiment he did showed that it is

something

> unique about the whey protein gestalt that produced the

intracellular GSH

> increases. Something about the precise molecular conformation of

the

> peptide chains, or something like that...

>

> If I had the book here I could be more accurate than that.

>

> Hud

[Guest guest]

Greetings Everyone-

Well, I am normally a lurker. I have been following this list for a little over

a month now. I have had psoriasis since I was 10. I am now just 30. Some of

you have mentioned taking Donvonex and now it doesn't work for you anymore. My

Dr. prescribed Donovonex for the week and ultravate for the weekend. She told

me often times GP's just prescribe one ointment after another and eventually

none work since you build up a tolerance. By switching ointments like I do it

keeps me from building up a tolerance. I have been switching between the two

for about two years now. I get cleared up and then a couple months later it

comes back. The ointments still continue to work. My psoriasis is fairly bad.

I have it on my scalp, arms, knees, stomach,ears, sides, back and feet. I have

had at it one time under the finger nails and lost all my fingernails.

Fortunately it has been only a one time occurrence. My deepest sympathy for

those who continue to have it under your fingernails!

.. It was for me by far the wors

t place to have it.

I was diagnosed with PA when I was 22. I have been fortunate. After only one

month of my GP trying a variety of things and I continued to get worse he

referred me to a rheumy who diagnosed me immediately. I tried mtx for about

nine months but my liver couldn't tolerate it so off of it I came. I moved to

CA and it immediately went into remission and I was taking no medication not

even over the counter medication. However, I moved to Oklahoma and it almost

immediately began to flare up. I worked with my GP for about a year with it and

it was fairly under control. Then we couldn't get the swelling to come down in

one finger. So she referred me to a rheumy. The rheumy turned out to be

excellent. She is on the cutting edge of things. She has been prescribing

Enbrel for several years now - only recently to PA suffers. Since I have tried

mtx she decided to start me off on Enbrel. Now as a person who is phobic to

needles this did not appeal to me. Plus, I really haven't !

been slowed down by my PA. I co

ntinue to go camping, rappelling, rock climbing, hiking, canoeing, biking,

roller blading, traveling (I love Europe especially Ireland and Germany)etc.

However, when my rheumy showed me my x-rays and I had bone damage in fingers,

lower back and ankles I decided to give Enbrel a shot. Plus my partner is a

phlebotomist - she is in school for nursing - and she is able to give me my

shots. I have had two shots thus far. The swelling in the one finger has been

reduced a bunch. My morning stiffness is almost completely gone. But the

biggest thing I have noticed is I am freezing all the time!! My partner and I

determined it has to be the great reduction of inflammation. I also have had no

site reactions. Two days later you can't even tell where I got the shot. So I

take enbrel and Relafen for my PA and it seems to be working. I also take a

flexarill before I got to bed to help me sleep. Occasionally I take a davorcet

but only at bedtime. I am also a diabetic with high cho!

lesterol and extremely bad aller

gies which trigger my asthma.(All of which my mother has except for PA...I think

I got the short end of the stick when it comes to heredity) I am in a committed

relationship with two step daughters (10 & 12). I also have gone through a

gambit of drugs because I don't tolerate medications well. Arthotec cause me to

throw up blood, mtx raised my liver enzymes, vioxx did nothing for me, celebrex

made me worse and the list goes on. So needless to say I can sympathize with

many of you and understand what you are going through. I agree with everyone

that you have to find the positives in life and focus on them and not let the

PA get you down. I don't let the PA stop me from doing what I want to do. I

just make accommodations. I am a firm believer that the more positive you are

about things and life the better you will feel and the less the PA will affect

your life. However, except for my initial onset of PA I must admit I don't

believe I have gotten nearly as bad as some o!

f you have mentioned. I can mak

e my hour commute in the morning to work no problem...I can even drive five

hours to see my folks with no problem. I don't have extreme swelling except for

one joint at a time. For the most part I am fairly good. Don't get me wrong I

do have times of fatigue and can at times fall asleep shortly after I put the

kids to bed. Plus prior to Enbrel my morning stiffness was bad. It was all I

could do to waddle into the bathroom and take a hot shower which always helped

me a lot. I had not been going to the gym the past several months and lifting

weights because my PA had gotten bad. However, I do want to say in my years of

experience with PA a few things I have learned is that each person has to find

out what works for them. That PA and P are set to the individual and the same

course of treatment doesn't work consistently across the board for everyone and

it seems to be the only medication that I have seen or heard that if tolerated

by the individual statically has a high succ!

ess rate. However, it is up to

each individual what course of treatment to take. Diet, religion, and mtx may

work for you and if it does great. Personally, Enbrel seems to be a miracle

drug for me and if I can tolerate it I will continue to take it.

Okay, I feel I have rambled on enough. Hope everyone is having a wonderful and

joyful day. Have you smelled the flowers today? Felt the sun on your face?

Smiled at a child today? If not, and your feeling bad try it, it might brighten

your day!

Robyn

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for the recipe! I'll start on it just as soon as I can get

the ingredients. What is and where do I obtain emulsifying wax? And paraben

preservative?? Think I can manage the rest.

Sonerila

>

> Ingredients

> 1 ½ tsp cocoa butter

> 5gms beeswax

> 10ml almond oil with a dropperful of wheatgerm oil

> 45ml orange flower water/orange flower infusion (use mineral water if

> preferred)

> 5-10gms emulsifying wax

> 5-10 drops orange eo

> optional: about ½ tsp stearic acid for heavier feel

> optional: paraben preservative unless you are happy to keep the

> finished product in the fridge.

>

> Melt oils and waxed over a very low heat preferably in a double

> boiler. Use as little heat as possible so the oils don't evaporate

> away too much. At the same time heat the orange flower water with the

> stearin and emulsifying wax but again using as little heat as

> possible. When everything is melted mix the two liquids together in

> the double boiler, gradually adding the water mix to the oil mix while

> whisking them. Take off the heat and keep whisking until the mix turns

> creamy. Leave for 10 mins or so and whisk more. Add the orange eo plus

> paraben if using. Then carefully add about a tablespoon of water at a

> time until you get a texture you like on your hands. I find about 5 or

> 6 times is sometimes needed - you want a creamy texture but a `wet'

> feel as well. The cream should be white at first when you rub your

> hands together, then melt into the skin leaving a slightly waxy feel.

> Keep the handcream in the fridge if no paraben has been added - it

> will keep 2 months.

>

> Have fun, Hrimalf

>

[Guest guest]

Hello

Please tell me what recipe is this.

Thanks

Debra

[Guest guest]

barbara,

congrats on becoming a grandparent. big boy!

joanne

[Guest guest]

Please show me how to go back receiving messages as I did before. This is too confusing to me. Kentucky Cowboy, are you there? I keep sending you letters, but they come back undeliverable. ~Rheumatoid Arthritis wrote:

[Guest guest]

Yes Shell ,

I 'm here just send mine to kentuckycowboy1@...

john shelly smiegal <shelsmieg2000@...> wrote:

Please show me how to go back receiving messages as I did before. This is too confusing to me. Kentucky Cowboy, are you there? I keep sending you letters, but they come back undeliverable. ~Rheumatoid Arthritis wrote: