Re: have your cake and eat it, too

[Guest guest]

I might be off base, but I think that by

denying yourself the Chinese buffet it just becomes bigger and bigger.

I liked the suggestion of making peace

with certain foods. One thing I read is to pick a binge food and have it

with you all the time and when you are hungry, eat some, and stop when you are

satisfied. You know you can have more in a couple of hours. Or, if

you like potato chips, buy ten bags – you are not going to eat all those

at once, and it means that when you want some, they are there. If you eat

one bag, replace it so you always have ten. Now, mind you, I have not

tried this (I would do it with Cheetos) but it makes sense. If you have

only one bag, the tendency is to hurry up and eat it so you don’t have to

think about not trying to eat it tomorrow. But if you have ten bags, the “excitement”

will dissipate. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Alana’s

story seems to follow this, I suppose you could buy ten containers of ice

cream. Alana, I liked what you wrote, that you didn’t deny yourself

the ice cream, because that is what you really wanted. And, as all the

books say, the craving eventually went away because your body learned to trust

that it could have ice cream at any time. And (if following this

example) would have a bowl of Dove chocolates out all the time, readily

available.

I think for most of us, the “bad”

food thing is so common. I think by having the bad foods readily

available, eventually the excitement and desire will go away. I know that

most of the “diet” books say to cleanse your environment, but then

the “bad” foods just become “badder” J and more

desirable. We want what we can’t have. And when we can have

what we want, food becomes just food.

Kate

From:

IntuitiveEating_Support

[mailto:IntuitiveEating_Support ] On Behalf Of Tailyn Grey

I don't know

how I did today. I can't think about it much anymore. It gets tiring. Tonight I

took a bag of cookies that I had in the freezer and ate them. I am glad there

were not more cookies in the bag, otherwise I might have eaten those, too. I am

not overly full, but my mouth has the residual taste from the cookies, which I

don't like. It's a little bitter, but the cookies were good. I am sad tonight,

a few things happened that made me feel bad, I don't know if eating the cookies

had anything to do with how I felt. I don't want to weigh myself. I feel

pressured to do 'better' tomorrow, but I know I'll just go back to the same

routine, perhaps try to do better, make better choices. Not sure, because

eating out, especially at the Chinese buffet, is a big temptation for me, one I

find great difficulty refusing. When I was thin, I ate very little. I was not

overly thin, in other words, I was not emaciated. But I don't want to go back

there and suffer by restraining myself from eating. Meantime, I suffer because

I am overweight. Either way, I feel I am going to suffer. Tai

From: Alana

<ajslinton@...

I think it is part of the

process for some of us to have certain perviously forbidden foods that we

overindulge in for a period of time. I know for me it was chocolate and ice

cream. I think I had ice cream every single night for more than a year wether I

was hungry or not. Eventually I got kind of tired of it and realized it didn't

make me feel very good. It finally lost it's hold over me. My body finally

realized that if I really wanted ice cream I could have it at any time I

wanted. I played with it, sometimes having it for dinner or for breakfast. I

also realized what emotional connection I had to ice cream. My Mom who was a WW

freak would not allow us to have ice cream. If we had anything it was homemade

plain yogurt or ice milk. But when I went to my Dad's on the weekends it was a

ritual to go for a walk after dinner and then come home and make an ice cream

sundae and watch TV. I equated ice cream to my Dad's love, subconsciously. Plus

I made it a habit to eat my ice cream in front of the TV. Eventually I didn't

want to do this every single night. I still occassionaly have ice cream but it

is now an occassional event. And to be honest, it just doesn't make me feel

very good. So I eat it less and less. Also, incorporating more activities into

my life such as Zumba classes and volunteering opportunties, I don't have the

habit of eating my beloved foods in front of the TV.

Alana

>

> Tai, Boy can I understand and relate to this. I did the same thing with

> chocolate Dove pieces. Conflicted between " I could eat just one "

and " I can

> have as many as I wanted " , I ate as many as I wanted. I did stop

because I

> started feeling yucky, but it was after I had eaten quite a few. The

> conflict for me is between unconditional permission to eat any food and

> listening to my body. I tend to " forget " the other caveat of eat

when

> you're hungry and stop when you're full. I was not hungry when I ate the

> chocolate. I had just eaten a full meal. It was an emotional reaction to

> the events of the day. I have gone back to re-reading IE, especially

Chapter

> 7 right now. I am having difficulty reconciling the concepts of

> unconditional permission and not making myself sick. Is that still diet

> mentality? And when and how does that change over to making peace with

> food? If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself

> unconditional permission to eat them? How do I make peace with that. If I

> choose to eat healthy foods and reject unhealthy ones is that the same

> mentality of " good " food versus " bad food " ? I am going

back to that chapter

> 7 again. Maybe this time something will click. Sandy

>

[Guest guest]

Kate,

I agree with you about the theory and application of keeping around all those formerly restricted foods. Their preciousness dissipates when there is an excess amount. Like the law of supply and demand, when there is more of a good its price (or value) drops. I also understand the theory of not labeling foods as "bad" or "good" because it imbues the so-called bad foods with undue power over us.

However, it is difficult to turn a blind-eye to the ingredients in processed food. As a critical thinker, avid reader, and cancer survivor I cannot believe that ingredients such as "Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Maltodextrin, Disodium Phosphate, Artificial Flavor, Monosodium Glutmate, and Artificial Colors (Including Yellow 6) are equivalent to a piece of fresh fruit or vegetable, organically grown. I do not believe in restriction, but it's important to me to fit IE into my knowlege and appreciation of real food versus these so-called "fun foods."

Mimi

Subject: RE: Re: have your cake and eat it, tooTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Date: Friday, July 8, 2011, 12:57 AM

I might be off base, but I think that by denying yourself the Chinese buffet it just becomes bigger and bigger.

I liked the suggestion of making peace with certain foods. One thing I read is to pick a binge food and have it with you all the time and when you are hungry, eat some, and stop when you are satisfied. You know you can have more in a couple of hours. Or, if you like potato chips, buy ten bags – you are not going to eat all those at once, and it means that when you want some, they are there. If you eat one bag, replace it so you always have ten. Now, mind you, I have not tried this (I would do it with Cheetos) but it makes sense. If you have only one bag, the tendency is to hurry up and eat it so you don’t have to think about not trying to eat it tomorrow. But if you have ten bags, the “excitement†will dissipate. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Alana’s story

seems to follow this, I suppose you could buy ten containers of ice cream. Alana, I liked what you wrote, that you didn’t deny yourself the ice cream, because that is what you really wanted. And, as all the books say, the craving eventually went away because your body learned to trust that it could have ice cream at any time. And (if following this example) would have a bowl of Dove chocolates out all the time, readily available.

I think for most of us, the “bad†food thing is so common. I think by having the bad foods readily available, eventually the excitement and desire will go away. I know that most of the “diet†books say to cleanse your environment, but then the “bad†foods just become “badder†J and more desirable. We want what we can’t have. And when we can have what we want, food becomes just food.

Kate

[Guest guest]

Sandy,You ask some really important questions.I wanted to make sure to address this in particular, because I struggled with this A LOT, but feel like I'm in a much better place with it now.

The conflict for me is between unconditional permission to eat any food and listening to my body.  I tend to " forget " the other caveat of eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full.  I was not hungry when I ate the chocolate.  I had just eaten a full meal.  It was an emotional reaction to the events of the day. I have gone back to re-reading IE, especially Chapter 7 right now. I am having difficulty reconciling the concepts of unconditional permission and not making myself sick. Is that still diet mentality?  And when and how does that change over to making peace with food? If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?  How do I make peace with that. If I choose to eat healthy foods and reject unhealthy ones is that the same mentality of " good " food versus " bad food " ?  

First off, and I fear that I sound like a broken record, but honestly, I cannot emphasize this enough.Conscious eating.This is, to me, perhaps the most important part of Intuitive Eating.

To me, this is where to start.Try to focus on your food. Try not to eat while reading or watching TV. It's HARD at first, but it gets easier. Geneen Roth really emphasizes this as well. 

Of note, you don't have to do it all the time to get the benefit... I can eat while multi-tasking now and I am still very aware of body's signals of hunger and fullness.... but it took me time to learn to recognize them.  I started off trying not to multi-task while eating dinner, and then spread it to other meals as it got easier. 

Eating consciously (however you define it -- some folks have other strategies for doing this) will allow you to really experience the taste of the food you are eating, and also to recognize when you are hungry and when you are not.

YES, it's OK to eat when you are not hungry!!! please give yourself permission to do so. i know it sounds crazy! but as long as you don't give yourself permission to eat WHENEVER you want to, you are creating more rules for you to rebel against.

but here's the caveat: just ACKNOWLEDGE that you aren't hungry. then go ahead and eat... WITHOUT JUDGEMENT after a while, the desire to eat when not hungry will die down. ideally, you can acknowledge what emotion is making you want to eat, also. you can offer yourself alternatives for dealing with that emotion, but if none of those appeal, go ahead and eat. (you may always eat emotionally from time to time, but it gets a lot less frequent, in my experience. even " normal " eaters do this from time to time.)

if you eat consciously, even somewhat (ie not ignoring the discomfort of getting full), your body will learn not to make itself sick. it might not happen the first time you try this. keep trying. if it happens the first time, give full forgiveness and don't beat yourself up. every experience in life is a learning experience!

If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?

yes, it's FINE to eat " unhealthy " foods. forbidding them will only increase their allure.here's how i deal with deciding what to eat. if i'm really craving something, i eat it. if the choice is between a " healthier " and an " unhealthier " choice, and both are equally appealing, i choose the healthier one. HOWEVER, if i really want something that i don't feel is healthy... i will eat it. because i think not allowing it will only make me crave it more, and give it more power. this also means that i am now able to leave some of that " unhealthy " food on the plate when i've had enough, because there's no magic in it. i know i can have more whenever i want it. 

yesterday, i ate ONE tortilla chip from a full basket at a restaurant. and the other day, sharing delicious french fries with a friend, we only ate half the basket. this NEVER would have happened in pre-IE days! i would've been sitting on my hands, trying to resist them, and then demolishing the whole basket. this time it was easy. i had as much as i wanted, truly. 

this was very confusing to me for a long time. but ultimately, i thought a lot about what gillian says about choices that " honor my body. " i knew that i would feel better if i used most of the space in my stomach for roasted chicken and sweet plantains, not filling up on tortilla chips. it's not that they are a " bad " food, just that i wouldn't feel as well as if i used the space for these other foods. 

likewise, i've been trying to increase my consumption of protein and fresh fruit and vegetables. because i feel better when i eat them, and i believe they do a better job of nourishing me than processed foods. (in an ideal world, it would be less fruit and more veggies, but i'm also meeting myself where i am now, not shooting for perfection.)  what i do here is try to focus on what i DO want to eat, without trying to eliminate other foods per se. if i want sweets -- and the last two nights i wanted candy -- i still have them, also. interestingly, i found that i didn't want very many sweets before i had had enough. but i'm not labeling them as BAD. 

i hope this is helpful, and not lecture-y. this was NOT an easy concept for me to grasp at all, never mind put into practice!best,abbyIE since 11/08

 

 

Rain, I have to keep asking myself " am I hungry? " .  If the answer is " yes " then I can go ahead and eat.  If the answer is " no " then I need to sit with the feeling for a while.  I am not doing this very well yet though.  I am working on the process. And your observation that NOT eating cake (or whatever) is not an option.  Sandy

[Guest guest]

Sandy,You ask some really important questions.I wanted to make sure to address this in particular, because I struggled with this A LOT, but feel like I'm in a much better place with it now.

The conflict for me is between unconditional permission to eat any food and listening to my body.  I tend to " forget " the other caveat of eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full.  I was not hungry when I ate the chocolate.  I had just eaten a full meal.  It was an emotional reaction to the events of the day. I have gone back to re-reading IE, especially Chapter 7 right now. I am having difficulty reconciling the concepts of unconditional permission and not making myself sick. Is that still diet mentality?  And when and how does that change over to making peace with food? If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?  How do I make peace with that. If I choose to eat healthy foods and reject unhealthy ones is that the same mentality of " good " food versus " bad food " ?  

First off, and I fear that I sound like a broken record, but honestly, I cannot emphasize this enough.Conscious eating.This is, to me, perhaps the most important part of Intuitive Eating.

To me, this is where to start.Try to focus on your food. Try not to eat while reading or watching TV. It's HARD at first, but it gets easier. Geneen Roth really emphasizes this as well. 

Of note, you don't have to do it all the time to get the benefit... I can eat while multi-tasking now and I am still very aware of body's signals of hunger and fullness.... but it took me time to learn to recognize them.  I started off trying not to multi-task while eating dinner, and then spread it to other meals as it got easier. 

Eating consciously (however you define it -- some folks have other strategies for doing this) will allow you to really experience the taste of the food you are eating, and also to recognize when you are hungry and when you are not.

YES, it's OK to eat when you are not hungry!!! please give yourself permission to do so. i know it sounds crazy! but as long as you don't give yourself permission to eat WHENEVER you want to, you are creating more rules for you to rebel against.

but here's the caveat: just ACKNOWLEDGE that you aren't hungry. then go ahead and eat... WITHOUT JUDGEMENT after a while, the desire to eat when not hungry will die down. ideally, you can acknowledge what emotion is making you want to eat, also. you can offer yourself alternatives for dealing with that emotion, but if none of those appeal, go ahead and eat. (you may always eat emotionally from time to time, but it gets a lot less frequent, in my experience. even " normal " eaters do this from time to time.)

if you eat consciously, even somewhat (ie not ignoring the discomfort of getting full), your body will learn not to make itself sick. it might not happen the first time you try this. keep trying. if it happens the first time, give full forgiveness and don't beat yourself up. every experience in life is a learning experience!

If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?

yes, it's FINE to eat " unhealthy " foods. forbidding them will only increase their allure.here's how i deal with deciding what to eat. if i'm really craving something, i eat it. if the choice is between a " healthier " and an " unhealthier " choice, and both are equally appealing, i choose the healthier one. HOWEVER, if i really want something that i don't feel is healthy... i will eat it. because i think not allowing it will only make me crave it more, and give it more power. this also means that i am now able to leave some of that " unhealthy " food on the plate when i've had enough, because there's no magic in it. i know i can have more whenever i want it. 

yesterday, i ate ONE tortilla chip from a full basket at a restaurant. and the other day, sharing delicious french fries with a friend, we only ate half the basket. this NEVER would have happened in pre-IE days! i would've been sitting on my hands, trying to resist them, and then demolishing the whole basket. this time it was easy. i had as much as i wanted, truly. 

this was very confusing to me for a long time. but ultimately, i thought a lot about what gillian says about choices that " honor my body. " i knew that i would feel better if i used most of the space in my stomach for roasted chicken and sweet plantains, not filling up on tortilla chips. it's not that they are a " bad " food, just that i wouldn't feel as well as if i used the space for these other foods. 

likewise, i've been trying to increase my consumption of protein and fresh fruit and vegetables. because i feel better when i eat them, and i believe they do a better job of nourishing me than processed foods. (in an ideal world, it would be less fruit and more veggies, but i'm also meeting myself where i am now, not shooting for perfection.)  what i do here is try to focus on what i DO want to eat, without trying to eliminate other foods per se. if i want sweets -- and the last two nights i wanted candy -- i still have them, also. interestingly, i found that i didn't want very many sweets before i had had enough. but i'm not labeling them as BAD. 

i hope this is helpful, and not lecture-y. this was NOT an easy concept for me to grasp at all, never mind put into practice!best,abbyIE since 11/08

 

 

Rain, I have to keep asking myself " am I hungry? " .  If the answer is " yes " then I can go ahead and eat.  If the answer is " no " then I need to sit with the feeling for a while.  I am not doing this very well yet though.  I am working on the process. And your observation that NOT eating cake (or whatever) is not an option.  Sandy

[Guest guest]

Abby, I like everything you said. I would also add that eating when hungry, and knowing how foods feel inside my body has made me reassess what is healthy and what is not. For example, there is a deep dish pizza that I love, but would never include in dieting. Whenever I eat it though, it feels good! It has a ton of tomatoes and basil and chicken in it, and now I know it IS healthy! Also, cheese and nuts - healthy! These would all have been "bad" for the dieting me. Rain

From: Abigail WolfsonSent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 8:43 AMTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Subject: Re: have your cake and eat it, too

Sandy,

You ask some really important questions.

I wanted to make sure to address this in particular, because I struggled with this A LOT, but feel like I'm in a much better place with it now.

The conflict for me is between unconditional permission to eat any food and listening to my body. I tend to "forget" the other caveat of eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full. I was not hungry when I ate the chocolate. I had just eaten a full meal. It was an emotional reaction to the events of the day. I have gone back to re-reading IE, especially Chapter 7 right now. I am having difficulty reconciling the concepts of unconditional permission and not making myself sick. Is that still diet mentality? And when and how does that change over to making peace with food? If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them? How do I make peace with that. If I choose to eat healthy foods and reject unhealthy ones is that the same mentality of "good" food versus "bad food"?

First off, and I fear that I sound like a broken record, but honestly, I cannot emphasize this enough.

Conscious eating.

This is, to me, perhaps the most important part of Intuitive Eating.

To me, this is where to start.

Try to focus on your food. Try not to eat while reading or watching TV. It's HARD at first, but it gets easier. Geneen Roth really emphasizes this as well.

Of note, you don't have to do it all the time to get the benefit... I can eat while multi-tasking now and I am still very aware of body's signals of hunger and fullness.... but it took me time to learn to recognize them. I started off trying not to multi-task while eating dinner, and then spread it to other meals as it got easier.

Eating consciously (however you define it -- some folks have other strategies for doing this) will allow you to really experience the taste of the food you are eating, and also to recognize when you are hungry and when you are not.

YES, it's OK to eat when you are not hungry!!! please give yourself permission to do so. i know it sounds crazy! but as long as you don't give yourself permission to eat WHENEVER you want to, you are creating more rules for you to rebel against.

but here's the caveat: just ACKNOWLEDGE that you aren't hungry. then go ahead and eat... WITHOUT JUDGEMENT after a while, the desire to eat when not hungry will die down. ideally, you can acknowledge what emotion is making you want to eat, also. you can offer yourself alternatives for dealing with that emotion, but if none of those appeal, go ahead and eat. (you may always eat emotionally from time to time, but it gets a lot less frequent, in my experience. even "normal" eaters do this from time to time.)

if you eat consciously, even somewhat (ie not ignoring the discomfort of getting full), your body will learn not to make itself sick. it might not happen the first time you try this. keep trying. if it happens the first time, give full forgiveness and don't beat yourself up. every experience in life is a learning experience!

If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?

yes, it's FINE to eat "unhealthy" foods. forbidding them will only increase their allure.

here's how i deal with deciding what to eat. if i'm really craving something, i eat it. if the choice is between a "healthier" and an "unhealthier" choice, and both are equally appealing, i choose the healthier one. HOWEVER, if i really want something that i don't feel is healthy... i will eat it. because i think not allowing it will only make me crave it more, and give it more power. this also means that i am now able to leave some of that "unhealthy" food on the plate when i've had enough, because there's no magic in it. i know i can have more whenever i want it.

yesterday, i ate ONE tortilla chip from a full basket at a restaurant. and the other day, sharing delicious french fries with a friend, we only ate half the basket. this NEVER would have happened in pre-IE days! i would've been sitting on my hands, trying to resist them, and then demolishing the whole basket. this time it was easy. i had as much as i wanted, truly.

this was very confusing to me for a long time. but ultimately, i thought a lot about what gillian says about choices that "honor my body." i knew that i would feel better if i used most of the space in my stomach for roasted chicken and sweet plantains, not filling up on tortilla chips. it's not that they are a "bad" food, just that i wouldn't feel as well as if i used the space for these other foods.

likewise, i've been trying to increase my consumption of protein and fresh fruit and vegetables. because i feel better when i eat them, and i believe they do a better job of nourishing me than processed foods. (in an ideal world, it would be less fruit and more veggies, but i'm also meeting myself where i am now, not shooting for perfection.) what i do here is try to focus on what i DO want to eat, without trying to eliminate other foods per se. if i want sweets -- and the last two nights i wanted candy -- i still have them, also. interestingly, i found that i didn't want very many sweets before i had had enough. but i'm not labeling them as BAD.

i hope this is helpful, and not lecture-y. this was NOT an easy concept for me to grasp at all, never mind put into practice!

best,

abby

IE since 11/08

Rain, I have to keep asking myself "am I hungry?". If the answer is "yes" then I can go ahead and eat. If the answer is "no" then I need to sit with the feeling for a while. I am not doing this very well yet though. I am working on the process. And your observation that NOT eating cake (or whatever) is not an option. Sandy

[Guest guest]

Abby, I like everything you said. I would also add that eating when hungry, and knowing how foods feel inside my body has made me reassess what is healthy and what is not. For example, there is a deep dish pizza that I love, but would never include in dieting. Whenever I eat it though, it feels good! It has a ton of tomatoes and basil and chicken in it, and now I know it IS healthy! Also, cheese and nuts - healthy! These would all have been "bad" for the dieting me. Rain

From: Abigail WolfsonSent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 8:43 AMTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Subject: Re: have your cake and eat it, too

Sandy,

You ask some really important questions.

I wanted to make sure to address this in particular, because I struggled with this A LOT, but feel like I'm in a much better place with it now.

The conflict for me is between unconditional permission to eat any food and listening to my body. I tend to "forget" the other caveat of eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full. I was not hungry when I ate the chocolate. I had just eaten a full meal. It was an emotional reaction to the events of the day. I have gone back to re-reading IE, especially Chapter 7 right now. I am having difficulty reconciling the concepts of unconditional permission and not making myself sick. Is that still diet mentality? And when and how does that change over to making peace with food? If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them? How do I make peace with that. If I choose to eat healthy foods and reject unhealthy ones is that the same mentality of "good" food versus "bad food"?

First off, and I fear that I sound like a broken record, but honestly, I cannot emphasize this enough.

Conscious eating.

This is, to me, perhaps the most important part of Intuitive Eating.

To me, this is where to start.

Try to focus on your food. Try not to eat while reading or watching TV. It's HARD at first, but it gets easier. Geneen Roth really emphasizes this as well.

Of note, you don't have to do it all the time to get the benefit... I can eat while multi-tasking now and I am still very aware of body's signals of hunger and fullness.... but it took me time to learn to recognize them. I started off trying not to multi-task while eating dinner, and then spread it to other meals as it got easier.

Eating consciously (however you define it -- some folks have other strategies for doing this) will allow you to really experience the taste of the food you are eating, and also to recognize when you are hungry and when you are not.

YES, it's OK to eat when you are not hungry!!! please give yourself permission to do so. i know it sounds crazy! but as long as you don't give yourself permission to eat WHENEVER you want to, you are creating more rules for you to rebel against.

but here's the caveat: just ACKNOWLEDGE that you aren't hungry. then go ahead and eat... WITHOUT JUDGEMENT after a while, the desire to eat when not hungry will die down. ideally, you can acknowledge what emotion is making you want to eat, also. you can offer yourself alternatives for dealing with that emotion, but if none of those appeal, go ahead and eat. (you may always eat emotionally from time to time, but it gets a lot less frequent, in my experience. even "normal" eaters do this from time to time.)

if you eat consciously, even somewhat (ie not ignoring the discomfort of getting full), your body will learn not to make itself sick. it might not happen the first time you try this. keep trying. if it happens the first time, give full forgiveness and don't beat yourself up. every experience in life is a learning experience!

If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?

yes, it's FINE to eat "unhealthy" foods. forbidding them will only increase their allure.

here's how i deal with deciding what to eat. if i'm really craving something, i eat it. if the choice is between a "healthier" and an "unhealthier" choice, and both are equally appealing, i choose the healthier one. HOWEVER, if i really want something that i don't feel is healthy... i will eat it. because i think not allowing it will only make me crave it more, and give it more power. this also means that i am now able to leave some of that "unhealthy" food on the plate when i've had enough, because there's no magic in it. i know i can have more whenever i want it.

yesterday, i ate ONE tortilla chip from a full basket at a restaurant. and the other day, sharing delicious french fries with a friend, we only ate half the basket. this NEVER would have happened in pre-IE days! i would've been sitting on my hands, trying to resist them, and then demolishing the whole basket. this time it was easy. i had as much as i wanted, truly.

this was very confusing to me for a long time. but ultimately, i thought a lot about what gillian says about choices that "honor my body." i knew that i would feel better if i used most of the space in my stomach for roasted chicken and sweet plantains, not filling up on tortilla chips. it's not that they are a "bad" food, just that i wouldn't feel as well as if i used the space for these other foods.

likewise, i've been trying to increase my consumption of protein and fresh fruit and vegetables. because i feel better when i eat them, and i believe they do a better job of nourishing me than processed foods. (in an ideal world, it would be less fruit and more veggies, but i'm also meeting myself where i am now, not shooting for perfection.) what i do here is try to focus on what i DO want to eat, without trying to eliminate other foods per se. if i want sweets -- and the last two nights i wanted candy -- i still have them, also. interestingly, i found that i didn't want very many sweets before i had had enough. but i'm not labeling them as BAD.

i hope this is helpful, and not lecture-y. this was NOT an easy concept for me to grasp at all, never mind put into practice!

best,

abby

IE since 11/08

Rain, I have to keep asking myself "am I hungry?". If the answer is "yes" then I can go ahead and eat. If the answer is "no" then I need to sit with the feeling for a while. I am not doing this very well yet though. I am working on the process. And your observation that NOT eating cake (or whatever) is not an option. Sandy

[Guest guest]

Abby, Thanks.  This was a great answer and you put a lot into it.  I appreciate it.  It is helping and I know it will help more as I digest it.  Don't you just love the way we(I) use eating type words. I did this once when I was in counseling when I was very busy.  I commented that I had a " full plate " .  There are so many more.  You did not sound like you were giving a lecture but sharing some important information you have learned from you experience.  How long have you been doing IE?  I have been eating without distractions mostly.  And focus on the food.  In the beginning I actually wrote it down while I was eating.  The color, texture, taste and so on.  And the writing slowed my eating down.  I know this may sound like I was creating a distraction, but it really kept me very focused on the food, and my fullness and satisfaction level.   I have a lot of unhealthy foods that were hard to resist but some I just don " t like anymore, mostly because they made me feel so awful: donuts, pancakes with syrup are 2 I can think of right away.  Yesterday when I went to my daughter's she had fresh Du8nkin Donuts, but I had had breakfast and wasn't hungry. I started to have one but then thought I am not hungry and I don't even like donuts any more and they make me feel awful.  So I didn't have one.  Later that night we went to IHOP and they had some " beautiful " pictures of pancakes on the menu.  I almost ordered some but then remembered how awful I feel afterwards.   I chose bacon and eggs instead. I may not be able to finish this.  Wicked T-storm and want to hit send before I lose power.  Thanks. Sandy

 

Sandy,You ask some really important questions.I wanted to make sure to address this in particular, because I struggled with this A LOT, but feel like I'm in a much better place with it now.

The conflict for me is between unconditional permission to eat any food and listening to my body.  I tend to " forget " the other caveat of eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full.  I was not hungry when I ate the chocolate.  I had just eaten a full meal.  It was an emotional reaction to the events of the day. I have gone back to re-reading IE, especially Chapter 7 right now. I am having difficulty reconciling the concepts of unconditional permission and not making myself sick. Is that still diet mentality?  And when and how does that change over to making peace with food? If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?  How do I make peace with that. If I choose to eat healthy foods and reject unhealthy ones is that the same mentality of " good " food versus " bad food " ?  

First off, and I fear that I sound like a broken record, but honestly, I cannot emphasize this enough.Conscious eating.This is, to me, perhaps the most important part of Intuitive Eating.

To me, this is where to start.Try to focus on your food. Try not to eat while reading or watching TV. It's HARD at first, but it gets easier. Geneen Roth really emphasizes this as well. 

Of note, you don't have to do it all the time to get the benefit... I can eat while multi-tasking now and I am still very aware of body's signals of hunger and fullness.... but it took me time to learn to recognize them.  I started off trying not to multi-task while eating dinner, and then spread it to other meals as it got easier. 

Eating consciously (however you define it -- some folks have other strategies for doing this) will allow you to really experience the taste of the food you are eating, and also to recognize when you are hungry and when you are not.

YES, it's OK to eat when you are not hungry!!! please give yourself permission to do so. i know it sounds crazy! but as long as you don't give yourself permission to eat WHENEVER you want to, you are creating more rules for you to rebel against.

but here's the caveat: just ACKNOWLEDGE that you aren't hungry. then go ahead and eat... WITHOUT JUDGEMENT after a while, the desire to eat when not hungry will die down. ideally, you can acknowledge what emotion is making you want to eat, also. you can offer yourself alternatives for dealing with that emotion, but if none of those appeal, go ahead and eat. (you may always eat emotionally from time to time, but it gets a lot less frequent, in my experience. even " normal " eaters do this from time to time.)

if you eat consciously, even somewhat (ie not ignoring the discomfort of getting full), your body will learn not to make itself sick. it might not happen the first time you try this. keep trying. if it happens the first time, give full forgiveness and don't beat yourself up. every experience in life is a learning experience!

If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?

yes, it's FINE to eat " unhealthy " foods. forbidding them will only increase their allure.here's how i deal with deciding what to eat. if i'm really craving something, i eat it. if the choice is between a " healthier " and an " unhealthier " choice, and both are equally appealing, i choose the healthier one. HOWEVER, if i really want something that i don't feel is healthy... i will eat it. because i think not allowing it will only make me crave it more, and give it more power. this also means that i am now able to leave some of that " unhealthy " food on the plate when i've had enough, because there's no magic in it. i know i can have more whenever i want it. 

yesterday, i ate ONE tortilla chip from a full basket at a restaurant. and the other day, sharing delicious french fries with a friend, we only ate half the basket. this NEVER would have happened in pre-IE days! i would've been sitting on my hands, trying to resist them, and then demolishing the whole basket. this time it was easy. i had as much as i wanted, truly. 

this was very confusing to me for a long time. but ultimately, i thought a lot about what gillian says about choices that " honor my body. " i knew that i would feel better if i used most of the space in my stomach for roasted chicken and sweet plantains, not filling up on tortilla chips. it's not that they are a " bad " food, just that i wouldn't feel as well as if i used the space for these other foods. 

likewise, i've been trying to increase my consumption of protein and fresh fruit and vegetables. because i feel better when i eat them, and i believe they do a better job of nourishing me than processed foods. (in an ideal world, it would be less fruit and more veggies, but i'm also meeting myself where i am now, not shooting for perfection.)  what i do here is try to focus on what i DO want to eat, without trying to eliminate other foods per se. if i want sweets -- and the last two nights i wanted candy -- i still have them, also. interestingly, i found that i didn't want very many sweets before i had had enough. but i'm not labeling them as BAD. 

i hope this is helpful, and not lecture-y. this was NOT an easy concept for me to grasp at all, never mind put into practice!best,abbyIE since 11/08

 

 

Rain, I have to keep asking myself " am I hungry? " .  If the answer is " yes " then I can go ahead and eat.  If the answer is " no " then I need to sit with the feeling for a while.  I am not doing this very well yet though.  I am working on the process. And your observation that NOT eating cake (or whatever) is not an option.  Sandy

[Guest guest]

Abby, Thanks.  This was a great answer and you put a lot into it.  I appreciate it.  It is helping and I know it will help more as I digest it.  Don't you just love the way we(I) use eating type words. I did this once when I was in counseling when I was very busy.  I commented that I had a " full plate " .  There are so many more.  You did not sound like you were giving a lecture but sharing some important information you have learned from you experience.  How long have you been doing IE?  I have been eating without distractions mostly.  And focus on the food.  In the beginning I actually wrote it down while I was eating.  The color, texture, taste and so on.  And the writing slowed my eating down.  I know this may sound like I was creating a distraction, but it really kept me very focused on the food, and my fullness and satisfaction level.   I have a lot of unhealthy foods that were hard to resist but some I just don " t like anymore, mostly because they made me feel so awful: donuts, pancakes with syrup are 2 I can think of right away.  Yesterday when I went to my daughter's she had fresh Du8nkin Donuts, but I had had breakfast and wasn't hungry. I started to have one but then thought I am not hungry and I don't even like donuts any more and they make me feel awful.  So I didn't have one.  Later that night we went to IHOP and they had some " beautiful " pictures of pancakes on the menu.  I almost ordered some but then remembered how awful I feel afterwards.   I chose bacon and eggs instead. I may not be able to finish this.  Wicked T-storm and want to hit send before I lose power.  Thanks. Sandy

 

Sandy,You ask some really important questions.I wanted to make sure to address this in particular, because I struggled with this A LOT, but feel like I'm in a much better place with it now.

The conflict for me is between unconditional permission to eat any food and listening to my body.  I tend to " forget " the other caveat of eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full.  I was not hungry when I ate the chocolate.  I had just eaten a full meal.  It was an emotional reaction to the events of the day. I have gone back to re-reading IE, especially Chapter 7 right now. I am having difficulty reconciling the concepts of unconditional permission and not making myself sick. Is that still diet mentality?  And when and how does that change over to making peace with food? If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?  How do I make peace with that. If I choose to eat healthy foods and reject unhealthy ones is that the same mentality of " good " food versus " bad food " ?  

First off, and I fear that I sound like a broken record, but honestly, I cannot emphasize this enough.Conscious eating.This is, to me, perhaps the most important part of Intuitive Eating.

To me, this is where to start.Try to focus on your food. Try not to eat while reading or watching TV. It's HARD at first, but it gets easier. Geneen Roth really emphasizes this as well. 

Of note, you don't have to do it all the time to get the benefit... I can eat while multi-tasking now and I am still very aware of body's signals of hunger and fullness.... but it took me time to learn to recognize them.  I started off trying not to multi-task while eating dinner, and then spread it to other meals as it got easier. 

Eating consciously (however you define it -- some folks have other strategies for doing this) will allow you to really experience the taste of the food you are eating, and also to recognize when you are hungry and when you are not.

YES, it's OK to eat when you are not hungry!!! please give yourself permission to do so. i know it sounds crazy! but as long as you don't give yourself permission to eat WHENEVER you want to, you are creating more rules for you to rebel against.

but here's the caveat: just ACKNOWLEDGE that you aren't hungry. then go ahead and eat... WITHOUT JUDGEMENT after a while, the desire to eat when not hungry will die down. ideally, you can acknowledge what emotion is making you want to eat, also. you can offer yourself alternatives for dealing with that emotion, but if none of those appeal, go ahead and eat. (you may always eat emotionally from time to time, but it gets a lot less frequent, in my experience. even " normal " eaters do this from time to time.)

if you eat consciously, even somewhat (ie not ignoring the discomfort of getting full), your body will learn not to make itself sick. it might not happen the first time you try this. keep trying. if it happens the first time, give full forgiveness and don't beat yourself up. every experience in life is a learning experience!

If I know certain foods are unhealthy, is it ok to give myself unconditional permission to eat them?

yes, it's FINE to eat " unhealthy " foods. forbidding them will only increase their allure.here's how i deal with deciding what to eat. if i'm really craving something, i eat it. if the choice is between a " healthier " and an " unhealthier " choice, and both are equally appealing, i choose the healthier one. HOWEVER, if i really want something that i don't feel is healthy... i will eat it. because i think not allowing it will only make me crave it more, and give it more power. this also means that i am now able to leave some of that " unhealthy " food on the plate when i've had enough, because there's no magic in it. i know i can have more whenever i want it. 

yesterday, i ate ONE tortilla chip from a full basket at a restaurant. and the other day, sharing delicious french fries with a friend, we only ate half the basket. this NEVER would have happened in pre-IE days! i would've been sitting on my hands, trying to resist them, and then demolishing the whole basket. this time it was easy. i had as much as i wanted, truly. 

this was very confusing to me for a long time. but ultimately, i thought a lot about what gillian says about choices that " honor my body. " i knew that i would feel better if i used most of the space in my stomach for roasted chicken and sweet plantains, not filling up on tortilla chips. it's not that they are a " bad " food, just that i wouldn't feel as well as if i used the space for these other foods. 

likewise, i've been trying to increase my consumption of protein and fresh fruit and vegetables. because i feel better when i eat them, and i believe they do a better job of nourishing me than processed foods. (in an ideal world, it would be less fruit and more veggies, but i'm also meeting myself where i am now, not shooting for perfection.)  what i do here is try to focus on what i DO want to eat, without trying to eliminate other foods per se. if i want sweets -- and the last two nights i wanted candy -- i still have them, also. interestingly, i found that i didn't want very many sweets before i had had enough. but i'm not labeling them as BAD. 

i hope this is helpful, and not lecture-y. this was NOT an easy concept for me to grasp at all, never mind put into practice!best,abbyIE since 11/08

 

 

Rain, I have to keep asking myself " am I hungry? " .  If the answer is " yes " then I can go ahead and eat.  If the answer is " no " then I need to sit with the feeling for a while.  I am not doing this very well yet though.  I am working on the process. And your observation that NOT eating cake (or whatever) is not an option.  Sandy

[Guest guest]

Hello Abby, Sandy and Rain,

I was just reading your posts and just want to say how helpful it is. I am

still trying to get out of the " good food " " bad food "

mentality. It is so helpful to read your posts. Thank you.

Ann

> >

> >> **

> >>

> >>

> >> Rain, I have to keep asking myself " am I hungry? " . If the answer is " yes "

> >> then I can go ahead and eat. If the answer is " no " then I need to sit with

> >> the feeling for a while. I am not doing this very well yet though. I am

> >> working on the process. And your observation that NOT eating cake (or

> >> whatever) is not an option. Sandy

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Abby, Sandy and Rain,

I was just reading your posts and just want to say how helpful it is. I am

still trying to get out of the " good food " " bad food "

mentality. It is so helpful to read your posts. Thank you.

Ann

> >

> >> **

> >>

> >>

> >> Rain, I have to keep asking myself " am I hungry? " . If the answer is " yes "

> >> then I can go ahead and eat. If the answer is " no " then I need to sit with

> >> the feeling for a while. I am not doing this very well yet though. I am

> >> working on the process. And your observation that NOT eating cake (or

> >> whatever) is not an option. Sandy

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tai,

I have gone through what you have described so many times now that I have lost count! I put my cookies and reese's peanut butter bars in the freezer so that they are not visable, and I think that it takes longer to eat when they are frozen. When I am stressed out I usually loose track of what I eat throughout the day and at the end of the day do not care about calories and end up eating the snack food in the freezer. So, Don't feel bad! Just try to focus on the positive things that happened throughout the day and then work on the dietary changes that you would like to make tomorrow

Adelle

To: "IntuitiveEating_Support " <IntuitiveEating_Support >Sent: Friday, July 8, 2011 12:08 AMSubject: Re: Re: have your cake and eat it, too

I don't know how I did today. I can't think about it much anymore. It gets tiring. Tonight I took a bag of cookies that I had in the freezer and ate them. I am glad there were not more cookies in the bag, otherwise I might have eaten those, too. I am not overly full, but my mouth has the residual taste from the cookies, which I don't like. It's a little bitter, but the cookies were good. I am sad tonight, a few things happened that made me feel bad, I don't know if eating the cookies had anything to do with how I felt. I don't want to weigh myself. I feel pressured to do 'better' tomorrow, but I know I'll just go back to the same routine, perhaps try to do better, make better choices. Not sure, because eating out, especially at the Chinese buffet, is a big temptation for me, one I find great difficulty refusing. When I was thin, I ate very little. I was not overly thin, in other words, I was not emaciated. But I don't want to go back

there and suffer by restraining myself from eating. Meantime, I suffer because I am overweight. Either way, I feel I am going to suffer. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2011 11:14 AMSubject: Re: have your cake and eat it, too

I think it is part of the process for some of us to have certain perviously forbidden foods that we overindulge in for a period of time. I know for me it was chocolate and ice cream. I think I had ice cream every single night for more than a year wether I was hungry or not. Eventually I got kind of tired of it and realized it didn't make me feel very good. It finally lost it's hold over me. My body finally realized that if I really wanted ice cream I could have it at any time I wanted. I played with it, sometimes having it for dinner or for breakfast. I also realized what emotional connection I had to ice cream. My Mom who was a WW freak would not allow us to have ice cream. If we had anything it was homemade plain yogurt or ice milk. But when I went to my Dad's on the weekends it was a ritual to go for a walk after dinner and then come home and make an ice cream sundae and watch TV. I equated ice cream to my Dad's love, subconsciously. Plus I made

it a habit to eat my ice cream in front of the TV. Eventually I didn't want to do this every single night. I still occassionaly have ice cream but it is now an occassional event. And to be honest, it just doesn't make me feel very good. So I eat it less and less. Also, incorporating more activities into my life such as Zumba classes and volunteering opportunties, I don't have the habit of eating my beloved foods in front of the TV.Alana> > >> > > Foggy, yes I am trying to date, and I just hate the process.> > Unfortunately, there's not another way to move from being single into being> > in a relationship. And it does cause me a lot of emotional turmoil. I know> > that cake represents celebration for me. I'm very careful to stop when I'm> > full though. I do need to find another way to love and nourish

my emotional> > self.> >> > Rain> > >> > > for Rain> > >> > >> > > Rain> > > I believe you posted that you were dating? me too, for 2 years now. A> > disappointing date is NOT an excuse to overeat. Neither is no date at all.> > > This is an urge to feed myself, to love myself, to nourish myself, when> > I'm feeling the lack of love. I need to find other ways to do this.> > >> > > Just another chance to grow into the

healthy adult I was born to be.> > > Happy Independence Day> > > Foggy> > >> >> >> >> > > >>