Re: Re: sexual intrusiveness// on the telephone, thirty years later

[Guest guest]

my nada decided point blank to ask me if I was having sex in my late twenties

and when I said I wasn't going to answer  and that her friends told her it was

inappropriate she felt she had the right to ask anyway.  I think it's like a

counselor told me, sex is as lcose as you can tget to anothe rhuman being and

that's what they want.

proflaf

Subject: Re: sexual intrusiveness// on the telephone, thirty

years later

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 2:48 PM

 

My nada likes doing my sexual inventory. Her latest thing, that I set a

limit to, was her focusing on how lucky I am not to have become a prostitute

when I was in my 20's. She is convinced it was " luck " .

My nada probably had relations with my father three times. To get pregnant for

me, and then for a miscarriage when I was four and then for my brother, who was

born the winter of my ninth year.

In my nada's book she is a good woman because she didn't have sex before

marriage. She was aghast when she learned I used tampons as a teenager. I guess

an intact hymen is proof of worthiness.

When a person says, " You make me feel mad.... " they are not taking

responsibility for their feelings. My nada won't say it out loud, but could she

be thinking, " Your behavior in your womanhood makes me feel ashamed of myself? "

Nada might be obsessed with my young adult sexuality because my having had sex

when she thought I was supposed to be a virgin, actually turns her

obsessive-compulsive:. On one hand her story " makes her feel bad about

herself " , but because she cannot admit that truth, since she can't allow herself

to look at it, much less take responsibility for it, she acts it out on me. The

part that keeps her hooked, like an addict, is that it makes her feel " better

than " me, and that somehow I have no moral ground to stand on.

I strongly feel that nada feels bad about herself all the time, and that to

avoid facing that she uses me as a take off point, just like a pooping pigeon,

when they land or take off..leaves THEIR crap behind on me. When I get mad at

nada for pooping on me, it confirms for her that (AKA, little Vicki,

problem child) I am to blame for her mess.

I get it now, the best thing I can do for myself is to speak my truth with love,

and realize that anger is not my friend. When I matter of factly tell her, " I

have that taken care of, mom. " Or tell her, when she tells me I am lucky I am

not a prostitute, I could utter a generality that is true for something else I

am thinking. " I think we are both lucky, mom. " (And I can be finishing my

sentence, in my head, with these words, " Yes, we're Lucky that this made up

story is about something thirty years too old. It is time we composted this

one! " )

When I set boundaries on what I will accept from her, I find ways to redirect

the conversation back to her emotions. And I no longer spare her my honesty. I

find kindness and honesty to be a real winning combination.

NOW, my only Catch-22 is this: I can't get out of hanging up the phone on

her. She can't seem to get past being angry at me for ending conversations

BEFORE damage is done and before I get mad (and leave her with me to blame for

my own anger!)

And, when it comes to sex, I find I have to exit the conversation pretty

quickly. I have no interest in talking about this topic with a nada. Wonder if

that is why she keeps bringing it up. So she can blame me when I bow out and

leave her free of " release " ?

[Guest guest]

my nada decided point blank to ask me if I was having sex in my late twenties

and when I said I wasn't going to answer  and that her friends told her it was

inappropriate she felt she had the right to ask anyway.  I think it's like a

counselor told me, sex is as lcose as you can tget to anothe rhuman being and

that's what they want.

proflaf

Subject: Re: sexual intrusiveness// on the telephone, thirty

years later

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 2:48 PM

 

My nada likes doing my sexual inventory. Her latest thing, that I set a

limit to, was her focusing on how lucky I am not to have become a prostitute

when I was in my 20's. She is convinced it was " luck " .

My nada probably had relations with my father three times. To get pregnant for

me, and then for a miscarriage when I was four and then for my brother, who was

born the winter of my ninth year.

In my nada's book she is a good woman because she didn't have sex before

marriage. She was aghast when she learned I used tampons as a teenager. I guess

an intact hymen is proof of worthiness.

When a person says, " You make me feel mad.... " they are not taking

responsibility for their feelings. My nada won't say it out loud, but could she

be thinking, " Your behavior in your womanhood makes me feel ashamed of myself? "

Nada might be obsessed with my young adult sexuality because my having had sex

when she thought I was supposed to be a virgin, actually turns her

obsessive-compulsive:. On one hand her story " makes her feel bad about

herself " , but because she cannot admit that truth, since she can't allow herself

to look at it, much less take responsibility for it, she acts it out on me. The

part that keeps her hooked, like an addict, is that it makes her feel " better

than " me, and that somehow I have no moral ground to stand on.

I strongly feel that nada feels bad about herself all the time, and that to

avoid facing that she uses me as a take off point, just like a pooping pigeon,

when they land or take off..leaves THEIR crap behind on me. When I get mad at

nada for pooping on me, it confirms for her that (AKA, little Vicki,

problem child) I am to blame for her mess.

I get it now, the best thing I can do for myself is to speak my truth with love,

and realize that anger is not my friend. When I matter of factly tell her, " I

have that taken care of, mom. " Or tell her, when she tells me I am lucky I am

not a prostitute, I could utter a generality that is true for something else I

am thinking. " I think we are both lucky, mom. " (And I can be finishing my

sentence, in my head, with these words, " Yes, we're Lucky that this made up

story is about something thirty years too old. It is time we composted this

one! " )

When I set boundaries on what I will accept from her, I find ways to redirect

the conversation back to her emotions. And I no longer spare her my honesty. I

find kindness and honesty to be a real winning combination.

NOW, my only Catch-22 is this: I can't get out of hanging up the phone on

her. She can't seem to get past being angry at me for ending conversations

BEFORE damage is done and before I get mad (and leave her with me to blame for

my own anger!)

And, when it comes to sex, I find I have to exit the conversation pretty

quickly. I have no interest in talking about this topic with a nada. Wonder if

that is why she keeps bringing it up. So she can blame me when I bow out and

leave her free of " release " ?

[Guest guest]

my nada decided point blank to ask me if I was having sex in my late twenties

and when I said I wasn't going to answer  and that her friends told her it was

inappropriate she felt she had the right to ask anyway.  I think it's like a

counselor told me, sex is as lcose as you can tget to anothe rhuman being and

that's what they want.

proflaf

Subject: Re: sexual intrusiveness// on the telephone, thirty

years later

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 2:48 PM

 

My nada likes doing my sexual inventory. Her latest thing, that I set a

limit to, was her focusing on how lucky I am not to have become a prostitute

when I was in my 20's. She is convinced it was " luck " .

My nada probably had relations with my father three times. To get pregnant for

me, and then for a miscarriage when I was four and then for my brother, who was

born the winter of my ninth year.

In my nada's book she is a good woman because she didn't have sex before

marriage. She was aghast when she learned I used tampons as a teenager. I guess

an intact hymen is proof of worthiness.

When a person says, " You make me feel mad.... " they are not taking

responsibility for their feelings. My nada won't say it out loud, but could she

be thinking, " Your behavior in your womanhood makes me feel ashamed of myself? "

Nada might be obsessed with my young adult sexuality because my having had sex

when she thought I was supposed to be a virgin, actually turns her

obsessive-compulsive:. On one hand her story " makes her feel bad about

herself " , but because she cannot admit that truth, since she can't allow herself

to look at it, much less take responsibility for it, she acts it out on me. The

part that keeps her hooked, like an addict, is that it makes her feel " better

than " me, and that somehow I have no moral ground to stand on.

I strongly feel that nada feels bad about herself all the time, and that to

avoid facing that she uses me as a take off point, just like a pooping pigeon,

when they land or take off..leaves THEIR crap behind on me. When I get mad at

nada for pooping on me, it confirms for her that (AKA, little Vicki,

problem child) I am to blame for her mess.

I get it now, the best thing I can do for myself is to speak my truth with love,

and realize that anger is not my friend. When I matter of factly tell her, " I

have that taken care of, mom. " Or tell her, when she tells me I am lucky I am

not a prostitute, I could utter a generality that is true for something else I

am thinking. " I think we are both lucky, mom. " (And I can be finishing my

sentence, in my head, with these words, " Yes, we're Lucky that this made up

story is about something thirty years too old. It is time we composted this

one! " )

When I set boundaries on what I will accept from her, I find ways to redirect

the conversation back to her emotions. And I no longer spare her my honesty. I

find kindness and honesty to be a real winning combination.

NOW, my only Catch-22 is this: I can't get out of hanging up the phone on

her. She can't seem to get past being angry at me for ending conversations

BEFORE damage is done and before I get mad (and leave her with me to blame for

my own anger!)

And, when it comes to sex, I find I have to exit the conversation pretty

quickly. I have no interest in talking about this topic with a nada. Wonder if

that is why she keeps bringing it up. So she can blame me when I bow out and

leave her free of " release " ?

[Guest guest]

Oh my, sexual intrusiveness by nada?

Mine was incredibly sexually intrusive.

When I was 11 or 12, and becoming interested in boys and sex, and writing

about them in my diary (pure fantasies ), she'd read my diary and then

scream at me about being dirty and nasty. She'd go through all my things

constantly to find anything sexually related. The time she usually picked to

scream and yell at me about my nastiness was when she gave me my bath. Yes,

she insisted on bathing me up till I was about 14. If I locked the bathroom

door, she'd either threaten me with dire consequences, or get my father to

break down the door. I was forced to be naked in front of her at her will,

and she would tell me how fat and ugly and disgusting I was. Yes, I was

overweight (when I wasn't anorexic) and physically awkward, and no, I didn't

have a pretty face - it was true that boys weren't interested in me all

through my teen years - but, wow, if I had a daughter who was considered by

society as being not conventionally attractive, I would build her up as best

as I could, and I would NEVER NEVER NEVER tell her that no one would ever

love her but me, her mother. I guess if a boy I liked had actually been

attracted to me, and I would have been dating like the other kids were, that

would have mitigated the awfulness my mother put me through.

When I was 19 and moved out of the house, she would call me daily (if I told

her not to call me every day, she'd go ballistic) and ask me about my sexual

life, of which I had none, and then tell me I had none because I was, of

course, ugly, disgusting and dirty and nobody but my mother would ever love

me or want to touch me. I believed her, and it was horrible, because no one

but my mother ever HAD touched me, and I would feel unbelievably disgusted

when she did.

When I actually started a sexual relationship, it drove her bananas in a

weird, icky way. Every time I saw her, she'd get this GLEAM in her eye and

she'd start asking me about my sexual practices. And she'd ask my partner

too, and even call him and ask him, which freaked him out big time. She'd

tell other people about what she'd read about when she used to read the

" sexy parts " of my early teenage diaries - and she'd tell them this in front

of me - and she'd say stuff to them (them being, for instance, her male

boss) like, " Rub her back - she LIKES that. " It was disgusting and freaky

and made me feel so sick inside.

This continued into my 40s, even though I went NC with her when I was 40.

She would somehow find out where I was living (I have NO idea how - this was

before widespread use of the Internet) and call my roommate or my

significant other and grill them about totally inappropriate things related

to me. Once she got my fiance on the phone and started asking him about our

sex life. I happened to be in the room at the time, and his face was turning

redder than red. He'd been raised as a Catholic, and also respected his

elders to a high degree, and believed sex lives were highly private. My

mother kept on and on at him, and he finally blurted out, " We're not having

sex! " My mother's response was, " Are you gay? " (he wasn't). At this point,

he realized the conversation was too toxic to continue, so he ended it.

Sexual intrusiveness - wow - I went through it, all right.

[Guest guest]

Oh my, sexual intrusiveness by nada?

Mine was incredibly sexually intrusive.

When I was 11 or 12, and becoming interested in boys and sex, and writing

about them in my diary (pure fantasies ), she'd read my diary and then

scream at me about being dirty and nasty. She'd go through all my things

constantly to find anything sexually related. The time she usually picked to

scream and yell at me about my nastiness was when she gave me my bath. Yes,

she insisted on bathing me up till I was about 14. If I locked the bathroom

door, she'd either threaten me with dire consequences, or get my father to

break down the door. I was forced to be naked in front of her at her will,

and she would tell me how fat and ugly and disgusting I was. Yes, I was

overweight (when I wasn't anorexic) and physically awkward, and no, I didn't

have a pretty face - it was true that boys weren't interested in me all

through my teen years - but, wow, if I had a daughter who was considered by

society as being not conventionally attractive, I would build her up as best

as I could, and I would NEVER NEVER NEVER tell her that no one would ever

love her but me, her mother. I guess if a boy I liked had actually been

attracted to me, and I would have been dating like the other kids were, that

would have mitigated the awfulness my mother put me through.

When I was 19 and moved out of the house, she would call me daily (if I told

her not to call me every day, she'd go ballistic) and ask me about my sexual

life, of which I had none, and then tell me I had none because I was, of

course, ugly, disgusting and dirty and nobody but my mother would ever love

me or want to touch me. I believed her, and it was horrible, because no one

but my mother ever HAD touched me, and I would feel unbelievably disgusted

when she did.

When I actually started a sexual relationship, it drove her bananas in a

weird, icky way. Every time I saw her, she'd get this GLEAM in her eye and

she'd start asking me about my sexual practices. And she'd ask my partner

too, and even call him and ask him, which freaked him out big time. She'd

tell other people about what she'd read about when she used to read the

" sexy parts " of my early teenage diaries - and she'd tell them this in front

of me - and she'd say stuff to them (them being, for instance, her male

boss) like, " Rub her back - she LIKES that. " It was disgusting and freaky

and made me feel so sick inside.

This continued into my 40s, even though I went NC with her when I was 40.

She would somehow find out where I was living (I have NO idea how - this was

before widespread use of the Internet) and call my roommate or my

significant other and grill them about totally inappropriate things related

to me. Once she got my fiance on the phone and started asking him about our

sex life. I happened to be in the room at the time, and his face was turning

redder than red. He'd been raised as a Catholic, and also respected his

elders to a high degree, and believed sex lives were highly private. My

mother kept on and on at him, and he finally blurted out, " We're not having

sex! " My mother's response was, " Are you gay? " (he wasn't). At this point,

he realized the conversation was too toxic to continue, so he ended it.

Sexual intrusiveness - wow - I went through it, all right.