Re: Face-To-Face

[Guest guest]

" Yet I feel that I have to be the bigger person and

love her unconditionally and overlook it. So I keep hanging on. "

This is SO me, tsquared! I struggle with this constantly. But I have found that

when I'm " being the bigger person " and ignoring her behaviors, she just ups the

ante and becomes more and more and more obnoxious until she says something so

hurtful that it can't be ignored.

I've realized that it's become a no-win situation.

I try to have as limited amounts of contact with my mother as possible. I can

hardly even stand the sound of her voice over the phone or on my answering

machine. I just haven't figured out anything else that works.

[Guest guest]

" Yet I feel that I have to be the bigger person and

love her unconditionally and overlook it. So I keep hanging on. "

This is SO me, tsquared! I struggle with this constantly. But I have found that

when I'm " being the bigger person " and ignoring her behaviors, she just ups the

ante and becomes more and more and more obnoxious until she says something so

hurtful that it can't be ignored.

I've realized that it's become a no-win situation.

I try to have as limited amounts of contact with my mother as possible. I can

hardly even stand the sound of her voice over the phone or on my answering

machine. I just haven't figured out anything else that works.

[Guest guest]

My advice for dealing with a nada face-to-face is similar to my

advice for dealing with one on the phone. Following it just

takes a bit more planning and determination. Either way, what I

do is give my nada one chance to stop saying whatever obnoxious

thing she's saying. If she doesn't stop, I remove myself from

earshot. I say something like " We're not going to have that

discussion " or " I'm not going to listen to you talk about that " .

To do that in person, you need to make sure that you don't get

yourself trapped in situations where you can't reasonably leave.

You also have to stand fast and not let her destroy your

determination or push you into reacting in other ways. Just stay

calm and state that you aren't going to be a participant or

target. Then leave if necessary. It may take some practice

before you get good at staying calm enough to leave, but each

time you do it it will hopefully get easier.

I see lots of FOG in what you say. Fear, Obligation & Guilt are

some of the most common tools used by nadas to try to keep us

entrapped in their lives. They're usually very good at imposing

those feelings on us while we're growing up. That doesn't mean

we should continue to feel them though. Sometimes it helps to

imagine that it is other people who are in the same scenario in

order to try to distance yourself from the situation and get a

clearer picture of things.

You said " Yet I feel that I have to be the bigger person and

love her unconditionally and overlook it. " My response is to

ask why do you feel that way? Why do you have to allow yourself

to be abused and does that really make you the bigger person?

For that matter, why do you have to love her unconditionally?

Personally, I have a big problem with the whole idea of

unconditional love. I don't see any reason for anyone to feel

they have to love someone who abuses them. If you do you do, but

if you don't, I don't think there's anything wrong with you. If

she was anyone other than your mother would you feel you had to

allow her to do what she does to you? For most people, the

answer to that is " no " . So why does being your mother get her a

free pass to abuse you? Most likely, you feel that way because

she taught you to feel that way.

There's no good reason to feel guilty about putting her

belongings in storage and otherwise dealing with the results of

her eviction. You did your best to take care of her when she

refused to bother to take care of herself. You say you know how

you'd feel if someone had done these things to you, but would

you ever put someone else in the position of being forced to do

these things? You had to act because she wouldn't do anything

herself and was going to end up homeless. That's not doing

things TO her. That's doing a lot FOR her. She could have chosen

to deal with the situation herself but she chose not to do so.

What reason is there to feel guilty? Do you think you could have

magically made her problems go away? If you're like many KOs,

you were brainwashed into thinking that you're supposed to fix

all her problems for her. That's not how normal family

relationships work. In a normal family, there's no guilt thrust

on people for failing to do what isn't possible, especially when

it isn't even their responsibility to start with.

More cards and less visiting sounds like a good compromise to

me. I don't see much point to actually saying that you're

eliminating contact with a nada. What would it accomplish? You'd

just have to listen to her rage about it. The times when I've

stopped speaking to my nada, I've never told her that's what I

was doing. I just failed to talk to her any more than absolutely

necessary for months. I'm not sure she even noticed that I

wasn't speaking to her.

At 12:23 PM 11/17/2010 finallytsquared wrote:

>Any advice on how to deal with a BP mother face-to-face?

>

>It appears to be less challenging with dealing with them on the

>phone as the only thing you have is your voice and you have the

>option to hang up.

>

>But when you're there in front of them, it is a whole new ball

>of wax. My mother reads me like a book and I cannot fool here

>about my feelings. She knows exactly how and when to push my

>buttons and the more I try to fight it, the worse it gets. I

>find it extremely difficult not to react to her reactions in

>person. So far I have not found out a way to do it.

>

>Any suggestions other than to limit or eliminate contact? I

>have tried to maintain a relationship with her but no longer

>want to because every time I see her, I always leave

>upset. Yet I feel that I have to be the bigger person and love

>her unconditionally and overlook it. So I keep hanging on.

>

>It is hard for me to go visit her in the nursing home because I

>feel guilty. I put most of her " personal " belongings in a

>storage unit and gave her " living " belongings (fridge, stove,

>washer/dryer, cooking utensils etc) away to a charity. I found

>another home for her dog because she couldn't take care of the

>dog in the nursing home; to be honest, I was the one who took

>care of the dog but she lived with my mom (again not realizing

>what I was in the middle of). I feel guilty because I know how

>I would feel if someone did this to me. It was not " my " things

>to do this to. But I did not have a choice because she was

>going to be evicted in a few days so something had to be

>done. She knew about this eviction for a month and I found out

>by accident.

>

>I am glad that I put her in the nursing home because she is

>getting the care that she needs. She was not taking care of

>herself and was literally wasting a way. She went into the

>nursing home October 1, 2010.

>

>The holidays are approaching and at this point in time, I have

>no plans on visiting her until after the first of the

>year....if I decide to continue to visit her. I will send her

>cards; maybe even right to her. I might try to call her, but

>that is still up in the air. The litle girl inside me still

>wants to be with her mommy during the holidays while the adult

>needs to protect the little girl from being hurt.

>

>I am sick that this is the way things are. I wish it could be

>different. But it appears that there isn't much I can do about

>it. It is what it is.

>

>When you decide that you are going to limit or eliminate

>contact, do you tell the BP or just do it? My thought is to

>just do what I need to do and no looking back.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

when i hear other women saying their moms are their best friends, i just wanna

cry.

i really missed out on that. such a profound void in my life.

amy

anyone experience that?

Re: Face-To-Face

" Yet I feel that I have to be the bigger person and

love her unconditionally and overlook it. So I keep hanging on. "

This is SO me, tsquared! I struggle with this constantly. But I have found that

when I'm " being the bigger person " and ignoring her behaviors, she just ups the

ante and becomes more and more and more obnoxious until she says something so

hurtful that it can't be ignored.

I've realized that it's become a no-win situation.

I try to have as limited amounts of contact with my mother as possible. I can

hardly even stand the sound of her voice over the phone or on my answering

machine. I just haven't figured out anything else that works.

[Guest guest]

Your comment about " having to be the adult " and " overlooking " their behaviour is

what I used to do for YEARS and YEARS. My older sister and I used to do it with

our mother and other two mentally ill sisters.

Eventually, I realised that THEY KNEW this was what we were doing, and it, in

fact, made them worse. See, they know that they can treat you like dirt, and by

" being the adult and doing the right thing " you are in effect not giving them

strong consequences for their actions. My mother and sisters lost contact with

anyone they ever treated like dirt - excpet for us. They knew that we were too

nice to tell them to GET OUT AND NEVER COME BACK, so they knew they could go to

town on us and it wouldnt matter.

Eventually she went too far and I finally realised that I had to put a stop to

it. I cut down the contact, and I stopped allowing them to treat me like shit. I

did not call them. As far as Im concerned they need to be the one to apologise

and be responsible - NOT ME. My sister is still going out of her way to keep

them in her life and " be the adult " , and now that Im a step back I can see how

it is killing her independance, her self-esteem, and her happiness.

>

> Any advice on how to deal with a BP mother face-to-face?

>

> It appears to be less challenging with dealing with them on the phone as the

only thing you have is your voice and you have the option to hang up.

>

> But when you're there in front of them, it is a whole new ball of wax. My

mother reads me like a book and I cannot fool here about my feelings. She knows

exactly how and when to push my buttons and the more I try to fight it, the

worse it gets. I find it extremely difficult not to react to her reactions in

person. So far I have not found out a way to do it.

>

> Any suggestions other than to limit or eliminate contact? I have tried to

maintain a relationship with her but no longer want to because every time I see

her, I always leave upset. Yet I feel that I have to be the bigger person and

love her unconditionally and overlook it. So I keep hanging on.

>

> It is hard for me to go visit her in the nursing home because I feel guilty.

I put most of her " personal " belongings in a storage unit and gave her " living "

belongings (fridge, stove, washer/dryer, cooking utensils etc) away to a

charity. I found another home for her dog because she couldn't take care of the

dog in the nursing home; to be honest, I was the one who took care of the dog

but she lived with my mom (again not realizing what I was in the middle of). I

feel guilty because I know how I would feel if someone did this to me. It was

not " my " things to do this to. But I did not have a choice because she was

going to be evicted in a few days so something had to be done. She knew about

this eviction for a month and I found out by accident.

>

> I am glad that I put her in the nursing home because she is getting the care

that she needs. She was not taking care of herself and was literally wasting a

way. She went into the nursing home October 1, 2010.

>

> The holidays are approaching and at this point in time, I have no plans on

visiting her until after the first of the year....if I decide to continue to

visit her. I will send her cards; maybe even right to her. I might try to call

her, but that is still up in the air. The litle girl inside me still wants to

be with her mommy during the holidays while the adult needs to protect the

little girl from being hurt.

>

> I am sick that this is the way things are. I wish it could be different. But

it appears that there isn't much I can do about it. It is what it is.

>

> When you decide that you are going to limit or eliminate contact, do you tell

the BP or just do it? My thought is to just do what I need to do and no looking

back.

>

[Guest guest]

This whole story speaks to me as well. thanks for sharing as it makes me feel a

little stronger as we approach the holidays. I'm tired of being physically and

emotionally exhausted after my visits too. And I see my nada heading toward a

nursing home soon as well (at 56!). She spent a long time in a nursing home

after her health crises (almost a year) and it was tough. I didn't think she'd

ever live " independently " (what a laugh) again. I love the advice in this

scenario! I just don't know if I have the guts to do it. 30 years of FOG...

Good luck to you this holiday season!

> >Any advice on how to deal with a BP mother face-to-face?

> >

> >It appears to be less challenging with dealing with them on the

> >phone as the only thing you have is your voice and you have the

> >option to hang up.

> >

> >But when you're there in front of them, it is a whole new ball

> >of wax. My mother reads me like a book and I cannot fool here

> >about my feelings. She knows exactly how and when to push my

> >buttons and the more I try to fight it, the worse it gets. I

> >find it extremely difficult not to react to her reactions in

> >person. So far I have not found out a way to do it.

> >

> >Any suggestions other than to limit or eliminate contact? I

> >have tried to maintain a relationship with her but no longer

> >want to because every time I see her, I always leave

> >upset. Yet I feel that I have to be the bigger person and love

> >her unconditionally and overlook it. So I keep hanging on.

> >

> >It is hard for me to go visit her in the nursing home because I

> >feel guilty. I put most of her " personal " belongings in a

> >storage unit and gave her " living " belongings (fridge, stove,

> >washer/dryer, cooking utensils etc) away to a charity. I found

> >another home for her dog because she couldn't take care of the

> >dog in the nursing home; to be honest, I was the one who took

> >care of the dog but she lived with my mom (again not realizing

> >what I was in the middle of). I feel guilty because I know how

> >I would feel if someone did this to me. It was not " my " things

> >to do this to. But I did not have a choice because she was

> >going to be evicted in a few days so something had to be

> >done. She knew about this eviction for a month and I found out

> >by accident.

> >

> >I am glad that I put her in the nursing home because she is

> >getting the care that she needs. She was not taking care of

> >herself and was literally wasting a way. She went into the

> >nursing home October 1, 2010.

> >

> >The holidays are approaching and at this point in time, I have

> >no plans on visiting her until after the first of the

> >year....if I decide to continue to visit her. I will send her

> >cards; maybe even right to her. I might try to call her, but

> >that is still up in the air. The litle girl inside me still

> >wants to be with her mommy during the holidays while the adult

> >needs to protect the little girl from being hurt.

> >

> >I am sick that this is the way things are. I wish it could be

> >different. But it appears that there isn't much I can do about

> >it. It is what it is.

> >

> >When you decide that you are going to limit or eliminate

> >contact, do you tell the BP or just do it? My thought is to

> >just do what I need to do and no looking back.

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

When I hear other women saying that about their mothers, or

saying it about their daughters, my first reaction is to think

there's something a little sick about their closeness. How awful

is that?

At 06:26 PM 11/17/2010 barrycove@... wrote:

>when i hear other women saying their moms are their best

>friends, i just wanna cry.

>i really missed out on that. such a profound void in my life.

>amy

>anyone experience that?

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Me too! My nada is always whining how she wishes we were " best friends " and

hates I don't include her in every little thing I do. So when I hear of someone

who is best friends with their mother/daughter, I think it's kind of messed up.

Aren't children supposed to LEAVE the nest?

I don't wish to have a mother as a best friend, but rather as a mother. When I

hear some of the sweet things other mothers do for their kids, that makes me

cry. Even my boyfriend's mother sending me cards does that. I'm so shocked she

is thinking of me, when my own nada isn't.

Casey

> >when i hear other women saying their moms are their best

> >friends, i just wanna cry.

> >i really missed out on that. such a profound void in my life.

> >amy

> >anyone experience that?

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

I think that most children want to have a close bond with their parents. We

just want to be loved with no strings attached. There is nothing wrong with

that.

> >when i hear other women saying their moms are their best

> >friends, i just wanna cry.

> >i really missed out on that. such a profound void in my life.

> >amy

> >anyone experience that?

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Is there anything wrong with you be excited at the prospect of having a nice

day? Of not being stressed to the hilt? Of not having to deal with a histronic,

nasty nutbar?

Sorry hun, you are garden variety normal.

Now if you said you were upset that you didnt get to spend the day in misery and

stress - then youd be nuts!

>

> I'm so thrilled today because mom cancelled on Chuck E. Cheese. I am almost

euphoric with the idea that I don't have to see her today! This is weird. I

have been so nervous about seeing her face-to-face after the last

boundary-setting phone call. She was pretty ticked.

>

> Funny thing is, she cancelled because (her words on phone message): " I think I

might be getting sick; I mean I AM getting sick, fake-sounding 'cough' 'cough'. "

>

> She was supposed to take a church friend to an appointment and didn't want to

do it. Lucky for me, it was on our Chuck E. Cheese day! She conveniently gets

" sick " when it rolls around to her turn to return favors.

>

> What is wrong with me that I am so excited to NOT be seeing my mother???!!!

How am I going to keep doing this? My fervent wish is that I make her mad

enough that she goes NC again. (That year was heaven. Why, oh why, did I leave

presents on the doorstep and initiate contact? Because that's what mommy's good

little girl does, right?)

>

> p.s. I used to worry that my mom would somehow find this forum, read my posts

and " get me " for what I'm writing about her. Then I realized that with her BPD,

she wouldn't recognize herself in these posts anyway - because nothing she does

can ever be wrong! ha ha

>

[Guest guest]

Is there anything wrong with you be excited at the prospect of having a nice

day? Of not being stressed to the hilt? Of not having to deal with a histronic,

nasty nutbar?

Sorry hun, you are garden variety normal.

Now if you said you were upset that you didnt get to spend the day in misery and

stress - then youd be nuts!

>

> I'm so thrilled today because mom cancelled on Chuck E. Cheese. I am almost

euphoric with the idea that I don't have to see her today! This is weird. I

have been so nervous about seeing her face-to-face after the last

boundary-setting phone call. She was pretty ticked.

>

> Funny thing is, she cancelled because (her words on phone message): " I think I

might be getting sick; I mean I AM getting sick, fake-sounding 'cough' 'cough'. "

>

> She was supposed to take a church friend to an appointment and didn't want to

do it. Lucky for me, it was on our Chuck E. Cheese day! She conveniently gets

" sick " when it rolls around to her turn to return favors.

>

> What is wrong with me that I am so excited to NOT be seeing my mother???!!!

How am I going to keep doing this? My fervent wish is that I make her mad

enough that she goes NC again. (That year was heaven. Why, oh why, did I leave

presents on the doorstep and initiate contact? Because that's what mommy's good

little girl does, right?)

>

> p.s. I used to worry that my mom would somehow find this forum, read my posts

and " get me " for what I'm writing about her. Then I realized that with her BPD,

she wouldn't recognize herself in these posts anyway - because nothing she does

can ever be wrong! ha ha

>

[Guest guest]

Is there anything wrong with you be excited at the prospect of having a nice

day? Of not being stressed to the hilt? Of not having to deal with a histronic,

nasty nutbar?

Sorry hun, you are garden variety normal.

Now if you said you were upset that you didnt get to spend the day in misery and

stress - then youd be nuts!

>

> I'm so thrilled today because mom cancelled on Chuck E. Cheese. I am almost

euphoric with the idea that I don't have to see her today! This is weird. I

have been so nervous about seeing her face-to-face after the last

boundary-setting phone call. She was pretty ticked.

>

> Funny thing is, she cancelled because (her words on phone message): " I think I

might be getting sick; I mean I AM getting sick, fake-sounding 'cough' 'cough'. "

>

> She was supposed to take a church friend to an appointment and didn't want to

do it. Lucky for me, it was on our Chuck E. Cheese day! She conveniently gets

" sick " when it rolls around to her turn to return favors.

>

> What is wrong with me that I am so excited to NOT be seeing my mother???!!!

How am I going to keep doing this? My fervent wish is that I make her mad

enough that she goes NC again. (That year was heaven. Why, oh why, did I leave

presents on the doorstep and initiate contact? Because that's what mommy's good

little girl does, right?)

>

> p.s. I used to worry that my mom would somehow find this forum, read my posts

and " get me " for what I'm writing about her. Then I realized that with her BPD,

she wouldn't recognize herself in these posts anyway - because nothing she does

can ever be wrong! ha ha

>