Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 wrote: > I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of > what triggered the onset of their symptoms. Looking back, mine started when I had spinal anesthesia for a C-section 17 years ago. I had a spinal headache for 7 days and muscle spasms so bad in my arms I couldn't hold my baby. After that, a doctor dx me with chronic mono. Then I developed the dizziness and headaches till last year I added most of the other symptoms! Cheri surgery 3-18-02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 wrote: > I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of > what triggered the onset of their symptoms. Looking back, mine started when I had spinal anesthesia for a C-section 17 years ago. I had a spinal headache for 7 days and muscle spasms so bad in my arms I couldn't hold my baby. After that, a doctor dx me with chronic mono. Then I developed the dizziness and headaches till last year I added most of the other symptoms! Cheri surgery 3-18-02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 wrote: > I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of > what triggered the onset of their symptoms. Looking back, mine started when I had spinal anesthesia for a C-section 17 years ago. I had a spinal headache for 7 days and muscle spasms so bad in my arms I couldn't hold my baby. After that, a doctor dx me with chronic mono. Then I developed the dizziness and headaches till last year I added most of the other symptoms! Cheri surgery 3-18-02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 > I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of > what triggered the onset of their symptoms. According to Dr. Milhorats " Chiari Redefined " paper: " Although the majority of patients described a spontaneous onset of symptoms, 89(24%) cited trauma as the precipitating event. " Chip www.wacma.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 I can never rememmber at time when I wasn't in some sort of pain even as a teenager which is as far back as I can remember.I can remember being in so much pain that I was throwing up and the doctor telling mum that I had migraine, When I was 35 and my family moved because of hubby's job the hospital here did a MRI and found chiari and so I then had a decompression done. It was great for 9 years but now I am back to where I was before. I am going into hospital for 2 weeks for work ups and more MRIs on April 15 so we will see what is said. warm regards Ann in Brisbane Australia Hanson wrote: > I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of > what triggered the onset of their symptoms. For > example, did your problems begin after a car accident. > Or do most of you have no idea what brought this on. > > I have been in a few fender benders over the years, > but none in relation to the time that my symptoms > began. > > I started having weird problems after the birth of my > 3rd child who is now 3 years old (epidurals for all > 3), but not 'typical' chiari symptoms. > > I've always ridden thrill rides at amusement parks. I > had intense, short headaches after rides when visiting > Kings Dominion last fall. > > My diagnosis came in Jan 2002 after a year of severe > pain on my left side, rib area; difficulty swallowing > pills and many adverse reactions to drugs. More > typical chiari symptoms began in late Dec and have > been progressing. > > Is it pointless for me to try to figure out what > triggered this for me? I guess I obsess about this > for fear that my children may end up with this. I > want to protect them, but want them to have regular > kid experiences. > > Thanks for listening and your replies:) > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 I can never rememmber at time when I wasn't in some sort of pain even as a teenager which is as far back as I can remember.I can remember being in so much pain that I was throwing up and the doctor telling mum that I had migraine, When I was 35 and my family moved because of hubby's job the hospital here did a MRI and found chiari and so I then had a decompression done. It was great for 9 years but now I am back to where I was before. I am going into hospital for 2 weeks for work ups and more MRIs on April 15 so we will see what is said. warm regards Ann in Brisbane Australia Hanson wrote: > I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of > what triggered the onset of their symptoms. For > example, did your problems begin after a car accident. > Or do most of you have no idea what brought this on. > > I have been in a few fender benders over the years, > but none in relation to the time that my symptoms > began. > > I started having weird problems after the birth of my > 3rd child who is now 3 years old (epidurals for all > 3), but not 'typical' chiari symptoms. > > I've always ridden thrill rides at amusement parks. I > had intense, short headaches after rides when visiting > Kings Dominion last fall. > > My diagnosis came in Jan 2002 after a year of severe > pain on my left side, rib area; difficulty swallowing > pills and many adverse reactions to drugs. More > typical chiari symptoms began in late Dec and have > been progressing. > > Is it pointless for me to try to figure out what > triggered this for me? I guess I obsess about this > for fear that my children may end up with this. I > want to protect them, but want them to have regular > kid experiences. > > Thanks for listening and your replies:) > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 I can never rememmber at time when I wasn't in some sort of pain even as a teenager which is as far back as I can remember.I can remember being in so much pain that I was throwing up and the doctor telling mum that I had migraine, When I was 35 and my family moved because of hubby's job the hospital here did a MRI and found chiari and so I then had a decompression done. It was great for 9 years but now I am back to where I was before. I am going into hospital for 2 weeks for work ups and more MRIs on April 15 so we will see what is said. warm regards Ann in Brisbane Australia Hanson wrote: > I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of > what triggered the onset of their symptoms. For > example, did your problems begin after a car accident. > Or do most of you have no idea what brought this on. > > I have been in a few fender benders over the years, > but none in relation to the time that my symptoms > began. > > I started having weird problems after the birth of my > 3rd child who is now 3 years old (epidurals for all > 3), but not 'typical' chiari symptoms. > > I've always ridden thrill rides at amusement parks. I > had intense, short headaches after rides when visiting > Kings Dominion last fall. > > My diagnosis came in Jan 2002 after a year of severe > pain on my left side, rib area; difficulty swallowing > pills and many adverse reactions to drugs. More > typical chiari symptoms began in late Dec and have > been progressing. > > Is it pointless for me to try to figure out what > triggered this for me? I guess I obsess about this > for fear that my children may end up with this. I > want to protect them, but want them to have regular > kid experiences. > > Thanks for listening and your replies:) > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 For me there is little doubt in my mind that repeated " adjustments " by a physical therapist to my neck were what triggered my Chiari. The onset of Chiari symptoms started shortly after he started doing these adjustments. I guess that would be classified as trauma? God bless, ACM 5mm w/syrinx Re: triggers > I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of > what triggered the onset of their symptoms. According to Dr. Milhorats " Chiari Redefined " paper: " Although the majority of patients described a spontaneous onset of symptoms, 89(24%) cited trauma as the precipitating event. " Chip www.wacma.com Help section: http://www.yahoogroups.com/help/ NOTE: NCC refers to posts with No Chiari Content To Unsubscribe Yourself: chiari-unsubscribe WACMA Home: Http://www.wacma.com WACMA Online Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiari/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 For me, I became pregnant for my 2nd child in March of 1999. During that first trimester, i got a cold. actually, the worst coughing i can ever recall. After the worst of the coughing, I can remember waking up with what i thought was a stiff neck after basically choking from coughing so bad. That stiff neck didn't get better, and was more pain then stiffness, and then a bunch of other symptoms came. the worst symptom other than the pain, was dizziness with eye movements and since i was pregnant, of course, i couldn't even hold down ice. I was in the ER a bunch and admitted twice. Never did I get any help for my symptoms.Well, and still don't. It was a nightmare. I was diagnosed May of 2001 when an ENT sent me for the MRI. I don't know if I was indeed born with it or if I strained too hard coughing that night?? Maybe I will never know. I hesitated in the beginning telling Dr's that i was sick coughing and woke up like that because I thought for sure, they'd sum it up as " my ear " . (the dizziness then was my bigest complaint) I knew inside myself that it was definately not my ear. i could pinpoint the pain exactly at first. I even told my doc he might think I am crazy, but it felt like it was in or of my brainstem. he laughed and refered me to a psych. almost 2 years later I was able to go back and say " i guess it was all in my head " . When i think about it, i was probably born with it, and the coughing and pregnancy was my trigger. I remember having that sooo dreaded spinal headache, for a couple weeks after two seperate spinal taps(that I had for a headache). my teen yrs is when I became chronically fatigued. Hugs to you all-stacy in Ohio " borderline " ACM approx. 4-6mm. no surgery yet, no meds(ouch) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:50:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: triggers I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of what triggered the onset of their symptoms. For example, did your problems begin after a car accident. Or do most of you have no idea what brought this on. I have been in a few fender benders over the years, but none in relation to the time that my symptoms began. I started having weird problems after the birth of my 3rd child who is now 3 years old (epidurals for all 3), but not 'typical' chiari symptoms. I've always ridden thrill rides at amusement parks. I had intense, short headaches after rides when visiting Kings Dominion last fall. My diagnosis came in Jan 2002 after a year of severe pain on my left side, rib area; difficulty swallowing pills and many adverse reactions to drugs. More typical chiari symptoms began in late Dec and have been progressing. Is it pointless for me to try to figure out what triggered this for me? I guess I obsess about this for fear that my children may end up with this. I want to protect them, but want them to have regular kid experiences. Thanks for listening and your replies:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Share Posted March 27, 2002 For me, I became pregnant for my 2nd child in March of 1999. During that first trimester, i got a cold. actually, the worst coughing i can ever recall. After the worst of the coughing, I can remember waking up with what i thought was a stiff neck after basically choking from coughing so bad. That stiff neck didn't get better, and was more pain then stiffness, and then a bunch of other symptoms came. the worst symptom other than the pain, was dizziness with eye movements and since i was pregnant, of course, i couldn't even hold down ice. I was in the ER a bunch and admitted twice. Never did I get any help for my symptoms.Well, and still don't. It was a nightmare. I was diagnosed May of 2001 when an ENT sent me for the MRI. I don't know if I was indeed born with it or if I strained too hard coughing that night?? Maybe I will never know. I hesitated in the beginning telling Dr's that i was sick coughing and woke up like that because I thought for sure, they'd sum it up as " my ear " . (the dizziness then was my bigest complaint) I knew inside myself that it was definately not my ear. i could pinpoint the pain exactly at first. I even told my doc he might think I am crazy, but it felt like it was in or of my brainstem. he laughed and refered me to a psych. almost 2 years later I was able to go back and say " i guess it was all in my head " . When i think about it, i was probably born with it, and the coughing and pregnancy was my trigger. I remember having that sooo dreaded spinal headache, for a couple weeks after two seperate spinal taps(that I had for a headache). my teen yrs is when I became chronically fatigued. Hugs to you all-stacy in Ohio " borderline " ACM approx. 4-6mm. no surgery yet, no meds(ouch) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:50:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: triggers I was wondering if most people have a clear idea of what triggered the onset of their symptoms. For example, did your problems begin after a car accident. Or do most of you have no idea what brought this on. I have been in a few fender benders over the years, but none in relation to the time that my symptoms began. I started having weird problems after the birth of my 3rd child who is now 3 years old (epidurals for all 3), but not 'typical' chiari symptoms. I've always ridden thrill rides at amusement parks. I had intense, short headaches after rides when visiting Kings Dominion last fall. My diagnosis came in Jan 2002 after a year of severe pain on my left side, rib area; difficulty swallowing pills and many adverse reactions to drugs. More typical chiari symptoms began in late Dec and have been progressing. Is it pointless for me to try to figure out what triggered this for me? I guess I obsess about this for fear that my children may end up with this. I want to protect them, but want them to have regular kid experiences. Thanks for listening and your replies:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Reynolds wrote: For me there is little doubt in my mind that repeated " adjustments " by a physical therapist to my neck were what triggered my Chiari. The onset of Chiari symptoms started shortly after he started doing these adjustments. I guess that would be classified as trauma? God bless, ACM 5mm w/syrinx Hi! I would have to agree with on this.For several months I was misdiagnosed as a neck sprain.The physical therapists were " no pain no gain " .My poor neck was cracked,stretched pulled and pushed for 12 weeks. When I finally got a Chiari dx no one wanted to touch me.The chiari/syrinx dx was made by my private physician.Thank God I left the wormen's comp doctors.I am lucky they didn't kill me! Gentle hugs, Lee " Make yourself a blessing to someone.Your kind smile or pat on the back might pull someone back from the edge. " Carmellia Elliot http://www.restministries.org chronicpaindevotionals --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Reynolds wrote: For me there is little doubt in my mind that repeated " adjustments " by a physical therapist to my neck were what triggered my Chiari. The onset of Chiari symptoms started shortly after he started doing these adjustments. I guess that would be classified as trauma? God bless, ACM 5mm w/syrinx Hi! I would have to agree with on this.For several months I was misdiagnosed as a neck sprain.The physical therapists were " no pain no gain " .My poor neck was cracked,stretched pulled and pushed for 12 weeks. When I finally got a Chiari dx no one wanted to touch me.The chiari/syrinx dx was made by my private physician.Thank God I left the wormen's comp doctors.I am lucky they didn't kill me! Gentle hugs, Lee " Make yourself a blessing to someone.Your kind smile or pat on the back might pull someone back from the edge. " Carmellia Elliot http://www.restministries.org chronicpaindevotionals --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Reynolds wrote: For me there is little doubt in my mind that repeated " adjustments " by a physical therapist to my neck were what triggered my Chiari. The onset of Chiari symptoms started shortly after he started doing these adjustments. I guess that would be classified as trauma? God bless, ACM 5mm w/syrinx Hi! I would have to agree with on this.For several months I was misdiagnosed as a neck sprain.The physical therapists were " no pain no gain " .My poor neck was cracked,stretched pulled and pushed for 12 weeks. When I finally got a Chiari dx no one wanted to touch me.The chiari/syrinx dx was made by my private physician.Thank God I left the wormen's comp doctors.I am lucky they didn't kill me! Gentle hugs, Lee " Make yourself a blessing to someone.Your kind smile or pat on the back might pull someone back from the edge. " Carmellia Elliot http://www.restministries.org chronicpaindevotionals --------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 That seems like such a personal decision to me, RE deciding to remain and argue a point, or just leave a discussion that is becoming upsetting to you. When I'm in a similar situation and the other person or persons appear to be very emotionally attached to their point of view and are becoming upset, or if I notice that I'm becoming upset, I say something like, " I guess you and I will have to just agree to disagree about this, as our viewpoints are so different " and I remove myself from the discussion. Its one thing to have a debate about a topic and keep it in a theoretical or purely rational level, but when the emotions get involved and the debaters on either or both sides become defensive about their viewpoint, or begin to attack the other's viewpoint on an emotional or personal level, then, its no longer just a debate or a rational discussion and it devolves into a " fight. " I don't like to fight with people, so, I usually choose to walk away when it starts getting too passionate. On the other hand if I was feeling up to a vigorous and impassioned debate, I might say to my fellow debater that I'd be interested to know if their viewpoint changes if, for example, a doctor were to decide to amputate the debater's leg instead of saving it because the operation to save the leg would make the doctor miss dinner with his family. " So you wouldn't mind losing your leg so the doctor could have dinner with his family? That's so awfully generous of you. " -Annie > > Hello, > > Where do you draw the line? > > Here is the scenario. (Background) Nada was a hypocondriac who projected > imaginary illnesses onto us kids. I have had numerous horrific experiences > with doctors throughout my life doing thing to be against my wishes. During > the birth of my first daughter I was subjected to a doctor who did what she > wanted without asking and then threatened me if I tried to question her. > > On campus a discussion of current issues in society turned to the way > medical care is handled currently. Several of the participants come from > countries with far worse medical care. They were chiming in that our level > of care is excellent. I proposed that it could be better if doctors were > not so rushed and medicine was practiced based on need and not convenience. > I gave the example of cases of unnecessary C-sections performed because the > doctor wants to be home in time for dinner ect. > > The response I received is that doctors are people too and deserve a good > dinner with their family. Even if that means performing major abdominal > surgery on a non-consenting woman that she does not need. > > Having been forced into numerous unnecessary and painful procedures during > my life I know the emotional damage this does to a person. I had a very > hard time keeping my thoughts and words non-personal. I felt very hurt that > people would find this acceptable. I really enjoy being with this group and > discussing the various topics. I can't decide if I am being over-sensitive > or not. Also, I don't know how to handle it if this comes up again. Do I > politely leave the discussion? Argue the point from a personal standpoint? > I also was the only one with an opposing view which made it hard because > others would over-talk me. Not intentionally but the discussions get > everyone riled up and excited to speak. > > -- > > > " I have a grip on reality, just not this particular one. " -- Author Unknown* > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 That seems like such a personal decision to me, RE deciding to remain and argue a point, or just leave a discussion that is becoming upsetting to you. When I'm in a similar situation and the other person or persons appear to be very emotionally attached to their point of view and are becoming upset, or if I notice that I'm becoming upset, I say something like, " I guess you and I will have to just agree to disagree about this, as our viewpoints are so different " and I remove myself from the discussion. Its one thing to have a debate about a topic and keep it in a theoretical or purely rational level, but when the emotions get involved and the debaters on either or both sides become defensive about their viewpoint, or begin to attack the other's viewpoint on an emotional or personal level, then, its no longer just a debate or a rational discussion and it devolves into a " fight. " I don't like to fight with people, so, I usually choose to walk away when it starts getting too passionate. On the other hand if I was feeling up to a vigorous and impassioned debate, I might say to my fellow debater that I'd be interested to know if their viewpoint changes if, for example, a doctor were to decide to amputate the debater's leg instead of saving it because the operation to save the leg would make the doctor miss dinner with his family. " So you wouldn't mind losing your leg so the doctor could have dinner with his family? That's so awfully generous of you. " -Annie > > Hello, > > Where do you draw the line? > > Here is the scenario. (Background) Nada was a hypocondriac who projected > imaginary illnesses onto us kids. I have had numerous horrific experiences > with doctors throughout my life doing thing to be against my wishes. During > the birth of my first daughter I was subjected to a doctor who did what she > wanted without asking and then threatened me if I tried to question her. > > On campus a discussion of current issues in society turned to the way > medical care is handled currently. Several of the participants come from > countries with far worse medical care. They were chiming in that our level > of care is excellent. I proposed that it could be better if doctors were > not so rushed and medicine was practiced based on need and not convenience. > I gave the example of cases of unnecessary C-sections performed because the > doctor wants to be home in time for dinner ect. > > The response I received is that doctors are people too and deserve a good > dinner with their family. Even if that means performing major abdominal > surgery on a non-consenting woman that she does not need. > > Having been forced into numerous unnecessary and painful procedures during > my life I know the emotional damage this does to a person. I had a very > hard time keeping my thoughts and words non-personal. I felt very hurt that > people would find this acceptable. I really enjoy being with this group and > discussing the various topics. I can't decide if I am being over-sensitive > or not. Also, I don't know how to handle it if this comes up again. Do I > politely leave the discussion? Argue the point from a personal standpoint? > I also was the only one with an opposing view which made it hard because > others would over-talk me. Not intentionally but the discussions get > everyone riled up and excited to speak. > > -- > > > " I have a grip on reality, just not this particular one. " -- Author Unknown* > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Hi , I'm not sure what your situation is, but I have definitely run into this kind of thing on campus in the counseling program. School counselors (my master's focus) take many courses with mental health counselors. So lots of challenging stuff comes up for me. It is hard to avoid chiming in on discussions because I would have to cite the source as myself, my own mother, or my roommate in the mental hospital. :-( Strange thing is, my depression at age 19 with suicide attempt, etc. is so over. By the way, it wasn't an attention thing, I went to sleep and was found the next day. I actually got to the whole convulsion point; it was hell. I am very thankful now, but I really did want to die then. Anyway, I find that many students just do not have the life experience to understand things the way they will with maturity. Sometimes they lack compassion and empathy because of their age. I end up on the short end of the argument quite often - usually with a couple of other non-traditional students who have a more mature life view. I have learned to say a few well-placed words and maintain a friendly, non-threatening demeanor as much as possible. I also take a netbook and zone out if necessary to protect myself emotionally. I'm a Mom, so I can look like I'm paying attention when I'm composing a paper or reading e-mails. lol p.s. I have found out that many people in my program have had troubled pasts or mentally ill family members. This can be a motivation for going into the psychology field. So I'm not so weird after all - although definitely weirder than most. :-) >> On campus a discussion of current issues in society turned to the way > medical care is handled currently. Several of the participants come from > countries with far worse medical care. They were chiming in that our level > of care is excellent. I proposed that it could be better if doctors were > not so rushed and medicine was practiced based on need and not convenience. > I gave the example of cases of unnecessary C-sections performed because the > doctor wants to be home in time for dinner ect. > > The response I received is that doctors are people too and deserve a good > dinner with their family. Even if that means performing major abdominal > surgery on a non-consenting woman that she does not need. > > Having been forced into numerous unnecessary and painful procedures during > my life I know the emotional damage this does to a person. I had a very > hard time keeping my thoughts and words non-personal. I felt very hurt that > people would find this acceptable. I really enjoy being with this group and > discussing the various topics. I can't decide if I am being over-sensitive > or not. Also, I don't know how to handle it if this comes up again. Do I > politely leave the discussion? Argue the point from a personal standpoint? > I also was the only one with an opposing view which made it hard because > others would over-talk me. Not intentionally but the discussions get > everyone riled up and excited to speak. > > -- > > > " I have a grip on reality, just not this particular one. " -- Author Unknown* > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2010 Report Share Posted November 18, 2010 Hi I think your example of unnecessary C sections was excellent--that is NOT a simple routine procedure; it's serious surgery that carries real potential risk to the patient.I think the response you got was more indicative of the people in your class wanting to convince *themselves* that the state of medical care here is all hunky dory than anything to do with the validity of your debating proposal.I'm sure you know that--I can also appreciate how hurtful it would be when you also *know* how abusive and painful unnecessary medical procedures are and the people around you are not getting it and sort of shrugging it off as " acceptable " .By focusing in on the " humanity " of the doctors and their " right " to little daily niceties like having their dinner on time while you are hearing this with a personal awareness and knowingness of the harm it could cause--ouch! Honestly I don't think you're being over sensitive.You are just more aware of all the implications/shades of grey/potential for harm because of your own personal experience.I've been there myself with having a very hard time keeping my words and thoughts non personal--such as in debates about child abuse.I've been in discussions like that where even if I avoided speaking from my own experience and put out statistics or objective fact based examples instead,if the other people were so invested in their own view points,they didn't hear what I was saying.Or trying to say.Often in a debate the thrill of scoring points or having one's say over rides slowing down to carefully consider an alternative point of view--and when the subject is something that the majority wants to feel " good " about,this is even more the case.Being the only one putting forth an opposing view can be a very lonely place--and deeply painful when that view is based on a real life experience that the other people in the debate can't even imagine,much less consider. It's also really hard during an ongoing debate to take a sort of " time out " to gauge for yourself how you are handling it.If you decide to speak from personal experience you run the risk of having that invalidated or ignored or to sound too emotional and subjective.If you feel so triggered that you opt to politely leave the discussion,you might later think of something you could have said and to wonder if it might have made an impact. I'd say personally,just my own two cents to take or leave,that if people in a discussion/debate are riled up and excited to speak that they are more interested in driving their own points home than in stopping to consider an alternative view point and so in that kind of situation when you know that the subject at hand is triggering to you personally it is best to tend to your own well being by giving yourself the grace of a private time out to honor the validity of your own feelings/experience *for yourself*--drawing the line basically at your own safety level.Because if you aren't going to be heard no matter how articulate you are--and again your C section example was an excellent one--you might feel doubly triggered. Or just calmly throw out your fact based,rational example (like the C section) to see if anyone bites and if they don't--and instead plump for some " feeling good " assertion such as doctors are people too and everything's fine because they just need to go home to dinner and there's no harm in that,take a deep breath and remind yourself that you do know otherwise and it isn't your debating point that is faulty and it isn't that your own experience is suspect--it's just that the other people don't want to discomfit themselves by considering your view point.Which is actually nothing personal.Sometimes we can be superbly rational and articulate and *still* we will not be heard.That in itself can be painful to know--and lonely.It's human nature to want to have our reality acknowledged but I think there are times--particularly in debates when other people want to feel good about what they believe--that it is prudent to tend to our own needs to feel safe even when that amounts to letting go of our need and expectation of being heard.It doesn't mean that what we have to say wasn't valid--often it was,just that the other people weren't prepared to get what we had to offer.If knowing that equates to needing to remove yourself from the discussion,in my opinion doing so is taking good care of yourself and you can take pride in the fact that you chose to honor your own safety over someone else's need to possibly score their own point at your expense or at the expense of talking over the point you were trying to make. I don't know if that helps--just my two cents to take or leave.I understand being triggered in these kinds of situations and I understand feeling hurt by them.I personally believe that feeling hurt by the inability of other people to really hear and consider our (minority) view point trumps needing to convince them otherwise and is what *needs* to be tended to by us so that *we* feel ok,if that makes sense > > Hello, > > Where do you draw the line? > > Here is the scenario. (Background) Nada was a hypocondriac who projected > imaginary illnesses onto us kids. I have had numerous horrific experiences > with doctors throughout my life doing thing to be against my wishes. During > the birth of my first daughter I was subjected to a doctor who did what she > wanted without asking and then threatened me if I tried to question her. > > On campus a discussion of current issues in society turned to the way > medical care is handled currently. Several of the participants come from > countries with far worse medical care. They were chiming in that our level > of care is excellent. I proposed that it could be better if doctors were > not so rushed and medicine was practiced based on need and not convenience. > I gave the example of cases of unnecessary C-sections performed because the > doctor wants to be home in time for dinner ect. > > The response I received is that doctors are people too and deserve a good > dinner with their family. Even if that means performing major abdominal > surgery on a non-consenting woman that she does not need. > > Having been forced into numerous unnecessary and painful procedures during > my life I know the emotional damage this does to a person. I had a very > hard time keeping my thoughts and words non-personal. I felt very hurt that > people would find this acceptable. I really enjoy being with this group and > discussing the various topics. I can't decide if I am being over-sensitive > or not. Also, I don't know how to handle it if this comes up again. Do I > politely leave the discussion? Argue the point from a personal standpoint? > I also was the only one with an opposing view which made it hard because > others would over-talk me. Not intentionally but the discussions get > everyone riled up and excited to speak. > > -- > > > " I have a grip on reality, just not this particular one. " -- Author Unknown* > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 I will say that I agree with you about the unnecessary c-sections. My husband is an MD, and shares my frustration with that attitude that a lot of OBGYNs have. When one of my children was 2 days overdue, my OB scheduled an induction. I called her office to ask to reschedule for the next week, only to be told that SHE WOULD BE IN CHINA for two weeks. Never mind telling me you're planning to leave the country near my due date, just subject me to procedures I don't want! I have my babies sans drugs and would rather not set foot in the hospital to do so. It is not a traditionally friendly environment for people who want to have any control at all over their labor. But it can be done--you just need good support who are willing to speak for you when you are vulnerable. A doula is a wonderful resource! The comment that doctors are people, too, is true. They are. They are people who have a choice in what field of medicine they choose. If they choose to be surgeons (OBGYNS are surgeons!), they choose to be on call, to spend long hours at the hospital, and to sacrifice time with their families. If they choose to be something less glorious, like a family doctor in a city, then they choose shorter residencies and regular clinic hours with predictable call. It is completely wrong to expect a patient--especially a woman in labor--to acquiesce to the needs of a poor, pitiful, condescending doctor. S/he is supposed to listen to the needs of his/her PATIENTS. You are not wrong to feel the way you do, and I don't blame you for feeling angry about your experience. > > Hello, > > Where do you draw the line? > > Here is the scenario. (Background) Nada was a hypocondriac who projected > imaginary illnesses onto us kids. I have had numerous horrific experiences > with doctors throughout my life doing thing to be against my wishes. During > the birth of my first daughter I was subjected to a doctor who did what she > wanted without asking and then threatened me if I tried to question her. > > On campus a discussion of current issues in society turned to the way > medical care is handled currently. Several of the participants come from > countries with far worse medical care. They were chiming in that our level > of care is excellent. I proposed that it could be better if doctors were > not so rushed and medicine was practiced based on need and not convenience. > I gave the example of cases of unnecessary C-sections performed because the > doctor wants to be home in time for dinner ect. > > The response I received is that doctors are people too and deserve a good > dinner with their family. Even if that means performing major abdominal > surgery on a non-consenting woman that she does not need. > > Having been forced into numerous unnecessary and painful procedures during > my life I know the emotional damage this does to a person. I had a very > hard time keeping my thoughts and words non-personal. I felt very hurt that > people would find this acceptable. I really enjoy being with this group and > discussing the various topics. I can't decide if I am being over-sensitive > or not. Also, I don't know how to handle it if this comes up again. Do I > politely leave the discussion? Argue the point from a personal standpoint? > I also was the only one with an opposing view which made it hard because > others would over-talk me. Not intentionally but the discussions get > everyone riled up and excited to speak. > > -- > > > " I have a grip on reality, just not this particular one. " -- Author Unknown* > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2010 Report Share Posted November 19, 2010 I will say that I agree with you about the unnecessary c-sections. My husband is an MD, and shares my frustration with that attitude that a lot of OBGYNs have. When one of my children was 2 days overdue, my OB scheduled an induction. I called her office to ask to reschedule for the next week, only to be told that SHE WOULD BE IN CHINA for two weeks. Never mind telling me you're planning to leave the country near my due date, just subject me to procedures I don't want! I have my babies sans drugs and would rather not set foot in the hospital to do so. It is not a traditionally friendly environment for people who want to have any control at all over their labor. But it can be done--you just need good support who are willing to speak for you when you are vulnerable. A doula is a wonderful resource! The comment that doctors are people, too, is true. They are. They are people who have a choice in what field of medicine they choose. If they choose to be surgeons (OBGYNS are surgeons!), they choose to be on call, to spend long hours at the hospital, and to sacrifice time with their families. If they choose to be something less glorious, like a family doctor in a city, then they choose shorter residencies and regular clinic hours with predictable call. It is completely wrong to expect a patient--especially a woman in labor--to acquiesce to the needs of a poor, pitiful, condescending doctor. S/he is supposed to listen to the needs of his/her PATIENTS. You are not wrong to feel the way you do, and I don't blame you for feeling angry about your experience. > > Hello, > > Where do you draw the line? > > Here is the scenario. (Background) Nada was a hypocondriac who projected > imaginary illnesses onto us kids. I have had numerous horrific experiences > with doctors throughout my life doing thing to be against my wishes. During > the birth of my first daughter I was subjected to a doctor who did what she > wanted without asking and then threatened me if I tried to question her. > > On campus a discussion of current issues in society turned to the way > medical care is handled currently. Several of the participants come from > countries with far worse medical care. They were chiming in that our level > of care is excellent. I proposed that it could be better if doctors were > not so rushed and medicine was practiced based on need and not convenience. > I gave the example of cases of unnecessary C-sections performed because the > doctor wants to be home in time for dinner ect. > > The response I received is that doctors are people too and deserve a good > dinner with their family. Even if that means performing major abdominal > surgery on a non-consenting woman that she does not need. > > Having been forced into numerous unnecessary and painful procedures during > my life I know the emotional damage this does to a person. I had a very > hard time keeping my thoughts and words non-personal. I felt very hurt that > people would find this acceptable. I really enjoy being with this group and > discussing the various topics. I can't decide if I am being over-sensitive > or not. Also, I don't know how to handle it if this comes up again. Do I > politely leave the discussion? Argue the point from a personal standpoint? > I also was the only one with an opposing view which made it hard because > others would over-talk me. Not intentionally but the discussions get > everyone riled up and excited to speak. > > -- > > > " I have a grip on reality, just not this particular one. " -- Author Unknown* > * > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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