Re: What do you do when the rest of the family doesn't want to know about it?

[Guest guest]

Hi Jodie,

I have a dad with BPD, and the way it worked out, he disowned me 4 days

after I got engaged. Long story short, I'm NC (no communication) with my

immediate family. With my extended family, though, a fair amount of them

understands that my dad is mentally ill, and are somewhat supportive of my

NC. Some think that it's a " normal " type of family quirkiness, and don't

really understand why I'm NC. I had explained to them the situation when

they found out that I was disowned and NC, but they didn't really want to

believe it, and encouraged me to look past my dad's faults and reconcile. I

simply said that no, it is far more than normal family faults, and is

actually dangerous to my mental health to be around my dad. Then, we don't

really talk about it anymore.

I've had to learn to accept that some people don't want to acknowledge the

elephant in the living room. They may not be ready to accept it. So, in this

case, I would advise not pressing the topic with them, and concentrate on

your relationship with these people. Eventually they may see that you're

actually not the black sheep of the family--they'll see you for who you

really are.

The important thing is to stay true to yourself, and protect your own mental

and emotional health and sanity, and make good friends. (Friends are the

relatives you get to choose!)

I am glad you're getting counseling, and keep on doing that! That's often

the best thing you can do for yourself.

Holly

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:19 AM, tala_aislin wrote:

>

>

> Hi,

>

> I have recently sought counselling with a psychologist to help work through

> the issues of growing up. After identifying situation and behaviours, the

> psychologist and I are pretty certain that my mother has BPD. But no-one

> else in the family wants to know about it. They believe everything she says,

> even though she has been caught making things up. I can't try and build my

> self-esteem and have a relationship with my mother right now, but my family

> chooses to believe her lies and are making me out to be the bad guy. I am

> afraid that I am going to lose my whole family, but if I am ever going to

> have any self-respect and consider myself to have any worth, I need to get

> out of this relationship, at least for awhile. Any thoughts / advice? It

> sounds like you are all a lot further through the process with your parents

> and I am only at the beginning.

>

> Jodie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Holly,

What a great answer...and I've finally, after so many painful years, let go of

the toxic people in my family.

I thought I could never do it, but it feels better now than it used to. I still

miss the concept of family, but I don't miss the actual real people in my

family.

It's very freeing to finally try to put yourself first.

Amy

Re: What do you do when the rest of the family

doesn't want to know about it?

Hi Jodie,

I have a dad with BPD, and the way it worked out, he disowned me 4 days

after I got engaged. Long story short, I'm NC (no communication) with my

immediate family. With my extended family, though, a fair amount of them

understands that my dad is mentally ill, and are somewhat supportive of my

NC. Some think that it's a " normal " type of family quirkiness, and don't

really understand why I'm NC. I had explained to them the situation when

they found out that I was disowned and NC, but they didn't really want to

believe it, and encouraged me to look past my dad's faults and reconcile. I

simply said that no, it is far more than normal family faults, and is

actually dangerous to my mental health to be around my dad. Then, we don't

really talk about it anymore.

I've had to learn to accept that some people don't want to acknowledge the

elephant in the living room. They may not be ready to accept it. So, in this

case, I would advise not pressing the topic with them, and concentrate on

your relationship with these people. Eventually they may see that you're

actually not the black sheep of the family--they'll see you for who you

really are.

The important thing is to stay true to yourself, and protect your own mental

and emotional health and sanity, and make good friends. (Friends are the

relatives you get to choose!)

I am glad you're getting counseling, and keep on doing that! That's often

the best thing you can do for yourself.

Holly

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:19 AM, tala_aislin wrote:

>

>

> Hi,

>

> I have recently sought counselling with a psychologist to help work through

> the issues of growing up. After identifying situation and behaviours, the

> psychologist and I are pretty certain that my mother has BPD. But no-one

> else in the family wants to know about it. They believe everything she says,

> even though she has been caught making things up. I can't try and build my

> self-esteem and have a relationship with my mother right now, but my family

> chooses to believe her lies and are making me out to be the bad guy. I am

> afraid that I am going to lose my whole family, but if I am ever going to

> have any self-respect and consider myself to have any worth, I need to get

> out of this relationship, at least for awhile. Any thoughts / advice? It

> sounds like you are all a lot further through the process with your parents

> and I am only at the beginning.

>

> Jodie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jodi,

Welcome to the Group. There are other " newbies " here, and everyone is at his or

her own stage of healing and dealing with the issue of having a

personality-disordered parent or parents. Its all entirely individual, how we

handle it, what we choose to do, or not do.

Similarly to your situation, my mother's remaining foo doesn't really want to

deal with recognizing or confronting my bpd/npd mom's personality disorder,

mainly because she behaves herself around them. My nada just treats my Sister

and me badly, and her own older sister (but she's nicer to her sister now.) I'm

lucky that my Sister and I are friends and support each other's reality RE our

history of abuse from our mother (or " nada " ). Our extended family, our

relatives on both my mother's and my dad's side just like to operate on the

premise that " everything is just fine. " They don't want to know about problems,

nobody wants to rock the boat. They just want everyone to be nice to each other

and get along.

It takes time to figure out what will work for you. Maybe a temporary " time

out " from your entire family will work, or maybe you can make contact with

individual family members (a cousin, an aunt) who seem sympathetic and develop

an individual relationship with one or two of them. Its just going to take time

to figure it all out.

Welcome to you and other new members, and I hope you can find some peace and

healing and share in giving and receiving insights with the Group.

-Annie

>

> Hi,

>

> I have recently sought counselling with a psychologist to help work through

the issues of growing up. After identifying situation and behaviours, the

psychologist and I are pretty certain that my mother has BPD. But no-one else in

the family wants to know about it. They believe everything she says, even though

she has been caught making things up. I can't try and build my self-esteem and

have a relationship with my mother right now, but my family chooses to believe

her lies and are making me out to be the bad guy. I am afraid that I am going to

lose my whole family, but if I am ever going to have any self-respect and

consider myself to have any worth, I need to get out of this relationship, at

least for awhile. Any thoughts / advice? It sounds like you are all a lot

further through the process with your parents and I am only at the beginning.

>

> Jodie

>

[Guest guest]

Jodie

You need to remember , dear, that you have for years, lost everything in

your life and being to the giant Hoover vacuum of nada. A BP will

easily and often pull many in their family and circle of friends into

the denial, the enabling, the flying monkey syndrome. They do this

because it is perplexing, and so much easier to simply go along with

them.

Don t blame them to much, for even highly trained professionals find BP

s to be among their very most demanding clients.

Demanding is the key word here. She demands of you, and of everyone

else, everything that is absent inside her. You can t provide it, but

she will take and take anyway, leaving you an empty hulk. She will

continue to demand, and FOG ( fear obligation guilt ) you for what she

wants, and what you have, even after you establish bounderies and

maintain them.

Think of it like a pioneer on the old West frontier. You stake your

claim to a piece of land that is yours. You have a lot of work to do to

make it support you. It feels odd, different, and unsafe at first.

But it is your step to independence.

You can look at it this way. BPD is a disorder. Being a KO a BPD is an

injury, caused by the relationship with the BP. Everyone near them gets

injured. Some choose to get better. Some do not. Often, those who do

not, resent the " pink monkey " who does. So, yes, choosing to be a real

rabbit, to separate yourself from nada and have a sense of self, may

also mean that you will leave others behind in the dust as well. Some

of them may come around after they finally reach their limit with her,

as everyone does, eventually, or they may not. No one takes the stuff

from a BP quite as much as their child. It is a horrible, horrible

thing to have in your life. It hurts, and sucks, worse than anyone who

has not experienced it can imagine.

We can, those of us here in this group. We all lived the life, and bear

the scars and pain.

For us, and now for you, the choice is simple. Do I want to be whole?

Or do I want to be an extension of Nada, even after her death, when I

still have no identity of my own?

If I do want to be whole, am I willing to pay whatever it costs, let go

of whomever I must, cut off everything that will not let me be my own

true self, even if the result is me on a very small circle of light?

For that is often what it is like, and what it feels like. No one can

make that choice but you. But if you do make it, you can finally start

to expand that circle of your life based on the real you , at last.

It s not easy. The guilt is overwhelming, even though not deserved.

Nada will use every trick in her book to suck you back into the web and

start feeding on you again.

But you are worth it.

May we all heal.

Doug

>

> Hi,

>

> I have recently sought counselling with a psychologist to help work

through the issues of growing up. After identifying situation and

behaviours, the psychologist and I are pretty certain that my mother has

BPD. But no-one else in the family wants to know about it. They believe

everything she says, even though she has been caught making things up. I

can't try and build my self-esteem and have a relationship with my

mother right now, but my family chooses to believe her lies and are

making me out to be the bad guy. I am afraid that I am going to lose my

whole family, but if I am ever going to have any self-respect and

consider myself to have any worth, I need to get out of this

relationship, at least for awhile. Any thoughts / advice? It sounds like

you are all a lot further through the process with your parents and I am

only at the beginning.

>

> Jodie

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder how many of us can identify with me--I'll be a few.

Whenever nada goes into her rages, me, my sis and DD stop having contact with

anyone else in the family. Part of the unspoken code--DO NOT TALK ABOUT IT

OUTSIDE the FOO.

Unfortunately, this means no one (uncles, aunts, cousins, grandparents) knows

what is going on. Nada controls the message to everyone on HER terms. The few

times we nons have attempted to discuss it with the outside family, they have

chosen to not believe me/us. This was before we figured out the BPD.

But I don't think having a diagnosis would have made any difference. Family,

especially my dad's side, is all about unconditional love. They do not

understand the conditional love concept of BPD parenting. To them, no family

situation is insurmountable. So the one who breaks from the family (me) must be

the problem.

On my nada's side, no one is left in her family that speaks to anyone else

(multiple generations of BPD, I think---or at least serious dysfunction).

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I have recently sought counselling with a psychologist to help work

> through the issues of growing up. After identifying situation and

> behaviours, the psychologist and I are pretty certain that my mother has

> BPD. But no-one else in the family wants to know about it. They believe

> everything she says, even though she has been caught making things up. I

> can't try and build my self-esteem and have a relationship with my

> mother right now, but my family chooses to believe her lies and are

> making me out to be the bad guy. I am afraid that I am going to lose my

> whole family, but if I am ever going to have any self-respect and

> consider myself to have any worth, I need to get out of this

> relationship, at least for awhile. Any thoughts / advice? It sounds like

> you are all a lot further through the process with your parents and I am

> only at the beginning.

> >

> > Jodie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In my family it was much the same. I was an only child and considered " troubled "

pretty much my whole life. Except of course, I got a degree, started a

successful business and bought a house by the time I was 25. My life is pretty

awesome now. Not the kind of life you'd expect a " troubled " child to have.

My mother was very adept at spinning fantastic tales about what I was " doing " .

Trying to kill her. Attempting to seduce her then boyfriend. (I was 11). It was

on-going. I received absolutely no support from my aunts or my grandparents. I

begged them all for help, they all said " no " .

I've been NC with my mother since 2005. All of a sudden out of the blue my

mother cut off contact with my grandmother and aunts. They were all heartbroken.

They turned to me for advice. I had none for them, nor was I really interested

in their problems.

Then, the FUNNIEST part of all? Was when, my grandmother, heartbroken, asks my

aunt to arrange a visit. So, that was all done over the phone. La la la...happy

happy happy....everyone is going to be all lovey dovey....then a letter comes. A

letter filled with wild accusations, pointing fingers, re-inventing the

past...blah blah blah and they were told that they were welcome to stay at the

hotel down the street and she may even have them over for supper one night!

HA HA HA HA! Vindication is MINE!

It only took, what....32 years for them to realize that " gee...maybe she isn't

quite right " .

I still have no real contact with my extended family. They abandonded me to her

madness. They saw it, they chose to ignore it because it would be " hard " to

change things. That isn't a loving family.

F*ck them.

>

> Hi,

>

> I have recently sought counselling with a psychologist to help work through

the issues of growing up. After identifying situation and behaviours, the

psychologist and I are pretty certain that my mother has BPD. But no-one else in

the family wants to know about it. They believe everything she says, even though

she has been caught making things up. I can't try and build my self-esteem and

have a relationship with my mother right now, but my family chooses to believe

her lies and are making me out to be the bad guy. I am afraid that I am going to

lose my whole family, but if I am ever going to have any self-respect and

consider myself to have any worth, I need to get out of this relationship, at

least for awhile. Any thoughts / advice? It sounds like you are all a lot

further through the process with your parents and I am only at the beginning.

>

> Jodie

>

[Guest guest]

i wish i came from a real loving, unconditional family...i thought i did,...life

would have been easier.

not looking for perfection, just a normal amount of normal would have been great

for me and my personality.

I really missed out on something that would have made me feel very happy and

loved.

but that's just a part of my life, I've been very lucky in lots of other areas.

My husband, my kids.

amy

Re: What do you do when the rest of the family

doesn't want to know about it?

In my family it was much the same. I was an only child and considered " troubled "

pretty much my whole life. Except of course, I got a degree, started a

successful business and bought a house by the time I was 25. My life is pretty

awesome now. Not the kind of life you'd expect a " troubled " child to have.

My mother was very adept at spinning fantastic tales about what I was " doing " .

Trying to kill her. Attempting to seduce her then boyfriend. (I was 11). It was

on-going. I received absolutely no support from my aunts or my grandparents. I

begged them all for help, they all said " no " .

I've been NC with my mother since 2005. All of a sudden out of the blue my

mother cut off contact with my grandmother and aunts. They were all heartbroken.

They turned to me for advice. I had none for them, nor was I really interested

in their problems.

Then, the FUNNIEST part of all? Was when, my grandmother, heartbroken, asks my

aunt to arrange a visit. So, that was all done over the phone. La la la...happy

happy happy....everyone is going to be all lovey dovey....then a letter comes. A

letter filled with wild accusations, pointing fingers, re-inventing the

past...blah blah blah and they were told that they were welcome to stay at the

hotel down the street and she may even have them over for supper one night!

HA HA HA HA! Vindication is MINE!

It only took, what....32 years for them to realize that " gee...maybe she isn't

quite right " .

I still have no real contact with my extended family. They abandonded me to her

madness. They saw it, they chose to ignore it because it would be " hard " to

change things. That isn't a loving family.

F*ck them.

>

> Hi,

>

> I have recently sought counselling with a psychologist to help work through

the issues of growing up. After identifying situation and behaviours, the

psychologist and I are pretty certain that my mother has BPD. But no-one else in

the family wants to know about it. They believe everything she says, even though

she has been caught making things up. I can't try and build my self-esteem and

have a relationship with my mother right now, but my family chooses to believe

her lies and are making me out to be the bad guy. I am afraid that I am going to

lose my whole family, but if I am ever going to have any self-respect and

consider myself to have any worth, I need to get out of this relationship, at

least for awhile. Any thoughts / advice? It sounds like you are all a lot

further through the process with your parents and I am only at the beginning.

>

> Jodie

>

[Guest guest]

Big thumbs-up of approval from me!

You poor little bewildered child; you had to almost literally swim upstream tied

hand and foot to save yourself from utter emotional annihilation by an extremely

disturbed mother. How terrifying and devastating to a child/teen to repeatedly

have your own mother accuse you of insanely unrealistic things like trying to

kill her, trying to seduce her, and trying to seduce her boyfriend. Good Lord.

Your mother is and was clearly way too mentally ill to have been raising a

child.

You're lucky she didn't try to kill you to " save herself " .

And I feel the same way: angrier at the enablers who just look the other way and

let a child be emotionally or physically brutalized instead of stepping in and

doing something about it. Grrrr.

-Annie

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I have recently sought counselling with a psychologist to help work through

the issues of growing up. After identifying situation and behaviours, the

psychologist and I are pretty certain that my mother has BPD. But no-one else in

the family wants to know about it. They believe everything she says, even though

she has been caught making things up. I can't try and build my self-esteem and

have a relationship with my mother right now, but my family chooses to believe

her lies and are making me out to be the bad guy. I am afraid that I am going to

lose my whole family, but if I am ever going to have any self-respect and

consider myself to have any worth, I need to get out of this relationship, at

least for awhile. Any thoughts / advice? It sounds like you are all a lot

further through the process with your parents and I am only at the beginning.

> >

> > Jodie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Jodie,

I'm about in the same spot you are, actually. I've known for a few years that my

mom has BPD, but nobody's listening to me either. I've tried to bring it up with

my dad before, and he gives me this eye-roll as if I'm talking about garden

gnomes coming to life or a unicorn living in my closet. I tell people I'm half

Egyptian because my dad comes from the Land of Denial. *rim shot*

Right now I'm almost completely out of contact with my parents and with my

brother, since his girlfriend took me out for lunch and tried to convince me

that my mother is right about everything, especially my husband (who is

currently her surface of choice for all her projections). I'm scared I might

have to give up my entire family . . . but I just can't deal with everybody

telling me I'm wrong and treating me as the wayward child who's breaking up the

family. It just leaves me with WAY too much self-hate. Sounds like it's rather

similar to what you're going through. So any time you want to call on me to

vent, feel free.

My best advice? Don't make any decisions in a hurry. Right now I'm basically

telling my family, " I need space right now b/c I have a lot of stuff to work

out " . I don't tell them it's related to the trauma of being my mother's daughter

because they won't believe me anyway. So right now I'm letting them believe

whatever they want about the reasons for my obvious mental distress, and I go

about getting my house in order. Maybe this is just a way of refusing to make

any decisions, but it works for me. I've also set out at least one clear limit -

" if my husband's not welcome, I consider myself also not welcome " - which has

pretty much gotten me out of any family obligation you can imagine.

Psyclone

>

> Hi,

>

> I have recently sought counselling with a psychologist to help work through

the issues of growing up. After identifying situation and behaviours, the

psychologist and I are pretty certain that my mother has BPD. But no-one else in

the family wants to know about it. They believe everything she says, even though

she has been caught making things up. I can't try and build my self-esteem and

have a relationship with my mother right now, but my family chooses to believe

her lies and are making me out to be the bad guy. I am afraid that I am going to

lose my whole family, but if I am ever going to have any self-respect and

consider myself to have any worth, I need to get out of this relationship, at

least for awhile. Any thoughts / advice? It sounds like you are all a lot

further through the process with your parents and I am only at the beginning.

>

> Jodie

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie, it's only been recently that I've been able to talk about the

whole trying to kill me thing. Out loud. Other things have been popping up into

my memory, weird illnesses, her encouraging me to try and kill myself. When I

did try a few times, her telling me that I couldn't even do that right.

To me, this was all normal. I really, truly beleived that I was horrible and

deserved this. So, its odd when I encounter outraged reactions from people. I

kinda feel like I shouldn't be talking about it at all, like I need to tuck it

back into my chest.

I recently told my running partner as we were running along, and she quite

literally stopped running and had this horrified look on her face. I thought she

was going to tell me that I was lying...I had a moment of panic thinking, OMG,

I've lost a friend now...but she just shook her head and started running saying

that it was like a really horrible fiction novel. It was actually embarassing.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie, it's only been recently that I've been able to talk about the

whole trying to kill me thing. Out loud. Other things have been popping up into

my memory, weird illnesses, her encouraging me to try and kill myself. When I

did try a few times, her telling me that I couldn't even do that right.

To me, this was all normal. I really, truly beleived that I was horrible and

deserved this. So, its odd when I encounter outraged reactions from people. I

kinda feel like I shouldn't be talking about it at all, like I need to tuck it

back into my chest.

I recently told my running partner as we were running along, and she quite

literally stopped running and had this horrified look on her face. I thought she

was going to tell me that I was lying...I had a moment of panic thinking, OMG,

I've lost a friend now...but she just shook her head and started running saying

that it was like a really horrible fiction novel. It was actually embarassing.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annie, it's only been recently that I've been able to talk about the

whole trying to kill me thing. Out loud. Other things have been popping up into

my memory, weird illnesses, her encouraging me to try and kill myself. When I

did try a few times, her telling me that I couldn't even do that right.

To me, this was all normal. I really, truly beleived that I was horrible and

deserved this. So, its odd when I encounter outraged reactions from people. I

kinda feel like I shouldn't be talking about it at all, like I need to tuck it

back into my chest.

I recently told my running partner as we were running along, and she quite

literally stopped running and had this horrified look on her face. I thought she

was going to tell me that I was lying...I had a moment of panic thinking, OMG,

I've lost a friend now...but she just shook her head and started running saying

that it was like a really horrible fiction novel. It was actually embarassing.

[Guest guest]

I'll say it again; any mother who *encourages her child to kill herself* is

severely, severely mentally ill and the child should be removed for her own

safety. You were swimming in a shark tank and nobody threw you a rope; you had

to pull yourself out. You just barely missed out on being a statistic, seems to

me, and most likely your nada would have put a " spin " on your suicide as a

" tragic accidental child death. " You have amazing resilience, my dear. You

are remarkable.

And its true that most people just can't register that a mother could perpetrate

that kind of sadistic abuse against her own child, or that such abuse could be

either invisible to or actively ignored by other adults and allowed to continue.

That sounds like the stuff of nightmarish fairy tales to most people; it doesn't

sound real. It appears that it really does take others who have experienced

similar abuse or trained therapists to accept that yes, this kind of horrific

emotional abuse unfortunately is very real.

It just occurred to me that trying to make the general public understand that

yes, some severely mentally ill mothers really do these kinds of things to their

kids must be similar to those targeted by the Nazis for extermination

frantically begging the free nations for help because the Nazis were quietly and

efficiently herding them into death camps. Nobody believed it; the idea of

wiping out entire groups of people by mass extermination camps was just too

shocking and unimaginable to believe, and the nations of the world were

horrified and shamed when the claims were shown to be true.

I think people have a similar wall of disbelief protecting their concept of

motherhood because the idea of insane, hostile, mothers who actually want to

hurt or even kill their children is too disturbing and horrifying. They simply

can't believe it; they refuse to believe it.

Like I said earlier, somehow its easier for other people to comprehend a father

who would sexually abuse his own kids; sympathy and understanding are given to

those victims, but there is no such similar comprehension or sympathy for the

victims of an insane, predator mother who destroys her children emotionally.

Maybe we're up against hundreds of thousands of years of physical and cultural

evolution based on survival that bias our species in favor of considering

motherhood to be " sacred " . That's the only explanation that occurs to me.

In any case, don't worry. Here, we believe you. I believe you.

Its not wrong to speak of it. It will not only help you, it may even help other

child victims of dangerously insane mothers. The truth shall set you free.

-Annie

>

>

> Thanks Annie, it's only been recently that I've been able to talk about the

whole trying to kill me thing. Out loud. Other things have been popping up into

my memory, weird illnesses, her encouraging me to try and kill myself. When I

did try a few times, her telling me that I couldn't even do that right.

>

> To me, this was all normal. I really, truly beleived that I was horrible and

deserved this. So, its odd when I encounter outraged reactions from people. I

kinda feel like I shouldn't be talking about it at all, like I need to tuck it

back into my chest.

>

> I recently told my running partner as we were running along, and she quite

literally stopped running and had this horrified look on her face. I thought she

was going to tell me that I was lying...I had a moment of panic thinking, OMG,

I've lost a friend now...but she just shook her head and started running saying

that it was like a really horrible fiction novel. It was actually embarassing.

>

[Guest guest]

These posts about the rest of the family have been so helpful to me. I have

recently realized how huge their roles are in this whole thing. Before, I

tended to " target " nada in my mind because she is the main perpetrator. But I

am beginning to see how ignoring the problems or shaming me is equally wrong.

I am a little bit confused about how to deal with the foo and flying monkeys,

but I am finding less contact helpful. This seems to be the overall theme for

me in this whole BPD maze.

Less Contact = More Peace

I haven't even stated anything openly; it just isn't necessary. I've been

through enough with them that I could now if I need to. But I would rather

spend 20 minutes here than on the phone with someone who is trying to justify

themselves in their mind, sacrificing my mental health to retain theirs. For

me, the hardest part is that they can be nice, fun or understanding AT TIMES.

It continues to pull me in, just like with nada. But the poison in the meat is

not worth the meal.

-Coal Miner's Daughter

[Guest guest]

These posts about the rest of the family have been so helpful to me. I have

recently realized how huge their roles are in this whole thing. Before, I

tended to " target " nada in my mind because she is the main perpetrator. But I

am beginning to see how ignoring the problems or shaming me is equally wrong.

I am a little bit confused about how to deal with the foo and flying monkeys,

but I am finding less contact helpful. This seems to be the overall theme for

me in this whole BPD maze.

Less Contact = More Peace

I haven't even stated anything openly; it just isn't necessary. I've been

through enough with them that I could now if I need to. But I would rather

spend 20 minutes here than on the phone with someone who is trying to justify

themselves in their mind, sacrificing my mental health to retain theirs. For

me, the hardest part is that they can be nice, fun or understanding AT TIMES.

It continues to pull me in, just like with nada. But the poison in the meat is

not worth the meal.

-Coal Miner's Daughter

[Guest guest]

These posts about the rest of the family have been so helpful to me. I have

recently realized how huge their roles are in this whole thing. Before, I

tended to " target " nada in my mind because she is the main perpetrator. But I

am beginning to see how ignoring the problems or shaming me is equally wrong.

I am a little bit confused about how to deal with the foo and flying monkeys,

but I am finding less contact helpful. This seems to be the overall theme for

me in this whole BPD maze.

Less Contact = More Peace

I haven't even stated anything openly; it just isn't necessary. I've been

through enough with them that I could now if I need to. But I would rather

spend 20 minutes here than on the phone with someone who is trying to justify

themselves in their mind, sacrificing my mental health to retain theirs. For

me, the hardest part is that they can be nice, fun or understanding AT TIMES.

It continues to pull me in, just like with nada. But the poison in the meat is

not worth the meal.

-Coal Miner's Daughter

[Guest guest]

What do they call this in a crime, an accomplice?

In " real " life, the people who help perpetrate a crime go to jail. And there is

a legal burden to report child abuse as a counselor or in other helping

professions.

If someone robs a convenience store, the driver of the getaway car gets some

time as well. hmmm...

That's what enablers are - they drive the " getaway " car. They help our nadas or

whomever " getaway " from the proper consequences of their actions.

>

> And I feel the same way: angrier at the enablers who just look the other way

and let a child be emotionally or physically brutalized instead of stepping in

and doing something about it. Grrrr.

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

What do they call this in a crime, an accomplice?

In " real " life, the people who help perpetrate a crime go to jail. And there is

a legal burden to report child abuse as a counselor or in other helping

professions.

If someone robs a convenience store, the driver of the getaway car gets some

time as well. hmmm...

That's what enablers are - they drive the " getaway " car. They help our nadas or

whomever " getaway " from the proper consequences of their actions.

>

> And I feel the same way: angrier at the enablers who just look the other way

and let a child be emotionally or physically brutalized instead of stepping in

and doing something about it. Grrrr.

>

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

Dear Elora Jade,

I second this. You are remarkable. Keep talking about it. Don't let her steal

your voice along with your childhood. We believe you - because we know.

p.s. My nada talked about suicide and said with satisfaction that I was " just

like her " when I wanted to die as a 10 year-old. Almost got it done at age 17.

Was dying when found. Thankfully recovered.

She also " taught " me to be bulemic. She showed me how to make myself throw up

when I was a pre-teen. That took YEARS to undo as well.

Thanks, Mom! NOT!!!

-Coal Miner's Daughter

>

> I'll say it again; any mother who *encourages her child to kill herself* is

severely, severely mentally ill and the child should be removed for her own

safety. You were swimming in a shark tank and nobody threw you a rope; you had

to pull yourself out. You just barely missed out on being a statistic, seems to

me, and most likely your nada would have put a " spin " on your suicide as a

" tragic accidental child death. " You have amazing resilience, my dear. You

are remarkable.

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly. There are " perps " (perpetrators) who actually commit the crime (rob

the bank) and " accomplices " actively assist the perp (like driving the get-away

car.) " Accessories " to crime are a step removed: they lie to police to hide or

protect the perp, or help launder the stolen money, but are not actively

involved at the scene of the crime.

The fuzzy gray area seems to be those who witness a crime happening, but do

nothing about it even when they could have at least called the police.

This sort of horror happened about a year ago in my state. At a high-school

dance, a minor girl was attacked and raped repeatedly by a gang of about a dozen

older teens/young adults in the back of the school, while 25-30 of the girls'

schoolmates gathered around to watch. This was not a consensual act; the girl

was screaming for help and being beaten, so badly she had to be helicoptered to

an emergency room. Her face and head had been smashed, and many bones broken,

but she lived.

How did the crime get reported? *Not one of the eye-witnesses tried to

intervene or even phone it in to the police.*

Not one. Instead, the witnesses recorded the crime in progress on their cel

phones and *posted it to their friends*.

One of the *recipients* of the video who had a human soul called 911; the police

arrived while the girl was still being assaulted. (I think the report said the

gang rape went on and on for over 20 minutes.)

Yet, so far as I know, none of the witnesses (a few were found) could actually

be prosecuted legally; technically they were just " bystanders. "

So, there are degrees of legal accountability, it would seem.

-Annie

> >

> > And I feel the same way: angrier at the enablers who just look the other way

and let a child be emotionally or physically brutalized instead of stepping in

and doing something about it. Grrrr.

> >

> > -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your responses. It is incredibly amazing to talk to people who

actually understand. The self-doubt is one of the hardest to fight against,

after so many years with a Nada, it's like they train you to do much of their

work for you. I suppose this is the FOG? To have people who write down exactly

how I feel, but haven't been able to express really helps me to validate with

myself that what I am feeling is real and take one more step out of this

horrible cycle.

To be able to say that I am getting counselling and not have people assume there

must be something wrong with me for that and therefore nothing I say is worth

anything. Each step I take I realise how immersed I am in the cycle of FOG, and

am learning not to feel guilty for the relief I have felt on not having talked

to my Nada for the past 6 months (well not responding to her emails / texts

etc).

Thank you for your support and to have someone say to me 'you are worth it' - do

you know that it is the first time in my life that I can recall, that someone

has actually said that to me. And probably the first time in my life I could

actually believe it.

It is amazing how powerful some things are, and often you don't know how much

you need it, until someone offers it. I went to a friends place for Thanksgiving

yesterday. As I am Australian, this was my first Thanksgiving and the concept to

me was incredible. It was just about being together with the people you cared

about. There were no expectations, just loving caring people sharing a meal

together and thanking each other for sharing our lives together. That is what I

think real love is about and it is so very sad so many people aren't able to

understand that, or have lost that.

So I will keep posting and keep reading and offer what support I can to you all

as well and I thank you for the support you have and will offer me. And I wish

you all the best as we head into the Christmas season. I know from my experience

that this is often the hardest time of year with families, with the expectations

that come with it.

One step at a time. Thank you for showing me that I am not alone in this.

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your responses. It is incredibly amazing to talk to people who

actually understand. The self-doubt is one of the hardest to fight against,

after so many years with a Nada, it's like they train you to do much of their

work for you. I suppose this is the FOG? To have people who write down exactly

how I feel, but haven't been able to express really helps me to validate with

myself that what I am feeling is real and take one more step out of this

horrible cycle.

To be able to say that I am getting counselling and not have people assume there

must be something wrong with me for that and therefore nothing I say is worth

anything. Each step I take I realise how immersed I am in the cycle of FOG, and

am learning not to feel guilty for the relief I have felt on not having talked

to my Nada for the past 6 months (well not responding to her emails / texts

etc).

Thank you for your support and to have someone say to me 'you are worth it' - do

you know that it is the first time in my life that I can recall, that someone

has actually said that to me. And probably the first time in my life I could

actually believe it.

It is amazing how powerful some things are, and often you don't know how much

you need it, until someone offers it. I went to a friends place for Thanksgiving

yesterday. As I am Australian, this was my first Thanksgiving and the concept to

me was incredible. It was just about being together with the people you cared

about. There were no expectations, just loving caring people sharing a meal

together and thanking each other for sharing our lives together. That is what I

think real love is about and it is so very sad so many people aren't able to

understand that, or have lost that.

So I will keep posting and keep reading and offer what support I can to you all

as well and I thank you for the support you have and will offer me. And I wish

you all the best as we head into the Christmas season. I know from my experience

that this is often the hardest time of year with families, with the expectations

that come with it.

One step at a time. Thank you for showing me that I am not alone in this.

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your responses. It is incredibly amazing to talk to people who

actually understand. The self-doubt is one of the hardest to fight against,

after so many years with a Nada, it's like they train you to do much of their

work for you. I suppose this is the FOG? To have people who write down exactly

how I feel, but haven't been able to express really helps me to validate with

myself that what I am feeling is real and take one more step out of this

horrible cycle.

To be able to say that I am getting counselling and not have people assume there

must be something wrong with me for that and therefore nothing I say is worth

anything. Each step I take I realise how immersed I am in the cycle of FOG, and

am learning not to feel guilty for the relief I have felt on not having talked

to my Nada for the past 6 months (well not responding to her emails / texts

etc).

Thank you for your support and to have someone say to me 'you are worth it' - do

you know that it is the first time in my life that I can recall, that someone

has actually said that to me. And probably the first time in my life I could

actually believe it.

It is amazing how powerful some things are, and often you don't know how much

you need it, until someone offers it. I went to a friends place for Thanksgiving

yesterday. As I am Australian, this was my first Thanksgiving and the concept to

me was incredible. It was just about being together with the people you cared

about. There were no expectations, just loving caring people sharing a meal

together and thanking each other for sharing our lives together. That is what I

think real love is about and it is so very sad so many people aren't able to

understand that, or have lost that.

So I will keep posting and keep reading and offer what support I can to you all

as well and I thank you for the support you have and will offer me. And I wish

you all the best as we head into the Christmas season. I know from my experience

that this is often the hardest time of year with families, with the expectations

that come with it.

One step at a time. Thank you for showing me that I am not alone in this.

[Guest guest]

That is how it is for me. Trying to explain it - another matter entirely. Yes

some good times are great, but when the bad times (which definately outweigh the

good ones) suck you dry, then it is not enough. As I am trying to tell my

family, just because we got along once, just because she says she loves me, it

is not enough. Not when you have to go through all that other stuff.

And it is so hard when the family doesn't want to know about it, as they only

reinforce what the Nada does. They don't want to believe you, will accuse you of

making it up, exaggerating, holding a grudge, being bitter. And worst of all,

patronize you in saying that they only want what is best for you and then try

and tell you what it is. No - what is best for me is for them to listen to me,

to actually hear me and to make the Nada take responsibility for her behaviour.

I am not holding a grudge, I just want her her to take responsibility for her

behaviour, as I think any adult should.

In some ways I think it is worse behaviour when the family turns a blind eye. I

think it is more like that example given where they just watched that poor girl

being raped. It is bad enough that someone would do that to someone, but to then

just stand and watch? Having a Nada with BPD is already an uphill battle. Yet

because they don't want to know about it (or see the proverbial elephant in the

room) they throw a few boulders down at you. After all, it is bad enough that

they are not doing anything. Then to have someone challenge them on that or try

and tell them what it was like and give them the opportunity to realise that

they didn't do anything and they could have. And that because they didn't want

to deal with it themselves, that they made things so tough for you. I am

beginning to think that these are the people it is best to walk away from.

I have always grown up thinking that family is so important and is always there

when you need them the most. But really, when I have needed them the most, they

haven't been there and still aren't. That is a real kick in the guts.

[Guest guest]

That is how it is for me. Trying to explain it - another matter entirely. Yes

some good times are great, but when the bad times (which definately outweigh the

good ones) suck you dry, then it is not enough. As I am trying to tell my

family, just because we got along once, just because she says she loves me, it

is not enough. Not when you have to go through all that other stuff.

And it is so hard when the family doesn't want to know about it, as they only

reinforce what the Nada does. They don't want to believe you, will accuse you of

making it up, exaggerating, holding a grudge, being bitter. And worst of all,

patronize you in saying that they only want what is best for you and then try

and tell you what it is. No - what is best for me is for them to listen to me,

to actually hear me and to make the Nada take responsibility for her behaviour.

I am not holding a grudge, I just want her her to take responsibility for her

behaviour, as I think any adult should.

In some ways I think it is worse behaviour when the family turns a blind eye. I

think it is more like that example given where they just watched that poor girl

being raped. It is bad enough that someone would do that to someone, but to then

just stand and watch? Having a Nada with BPD is already an uphill battle. Yet

because they don't want to know about it (or see the proverbial elephant in the

room) they throw a few boulders down at you. After all, it is bad enough that

they are not doing anything. Then to have someone challenge them on that or try

and tell them what it was like and give them the opportunity to realise that

they didn't do anything and they could have. And that because they didn't want

to deal with it themselves, that they made things so tough for you. I am

beginning to think that these are the people it is best to walk away from.

I have always grown up thinking that family is so important and is always there

when you need them the most. But really, when I have needed them the most, they

haven't been there and still aren't. That is a real kick in the guts.