Re: BPD and Inappropriate reactions

[Guest guest]

Hi Felicia,

I can only tell you what worked for me--and with the proviso that I'm

still learning.

While I've found it very helpful to inform myself of what would be

" red flags " to look out for in a potential partner that signal I've probably

encountered a " user " or a " loser " ,more fundamentally what has been helpful for

me personally is to take stock of *my own* approach to relationships.

I think I'm a fairly intelligent woman.I've known for years now that

I was abused and that how I was abused was wrong.I've known about the dynamics

of abuse and how that dysfunction plays out,especially what that meant in the

details in my own FOO.Yet,for knowing all of that,I *still* kept wandering into

emotionally abusive relationships--or worse--relationships in which I was

basically being used for sex.It was the weirdest thing: the relationship would

seem to be ok for a while,then one day I'd realize that I'd done it again--I was

in yet another relationship with someone who was way too much like nada or fada.

Every time,*in hindsight*,I could look back and notice the warning

signs or notice how I either did see them and chose to disregard them or how I

hadn't seen them because I was seeing what I wanted to see instead.

OR sometimes I did clearly see that something was rotten but when I

tried to end the relationship I let the other person hook me back in with their

protestations of how much they " needed " me.

Each relationship was somewhat different in the details of how it

" went wrong " and by fixing on those little details and trying to learn from

those details themselves (like marking them on my mental calendar as red flags

to heed " the next time " ) what I was failing to see was the one common

denominator in all of it: me!

So lately what I have been doing is taking an honest look at what

makes *me* vulnerable to getting in to dysfunctional relationships.For example

I've noticed that I go into romantic relationships with the open acceptance and

hopeful heart of the five year old little girl I was right before I began to be

sexually abused--as if I have been unconsciously wishing that if only I could be

loved now as I needed to be back then,it would magically heal everything that

came after.And I kept expecting others to cherish me for " loving " them so

acceptingly and so hopefully--unfortunately what happened was that others saw an

easy mark,at least the kind of people I ended up attracting.

But the thing is...*I am* responsible for my own healing.Nobody

protected that five year old girl.Nobody cared about her.Nobody,now,is going to

swoop in and make everything better for her.But *I* can protect her.*I* can care

about her.I will no longer hand that little girl over to the mercy of strangers

and hope for the best.I was actually re-abandoning my abused five year old self

by letting her go unprotected into those relationships I had,much the same as my

parents had just left me unprotected from rapists.

I find that it's more helpful to have compassion for myself in this way

than to blame myself for having been so deluded for so long.Blaming myself is

just inflicting more punishment.Compassionately accepting my own mistakes frees

my spirit to find solutions,better ways.

It's very very unfair that child abuse robs us of so much.My life is

not what I want it to be right now and it is not what it would have been if I

hadn't been abused.I have been revictimized and retraumatized on top of the

original abuse,many times.That hurts alot and I've had to do much processing of

that pain itself.I mean,my own nada actually *wanted* me to be destroyed.Both of

my " parents " set me up to later be handy putty in the hands of any

abuser/user/loser who came along.But I don't want to frame my recovery solely

around my " victimhood " .I want *out* of this vicious cycle!

One of the things that I couldn't wrap my head around earlier is the

idea that *anyone* would purposefully and consciously exploit or take advantage

of another person's vulnerability,just for their own selfish ends.To do so

knowingly and with full conscious intent *to exploit*.Those kinds of people (my

" parents " included) abused me while I was being constantly conditioned to

believe that I had no right to conscious intent myself.

So lately I am giving the right of conscious intent back to myself and

that is what has helped to get me unstuck,more than anything else.Not in order

to exploit others,but to consciously,purposefully,intentionally take care of

*myself* from now on.Part of having my own conscious intent now is no longer

handing myself over to the " tender mercies " of others in the hopes that it will

" be ok " this time.I'm the only one who can make sure it will be ok.That five

year old girl doesn't have to go begging out in the wide,cruel world

anymore.She's got me consciously acting on her behalf.

...I don't know if any of that helps but please let us know how you're

doing.

Take care,

>

> and

>  

> How did you get where you are now? I feel so stuck right now. I think my 2nd

husband probably is a sociopath.

>  

> We were set up.

[Guest guest]

Hi Felicia,

I can only tell you what worked for me--and with the proviso that I'm

still learning.

While I've found it very helpful to inform myself of what would be

" red flags " to look out for in a potential partner that signal I've probably

encountered a " user " or a " loser " ,more fundamentally what has been helpful for

me personally is to take stock of *my own* approach to relationships.

I think I'm a fairly intelligent woman.I've known for years now that

I was abused and that how I was abused was wrong.I've known about the dynamics

of abuse and how that dysfunction plays out,especially what that meant in the

details in my own FOO.Yet,for knowing all of that,I *still* kept wandering into

emotionally abusive relationships--or worse--relationships in which I was

basically being used for sex.It was the weirdest thing: the relationship would

seem to be ok for a while,then one day I'd realize that I'd done it again--I was

in yet another relationship with someone who was way too much like nada or fada.

Every time,*in hindsight*,I could look back and notice the warning

signs or notice how I either did see them and chose to disregard them or how I

hadn't seen them because I was seeing what I wanted to see instead.

OR sometimes I did clearly see that something was rotten but when I

tried to end the relationship I let the other person hook me back in with their

protestations of how much they " needed " me.

Each relationship was somewhat different in the details of how it

" went wrong " and by fixing on those little details and trying to learn from

those details themselves (like marking them on my mental calendar as red flags

to heed " the next time " ) what I was failing to see was the one common

denominator in all of it: me!

So lately what I have been doing is taking an honest look at what

makes *me* vulnerable to getting in to dysfunctional relationships.For example

I've noticed that I go into romantic relationships with the open acceptance and

hopeful heart of the five year old little girl I was right before I began to be

sexually abused--as if I have been unconsciously wishing that if only I could be

loved now as I needed to be back then,it would magically heal everything that

came after.And I kept expecting others to cherish me for " loving " them so

acceptingly and so hopefully--unfortunately what happened was that others saw an

easy mark,at least the kind of people I ended up attracting.

But the thing is...*I am* responsible for my own healing.Nobody

protected that five year old girl.Nobody cared about her.Nobody,now,is going to

swoop in and make everything better for her.But *I* can protect her.*I* can care

about her.I will no longer hand that little girl over to the mercy of strangers

and hope for the best.I was actually re-abandoning my abused five year old self

by letting her go unprotected into those relationships I had,much the same as my

parents had just left me unprotected from rapists.

I find that it's more helpful to have compassion for myself in this way

than to blame myself for having been so deluded for so long.Blaming myself is

just inflicting more punishment.Compassionately accepting my own mistakes frees

my spirit to find solutions,better ways.

It's very very unfair that child abuse robs us of so much.My life is

not what I want it to be right now and it is not what it would have been if I

hadn't been abused.I have been revictimized and retraumatized on top of the

original abuse,many times.That hurts alot and I've had to do much processing of

that pain itself.I mean,my own nada actually *wanted* me to be destroyed.Both of

my " parents " set me up to later be handy putty in the hands of any

abuser/user/loser who came along.But I don't want to frame my recovery solely

around my " victimhood " .I want *out* of this vicious cycle!

One of the things that I couldn't wrap my head around earlier is the

idea that *anyone* would purposefully and consciously exploit or take advantage

of another person's vulnerability,just for their own selfish ends.To do so

knowingly and with full conscious intent *to exploit*.Those kinds of people (my

" parents " included) abused me while I was being constantly conditioned to

believe that I had no right to conscious intent myself.

So lately I am giving the right of conscious intent back to myself and

that is what has helped to get me unstuck,more than anything else.Not in order

to exploit others,but to consciously,purposefully,intentionally take care of

*myself* from now on.Part of having my own conscious intent now is no longer

handing myself over to the " tender mercies " of others in the hopes that it will

" be ok " this time.I'm the only one who can make sure it will be ok.That five

year old girl doesn't have to go begging out in the wide,cruel world

anymore.She's got me consciously acting on her behalf.

...I don't know if any of that helps but please let us know how you're

doing.

Take care,

>

> and

>  

> How did you get where you are now? I feel so stuck right now. I think my 2nd

husband probably is a sociopath.

>  

> We were set up.

[Guest guest]

No

I moved across the country about a year and a half ago. I had to get protective

orders in place for 2 years. He owes me so much money. I haven't really dealt

with it that much since it happened. Just kinda put in the back of my mind. So

I got on this kick to try to find him to attempt to collect the debt. I

contacted his first wife and lo and behold the stories read just like the same

book. he lied and stole from his first 2 wives. I guess i am just beating myself

up for being so naive. his first wife had the excuse of being young and i was a

middle aged woman. both ex's are lazy liars. The lazy comes from my dad but the

liar comes from my Nada. Maybe I am stuck in the grief part. I can't stand it. 

Then I get in the fear mode. My anxiety just can get sky high and i don't really

know what i am afraid of. my nada has always put fear into everything while

being this covert, underhanded person who undermines my confidence in this

indirect way. she doesn't

outright call names just questions my ability to do anything.....it makes it

hard to call her on it. plausible deniability. and then when it enrages me, she

gets what she wants, the reaction. i am trying to wrap my head around detachment

in the budhist sense. It is just hard to break years of negative thoughts.

Subject: Re: BPD and Inappropriate reactions

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 4:42 PM

 

Felicia,are you still married to your 2nd husband?

>

> and

>  

> How did you get where you are now? I feel so stuck right now. I think my 2nd

husband probably is a sociopath.

>  

> We were set up.

[Guest guest]

No

I moved across the country about a year and a half ago. I had to get protective

orders in place for 2 years. He owes me so much money. I haven't really dealt

with it that much since it happened. Just kinda put in the back of my mind. So

I got on this kick to try to find him to attempt to collect the debt. I

contacted his first wife and lo and behold the stories read just like the same

book. he lied and stole from his first 2 wives. I guess i am just beating myself

up for being so naive. his first wife had the excuse of being young and i was a

middle aged woman. both ex's are lazy liars. The lazy comes from my dad but the

liar comes from my Nada. Maybe I am stuck in the grief part. I can't stand it. 

Then I get in the fear mode. My anxiety just can get sky high and i don't really

know what i am afraid of. my nada has always put fear into everything while

being this covert, underhanded person who undermines my confidence in this

indirect way. she doesn't

outright call names just questions my ability to do anything.....it makes it

hard to call her on it. plausible deniability. and then when it enrages me, she

gets what she wants, the reaction. i am trying to wrap my head around detachment

in the budhist sense. It is just hard to break years of negative thoughts.

Subject: Re: BPD and Inappropriate reactions

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 4:42 PM

 

Felicia,are you still married to your 2nd husband?

>

> and

>  

> How did you get where you are now? I feel so stuck right now. I think my 2nd

husband probably is a sociopath.

>  

> We were set up.

[Guest guest]

Wow,Felicia,I'm sorry

You've really been through alot.Socios who steal money from others pretty

much just do that for a living.They know exactly how to play their little (or

not so little) game--and leave their victims beating themselves up over it.They

are the ultimate users--they are scum who prey on other people's decency.I'm

sorry you haven't been able to collect on the money he owes you but I'm glad to

know at least you got away from him.When you said your 2nd husband is a

sociopath I was concerned that you were still living with him.

Yes,it's hard to break years of negative thoughts and dealing with covert

aggressive types like your nada is very very wearing.Having your confidence

undermined in ways you can't even directly confront would be extremely anxiety

provoking.It's truly a theft of the other person's sense of personal agency,to

abusively undermine their confidence in this way.

A book that really helped me to let go of any impulse to give covert

aggressives a pass or to blame myself for their behavior is K Simon's " In

Sheep's Clothing " .I don't know if this helps,but here's a link to an excerpt

from the book that outlines the tactics they use as reminders that no it's not

you,it's them (the book itself gives tips for dealing with them):

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing11.html

>

> No

> I moved across the country about a year and a half ago. I had to get

protective orders in place for 2 years. He owes me so much money. I haven't

really dealt with it that much since it happened. Just kinda put in the back of

my mind. So I got on this kick to try to find him to attempt to collect the

debt. I contacted his first wife and lo and behold the stories read just like

the same book. he lied and stole from his first 2 wives. I guess i am just

beating myself up for being so naive. his first wife had the excuse of being

young and i was a middle aged woman. both ex's are lazy liars. The lazy comes

from my dad but the liar comes from my Nada. Maybe I am stuck in the grief part.

I can't stand it.  Then I get in the fear mode. My anxiety just can get sky

high and i don't really know what i am afraid of. my nada has always put fear

into everything while being this covert, underhanded person who undermines my

confidence in this indirect way. she doesn't

> outright call names just questions my ability to do anything.....it makes it

hard to call her on it. plausible deniability. and then when it enrages me, she

gets what she wants, the reaction. i am trying to wrap my head around detachment

in the budhist sense. It is just hard to break years of negative thoughts.

[Guest guest]

Wow,Felicia,I'm sorry

You've really been through alot.Socios who steal money from others pretty

much just do that for a living.They know exactly how to play their little (or

not so little) game--and leave their victims beating themselves up over it.They

are the ultimate users--they are scum who prey on other people's decency.I'm

sorry you haven't been able to collect on the money he owes you but I'm glad to

know at least you got away from him.When you said your 2nd husband is a

sociopath I was concerned that you were still living with him.

Yes,it's hard to break years of negative thoughts and dealing with covert

aggressive types like your nada is very very wearing.Having your confidence

undermined in ways you can't even directly confront would be extremely anxiety

provoking.It's truly a theft of the other person's sense of personal agency,to

abusively undermine their confidence in this way.

A book that really helped me to let go of any impulse to give covert

aggressives a pass or to blame myself for their behavior is K Simon's " In

Sheep's Clothing " .I don't know if this helps,but here's a link to an excerpt

from the book that outlines the tactics they use as reminders that no it's not

you,it's them (the book itself gives tips for dealing with them):

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing11.html

>

> No

> I moved across the country about a year and a half ago. I had to get

protective orders in place for 2 years. He owes me so much money. I haven't

really dealt with it that much since it happened. Just kinda put in the back of

my mind. So I got on this kick to try to find him to attempt to collect the

debt. I contacted his first wife and lo and behold the stories read just like

the same book. he lied and stole from his first 2 wives. I guess i am just

beating myself up for being so naive. his first wife had the excuse of being

young and i was a middle aged woman. both ex's are lazy liars. The lazy comes

from my dad but the liar comes from my Nada. Maybe I am stuck in the grief part.

I can't stand it.  Then I get in the fear mode. My anxiety just can get sky

high and i don't really know what i am afraid of. my nada has always put fear

into everything while being this covert, underhanded person who undermines my

confidence in this indirect way. she doesn't

> outright call names just questions my ability to do anything.....it makes it

hard to call her on it. plausible deniability. and then when it enrages me, she

gets what she wants, the reaction. i am trying to wrap my head around detachment

in the budhist sense. It is just hard to break years of negative thoughts.

[Guest guest]

Wow,Felicia,I'm sorry

You've really been through alot.Socios who steal money from others pretty

much just do that for a living.They know exactly how to play their little (or

not so little) game--and leave their victims beating themselves up over it.They

are the ultimate users--they are scum who prey on other people's decency.I'm

sorry you haven't been able to collect on the money he owes you but I'm glad to

know at least you got away from him.When you said your 2nd husband is a

sociopath I was concerned that you were still living with him.

Yes,it's hard to break years of negative thoughts and dealing with covert

aggressive types like your nada is very very wearing.Having your confidence

undermined in ways you can't even directly confront would be extremely anxiety

provoking.It's truly a theft of the other person's sense of personal agency,to

abusively undermine their confidence in this way.

A book that really helped me to let go of any impulse to give covert

aggressives a pass or to blame myself for their behavior is K Simon's " In

Sheep's Clothing " .I don't know if this helps,but here's a link to an excerpt

from the book that outlines the tactics they use as reminders that no it's not

you,it's them (the book itself gives tips for dealing with them):

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing11.html

>

> No

> I moved across the country about a year and a half ago. I had to get

protective orders in place for 2 years. He owes me so much money. I haven't

really dealt with it that much since it happened. Just kinda put in the back of

my mind. So I got on this kick to try to find him to attempt to collect the

debt. I contacted his first wife and lo and behold the stories read just like

the same book. he lied and stole from his first 2 wives. I guess i am just

beating myself up for being so naive. his first wife had the excuse of being

young and i was a middle aged woman. both ex's are lazy liars. The lazy comes

from my dad but the liar comes from my Nada. Maybe I am stuck in the grief part.

I can't stand it.  Then I get in the fear mode. My anxiety just can get sky

high and i don't really know what i am afraid of. my nada has always put fear

into everything while being this covert, underhanded person who undermines my

confidence in this indirect way. she doesn't

> outright call names just questions my ability to do anything.....it makes it

hard to call her on it. plausible deniability. and then when it enrages me, she

gets what she wants, the reaction. i am trying to wrap my head around detachment

in the budhist sense. It is just hard to break years of negative thoughts.

[Guest guest]

Hi Felicia, I can't exactly recommend my course of action - I stopped dating. I

can't say that I'll never ever have a romantic relationship again, but right now

it feels unlikely. I've become very used to being single and unless I met

someone *incredible* who I felt would really enhance my life I'm not going to

bother. I'm sure there are ways to remain engaged but more careful - I really

liked 's response to you about protecting your inner loving child as

get involved with someone rather than just hoping/trusting they'll be a good

one... " this time " .

It sounds like you are married right now to your second husband who you think is

a sociopath? That is a scary and tough situation. Do you have kids? Given the

seriousness of this I'd advise you get into therapy with someone who can help

you evaluate what's going on. If you do choose to leave him and he doesn't want

you to, it can be quite difficult. Please keep your cards close to the vest if

you are working towards leaving him. It might help you to read " The Gift of

Fear " to give some perspective on what you are feeling and perceiving about him

too. Good luck and stay safe.

>

> and

>  

> How did you get where you are now? I feel so stuck right now. I think my 2nd

husband probably is a sociopath.

>  

> We were set up.

>

>

>  

[Guest guest]

Hi Felicia, I can't exactly recommend my course of action - I stopped dating. I

can't say that I'll never ever have a romantic relationship again, but right now

it feels unlikely. I've become very used to being single and unless I met

someone *incredible* who I felt would really enhance my life I'm not going to

bother. I'm sure there are ways to remain engaged but more careful - I really

liked 's response to you about protecting your inner loving child as

get involved with someone rather than just hoping/trusting they'll be a good

one... " this time " .

It sounds like you are married right now to your second husband who you think is

a sociopath? That is a scary and tough situation. Do you have kids? Given the

seriousness of this I'd advise you get into therapy with someone who can help

you evaluate what's going on. If you do choose to leave him and he doesn't want

you to, it can be quite difficult. Please keep your cards close to the vest if

you are working towards leaving him. It might help you to read " The Gift of

Fear " to give some perspective on what you are feeling and perceiving about him

too. Good luck and stay safe.

>

> and

>  

> How did you get where you are now? I feel so stuck right now. I think my 2nd

husband probably is a sociopath.

>  

> We were set up.

>

>

>  

[Guest guest]

Hi Felicia, I can't exactly recommend my course of action - I stopped dating. I

can't say that I'll never ever have a romantic relationship again, but right now

it feels unlikely. I've become very used to being single and unless I met

someone *incredible* who I felt would really enhance my life I'm not going to

bother. I'm sure there are ways to remain engaged but more careful - I really

liked 's response to you about protecting your inner loving child as

get involved with someone rather than just hoping/trusting they'll be a good

one... " this time " .

It sounds like you are married right now to your second husband who you think is

a sociopath? That is a scary and tough situation. Do you have kids? Given the

seriousness of this I'd advise you get into therapy with someone who can help

you evaluate what's going on. If you do choose to leave him and he doesn't want

you to, it can be quite difficult. Please keep your cards close to the vest if

you are working towards leaving him. It might help you to read " The Gift of

Fear " to give some perspective on what you are feeling and perceiving about him

too. Good luck and stay safe.

>

> and

>  

> How did you get where you are now? I feel so stuck right now. I think my 2nd

husband probably is a sociopath.

>  

> We were set up.

>

>

>