Guest guest Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 My Sister and I have gradually developed a friendship in which we seldom discuss our mother at all, anymore. We have other, more interesting things to talk about with each other now. Its not that we avoid talking about nada, but, she isn't the focus of our relationship with each other. Maybe try just asking about what your sister and her family have been up to lately, and talk about what you and your husband and kids have been doing, or movies, or books, or politics, or just anything other than your mother, and see if that works for you. I'm OK with the fact that my Sister is still in contact with our mother and wants to care for her. We don't pressure each other about it; I don't pressure her to cut contact, and she doesn't pressure me to resume contact. It just makes life easier, for me, anyway. -Annie > > I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old was left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.) I wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have a policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are dangerous to us or our babies. > > I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses from them! Yay! > > They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not good. " DUH! > > I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel sorry for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of state and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries here (at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of no reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point. > > Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like their lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 My Sister and I have gradually developed a friendship in which we seldom discuss our mother at all, anymore. We have other, more interesting things to talk about with each other now. Its not that we avoid talking about nada, but, she isn't the focus of our relationship with each other. Maybe try just asking about what your sister and her family have been up to lately, and talk about what you and your husband and kids have been doing, or movies, or books, or politics, or just anything other than your mother, and see if that works for you. I'm OK with the fact that my Sister is still in contact with our mother and wants to care for her. We don't pressure each other about it; I don't pressure her to cut contact, and she doesn't pressure me to resume contact. It just makes life easier, for me, anyway. -Annie > > I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old was left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.) I wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have a policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are dangerous to us or our babies. > > I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses from them! Yay! > > They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not good. " DUH! > > I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel sorry for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of state and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries here (at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of no reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point. > > Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like their lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 Thanks Annie! I will do just that. Nobody else really wants to talk about her anyway, so that should be pretty easy. There is something freeing about giving up trying to defend myself and explain things. SHOULD I GO OUT OF STATE TO VISIT THEM? (the enablers) Christmas vacation possibility. It isolates me and usually results in some badgering and emotional stress for me. But I would like to do it for my kids. I think it is just an idealistic idea that doesn't turn out good in the end anyway. Could I put up with it for the kids so they can see cousins, grandparents, and have a family Christmas? Or do the indirect effects of my stress make it hard on them anyway? I want to do the right thing for my kids and I just want it to be fun. Can I make it fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 You're the only one who can decide whether the benefits of a visit with your relatives outweigh the costs; only you know what you can and can't tolerate. Sometimes it helps me to make a comparison list: " pro " vs " con " , and see which side has more reasons listed. You could decide to just have a very, very short visit, like, you arrive Christmas eve, you're there for Christmas Day dinner and present-opening, and you leave the next morning, and stay at a nearby hotel. When I was still in contact with my nada, I found that we could tolerate each other fairly well for a couple of days, max. After than, we started getting on each others' nerves and it got bad. Very short visits worked better, for me. Are your children old enough to fly by themselves, and if they are, do you trust your sis and dad to be responsible for them and be kind to them? I think children are allowed to fly without a parent/guardian once they're, like, 9 or 10 years old (but you'd need to research the airline policies, yourself; I'm just guessing). If your children are old enough and you feel safe letting them fly without you, and they think it would be fun, and you trust your sis and dad to care for them properly, maybe sending the kids to spend a few days with the relatives while you stay home is an option. Its totally your call. If being around your relatives for several days will have a deleterious effect on your mental or physical health, then, I don't think its worth it. But that's just me; you get to decide what works for you. -Annie > > Thanks Annie! I will do just that. Nobody else really wants to talk about her anyway, so that should be pretty easy. There is something freeing about giving up trying to defend myself and explain things. > > SHOULD I GO OUT OF STATE TO VISIT THEM? (the enablers) > > Christmas vacation possibility. It isolates me and usually results in some badgering and emotional stress for me. But I would like to do it for my kids. > > I think it is just an idealistic idea that doesn't turn out good in the end anyway. Could I put up with it for the kids so they can see cousins, grandparents, and have a family Christmas? Or do the indirect effects of my stress make it hard on them anyway? I want to do the right thing for my kids and I just want it to be fun. Can I make it fun? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2010 Report Share Posted November 16, 2010 You're the only one who can decide whether the benefits of a visit with your relatives outweigh the costs; only you know what you can and can't tolerate. Sometimes it helps me to make a comparison list: " pro " vs " con " , and see which side has more reasons listed. You could decide to just have a very, very short visit, like, you arrive Christmas eve, you're there for Christmas Day dinner and present-opening, and you leave the next morning, and stay at a nearby hotel. When I was still in contact with my nada, I found that we could tolerate each other fairly well for a couple of days, max. After than, we started getting on each others' nerves and it got bad. Very short visits worked better, for me. Are your children old enough to fly by themselves, and if they are, do you trust your sis and dad to be responsible for them and be kind to them? I think children are allowed to fly without a parent/guardian once they're, like, 9 or 10 years old (but you'd need to research the airline policies, yourself; I'm just guessing). If your children are old enough and you feel safe letting them fly without you, and they think it would be fun, and you trust your sis and dad to care for them properly, maybe sending the kids to spend a few days with the relatives while you stay home is an option. Its totally your call. If being around your relatives for several days will have a deleterious effect on your mental or physical health, then, I don't think its worth it. But that's just me; you get to decide what works for you. -Annie > > Thanks Annie! I will do just that. Nobody else really wants to talk about her anyway, so that should be pretty easy. There is something freeing about giving up trying to defend myself and explain things. > > SHOULD I GO OUT OF STATE TO VISIT THEM? (the enablers) > > Christmas vacation possibility. It isolates me and usually results in some badgering and emotional stress for me. But I would like to do it for my kids. > > I think it is just an idealistic idea that doesn't turn out good in the end anyway. Could I put up with it for the kids so they can see cousins, grandparents, and have a family Christmas? Or do the indirect effects of my stress make it hard on them anyway? I want to do the right thing for my kids and I just want it to be fun. Can I make it fun? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Thank you for taking time to answer my post. I have been really confused about this. I will sit with it for a while longer. I don't feel that my children would be safe with these family members, though, especially emotionally. Plus they have some serious health issues that require breathing treatments and meds. Just the fact that I wouldn't want them to be alone with these people makes me wonder at the logic of trying to visit them anyway. Perhaps the phone relationships are the best way to go. It gives my kids the sense of having people who care about them without emotional abuse. Perhaps I need to get my butt out of my house and make some proper friends. I could break down and attend a liberal church or something so the kids could be around some fun, relatively healthy people. It's like going to a candy store to find healthy food and feeling surprised that there are no vegetables. I don't mean to generalize and black-and-white them, but my family is pretty f***ed up. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Thank you for taking time to answer my post. I have been really confused about this. I will sit with it for a while longer. I don't feel that my children would be safe with these family members, though, especially emotionally. Plus they have some serious health issues that require breathing treatments and meds. Just the fact that I wouldn't want them to be alone with these people makes me wonder at the logic of trying to visit them anyway. Perhaps the phone relationships are the best way to go. It gives my kids the sense of having people who care about them without emotional abuse. Perhaps I need to get my butt out of my house and make some proper friends. I could break down and attend a liberal church or something so the kids could be around some fun, relatively healthy people. It's like going to a candy store to find healthy food and feeling surprised that there are no vegetables. I don't mean to generalize and black-and-white them, but my family is pretty f***ed up. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Yes, I think you are right - you don't need to defend or argue why it's alarming that someone you left in charge of your child would allow your baby to fall into a trash can. If you said, " hey, sis, Mom accidentally got into YOUR car and totaled it, " I wonder if her reaction would be different. My family is the same way; excuses for unacceptable behavior, even if someone else gets hurt in the process. My brother and I have spent most of our relationship, talking about, complaining about, laughing at our mother. Now, if I try to explain how she's hurt me or manipulated me, etc., he'll scrunch his face up and say, " but she's oooold. " Same as you, I'm the one in walking distance of her, not him, so his perspective is MUCH different. He's got a nice buffer of about 40 miles, which is huge, since she doesn't drive or do mass transit! Now I do what you said so perfectly: I don't discuss her with him at ALL. When he starts complaining about her, which he will do from time to time, I change the subject. There's just no point in trying to persuade someone else of something that's right in front of your face. It's just not necessary for them to agree. > > I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old was left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.) I wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have a policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are dangerous to us or our babies. > > I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses from them! Yay! > > They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not good. " DUH! > > I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel sorry for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of state and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries here (at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of no reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point. > > Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like their lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Yes, I think you are right - you don't need to defend or argue why it's alarming that someone you left in charge of your child would allow your baby to fall into a trash can. If you said, " hey, sis, Mom accidentally got into YOUR car and totaled it, " I wonder if her reaction would be different. My family is the same way; excuses for unacceptable behavior, even if someone else gets hurt in the process. My brother and I have spent most of our relationship, talking about, complaining about, laughing at our mother. Now, if I try to explain how she's hurt me or manipulated me, etc., he'll scrunch his face up and say, " but she's oooold. " Same as you, I'm the one in walking distance of her, not him, so his perspective is MUCH different. He's got a nice buffer of about 40 miles, which is huge, since she doesn't drive or do mass transit! Now I do what you said so perfectly: I don't discuss her with him at ALL. When he starts complaining about her, which he will do from time to time, I change the subject. There's just no point in trying to persuade someone else of something that's right in front of your face. It's just not necessary for them to agree. > > I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old was left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.) I wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have a policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are dangerous to us or our babies. > > I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses from them! Yay! > > They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not good. " DUH! > > I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel sorry for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of state and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries here (at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of no reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point. > > Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like their lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 I got to the point where I thought to myself, " Do I really want to spend my holidays policing my own parents with regards to my children? Do I really want to subject myself to the ridicule/waify behavior/indignant backlash I'd receive when I tried to intervene? " Most importantly, I desperately do not want my children to internalize the message that it's okay for a person to say they love them one moment and shred their self-esteem the next, which can only set them up for a lifetime of questionable relationship choices. > > Thank you for taking time to answer my post. I have been really confused about this. I will sit with it for a while longer. > > I don't feel that my children would be safe with these family members, though, especially emotionally. Plus they have some serious health issues that require breathing treatments and meds. > > Just the fact that I wouldn't want them to be alone with these people makes me wonder at the logic of trying to visit them anyway. Perhaps the phone relationships are the best way to go. It gives my kids the sense of having people who care about them without emotional abuse. > > Perhaps I need to get my butt out of my house and make some proper friends. I could break down and attend a liberal church or something so the kids could be around some fun, relatively healthy people. It's like going to a candy store to find healthy food and feeling surprised that there are no vegetables. I don't mean to generalize and black-and-white them, but my family is pretty f***ed up. Sorry. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 I got to the point where I thought to myself, " Do I really want to spend my holidays policing my own parents with regards to my children? Do I really want to subject myself to the ridicule/waify behavior/indignant backlash I'd receive when I tried to intervene? " Most importantly, I desperately do not want my children to internalize the message that it's okay for a person to say they love them one moment and shred their self-esteem the next, which can only set them up for a lifetime of questionable relationship choices. > > Thank you for taking time to answer my post. I have been really confused about this. I will sit with it for a while longer. > > I don't feel that my children would be safe with these family members, though, especially emotionally. Plus they have some serious health issues that require breathing treatments and meds. > > Just the fact that I wouldn't want them to be alone with these people makes me wonder at the logic of trying to visit them anyway. Perhaps the phone relationships are the best way to go. It gives my kids the sense of having people who care about them without emotional abuse. > > Perhaps I need to get my butt out of my house and make some proper friends. I could break down and attend a liberal church or something so the kids could be around some fun, relatively healthy people. It's like going to a candy store to find healthy food and feeling surprised that there are no vegetables. I don't mean to generalize and black-and-white them, but my family is pretty f***ed up. Sorry. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 THANK YOU for the support and confirmation. After years of feeling so alone, confused and crazy, it is amazing to hear someone say, " Yeah, that makes sense. " I can't tell you how much it means for you just to say that I'm basically right that my baby shouldn't be left unattended. I can't believe I need reassurance on something this simple! It makes me wonder how far down I need to dig to find truth. Should I just throw out everything I think I know and start over???!!! In the past, when nada and her crew of enablers worked on me long enough, I tended to cave in. Even they are getting tired of her now, though. SO, I said something right? WOW!!! > > > > I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old was left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.) I wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have a policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are dangerous to us or our babies. > > > > I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses from them! Yay! > > > > They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not good. " DUH! > > > > I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel sorry for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of state and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries here (at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of no reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point. > > > > Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like their lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2010 Report Share Posted November 17, 2010 Yeah, I wonder if my children's holiday memories would be nicer if we were at home in peace enjoying Christmas. Calm, happy, fun memories. Mommy making cookies letting them roll out the dough, putting up lots of decorations, counting down the days on a little snowman calendar, looking at toys online... This is sounding like a good idea. " I'll be home for Christmas... You can count on me... " (singing) THANKS!!! > > I got to the point where I thought to myself, " Do I really want to spend my holidays policing my own parents with regards to my children? Do I really want to subject myself to the ridicule/waify behavior/indignant backlash I'd receive when I tried to intervene? " Most importantly, I desperately do not want my children to internalize the message that it's okay for a person to say they love them one moment and shred their self-esteem the next, which can only set them up for a lifetime of questionable relationship choices. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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