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My Sister and I have gradually developed a friendship in which we seldom discuss

our mother at all, anymore. We have other, more interesting things to talk

about with each other now. Its not that we avoid talking about nada, but, she

isn't the focus of our relationship with each other.

Maybe try just asking about what your sister and her family have been up to

lately, and talk about what you and your husband and kids have been doing, or

movies, or books, or politics, or just anything other than your mother, and see

if that works for you.

I'm OK with the fact that my Sister is still in contact with our mother and

wants to care for her. We don't pressure each other about it; I don't pressure

her to cut contact, and she doesn't pressure me to resume contact. It just

makes life easier, for me, anyway.

-Annie

>

> I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old was

left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.) I

wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have a

policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are

dangerous to us or our babies.

>

> I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I

can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses

from them! Yay!

>

> They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something

about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the

trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's

not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not

good. " DUH!

>

> I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel sorry

for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of state

and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries here

(at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of no

reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point.

>

> Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like their

lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's

craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system?

>

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My Sister and I have gradually developed a friendship in which we seldom discuss

our mother at all, anymore. We have other, more interesting things to talk

about with each other now. Its not that we avoid talking about nada, but, she

isn't the focus of our relationship with each other.

Maybe try just asking about what your sister and her family have been up to

lately, and talk about what you and your husband and kids have been doing, or

movies, or books, or politics, or just anything other than your mother, and see

if that works for you.

I'm OK with the fact that my Sister is still in contact with our mother and

wants to care for her. We don't pressure each other about it; I don't pressure

her to cut contact, and she doesn't pressure me to resume contact. It just

makes life easier, for me, anyway.

-Annie

>

> I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old was

left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.) I

wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have a

policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are

dangerous to us or our babies.

>

> I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I

can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses

from them! Yay!

>

> They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something

about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the

trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's

not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not

good. " DUH!

>

> I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel sorry

for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of state

and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries here

(at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of no

reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point.

>

> Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like their

lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's

craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system?

>

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Thanks Annie! I will do just that. Nobody else really wants to talk about her

anyway, so that should be pretty easy. There is something freeing about giving

up trying to defend myself and explain things.

SHOULD I GO OUT OF STATE TO VISIT THEM? (the enablers)

Christmas vacation possibility. It isolates me and usually results in some

badgering and emotional stress for me. But I would like to do it for my kids.

I think it is just an idealistic idea that doesn't turn out good in the end

anyway. Could I put up with it for the kids so they can see cousins,

grandparents, and have a family Christmas? Or do the indirect effects of my

stress make it hard on them anyway? I want to do the right thing for my kids

and I just want it to be fun. Can I make it fun?

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You're the only one who can decide whether the benefits of a visit with your

relatives outweigh the costs; only you know what you can and can't tolerate.

Sometimes it helps me to make a comparison list: " pro " vs " con " , and see which

side has more reasons listed.

You could decide to just have a very, very short visit, like, you arrive

Christmas eve, you're there for Christmas Day dinner and present-opening, and

you leave the next morning, and stay at a nearby hotel. When I was still in

contact with my nada, I found that we could tolerate each other fairly well for

a couple of days, max. After than, we started getting on each others' nerves

and it got bad.

Very short visits worked better, for me.

Are your children old enough to fly by themselves, and if they are, do you trust

your sis and dad to be responsible for them and be kind to them? I think

children are allowed to fly without a parent/guardian once they're, like, 9 or

10 years old (but you'd need to research the airline policies, yourself; I'm

just guessing). If your children are old enough and you feel safe letting them

fly without you, and they think it would be fun, and you trust your sis and dad

to care for them properly, maybe sending the kids to spend a few days with the

relatives while you stay home is an option.

Its totally your call. If being around your relatives for several days will

have a deleterious effect on your mental or physical health, then, I don't think

its worth it. But that's just me; you get to decide what works for you.

-Annie

>

> Thanks Annie! I will do just that. Nobody else really wants to talk about

her anyway, so that should be pretty easy. There is something freeing about

giving up trying to defend myself and explain things.

>

> SHOULD I GO OUT OF STATE TO VISIT THEM? (the enablers)

>

> Christmas vacation possibility. It isolates me and usually results in some

badgering and emotional stress for me. But I would like to do it for my kids.

>

> I think it is just an idealistic idea that doesn't turn out good in the end

anyway. Could I put up with it for the kids so they can see cousins,

grandparents, and have a family Christmas? Or do the indirect effects of my

stress make it hard on them anyway? I want to do the right thing for my kids

and I just want it to be fun. Can I make it fun?

>

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Share on other sites

You're the only one who can decide whether the benefits of a visit with your

relatives outweigh the costs; only you know what you can and can't tolerate.

Sometimes it helps me to make a comparison list: " pro " vs " con " , and see which

side has more reasons listed.

You could decide to just have a very, very short visit, like, you arrive

Christmas eve, you're there for Christmas Day dinner and present-opening, and

you leave the next morning, and stay at a nearby hotel. When I was still in

contact with my nada, I found that we could tolerate each other fairly well for

a couple of days, max. After than, we started getting on each others' nerves

and it got bad.

Very short visits worked better, for me.

Are your children old enough to fly by themselves, and if they are, do you trust

your sis and dad to be responsible for them and be kind to them? I think

children are allowed to fly without a parent/guardian once they're, like, 9 or

10 years old (but you'd need to research the airline policies, yourself; I'm

just guessing). If your children are old enough and you feel safe letting them

fly without you, and they think it would be fun, and you trust your sis and dad

to care for them properly, maybe sending the kids to spend a few days with the

relatives while you stay home is an option.

Its totally your call. If being around your relatives for several days will

have a deleterious effect on your mental or physical health, then, I don't think

its worth it. But that's just me; you get to decide what works for you.

-Annie

>

> Thanks Annie! I will do just that. Nobody else really wants to talk about

her anyway, so that should be pretty easy. There is something freeing about

giving up trying to defend myself and explain things.

>

> SHOULD I GO OUT OF STATE TO VISIT THEM? (the enablers)

>

> Christmas vacation possibility. It isolates me and usually results in some

badgering and emotional stress for me. But I would like to do it for my kids.

>

> I think it is just an idealistic idea that doesn't turn out good in the end

anyway. Could I put up with it for the kids so they can see cousins,

grandparents, and have a family Christmas? Or do the indirect effects of my

stress make it hard on them anyway? I want to do the right thing for my kids

and I just want it to be fun. Can I make it fun?

>

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Thank you for taking time to answer my post. I have been really confused about

this. I will sit with it for a while longer.

I don't feel that my children would be safe with these family members, though,

especially emotionally. Plus they have some serious health issues that require

breathing treatments and meds.

Just the fact that I wouldn't want them to be alone with these people makes me

wonder at the logic of trying to visit them anyway. Perhaps the phone

relationships are the best way to go. It gives my kids the sense of having

people who care about them without emotional abuse.

Perhaps I need to get my butt out of my house and make some proper friends. I

could break down and attend a liberal church or something so the kids could be

around some fun, relatively healthy people. It's like going to a candy store to

find healthy food and feeling surprised that there are no vegetables. I don't

mean to generalize and black-and-white them, but my family is pretty f***ed up.

Sorry.

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Thank you for taking time to answer my post. I have been really confused about

this. I will sit with it for a while longer.

I don't feel that my children would be safe with these family members, though,

especially emotionally. Plus they have some serious health issues that require

breathing treatments and meds.

Just the fact that I wouldn't want them to be alone with these people makes me

wonder at the logic of trying to visit them anyway. Perhaps the phone

relationships are the best way to go. It gives my kids the sense of having

people who care about them without emotional abuse.

Perhaps I need to get my butt out of my house and make some proper friends. I

could break down and attend a liberal church or something so the kids could be

around some fun, relatively healthy people. It's like going to a candy store to

find healthy food and feeling surprised that there are no vegetables. I don't

mean to generalize and black-and-white them, but my family is pretty f***ed up.

Sorry.

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Yes, I think you are right - you don't need to defend or argue why it's alarming

that someone you left in charge of your child would allow your baby to fall into

a trash can. If you said, " hey, sis, Mom accidentally got into YOUR car and

totaled it, " I wonder if her reaction would be different. My family is the

same way; excuses for unacceptable behavior, even if someone else gets hurt in

the process.

My brother and I have spent most of our relationship, talking about, complaining

about, laughing at our mother. Now, if I try to explain how she's hurt me or

manipulated me, etc., he'll scrunch his face up and say, " but she's oooold. "

Same as you, I'm the one in walking distance of her, not him, so his perspective

is MUCH different. He's got a nice buffer of about 40 miles, which is huge,

since she doesn't drive or do mass transit! Now I do what you said so

perfectly: I don't discuss her with him at ALL. When he starts complaining

about her, which he will do from time to time, I change the subject.

There's just no point in trying to persuade someone else of something that's

right in front of your face. It's just not necessary for them to agree.

>

> I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old was

left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.) I

wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have a

policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are

dangerous to us or our babies.

>

> I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I

can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses

from them! Yay!

>

> They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something

about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the

trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's

not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not

good. " DUH!

>

> I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel sorry

for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of state

and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries here

(at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of no

reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point.

>

> Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like their

lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's

craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system?

>

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Yes, I think you are right - you don't need to defend or argue why it's alarming

that someone you left in charge of your child would allow your baby to fall into

a trash can. If you said, " hey, sis, Mom accidentally got into YOUR car and

totaled it, " I wonder if her reaction would be different. My family is the

same way; excuses for unacceptable behavior, even if someone else gets hurt in

the process.

My brother and I have spent most of our relationship, talking about, complaining

about, laughing at our mother. Now, if I try to explain how she's hurt me or

manipulated me, etc., he'll scrunch his face up and say, " but she's oooold. "

Same as you, I'm the one in walking distance of her, not him, so his perspective

is MUCH different. He's got a nice buffer of about 40 miles, which is huge,

since she doesn't drive or do mass transit! Now I do what you said so

perfectly: I don't discuss her with him at ALL. When he starts complaining

about her, which he will do from time to time, I change the subject.

There's just no point in trying to persuade someone else of something that's

right in front of your face. It's just not necessary for them to agree.

>

> I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old was

left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.) I

wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have a

policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are

dangerous to us or our babies.

>

> I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I

can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses

from them! Yay!

>

> They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something

about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the

trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's

not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not

good. " DUH!

>

> I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel sorry

for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of state

and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries here

(at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of no

reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point.

>

> Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like their

lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's

craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system?

>

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I got to the point where I thought to myself, " Do I really want to spend my

holidays policing my own parents with regards to my children? Do I really want

to subject myself to the ridicule/waify behavior/indignant backlash I'd receive

when I tried to intervene? " Most importantly, I desperately do not want my

children to internalize the message that it's okay for a person to say they love

them one moment and shred their self-esteem the next, which can only set them up

for a lifetime of questionable relationship choices.

>

> Thank you for taking time to answer my post. I have been really confused

about this. I will sit with it for a while longer.

>

> I don't feel that my children would be safe with these family members, though,

especially emotionally. Plus they have some serious health issues that require

breathing treatments and meds.

>

> Just the fact that I wouldn't want them to be alone with these people makes me

wonder at the logic of trying to visit them anyway. Perhaps the phone

relationships are the best way to go. It gives my kids the sense of having

people who care about them without emotional abuse.

>

> Perhaps I need to get my butt out of my house and make some proper friends. I

could break down and attend a liberal church or something so the kids could be

around some fun, relatively healthy people. It's like going to a candy store to

find healthy food and feeling surprised that there are no vegetables. I don't

mean to generalize and black-and-white them, but my family is pretty f***ed up.

Sorry.

>

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I got to the point where I thought to myself, " Do I really want to spend my

holidays policing my own parents with regards to my children? Do I really want

to subject myself to the ridicule/waify behavior/indignant backlash I'd receive

when I tried to intervene? " Most importantly, I desperately do not want my

children to internalize the message that it's okay for a person to say they love

them one moment and shred their self-esteem the next, which can only set them up

for a lifetime of questionable relationship choices.

>

> Thank you for taking time to answer my post. I have been really confused

about this. I will sit with it for a while longer.

>

> I don't feel that my children would be safe with these family members, though,

especially emotionally. Plus they have some serious health issues that require

breathing treatments and meds.

>

> Just the fact that I wouldn't want them to be alone with these people makes me

wonder at the logic of trying to visit them anyway. Perhaps the phone

relationships are the best way to go. It gives my kids the sense of having

people who care about them without emotional abuse.

>

> Perhaps I need to get my butt out of my house and make some proper friends. I

could break down and attend a liberal church or something so the kids could be

around some fun, relatively healthy people. It's like going to a candy store to

find healthy food and feeling surprised that there are no vegetables. I don't

mean to generalize and black-and-white them, but my family is pretty f***ed up.

Sorry.

>

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THANK YOU for the support and confirmation. After years of feeling so alone,

confused and crazy, it is amazing to hear someone say, " Yeah, that makes sense. "

I can't tell you how much it means for you just to say that I'm basically right

that my baby shouldn't be left unattended. I can't believe I need reassurance

on something this simple!

It makes me wonder how far down I need to dig to find truth. Should I just

throw out everything I think I know and start over???!!! In the past, when nada

and her crew of enablers worked on me long enough, I tended to cave in. Even

they are getting tired of her now, though.

SO, I said something right? WOW!!!

> >

> > I called sis and fada to tell about the trashcan incident. (My 2 year-old

was left unattended under nada's care and fell in a city sanitation trash can.)

I wanted sis to know because she is having nada visit for Thanksgiving. We have

a policy recently of informing one another of nada's shenanigans when they are

dangerous to us or our babies.

> >

> > I told them both quickly and did not delve into personal feelings because I

can now do that here instead of getting unsatisfactory or condemning responses

from them! Yay!

> >

> > They both responded minimally and even defended nada! Sis mumbled something

about nada feeling sad lately, etc. Fada (divorced from nada) asked if the

trash can could have been in the back yard at the time. I said, " No, but that's

not the point. The kids were left unattended. " He said, " Oh yeah, that's not

good. " DUH!

> >

> > I am so tired of explaning myself to them and trying to act like I feel

sorry for this crazy person who makes my life a living hell. They live out of

state and don't have to deal with it. I think it's time to make some boundaries

here (at least in my mind to stop " playing " the game with them). I can think of

no reason to defend myself or discuss nada at all at this point.

> >

> > Would that be a reasonable way to handle things? Sometimes I feel like

their lack of support or verbal attacks are almost more damaging than nada's

craziness. What are the enablers' effects in a family system?

> >

>

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Yeah, I wonder if my children's holiday memories would be nicer if we were at

home in peace enjoying Christmas. Calm, happy, fun memories. Mommy making

cookies letting them roll out the dough, putting up lots of decorations,

counting down the days on a little snowman calendar, looking at toys online...

This is sounding like a good idea.

" I'll be home for Christmas... You can count on me... " (singing)

THANKS!!!

>

> I got to the point where I thought to myself, " Do I really want to spend my

holidays policing my own parents with regards to my children? Do I really want

to subject myself to the ridicule/waify behavior/indignant backlash I'd receive

when I tried to intervene? " Most importantly, I desperately do not want my

children to internalize the message that it's okay for a person to say they love

them one moment and shred their self-esteem the next, which can only set them up

for a lifetime of questionable relationship choices.

>

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