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Posted
Posted

jgar,

When I read your story and got to the part where your mother said she's done

with you, I thought " great, there's you're out! " Your mother wanted control

and to know she could control you. I am guessing but you probably would like

to feel this woman loves you. I don't see any resolution.

Good luck with this though!

>

>

> Part One

> Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long disagreement right

> now, and I just need to be able to put all this somewhere. It's a small

> issue in itself, but it's set in such a long context of situations just like

> it, and she has been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of

> affection or liking for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so I

> understand if it's just too much for an internet board.

>

> She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower. Because of

> our mothers' relationship, I basically felt obligated to comply when this

> girl and her mother invited me to stay over two or three times in my late

> teens. At that point in my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of

> offending anyone to say no.

>

> I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times I saw her on

> breaks from my college trying to nod and smile while she told me about her

> boyfriend in jail and showed me the pictures of herself in her underwear she

> was sending to him. If not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a

> snob, then I'm a snob.

>

> Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I didn't want to

> go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

>

> Part Two

> She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when she hangs

> out with this woman/daughter pair, and another woman/daughter pair friend of

> hers, she " sees all the other daughters there and I feel like the only kid

> at the school play without a mommy. "

>

> Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told her I

> appreciated her sharing her feelings with me, and said it must be awful to

> feel that way. I learned long ago to never tell her her feelings are

> irrational. You don't tell crazy people they're crazy! I did, however, point

> out that those daughters live with their mothers because they got pregnant

> in their late teens and can't support themselves financially, whereas I live

> two hours away and visit her because I like seeing her (okay, so that last

> part was a lie). I also told her that I don't like baby showers (I HATE

> showers of any kind, weddings, too) and still wasn't sure why she thought I

> needed to be there.

>

> Part Three

> She called me in late September to tell me that she had been named

> godmother to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be planning the

> shower. I said, " Mom, I thought we already talked about this. " She said,

> " Yes, and I thought we agreed you were going to come. " I reiterated that I

> was not coming, and she told me that this was very important to her, that

> she didn't even know what to say, but that she was not getting over this any

> time soon. Then she hung up.

>

> Part Four

> She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I did weekly

> just to remind her that I still loved her and that my not coming didn't have

> anything to do with that. We exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

>

> " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther to

> accompany me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you have a life),however

> this event was of particular importance TO ME. You said you understood. So

> is it you understand and just don't give a shit about me and my feelings or

> is it something else? I cried tring to figure out what it is that I did to

> you to get to the point where I have to beg you to come to this one baby

> shower with me.If I can't have any expectation of relying on you to attend a

> function that I'm helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you at

> all...I would have hoped that when on the few occasions I ask for something

> for ME and say it is important to ME I'm met with such BS. I was after all

> for many years the only one always there for you... "

>

> It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the few

> occasions " that she has asked something from me. She asks for things a lot.

> I wrote back and told her it was not my intention to hurt her, I loved her,

> but I was not going. I also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention

> of reasoning with her.

>

> Part Five

> She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I tell her

> I'm confused, as this is the third time I've said no. She repeats that she's

> not getting over this, and if I don't go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that

> before. However, she STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would

> have it, the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's wedding.

> She calls me the day of the shower.

>

> " You're not coming today? "

>

> " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

>

> " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people because I'm

> done. It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck yourself. I told you this

> was important to me, but it's over, so you just keep walking. "

>

> Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get around to

> it. I spent half an hour doing little more than grunting in response to her

> telling me how I never go out of my way for her or put myself out of my

> comfort zone. She also told me that she was so embarrassed that I was there

> (even though I had a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew

> it), that she bought a changing table and said it was from me. WTF?

>

> When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer exhaustion of

> listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so many things that I could

> say to her, and not one of them is worth saying because she does not

> understand logic. I am at a loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark

> with no help and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who

> lives in a completely different reality. I've been to therapy, but as we all

> know, therapy can only help you change yourself (I have, btw; I've got a

> better handle on my depression, I changed my expectations of mom, and even

> this whole debacle hasn't had the effect on my life it would have just a

> year or two ago). Who could navigate a conversation with this woman? She

> will alter reality and normalcy, taking back and bending things she said and

> things I didn't say, all because the only thing she understands is that

> she's not getting something she wants. If you've made it this far in my

> post, thanks! Even sending this out into the internet has been something of

> a relief.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

jgar,

When I read your story and got to the part where your mother said she's done

with you, I thought " great, there's you're out! " Your mother wanted control

and to know she could control you. I am guessing but you probably would like

to feel this woman loves you. I don't see any resolution.

Good luck with this though!

>

>

> Part One

> Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long disagreement right

> now, and I just need to be able to put all this somewhere. It's a small

> issue in itself, but it's set in such a long context of situations just like

> it, and she has been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of

> affection or liking for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so I

> understand if it's just too much for an internet board.

>

> She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower. Because of

> our mothers' relationship, I basically felt obligated to comply when this

> girl and her mother invited me to stay over two or three times in my late

> teens. At that point in my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of

> offending anyone to say no.

>

> I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times I saw her on

> breaks from my college trying to nod and smile while she told me about her

> boyfriend in jail and showed me the pictures of herself in her underwear she

> was sending to him. If not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a

> snob, then I'm a snob.

>

> Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I didn't want to

> go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

>

> Part Two

> She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when she hangs

> out with this woman/daughter pair, and another woman/daughter pair friend of

> hers, she " sees all the other daughters there and I feel like the only kid

> at the school play without a mommy. "

>

> Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told her I

> appreciated her sharing her feelings with me, and said it must be awful to

> feel that way. I learned long ago to never tell her her feelings are

> irrational. You don't tell crazy people they're crazy! I did, however, point

> out that those daughters live with their mothers because they got pregnant

> in their late teens and can't support themselves financially, whereas I live

> two hours away and visit her because I like seeing her (okay, so that last

> part was a lie). I also told her that I don't like baby showers (I HATE

> showers of any kind, weddings, too) and still wasn't sure why she thought I

> needed to be there.

>

> Part Three

> She called me in late September to tell me that she had been named

> godmother to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be planning the

> shower. I said, " Mom, I thought we already talked about this. " She said,

> " Yes, and I thought we agreed you were going to come. " I reiterated that I

> was not coming, and she told me that this was very important to her, that

> she didn't even know what to say, but that she was not getting over this any

> time soon. Then she hung up.

>

> Part Four

> She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I did weekly

> just to remind her that I still loved her and that my not coming didn't have

> anything to do with that. We exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

>

> " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther to

> accompany me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you have a life),however

> this event was of particular importance TO ME. You said you understood. So

> is it you understand and just don't give a shit about me and my feelings or

> is it something else? I cried tring to figure out what it is that I did to

> you to get to the point where I have to beg you to come to this one baby

> shower with me.If I can't have any expectation of relying on you to attend a

> function that I'm helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you at

> all...I would have hoped that when on the few occasions I ask for something

> for ME and say it is important to ME I'm met with such BS. I was after all

> for many years the only one always there for you... "

>

> It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the few

> occasions " that she has asked something from me. She asks for things a lot.

> I wrote back and told her it was not my intention to hurt her, I loved her,

> but I was not going. I also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention

> of reasoning with her.

>

> Part Five

> She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I tell her

> I'm confused, as this is the third time I've said no. She repeats that she's

> not getting over this, and if I don't go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that

> before. However, she STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would

> have it, the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's wedding.

> She calls me the day of the shower.

>

> " You're not coming today? "

>

> " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

>

> " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people because I'm

> done. It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck yourself. I told you this

> was important to me, but it's over, so you just keep walking. "

>

> Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get around to

> it. I spent half an hour doing little more than grunting in response to her

> telling me how I never go out of my way for her or put myself out of my

> comfort zone. She also told me that she was so embarrassed that I was there

> (even though I had a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew

> it), that she bought a changing table and said it was from me. WTF?

>

> When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer exhaustion of

> listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so many things that I could

> say to her, and not one of them is worth saying because she does not

> understand logic. I am at a loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark

> with no help and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who

> lives in a completely different reality. I've been to therapy, but as we all

> know, therapy can only help you change yourself (I have, btw; I've got a

> better handle on my depression, I changed my expectations of mom, and even

> this whole debacle hasn't had the effect on my life it would have just a

> year or two ago). Who could navigate a conversation with this woman? She

> will alter reality and normalcy, taking back and bending things she said and

> things I didn't say, all because the only thing she understands is that

> she's not getting something she wants. If you've made it this far in my

> post, thanks! Even sending this out into the internet has been something of

> a relief.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

I'm sorry you've had to put up with this argument for so long.

This sounds so typical of a nada. Everything always has to be

about them. Telling the story to people who understands helps,

doesn't it?

In your situation, I think I'd take her saying that she was done

as a good excuse to drop out of contact with her. If that's what

she says she wants, let her have it. If you do, my guess is that

she'll eventually contact you wanting something and acting like

she doesn't remember saying that she was done with you. That's

how my nada acts.

At 10:36 AM 11/19/2010 Jgar wrote:

>Part One

>Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long

>disagreement right now, and I just need to be able to put all

>this somewhere. It's a small issue in itself, but it's set in

>such a long context of situations just like it, and she has

>been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection

>or liking for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so

>I understand if it's just too much for an internet board.

>

>She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower.

>Because of our mothers' relationship, I basically felt

>obligated to comply when this girl and her mother invited me to

>stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that point in

>my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone

>to say no.

>

>I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times

>I saw her on breaks from my college trying to nod and smile

>while she told me about her boyfriend in jail and showed me the

>pictures of herself in her underwear she was sending to him. If

>not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob, then

>I'm a snob.

>

>Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I

>didn't want to go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

>

>

>Part Two

>She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when

>she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

>woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she " sees all the other

>daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the school play

>without a mommy. "

>

>Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told

>her I appreciated her sharing her feelings with me, and said it

>must be awful to feel that way. I learned long ago to never

>tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell crazy

>people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those

>daughters live with their mothers because they got pregnant in

>their late teens and can't support themselves financially,

>whereas I live two hours away and visit her because I like

>seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

>that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind,

>weddings, too) and still wasn't sure why she thought I needed

>to be there.

>

>Part Three

>She called me in late September to tell me that she had been

>named godmother to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be

>planning the shower. I said, " Mom, I thought we already talked

>about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we agreed you were

>going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she

>told me that this was very important to her, that she didn't

>even know what to say, but that she was not getting over this

>any time soon. Then she hung up.

>

>Part Four

>She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I

>did weekly just to remind her that I still loved her and that

>my not coming didn't have anything to do with that. We

>exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

>

> " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther

>to accompany me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you

>have a life),however this event was of particular

>importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

>understand and just don't give a shit about me and my

>feelings or is it something else? I cried tring to figure out

>what it is that I did to you to get to the point where I have

>to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If I can't

>have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function

>that I'm helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you

>at all...I would have hoped that when on the few occasions I

>ask for something for ME and say it is important to ME I'm met

>with such BS. I was after all for many years the only one

>always there for you... "

>

>It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the

>few occasions " that she has asked something from me. She asks

>for things a lot. I wrote back and told her it was not my

>intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not going. I

>also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of

>reasoning with her.

>

>Part Five

>She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I

>tell her I'm confused, as this is the third time I've said no.

>She repeats that she's not getting over this, and if I don't

>go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before. However, she

>STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have

>it, the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's

>wedding. She calls me the day of the shower.

>

> " You're not coming today? "

>

> " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

>

> " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people

>because I'm done. It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck

>yourself. I told you this was important to me, but it's over,

>so you just keep walking. "

>

>Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get

>around to it. I spent half an hour doing little more than

>grunting in response to her telling me how I never go out of my

>way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone. She also told

>me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I

>had a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew

>it), that she bought a changing table and said it was from me.

>WTF?

>

>When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer

>exhaustion of listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so

>many things that I could say to her, and not one of them is

>worth saying because she does not understand logic. I am at a

>loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help

>and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who

>lives in a completely different reality. I've been to therapy,

>but as we all know, therapy can only help you change yourself

>(I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my depression, I

>changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle

>hasn't had the effect on my life it would have just a year or

>two ago). Who could navigate a conversation with this woman?

>She will alter reality and normalcy, taking back and bending

>things she said and things I didn't say, all because the only

>thing she understands is that she's not getting something she

>wants. If you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even

>sending this out into the internet has been something of a

>relief.

>

--

Katrina

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Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

I'm sorry you've had to put up with this argument for so long.

This sounds so typical of a nada. Everything always has to be

about them. Telling the story to people who understands helps,

doesn't it?

In your situation, I think I'd take her saying that she was done

as a good excuse to drop out of contact with her. If that's what

she says she wants, let her have it. If you do, my guess is that

she'll eventually contact you wanting something and acting like

she doesn't remember saying that she was done with you. That's

how my nada acts.

At 10:36 AM 11/19/2010 Jgar wrote:

>Part One

>Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long

>disagreement right now, and I just need to be able to put all

>this somewhere. It's a small issue in itself, but it's set in

>such a long context of situations just like it, and she has

>been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection

>or liking for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so

>I understand if it's just too much for an internet board.

>

>She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower.

>Because of our mothers' relationship, I basically felt

>obligated to comply when this girl and her mother invited me to

>stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that point in

>my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone

>to say no.

>

>I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times

>I saw her on breaks from my college trying to nod and smile

>while she told me about her boyfriend in jail and showed me the

>pictures of herself in her underwear she was sending to him. If

>not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob, then

>I'm a snob.

>

>Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I

>didn't want to go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

>

>

>Part Two

>She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when

>she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

>woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she " sees all the other

>daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the school play

>without a mommy. "

>

>Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told

>her I appreciated her sharing her feelings with me, and said it

>must be awful to feel that way. I learned long ago to never

>tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell crazy

>people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those

>daughters live with their mothers because they got pregnant in

>their late teens and can't support themselves financially,

>whereas I live two hours away and visit her because I like

>seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

>that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind,

>weddings, too) and still wasn't sure why she thought I needed

>to be there.

>

>Part Three

>She called me in late September to tell me that she had been

>named godmother to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be

>planning the shower. I said, " Mom, I thought we already talked

>about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we agreed you were

>going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she

>told me that this was very important to her, that she didn't

>even know what to say, but that she was not getting over this

>any time soon. Then she hung up.

>

>Part Four

>She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I

>did weekly just to remind her that I still loved her and that

>my not coming didn't have anything to do with that. We

>exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

>

> " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther

>to accompany me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you

>have a life),however this event was of particular

>importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

>understand and just don't give a shit about me and my

>feelings or is it something else? I cried tring to figure out

>what it is that I did to you to get to the point where I have

>to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If I can't

>have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function

>that I'm helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you

>at all...I would have hoped that when on the few occasions I

>ask for something for ME and say it is important to ME I'm met

>with such BS. I was after all for many years the only one

>always there for you... "

>

>It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the

>few occasions " that she has asked something from me. She asks

>for things a lot. I wrote back and told her it was not my

>intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not going. I

>also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of

>reasoning with her.

>

>Part Five

>She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I

>tell her I'm confused, as this is the third time I've said no.

>She repeats that she's not getting over this, and if I don't

>go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before. However, she

>STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have

>it, the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's

>wedding. She calls me the day of the shower.

>

> " You're not coming today? "

>

> " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

>

> " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people

>because I'm done. It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck

>yourself. I told you this was important to me, but it's over,

>so you just keep walking. "

>

>Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get

>around to it. I spent half an hour doing little more than

>grunting in response to her telling me how I never go out of my

>way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone. She also told

>me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I

>had a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew

>it), that she bought a changing table and said it was from me.

>WTF?

>

>When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer

>exhaustion of listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so

>many things that I could say to her, and not one of them is

>worth saying because she does not understand logic. I am at a

>loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help

>and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who

>lives in a completely different reality. I've been to therapy,

>but as we all know, therapy can only help you change yourself

>(I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my depression, I

>changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle

>hasn't had the effect on my life it would have just a year or

>two ago). Who could navigate a conversation with this woman?

>She will alter reality and normalcy, taking back and bending

>things she said and things I didn't say, all because the only

>thing she understands is that she's not getting something she

>wants. If you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even

>sending this out into the internet has been something of a

>relief.

>

--

Katrina

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Posted
Posted

i too was made to go to e-v e-r-y single function possible for other

people...but in the decade that i spent training and competing in figure

skating, she didn't come once to support me/see me/cheer me on.

\

i find that very curious.

my mom is older now, and still asks me to attend trivial family events...i get

twisted in my gut. she is very interested in her grandchildrens' activities and

goes to games, school concerts, etc for them.

why not for me?

i still have a hard time with that when i think of it.

my kids can count on me to be wherever they perform, play...or just pick their

noses.

i was so isolated and alone.

amy

Exhausted ( Very Long)

Part One

Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long disagreement right now, and

I just need to be able to put all this somewhere. It's a small issue in itself,

but it's set in such a long context of situations just like it, and she has been

so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection or liking for her to

carry me through it. It's a long story, so I understand if it's just too much

for an internet board.

She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower. Because of our

mothers' relationship, I basically felt obligated to comply when this girl and

her mother invited me to stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that

point in my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone to say

no.

I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times I saw her on

breaks from my college trying to nod and smile while she told me about her

boyfriend in jail and showed me the pictures of herself in her underwear she was

sending to him. If not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob,

then I'm a snob.

Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I didn't want to go.

Her response was, " We'll see. "

Part Two

She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when she hangs out

with this woman/daughter pair, and another woman/daughter pair friend of hers,

she " sees all the other daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the

school play without a mommy. "

Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told her I appreciated

her sharing her feelings with me, and said it must be awful to feel that way. I

learned long ago to never tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell

crazy people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those daughters live

with their mothers because they got pregnant in their late teens and can't

support themselves financially, whereas I live two hours away and visit her

because I like seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind, weddings, too) and

still wasn't sure why she thought I needed to be there.

Part Three

She called me in late September to tell me that she had been named godmother to

the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be planning the shower. I said, " Mom,

I thought we already talked about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we agreed

you were going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she told me

that this was very important to her, that she didn't even know what to say, but

that she was not getting over this any time soon. Then she hung up.

Part Four

She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I did weekly just

to remind her that I still loved her and that my not coming didn't have anything

to do with that. We exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

" I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther to accompany

me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you have a life),however this event

was of particular importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

understand and just don't give a shit about me and my feelings or is it

something else? I cried tring to figure out what it is that I did to you to get

to the point where I have to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If

I can't have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function that I'm

helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you at all...I would have

hoped that when on the few occasions I ask for something for ME and say it is

important to ME I'm met with such BS. I was after all for many years the only

one always there for you... "

It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the few occasions "

that she has asked something from me. She asks for things a lot. I wrote back

and told her it was not my intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not

going. I also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of reasoning with

her.

Part Five

She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I tell her I'm

confused, as this is the third time I've said no. She repeats that she's not

getting over this, and if I don't go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before.

However, she STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have it,

the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's wedding. She calls me

the day of the shower.

" You're not coming today? "

" No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

" Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people because I'm done.

It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck yourself. I told you this was

important to me, but it's over, so you just keep walking. "

Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get around to it. I

spent half an hour doing little more than grunting in response to her telling me

how I never go out of my way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone. She

also told me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I had a

legit reason for not being there, and the family knew it), that she bought a

changing table and said it was from me. WTF?

When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer exhaustion of listening

to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so many things that I could say to her, and

not one of them is worth saying because she does not understand logic. I am at a

loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help and no

instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who lives in a completely

different reality. I've been to therapy, but as we all know, therapy can only

help you change yourself (I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my

depression, I changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle hasn't

had the effect on my life it would have just a year or two ago). Who could

navigate a conversation with this woman? She will alter reality and normalcy,

taking back and bending things she said and things I didn't say, all because the

only thing she understands is that she's not getting something she wants. If

you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even sending this o ut into the

internet has been something of a relief.

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Posted
Posted

i too was made to go to e-v e-r-y single function possible for other

people...but in the decade that i spent training and competing in figure

skating, she didn't come once to support me/see me/cheer me on.

\

i find that very curious.

my mom is older now, and still asks me to attend trivial family events...i get

twisted in my gut. she is very interested in her grandchildrens' activities and

goes to games, school concerts, etc for them.

why not for me?

i still have a hard time with that when i think of it.

my kids can count on me to be wherever they perform, play...or just pick their

noses.

i was so isolated and alone.

amy

Exhausted ( Very Long)

Part One

Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long disagreement right now, and

I just need to be able to put all this somewhere. It's a small issue in itself,

but it's set in such a long context of situations just like it, and she has been

so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection or liking for her to

carry me through it. It's a long story, so I understand if it's just too much

for an internet board.

She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower. Because of our

mothers' relationship, I basically felt obligated to comply when this girl and

her mother invited me to stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that

point in my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone to say

no.

I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times I saw her on

breaks from my college trying to nod and smile while she told me about her

boyfriend in jail and showed me the pictures of herself in her underwear she was

sending to him. If not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob,

then I'm a snob.

Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I didn't want to go.

Her response was, " We'll see. "

Part Two

She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when she hangs out

with this woman/daughter pair, and another woman/daughter pair friend of hers,

she " sees all the other daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the

school play without a mommy. "

Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told her I appreciated

her sharing her feelings with me, and said it must be awful to feel that way. I

learned long ago to never tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell

crazy people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those daughters live

with their mothers because they got pregnant in their late teens and can't

support themselves financially, whereas I live two hours away and visit her

because I like seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind, weddings, too) and

still wasn't sure why she thought I needed to be there.

Part Three

She called me in late September to tell me that she had been named godmother to

the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be planning the shower. I said, " Mom,

I thought we already talked about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we agreed

you were going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she told me

that this was very important to her, that she didn't even know what to say, but

that she was not getting over this any time soon. Then she hung up.

Part Four

She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I did weekly just

to remind her that I still loved her and that my not coming didn't have anything

to do with that. We exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

" I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther to accompany

me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you have a life),however this event

was of particular importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

understand and just don't give a shit about me and my feelings or is it

something else? I cried tring to figure out what it is that I did to you to get

to the point where I have to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If

I can't have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function that I'm

helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you at all...I would have

hoped that when on the few occasions I ask for something for ME and say it is

important to ME I'm met with such BS. I was after all for many years the only

one always there for you... "

It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the few occasions "

that she has asked something from me. She asks for things a lot. I wrote back

and told her it was not my intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not

going. I also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of reasoning with

her.

Part Five

She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I tell her I'm

confused, as this is the third time I've said no. She repeats that she's not

getting over this, and if I don't go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before.

However, she STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have it,

the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's wedding. She calls me

the day of the shower.

" You're not coming today? "

" No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

" Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people because I'm done.

It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck yourself. I told you this was

important to me, but it's over, so you just keep walking. "

Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get around to it. I

spent half an hour doing little more than grunting in response to her telling me

how I never go out of my way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone. She

also told me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I had a

legit reason for not being there, and the family knew it), that she bought a

changing table and said it was from me. WTF?

When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer exhaustion of listening

to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so many things that I could say to her, and

not one of them is worth saying because she does not understand logic. I am at a

loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help and no

instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who lives in a completely

different reality. I've been to therapy, but as we all know, therapy can only

help you change yourself (I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my

depression, I changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle hasn't

had the effect on my life it would have just a year or two ago). Who could

navigate a conversation with this woman? She will alter reality and normalcy,

taking back and bending things she said and things I didn't say, all because the

only thing she understands is that she's not getting something she wants. If

you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even sending this o ut into the

internet has been something of a relief.

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Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

Wow! Thank you so much for posting this. I can totally relate to how you are

feeling. Kudos to you for taking the first step in posting this. I am so glad

that I found this group. It has helped me a lot when it came to dealing with my

mom. I encourage you to read other posts and continue to post your feelings.

My mom has never been diagnosed with having BPD. However, after doing some

research and reading other group members stories, I am convinced she is. I was

afraid that I would not be welcome here because I could not say that I have a

BPD mother. I was also afraid that I would not be welcome here because I

thought that I had BPD too. Turns out, I only have the fleas and am on my way

to breaking free. Posting to this group has been one of the smartest decisions

I have ever made. I too seek therapy. I must stay that I have received more

" therapy " from reading and posting in the past few years, than I have received

in 2 years seeing a counselor. Please continue posting as we (the group)need you

as much as you need us. Don't worry about the length. Just speak what is in

your heart.

I grew up doing everything my mom told me to do. I never questioned. Even if I

didn't want to do it, I did it anyway because she was my mom. As long as I did

what she requested, I was the apple of her eye. When I didn't do what she

wanted, I was her enemy. And she would continue to try to guilt trip me into

doing things and never let it go until I gave in. I only wanted to be loved by

her with no strings attached. I have spent most of my life (up until one week

ago when I found this post and I am 35 1/2) putting her needs before mine, if I

even met my needs. By the time I got to my needs I was too exhausted filling

hers that I denied mine.

I am finally able to see that I do not have to live this way any more. I want

to change. I want to break away. I know it is going to take time, but I am

willing to invest what it takes to be happy. I know that it is going to be a

long journey, but I also know that I have support from the people here. It also

helps to have the support of my husband. But the support from people who know

what I am going through helps immensely.

Whatever you decide, you will not be alone.

>

> Part One

> Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long disagreement right now,

and I just need to be able to put all this somewhere. It's a small issue in

itself, but it's set in such a long context of situations just like it, and she

has been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection or liking

for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so I understand if it's just

too much for an internet board.

>

> She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower. Because of our

mothers' relationship, I basically felt obligated to comply when this girl and

her mother invited me to stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that

point in my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone to say

no.

>

> I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times I saw her on

breaks from my college trying to nod and smile while she told me about her

boyfriend in jail and showed me the pictures of herself in her underwear she was

sending to him. If not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob,

then I'm a snob.

>

> Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I didn't want to

go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

>

>

> Part Two

> She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when she hangs out

with this woman/daughter pair, and another woman/daughter pair friend of hers,

she " sees all the other daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the

school play without a mommy. "

>

> Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told her I appreciated

her sharing her feelings with me, and said it must be awful to feel that way. I

learned long ago to never tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell

crazy people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those daughters live

with their mothers because they got pregnant in their late teens and can't

support themselves financially, whereas I live two hours away and visit her

because I like seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind, weddings, too) and

still wasn't sure why she thought I needed to be there.

>

> Part Three

> She called me in late September to tell me that she had been named godmother

to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be planning the shower. I said,

" Mom, I thought we already talked about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we

agreed you were going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she told

me that this was very important to her, that she didn't even know what to say,

but that she was not getting over this any time soon. Then she hung up.

>

> Part Four

> She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I did weekly

just to remind her that I still loved her and that my not coming didn't have

anything to do with that. We exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

>

> " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther to accompany

me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you have a life),however this event

was of particular importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

understand and just don't give a shit about me and my feelings or is it

something else? I cried tring to figure out what it is that I did to you to get

to the point where I have to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If

I can't have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function that I'm

helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you at all...I would have

hoped that when on the few occasions I ask for something for ME and say it is

important to ME I'm met with such BS. I was after all for many years the only

one always there for you... "

>

> It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the few occasions "

that she has asked something from me. She asks for things a lot. I wrote back

and told her it was not my intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not

going. I also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of reasoning with

her.

>

> Part Five

> She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I tell her I'm

confused, as this is the third time I've said no. She repeats that she's not

getting over this, and if I don't go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before.

However, she STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have it,

the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's wedding. She calls me

the day of the shower.

>

> " You're not coming today? "

>

> " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

>

> " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people because I'm done.

It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck yourself. I told you this was

important to me, but it's over, so you just keep walking. "

>

> Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get around to it.

I spent half an hour doing little more than grunting in response to her telling

me how I never go out of my way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone.

She also told me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I had

a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew it), that she bought a

changing table and said it was from me. WTF?

>

> When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer exhaustion of

listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so many things that I could say

to her, and not one of them is worth saying because she does not understand

logic. I am at a loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help

and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who lives in a

completely different reality. I've been to therapy, but as we all know, therapy

can only help you change yourself (I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my

depression, I changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle hasn't

had the effect on my life it would have just a year or two ago). Who could

navigate a conversation with this woman? She will alter reality and normalcy,

taking back and bending things she said and things I didn't say, all because the

only thing she understands is that she's not getting something she wants. If

you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even sending this out into the

internet has been something of a relief.

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

Wow! Thank you so much for posting this. I can totally relate to how you are

feeling. Kudos to you for taking the first step in posting this. I am so glad

that I found this group. It has helped me a lot when it came to dealing with my

mom. I encourage you to read other posts and continue to post your feelings.

My mom has never been diagnosed with having BPD. However, after doing some

research and reading other group members stories, I am convinced she is. I was

afraid that I would not be welcome here because I could not say that I have a

BPD mother. I was also afraid that I would not be welcome here because I

thought that I had BPD too. Turns out, I only have the fleas and am on my way

to breaking free. Posting to this group has been one of the smartest decisions

I have ever made. I too seek therapy. I must stay that I have received more

" therapy " from reading and posting in the past few years, than I have received

in 2 years seeing a counselor. Please continue posting as we (the group)need you

as much as you need us. Don't worry about the length. Just speak what is in

your heart.

I grew up doing everything my mom told me to do. I never questioned. Even if I

didn't want to do it, I did it anyway because she was my mom. As long as I did

what she requested, I was the apple of her eye. When I didn't do what she

wanted, I was her enemy. And she would continue to try to guilt trip me into

doing things and never let it go until I gave in. I only wanted to be loved by

her with no strings attached. I have spent most of my life (up until one week

ago when I found this post and I am 35 1/2) putting her needs before mine, if I

even met my needs. By the time I got to my needs I was too exhausted filling

hers that I denied mine.

I am finally able to see that I do not have to live this way any more. I want

to change. I want to break away. I know it is going to take time, but I am

willing to invest what it takes to be happy. I know that it is going to be a

long journey, but I also know that I have support from the people here. It also

helps to have the support of my husband. But the support from people who know

what I am going through helps immensely.

Whatever you decide, you will not be alone.

>

> Part One

> Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long disagreement right now,

and I just need to be able to put all this somewhere. It's a small issue in

itself, but it's set in such a long context of situations just like it, and she

has been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection or liking

for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so I understand if it's just

too much for an internet board.

>

> She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower. Because of our

mothers' relationship, I basically felt obligated to comply when this girl and

her mother invited me to stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that

point in my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone to say

no.

>

> I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times I saw her on

breaks from my college trying to nod and smile while she told me about her

boyfriend in jail and showed me the pictures of herself in her underwear she was

sending to him. If not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob,

then I'm a snob.

>

> Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I didn't want to

go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

>

>

> Part Two

> She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when she hangs out

with this woman/daughter pair, and another woman/daughter pair friend of hers,

she " sees all the other daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the

school play without a mommy. "

>

> Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told her I appreciated

her sharing her feelings with me, and said it must be awful to feel that way. I

learned long ago to never tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell

crazy people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those daughters live

with their mothers because they got pregnant in their late teens and can't

support themselves financially, whereas I live two hours away and visit her

because I like seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind, weddings, too) and

still wasn't sure why she thought I needed to be there.

>

> Part Three

> She called me in late September to tell me that she had been named godmother

to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be planning the shower. I said,

" Mom, I thought we already talked about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we

agreed you were going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she told

me that this was very important to her, that she didn't even know what to say,

but that she was not getting over this any time soon. Then she hung up.

>

> Part Four

> She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I did weekly

just to remind her that I still loved her and that my not coming didn't have

anything to do with that. We exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

>

> " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther to accompany

me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you have a life),however this event

was of particular importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

understand and just don't give a shit about me and my feelings or is it

something else? I cried tring to figure out what it is that I did to you to get

to the point where I have to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If

I can't have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function that I'm

helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you at all...I would have

hoped that when on the few occasions I ask for something for ME and say it is

important to ME I'm met with such BS. I was after all for many years the only

one always there for you... "

>

> It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the few occasions "

that she has asked something from me. She asks for things a lot. I wrote back

and told her it was not my intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not

going. I also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of reasoning with

her.

>

> Part Five

> She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I tell her I'm

confused, as this is the third time I've said no. She repeats that she's not

getting over this, and if I don't go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before.

However, she STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have it,

the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's wedding. She calls me

the day of the shower.

>

> " You're not coming today? "

>

> " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

>

> " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people because I'm done.

It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck yourself. I told you this was

important to me, but it's over, so you just keep walking. "

>

> Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get around to it.

I spent half an hour doing little more than grunting in response to her telling

me how I never go out of my way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone.

She also told me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I had

a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew it), that she bought a

changing table and said it was from me. WTF?

>

> When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer exhaustion of

listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so many things that I could say

to her, and not one of them is worth saying because she does not understand

logic. I am at a loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help

and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who lives in a

completely different reality. I've been to therapy, but as we all know, therapy

can only help you change yourself (I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my

depression, I changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle hasn't

had the effect on my life it would have just a year or two ago). Who could

navigate a conversation with this woman? She will alter reality and normalcy,

taking back and bending things she said and things I didn't say, all because the

only thing she understands is that she's not getting something she wants. If

you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even sending this out into the

internet has been something of a relief.

>

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Posted

OMG, if I thought she meant it when she said she was done I'd be dancing for

joy! This has happened a million times before. Even when she says she doesn't

want to talk, she calls, emails, and passes messages to me through my dad. It's

actually more hellish and involves more contact than when we're actually

" talking " !

No, she says she done, but even she's aware that she doesn't mean it. I think by

this point, it's just habit with her. I've been NC before (10 months), and it

was a constant exercise in deleting messages and emails, screening phone calls,

and pleading with my dad and brother to please talk about something, anything

else than Mom.

She will never just let it go. I'm pretty resigned to the fact that staying in

contact is, ironically, the best way to minimize any hostile exposure to her. My

post was mainly about how I just don't know what to even say to her anymore.

> >Part One

> >Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long

> >disagreement right now, and I just need to be able to put all

> >this somewhere. It's a small issue in itself, but it's set in

> >such a long context of situations just like it, and she has

> >been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection

> >or liking for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so

> >I understand if it's just too much for an internet board.

> >

> >She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower.

> >Because of our mothers' relationship, I basically felt

> >obligated to comply when this girl and her mother invited me to

> >stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that point in

> >my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone

> >to say no.

> >

> >I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times

> >I saw her on breaks from my college trying to nod and smile

> >while she told me about her boyfriend in jail and showed me the

> >pictures of herself in her underwear she was sending to him. If

> >not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob, then

> >I'm a snob.

> >

> >Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I

> >didn't want to go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

> >

> >

> >Part Two

> >She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when

> >she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

> >woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she " sees all the other

> >daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the school play

> >without a mommy. "

> >

> >Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told

> >her I appreciated her sharing her feelings with me, and said it

> >must be awful to feel that way. I learned long ago to never

> >tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell crazy

> >people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those

> >daughters live with their mothers because they got pregnant in

> >their late teens and can't support themselves financially,

> >whereas I live two hours away and visit her because I like

> >seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

> >that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind,

> >weddings, too) and still wasn't sure why she thought I needed

> >to be there.

> >

> >Part Three

> >She called me in late September to tell me that she had been

> >named godmother to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be

> >planning the shower. I said, " Mom, I thought we already talked

> >about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we agreed you were

> >going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she

> >told me that this was very important to her, that she didn't

> >even know what to say, but that she was not getting over this

> >any time soon. Then she hung up.

> >

> >Part Four

> >She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I

> >did weekly just to remind her that I still loved her and that

> >my not coming didn't have anything to do with that. We

> >exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

> >

> > " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther

> >to accompany me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you

> >have a life),however this event was of particular

> >importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

> >understand and just don't give a shit about me and my

> >feelings or is it something else? I cried tring to figure out

> >what it is that I did to you to get to the point where I have

> >to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If I can't

> >have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function

> >that I'm helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you

> >at all...I would have hoped that when on the few occasions I

> >ask for something for ME and say it is important to ME I'm met

> >with such BS. I was after all for many years the only one

> >always there for you... "

> >

> >It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the

> >few occasions " that she has asked something from me. She asks

> >for things a lot. I wrote back and told her it was not my

> >intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not going. I

> >also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of

> >reasoning with her.

> >

> >Part Five

> >She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I

> >tell her I'm confused, as this is the third time I've said no.

> >She repeats that she's not getting over this, and if I don't

> >go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before. However, she

> >STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have

> >it, the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's

> >wedding. She calls me the day of the shower.

> >

> > " You're not coming today? "

> >

> > " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

> >

> > " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people

> >because I'm done. It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck

> >yourself. I told you this was important to me, but it's over,

> >so you just keep walking. "

> >

> >Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get

> >around to it. I spent half an hour doing little more than

> >grunting in response to her telling me how I never go out of my

> >way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone. She also told

> >me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I

> >had a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew

> >it), that she bought a changing table and said it was from me.

> >WTF?

> >

> >When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer

> >exhaustion of listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so

> >many things that I could say to her, and not one of them is

> >worth saying because she does not understand logic. I am at a

> >loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help

> >and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who

> >lives in a completely different reality. I've been to therapy,

> >but as we all know, therapy can only help you change yourself

> >(I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my depression, I

> >changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle

> >hasn't had the effect on my life it would have just a year or

> >two ago). Who could navigate a conversation with this woman?

> >She will alter reality and normalcy, taking back and bending

> >things she said and things I didn't say, all because the only

> >thing she understands is that she's not getting something she

> >wants. If you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even

> >sending this out into the internet has been something of a

> >relief.

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

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Posted
Posted

OMG, if I thought she meant it when she said she was done I'd be dancing for

joy! This has happened a million times before. Even when she says she doesn't

want to talk, she calls, emails, and passes messages to me through my dad. It's

actually more hellish and involves more contact than when we're actually

" talking " !

No, she says she done, but even she's aware that she doesn't mean it. I think by

this point, it's just habit with her. I've been NC before (10 months), and it

was a constant exercise in deleting messages and emails, screening phone calls,

and pleading with my dad and brother to please talk about something, anything

else than Mom.

She will never just let it go. I'm pretty resigned to the fact that staying in

contact is, ironically, the best way to minimize any hostile exposure to her. My

post was mainly about how I just don't know what to even say to her anymore.

> >Part One

> >Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long

> >disagreement right now, and I just need to be able to put all

> >this somewhere. It's a small issue in itself, but it's set in

> >such a long context of situations just like it, and she has

> >been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection

> >or liking for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so

> >I understand if it's just too much for an internet board.

> >

> >She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower.

> >Because of our mothers' relationship, I basically felt

> >obligated to comply when this girl and her mother invited me to

> >stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that point in

> >my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone

> >to say no.

> >

> >I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times

> >I saw her on breaks from my college trying to nod and smile

> >while she told me about her boyfriend in jail and showed me the

> >pictures of herself in her underwear she was sending to him. If

> >not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob, then

> >I'm a snob.

> >

> >Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I

> >didn't want to go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

> >

> >

> >Part Two

> >She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when

> >she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

> >woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she " sees all the other

> >daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the school play

> >without a mommy. "

> >

> >Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told

> >her I appreciated her sharing her feelings with me, and said it

> >must be awful to feel that way. I learned long ago to never

> >tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell crazy

> >people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those

> >daughters live with their mothers because they got pregnant in

> >their late teens and can't support themselves financially,

> >whereas I live two hours away and visit her because I like

> >seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

> >that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind,

> >weddings, too) and still wasn't sure why she thought I needed

> >to be there.

> >

> >Part Three

> >She called me in late September to tell me that she had been

> >named godmother to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be

> >planning the shower. I said, " Mom, I thought we already talked

> >about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we agreed you were

> >going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she

> >told me that this was very important to her, that she didn't

> >even know what to say, but that she was not getting over this

> >any time soon. Then she hung up.

> >

> >Part Four

> >She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I

> >did weekly just to remind her that I still loved her and that

> >my not coming didn't have anything to do with that. We

> >exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

> >

> > " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther

> >to accompany me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you

> >have a life),however this event was of particular

> >importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

> >understand and just don't give a shit about me and my

> >feelings or is it something else? I cried tring to figure out

> >what it is that I did to you to get to the point where I have

> >to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If I can't

> >have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function

> >that I'm helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you

> >at all...I would have hoped that when on the few occasions I

> >ask for something for ME and say it is important to ME I'm met

> >with such BS. I was after all for many years the only one

> >always there for you... "

> >

> >It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the

> >few occasions " that she has asked something from me. She asks

> >for things a lot. I wrote back and told her it was not my

> >intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not going. I

> >also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of

> >reasoning with her.

> >

> >Part Five

> >She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I

> >tell her I'm confused, as this is the third time I've said no.

> >She repeats that she's not getting over this, and if I don't

> >go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before. However, she

> >STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have

> >it, the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's

> >wedding. She calls me the day of the shower.

> >

> > " You're not coming today? "

> >

> > " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

> >

> > " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people

> >because I'm done. It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck

> >yourself. I told you this was important to me, but it's over,

> >so you just keep walking. "

> >

> >Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get

> >around to it. I spent half an hour doing little more than

> >grunting in response to her telling me how I never go out of my

> >way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone. She also told

> >me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I

> >had a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew

> >it), that she bought a changing table and said it was from me.

> >WTF?

> >

> >When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer

> >exhaustion of listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so

> >many things that I could say to her, and not one of them is

> >worth saying because she does not understand logic. I am at a

> >loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help

> >and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who

> >lives in a completely different reality. I've been to therapy,

> >but as we all know, therapy can only help you change yourself

> >(I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my depression, I

> >changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle

> >hasn't had the effect on my life it would have just a year or

> >two ago). Who could navigate a conversation with this woman?

> >She will alter reality and normalcy, taking back and bending

> >things she said and things I didn't say, all because the only

> >thing she understands is that she's not getting something she

> >wants. If you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even

> >sending this out into the internet has been something of a

> >relief.

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

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Posted
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I understand what you mean about staying in contact being the

way to minimize hostile behavior. That's pretty much my

situation too. Since I have my own business and advertise it on

a weekly basis, I can't hide from my nada. Since I can't hide, I

find it easier to control our contact myself rather than trying

and failing to avoid her. She causes too much drama in my life

if I don't keep an eye on what she's doing. She's gotten better

in recent years but I don't trust her not to be scheming behind

my back if I don't make sure that she continues to see me as

being useful to her.

At 11:37 AM 11/19/2010 Jgar wrote:

>OMG, if I thought she meant it when she said she was done I'd

>be dancing for joy! This has happened a million times before.

>Even when she says she doesn't want to talk, she calls, emails,

>and passes messages to me through my dad. It's actually more

>hellish and involves more contact than when we're actually

> " talking " !

>

>No, she says she done, but even she's aware that she doesn't

>mean it. I think by this point, it's just habit with her. I've

>been NC before (10 months), and it was a constant exercise in

>deleting messages and emails, screening phone calls, and

>pleading with my dad and brother to please talk about

>something, anything else than Mom.

>

>She will never just let it go. I'm pretty resigned to the fact

>that staying in contact is, ironically, the best way to

>minimize any hostile exposure to her. My post was mainly about

>how I just don't know what to even say to her anymore.

--

Katrina

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Posted

(((((Jgar)))))

I can so understand and relate to how exhausted you are about trying to have a

rational relationship with an irrational person.

In this particular case, it reminds me of: " Can I have a cookie? " " No " " Can I

have a cookie? " " No " " Can I have a cookie? " " No " repeated until you want to tear

your hair out.

Then when its clear that the cookie is not forthcoming, a tantrum ensues.

I decided that I had no basis for a relationship with my nada when I learned

that she'd rewritten our (my) history so thoroughly that it was unrecognizable

to me. Within the last few years (since she's been in therapy) nada has

claimed that she never hit Sister or me with a belt, never raged at us, and in

fact she'd always been the perfect mother to us (um... no); then she more

recently has claimed that my dad used to beat her (!?) (um... hell no).

When I learned from nada's sisters (through my Sister) that nada's version of

their growing-up years was so off-kilter that it was bewildering to her sibs,

it didn't surprise me that much. My aunts were poleaxed with astonishment that

nada had indoctrinated Sister and me that nada and her sisters had grown up

afraid of their father, who nada claimed had a horrible temper and beat them

with a leather strop when enraged, and that their mother favored the oldest sib,

neglected my nada, and rejected her. And my nada frequently vilified her older

sister, whom she loathed.

I myself had never experienced anything but kindness and loving behaviors from

my maternal grandparents and both my aunts and their families; I had already

noticed the *big* disconnect between my mother's claims and the reality I myself

perceived, before. The reality was/is that my nada is the only person in my

life who ever screamed horrible verbal abuse at Sister, dad, me, and at her own

much-loathed older sister, and *nobody ever stood up to my nada and told her to

knock it off.* Nobody. She had all of us cowed.

The bottom line is that my mother is living and has always lived in a distorted

fantasy version of reality in which she is the perpetual victim: in nada's

world nada's parents hated her, beat her and rejected her, preferring her

much-loathed older sister; nada's husband was cheating on her all the time and

beat her; nada's first child rejected her as a tiny infant, and her children

are disappointments: never loving and attentive enough and never becoming rich

and famous... yet nada always remained the perfect wife and mother.

So how can I have a relationship with someone who's version of reality is about

80 degrees skewed off of true North?

Well, I can't. Its like trying to have a relationship with the Queen of Hearts

in " Alice In Wonderland " , a fantasy creature ruling her fantasy world where all

ways are the Queen's way, and who will order your head cut off for no particular

reason, at any moment, based on her whim. (In an earlier post, I shared that my

Sister's psychologist said that our mother was the equivalent of a toxic waste

dump to my Sister's mental health: dangerous, and to be avoided.)

Its heart-wrenchingly sad, but that's the truth. In my opinion.

I can assist my sister in making sure that our nada isn't destitute, but, I

can't have a relationship with her. In order to do that, I'd have to give up

being me, and I'm not willing to sacrifice myself to my nada (like I did when I

was enmeshed with her), nor am I willing to attack and destroy my nada.

So for me, No Contact (well, virtual No Contact) is the option that works.

I understand your pain.

-Annie

>

> Part One

> Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long disagreement right now,

and I just need to be able to put all this somewhere. It's a small issue in

itself, but it's set in such a long context of situations just like it, and she

has been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection or liking

for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so I understand if it's just

too much for an internet board.

>

> She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower. Because of our

mothers' relationship, I basically felt obligated to comply when this girl and

her mother invited me to stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that

point in my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone to say

no.

>

> I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times I saw her on

breaks from my college trying to nod and smile while she told me about her

boyfriend in jail and showed me the pictures of herself in her underwear she was

sending to him. If not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob,

then I'm a snob.

>

> Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I didn't want to

go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

>

>

> Part Two

> She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when she hangs out

with this woman/daughter pair, and another woman/daughter pair friend of hers,

she " sees all the other daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the

school play without a mommy. "

>

> Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told her I appreciated

her sharing her feelings with me, and said it must be awful to feel that way. I

learned long ago to never tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell

crazy people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those daughters live

with their mothers because they got pregnant in their late teens and can't

support themselves financially, whereas I live two hours away and visit her

because I like seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind, weddings, too) and

still wasn't sure why she thought I needed to be there.

>

> Part Three

> She called me in late September to tell me that she had been named godmother

to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be planning the shower. I said,

" Mom, I thought we already talked about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we

agreed you were going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she told

me that this was very important to her, that she didn't even know what to say,

but that she was not getting over this any time soon. Then she hung up.

>

> Part Four

> She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I did weekly

just to remind her that I still loved her and that my not coming didn't have

anything to do with that. We exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

>

> " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther to accompany

me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you have a life),however this event

was of particular importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

understand and just don't give a shit about me and my feelings or is it

something else? I cried tring to figure out what it is that I did to you to get

to the point where I have to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If

I can't have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function that I'm

helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you at all...I would have

hoped that when on the few occasions I ask for something for ME and say it is

important to ME I'm met with such BS. I was after all for many years the only

one always there for you... "

>

> It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the few occasions "

that she has asked something from me. She asks for things a lot. I wrote back

and told her it was not my intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not

going. I also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of reasoning with

her.

>

> Part Five

> She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I tell her I'm

confused, as this is the third time I've said no. She repeats that she's not

getting over this, and if I don't go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before.

However, she STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have it,

the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's wedding. She calls me

the day of the shower.

>

> " You're not coming today? "

>

> " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

>

> " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people because I'm done.

It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck yourself. I told you this was

important to me, but it's over, so you just keep walking. "

>

> Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get around to it.

I spent half an hour doing little more than grunting in response to her telling

me how I never go out of my way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone.

She also told me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I had

a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew it), that she bought a

changing table and said it was from me. WTF?

>

> When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer exhaustion of

listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so many things that I could say

to her, and not one of them is worth saying because she does not understand

logic. I am at a loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help

and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who lives in a

completely different reality. I've been to therapy, but as we all know, therapy

can only help you change yourself (I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my

depression, I changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle hasn't

had the effect on my life it would have just a year or two ago). Who could

navigate a conversation with this woman? She will alter reality and normalcy,

taking back and bending things she said and things I didn't say, all because the

only thing she understands is that she's not getting something she wants. If

you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even sending this out into the

internet has been something of a relief.

>

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Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

(((((Jgar)))))

I can so understand and relate to how exhausted you are about trying to have a

rational relationship with an irrational person.

In this particular case, it reminds me of: " Can I have a cookie? " " No " " Can I

have a cookie? " " No " " Can I have a cookie? " " No " repeated until you want to tear

your hair out.

Then when its clear that the cookie is not forthcoming, a tantrum ensues.

I decided that I had no basis for a relationship with my nada when I learned

that she'd rewritten our (my) history so thoroughly that it was unrecognizable

to me. Within the last few years (since she's been in therapy) nada has

claimed that she never hit Sister or me with a belt, never raged at us, and in

fact she'd always been the perfect mother to us (um... no); then she more

recently has claimed that my dad used to beat her (!?) (um... hell no).

When I learned from nada's sisters (through my Sister) that nada's version of

their growing-up years was so off-kilter that it was bewildering to her sibs,

it didn't surprise me that much. My aunts were poleaxed with astonishment that

nada had indoctrinated Sister and me that nada and her sisters had grown up

afraid of their father, who nada claimed had a horrible temper and beat them

with a leather strop when enraged, and that their mother favored the oldest sib,

neglected my nada, and rejected her. And my nada frequently vilified her older

sister, whom she loathed.

I myself had never experienced anything but kindness and loving behaviors from

my maternal grandparents and both my aunts and their families; I had already

noticed the *big* disconnect between my mother's claims and the reality I myself

perceived, before. The reality was/is that my nada is the only person in my

life who ever screamed horrible verbal abuse at Sister, dad, me, and at her own

much-loathed older sister, and *nobody ever stood up to my nada and told her to

knock it off.* Nobody. She had all of us cowed.

The bottom line is that my mother is living and has always lived in a distorted

fantasy version of reality in which she is the perpetual victim: in nada's

world nada's parents hated her, beat her and rejected her, preferring her

much-loathed older sister; nada's husband was cheating on her all the time and

beat her; nada's first child rejected her as a tiny infant, and her children

are disappointments: never loving and attentive enough and never becoming rich

and famous... yet nada always remained the perfect wife and mother.

So how can I have a relationship with someone who's version of reality is about

80 degrees skewed off of true North?

Well, I can't. Its like trying to have a relationship with the Queen of Hearts

in " Alice In Wonderland " , a fantasy creature ruling her fantasy world where all

ways are the Queen's way, and who will order your head cut off for no particular

reason, at any moment, based on her whim. (In an earlier post, I shared that my

Sister's psychologist said that our mother was the equivalent of a toxic waste

dump to my Sister's mental health: dangerous, and to be avoided.)

Its heart-wrenchingly sad, but that's the truth. In my opinion.

I can assist my sister in making sure that our nada isn't destitute, but, I

can't have a relationship with her. In order to do that, I'd have to give up

being me, and I'm not willing to sacrifice myself to my nada (like I did when I

was enmeshed with her), nor am I willing to attack and destroy my nada.

So for me, No Contact (well, virtual No Contact) is the option that works.

I understand your pain.

-Annie

>

> Part One

> Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long disagreement right now,

and I just need to be able to put all this somewhere. It's a small issue in

itself, but it's set in such a long context of situations just like it, and she

has been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection or liking

for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so I understand if it's just

too much for an internet board.

>

> She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower. Because of our

mothers' relationship, I basically felt obligated to comply when this girl and

her mother invited me to stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that

point in my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone to say

no.

>

> I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times I saw her on

breaks from my college trying to nod and smile while she told me about her

boyfriend in jail and showed me the pictures of herself in her underwear she was

sending to him. If not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob,

then I'm a snob.

>

> Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I didn't want to

go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

>

>

> Part Two

> She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when she hangs out

with this woman/daughter pair, and another woman/daughter pair friend of hers,

she " sees all the other daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the

school play without a mommy. "

>

> Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told her I appreciated

her sharing her feelings with me, and said it must be awful to feel that way. I

learned long ago to never tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell

crazy people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those daughters live

with their mothers because they got pregnant in their late teens and can't

support themselves financially, whereas I live two hours away and visit her

because I like seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind, weddings, too) and

still wasn't sure why she thought I needed to be there.

>

> Part Three

> She called me in late September to tell me that she had been named godmother

to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be planning the shower. I said,

" Mom, I thought we already talked about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we

agreed you were going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she told

me that this was very important to her, that she didn't even know what to say,

but that she was not getting over this any time soon. Then she hung up.

>

> Part Four

> She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I did weekly

just to remind her that I still loved her and that my not coming didn't have

anything to do with that. We exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

>

> " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther to accompany

me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you have a life),however this event

was of particular importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

understand and just don't give a shit about me and my feelings or is it

something else? I cried tring to figure out what it is that I did to you to get

to the point where I have to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If

I can't have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function that I'm

helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you at all...I would have

hoped that when on the few occasions I ask for something for ME and say it is

important to ME I'm met with such BS. I was after all for many years the only

one always there for you... "

>

> It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the few occasions "

that she has asked something from me. She asks for things a lot. I wrote back

and told her it was not my intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not

going. I also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of reasoning with

her.

>

> Part Five

> She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I tell her I'm

confused, as this is the third time I've said no. She repeats that she's not

getting over this, and if I don't go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before.

However, she STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have it,

the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's wedding. She calls me

the day of the shower.

>

> " You're not coming today? "

>

> " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

>

> " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people because I'm done.

It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck yourself. I told you this was

important to me, but it's over, so you just keep walking. "

>

> Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get around to it.

I spent half an hour doing little more than grunting in response to her telling

me how I never go out of my way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone.

She also told me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I had

a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew it), that she bought a

changing table and said it was from me. WTF?

>

> When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer exhaustion of

listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so many things that I could say

to her, and not one of them is worth saying because she does not understand

logic. I am at a loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help

and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who lives in a

completely different reality. I've been to therapy, but as we all know, therapy

can only help you change yourself (I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my

depression, I changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle hasn't

had the effect on my life it would have just a year or two ago). Who could

navigate a conversation with this woman? She will alter reality and normalcy,

taking back and bending things she said and things I didn't say, all because the

only thing she understands is that she's not getting something she wants. If

you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even sending this out into the

internet has been something of a relief.

>

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Posted
Posted

It truly is exhausting and frustrating to have to re-iterate the same boundary

over and over and over. But you did it--that is something to be proud of.

I noticed your mother kept turning up the manipulation every time. I wonder if

it might have been helpful to call her out on that? I've learned to say, " Do

you realize that is an incredibly manipulative thing to say? " Which of course

is always met with denial, but it gives the opportunity to also say, " I'm not

for manipulating. If you would like to call back to talk about something else,

I'll talk with you then. " and hang up.

The thing that stands out the most to me in your story is your mother's comment

that " when she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she 'sees all the other daughters there and

I feel like the only kid at the school play without a mommy.' " You acknowledge

that this is really twisted. It is a clear statement that she is looking to you

to be her emotional parent, rather than the other way around. She doesn't know

how to be a person all on her own; she doesn't know who she is without depending

on someone else to define her. I am glad you recognize that it is not possible

for you to do this and maintain your own identity at the same time, and it isn't

good for her, either.

I completely understand your deep desire to be able to discuss things

rationally. Talking with a person who has BPD is often like trying to speak a

completely different language. The words are all false cognates--they might

sound the same, but they have an entirely different meaning. You say, " I'm not

going, " and she hears, " My daughter doesn't love me or care about me unless she

goes. She is going, because if she doesn't, I am unlovable and I don't exist.

She is going, because if she doesn't, she is a bad daughter, and that means I am

a bad mother. If I can't wear my daughter to this party, I will feel naked.

She is going. "

My father has a law degree and has spent his entire career practicing logic and

reasoning. It's his hobby, too, doing puzzles and crosswords. I had once hoped

that even if I couldn't reason with my mother, I'd be able to at least have a

rational conversation with my father about the family dysfunctional dynamic.

But it turns out that when it comes to the family, he is just as enmeshed in the

fantasy as she is. I've always known my mother is not reasonable, but it was

truly disappointing that even my very logical father could not listen to reason,

either. My eyes were opened when I talked to him over the summer about

encouraging her to seek treatment, and he said one manipulative thing after

another, trying to convince me that denial is the answer. I know how frustrated

you feel.

I admire your willingness to stick to your boundary, while at the same time

managing to acknowledge her feelings. My only suggestion about defending it in

the future would be that if she brought it up again, you'd just say, " I've

already answered you. I'm not going to talk about this anymore, " and hang up if

she keeps pushing it.

I take every opportunity my mother gives me to suggest that she seek treatment.

I have a boundary in place that I will never leave my children alone with her.

Periodically, she says something to challenge that boundary. I say, " We've

discussed this already. You know that I won't let you have the children alone.

It might be helpful to be honest with a good therapist to find out how you

might change your behavior enough for me to trust you. " She claims to have

" forgotten " the several times I have caused her to burst into hysterical

emotional fits by telling her this, and I say " That is strange that you can

forget something that has been so painful to you every time I have told you. I

hope you will talk to a doctor about that. "

Also, I've never had the luxury of my mother cutting off contact with me; it's

always been my job to limit contact. But other people I know have found it very

helpful, after the parent has stopped talking to them and then suddenly calls

again, pretending nothing happened, NOT TO PLAY ALONG WITH THE PRETENSE. Say,

" I'm surprised to hear from you. The last time we spoke, you said you were

finished with me and cursed at me and hung up. " Challenge the parent to

acknowledge their behavior.

I don't know if anything I have said has been helpful, but I appreciate your

sharing your (very organized!) story. I think you did a good job dealing with

her.

KT

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Posted
Posted

It truly is exhausting and frustrating to have to re-iterate the same boundary

over and over and over. But you did it--that is something to be proud of.

I noticed your mother kept turning up the manipulation every time. I wonder if

it might have been helpful to call her out on that? I've learned to say, " Do

you realize that is an incredibly manipulative thing to say? " Which of course

is always met with denial, but it gives the opportunity to also say, " I'm not

for manipulating. If you would like to call back to talk about something else,

I'll talk with you then. " and hang up.

The thing that stands out the most to me in your story is your mother's comment

that " when she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she 'sees all the other daughters there and

I feel like the only kid at the school play without a mommy.' " You acknowledge

that this is really twisted. It is a clear statement that she is looking to you

to be her emotional parent, rather than the other way around. She doesn't know

how to be a person all on her own; she doesn't know who she is without depending

on someone else to define her. I am glad you recognize that it is not possible

for you to do this and maintain your own identity at the same time, and it isn't

good for her, either.

I completely understand your deep desire to be able to discuss things

rationally. Talking with a person who has BPD is often like trying to speak a

completely different language. The words are all false cognates--they might

sound the same, but they have an entirely different meaning. You say, " I'm not

going, " and she hears, " My daughter doesn't love me or care about me unless she

goes. She is going, because if she doesn't, I am unlovable and I don't exist.

She is going, because if she doesn't, she is a bad daughter, and that means I am

a bad mother. If I can't wear my daughter to this party, I will feel naked.

She is going. "

My father has a law degree and has spent his entire career practicing logic and

reasoning. It's his hobby, too, doing puzzles and crosswords. I had once hoped

that even if I couldn't reason with my mother, I'd be able to at least have a

rational conversation with my father about the family dysfunctional dynamic.

But it turns out that when it comes to the family, he is just as enmeshed in the

fantasy as she is. I've always known my mother is not reasonable, but it was

truly disappointing that even my very logical father could not listen to reason,

either. My eyes were opened when I talked to him over the summer about

encouraging her to seek treatment, and he said one manipulative thing after

another, trying to convince me that denial is the answer. I know how frustrated

you feel.

I admire your willingness to stick to your boundary, while at the same time

managing to acknowledge her feelings. My only suggestion about defending it in

the future would be that if she brought it up again, you'd just say, " I've

already answered you. I'm not going to talk about this anymore, " and hang up if

she keeps pushing it.

I take every opportunity my mother gives me to suggest that she seek treatment.

I have a boundary in place that I will never leave my children alone with her.

Periodically, she says something to challenge that boundary. I say, " We've

discussed this already. You know that I won't let you have the children alone.

It might be helpful to be honest with a good therapist to find out how you

might change your behavior enough for me to trust you. " She claims to have

" forgotten " the several times I have caused her to burst into hysterical

emotional fits by telling her this, and I say " That is strange that you can

forget something that has been so painful to you every time I have told you. I

hope you will talk to a doctor about that. "

Also, I've never had the luxury of my mother cutting off contact with me; it's

always been my job to limit contact. But other people I know have found it very

helpful, after the parent has stopped talking to them and then suddenly calls

again, pretending nothing happened, NOT TO PLAY ALONG WITH THE PRETENSE. Say,

" I'm surprised to hear from you. The last time we spoke, you said you were

finished with me and cursed at me and hung up. " Challenge the parent to

acknowledge their behavior.

I don't know if anything I have said has been helpful, but I appreciate your

sharing your (very organized!) story. I think you did a good job dealing with

her.

KT

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Posted
Posted

Thanks so much for your responses, everyone. I'm blown away by your willingness

to read through such a long rant!

Annie, I respect and understand your decision to be NC. I wish I felt that would

be the best course of action for me. It sounds like you're lucky to have family

members who can validate your experience of reality. Does your mother push back

very hard against your NC limits?

KT, I feel like you saw into my mind and knew exactly what I needed to hear,

when I didn't know myself! Thank you.

I think your advice to tell her that I've already answered her sounds like it

might work, or at least give me something to hold onto without digging myself

deeper out of confusion or a misguided attempt to reason with her. Pointing out

her manipulation probably won't work with her, since she has said over and over

again that she is not trying to be manipulative, and that whole volley can go

back and forth forever. But it was so validating to see that someone else

noticed her increasing attempts to manipulate.

Your entire paragraph beginning, " The words are all false cognates, " was such an

accurate read on how she feels.

" That is strange that you can forget something that has been so painful to you

every time I have told you. I hope you will talk to a doctor about that. "

That cracked me up. I don't know how you can tell her that with a straight face!

I'm sorry that neither of your parents seems to be capable of having a

reasonable conversation.

Ugh. I await Mom's next phone call, but at least I feel a little clearer now.

>

> It truly is exhausting and frustrating to have to re-iterate the same boundary

over and over and over. But you did it--that is something to be proud of.

>

> I noticed your mother kept turning up the manipulation every time. I wonder

if it might have been helpful to call her out on that? I've learned to say, " Do

you realize that is an incredibly manipulative thing to say? " Which of course

is always met with denial, but it gives the opportunity to also say, " I'm not

for manipulating. If you would like to call back to talk about something else,

I'll talk with you then. " and hang up.

>

> The thing that stands out the most to me in your story is your mother's

comment that " when she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she 'sees all the other daughters there and

I feel like the only kid at the school play without a mommy.' " You acknowledge

that this is really twisted. It is a clear statement that she is looking to you

to be her emotional parent, rather than the other way around. She doesn't know

how to be a person all on her own; she doesn't know who she is without depending

on someone else to define her. I am glad you recognize that it is not possible

for you to do this and maintain your own identity at the same time, and it isn't

good for her, either.

>

> I completely understand your deep desire to be able to discuss things

rationally. Talking with a person who has BPD is often like trying to speak a

completely different language. The words are all false cognates--they might

sound the same, but they have an entirely different meaning. You say, " I'm not

going, " and she hears, " My daughter doesn't love me or care about me unless she

goes. She is going, because if she doesn't, I am unlovable and I don't exist.

She is going, because if she doesn't, she is a bad daughter, and that means I am

a bad mother. If I can't wear my daughter to this party, I will feel naked.

She is going. "

>

> My father has a law degree and has spent his entire career practicing logic

and reasoning. It's his hobby, too, doing puzzles and crosswords. I had once

hoped that even if I couldn't reason with my mother, I'd be able to at least

have a rational conversation with my father about the family dysfunctional

dynamic. But it turns out that when it comes to the family, he is just as

enmeshed in the fantasy as she is. I've always known my mother is not

reasonable, but it was truly disappointing that even my very logical father

could not listen to reason, either. My eyes were opened when I talked to him

over the summer about encouraging her to seek treatment, and he said one

manipulative thing after another, trying to convince me that denial is the

answer. I know how frustrated you feel.

>

> I admire your willingness to stick to your boundary, while at the same time

managing to acknowledge her feelings. My only suggestion about defending it in

the future would be that if she brought it up again, you'd just say, " I've

already answered you. I'm not going to talk about this anymore, " and hang up if

she keeps pushing it.

>

> I take every opportunity my mother gives me to suggest that she seek

treatment. I have a boundary in place that I will never leave my children alone

with her. Periodically, she says something to challenge that boundary. I say,

" We've discussed this already. You know that I won't let you have the children

alone. It might be helpful to be honest with a good therapist to find out how

you might change your behavior enough for me to trust you. " She claims to have

" forgotten " the several times I have caused her to burst into hysterical

emotional fits by telling her this, and I say " That is strange that you can

forget something that has been so painful to you every time I have told you. I

hope you will talk to a doctor about that. "

>

> Also, I've never had the luxury of my mother cutting off contact with me; it's

always been my job to limit contact. But other people I know have found it very

helpful, after the parent has stopped talking to them and then suddenly calls

again, pretending nothing happened, NOT TO PLAY ALONG WITH THE PRETENSE. Say,

" I'm surprised to hear from you. The last time we spoke, you said you were

finished with me and cursed at me and hung up. " Challenge the parent to

acknowledge their behavior.

>

> I don't know if anything I have said has been helpful, but I appreciate your

sharing your (very organized!) story. I think you did a good job dealing with

her.

>

> KT

>

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Posted
Posted

Thanks so much for your responses, everyone. I'm blown away by your willingness

to read through such a long rant!

Annie, I respect and understand your decision to be NC. I wish I felt that would

be the best course of action for me. It sounds like you're lucky to have family

members who can validate your experience of reality. Does your mother push back

very hard against your NC limits?

KT, I feel like you saw into my mind and knew exactly what I needed to hear,

when I didn't know myself! Thank you.

I think your advice to tell her that I've already answered her sounds like it

might work, or at least give me something to hold onto without digging myself

deeper out of confusion or a misguided attempt to reason with her. Pointing out

her manipulation probably won't work with her, since she has said over and over

again that she is not trying to be manipulative, and that whole volley can go

back and forth forever. But it was so validating to see that someone else

noticed her increasing attempts to manipulate.

Your entire paragraph beginning, " The words are all false cognates, " was such an

accurate read on how she feels.

" That is strange that you can forget something that has been so painful to you

every time I have told you. I hope you will talk to a doctor about that. "

That cracked me up. I don't know how you can tell her that with a straight face!

I'm sorry that neither of your parents seems to be capable of having a

reasonable conversation.

Ugh. I await Mom's next phone call, but at least I feel a little clearer now.

>

> It truly is exhausting and frustrating to have to re-iterate the same boundary

over and over and over. But you did it--that is something to be proud of.

>

> I noticed your mother kept turning up the manipulation every time. I wonder

if it might have been helpful to call her out on that? I've learned to say, " Do

you realize that is an incredibly manipulative thing to say? " Which of course

is always met with denial, but it gives the opportunity to also say, " I'm not

for manipulating. If you would like to call back to talk about something else,

I'll talk with you then. " and hang up.

>

> The thing that stands out the most to me in your story is your mother's

comment that " when she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she 'sees all the other daughters there and

I feel like the only kid at the school play without a mommy.' " You acknowledge

that this is really twisted. It is a clear statement that she is looking to you

to be her emotional parent, rather than the other way around. She doesn't know

how to be a person all on her own; she doesn't know who she is without depending

on someone else to define her. I am glad you recognize that it is not possible

for you to do this and maintain your own identity at the same time, and it isn't

good for her, either.

>

> I completely understand your deep desire to be able to discuss things

rationally. Talking with a person who has BPD is often like trying to speak a

completely different language. The words are all false cognates--they might

sound the same, but they have an entirely different meaning. You say, " I'm not

going, " and she hears, " My daughter doesn't love me or care about me unless she

goes. She is going, because if she doesn't, I am unlovable and I don't exist.

She is going, because if she doesn't, she is a bad daughter, and that means I am

a bad mother. If I can't wear my daughter to this party, I will feel naked.

She is going. "

>

> My father has a law degree and has spent his entire career practicing logic

and reasoning. It's his hobby, too, doing puzzles and crosswords. I had once

hoped that even if I couldn't reason with my mother, I'd be able to at least

have a rational conversation with my father about the family dysfunctional

dynamic. But it turns out that when it comes to the family, he is just as

enmeshed in the fantasy as she is. I've always known my mother is not

reasonable, but it was truly disappointing that even my very logical father

could not listen to reason, either. My eyes were opened when I talked to him

over the summer about encouraging her to seek treatment, and he said one

manipulative thing after another, trying to convince me that denial is the

answer. I know how frustrated you feel.

>

> I admire your willingness to stick to your boundary, while at the same time

managing to acknowledge her feelings. My only suggestion about defending it in

the future would be that if she brought it up again, you'd just say, " I've

already answered you. I'm not going to talk about this anymore, " and hang up if

she keeps pushing it.

>

> I take every opportunity my mother gives me to suggest that she seek

treatment. I have a boundary in place that I will never leave my children alone

with her. Periodically, she says something to challenge that boundary. I say,

" We've discussed this already. You know that I won't let you have the children

alone. It might be helpful to be honest with a good therapist to find out how

you might change your behavior enough for me to trust you. " She claims to have

" forgotten " the several times I have caused her to burst into hysterical

emotional fits by telling her this, and I say " That is strange that you can

forget something that has been so painful to you every time I have told you. I

hope you will talk to a doctor about that. "

>

> Also, I've never had the luxury of my mother cutting off contact with me; it's

always been my job to limit contact. But other people I know have found it very

helpful, after the parent has stopped talking to them and then suddenly calls

again, pretending nothing happened, NOT TO PLAY ALONG WITH THE PRETENSE. Say,

" I'm surprised to hear from you. The last time we spoke, you said you were

finished with me and cursed at me and hung up. " Challenge the parent to

acknowledge their behavior.

>

> I don't know if anything I have said has been helpful, but I appreciate your

sharing your (very organized!) story. I think you did a good job dealing with

her.

>

> KT

>

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Posted
Posted

Its so true: each of us has to find our own path, and figure out what we can and

can't tolerate. Its so very individual.

In my case, I need to not be in any contact because just hearing her voice on

the phone was starting to result in migraine-like or Meniere's-disease-like

headaches for me. Contact was making me physically ill, probably due to

suppressed rage on my part. My nada alternates between kindly, seemingly

normal, loving behaviors... then she turns on me and attacks me. So unlike your

nada, mine tends to not beg me for favors or attention like a child, she attacks

me, and it seems to me that she enjoys hurting me (trying to make me feel

ashamed and inferior and repulsive, mostly) and she does it deliberately, like a

sadistic bully, and I just couldn't take it any more.

RE your question, no, she is not persistent and I'm grateful for that. After

the first 6 months or so, she gave up calling me, as I never responded. I just

erased her messages without listening to them. If she sends me a card, I just

put it in a box without reading it.

She hasn't attempted to phone me for several months now, and I've only had a

couple of messages relayed to me by my Sister over the last two years; Sister is

kindly acting a go-between without taking sides.

So, if you can have a relationship with your nada by setting firm, reasonable,

rational boundaries with her, then, that's wonderful.

I'm very happy for you, and I wish my nada wasn't such a " Jekyll and Hyde " , then

I might try again, but, my experience is that forgiving nada and attempting to

reconnect with her only results in more pain for me.

-Annie

> >

> > It truly is exhausting and frustrating to have to re-iterate the same

boundary over and over and over. But you did it--that is something to be proud

of.

> >

> > I noticed your mother kept turning up the manipulation every time. I wonder

if it might have been helpful to call her out on that? I've learned to say, " Do

you realize that is an incredibly manipulative thing to say? " Which of course

is always met with denial, but it gives the opportunity to also say, " I'm not

for manipulating. If you would like to call back to talk about something else,

I'll talk with you then. " and hang up.

> >

> > The thing that stands out the most to me in your story is your mother's

comment that " when she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she 'sees all the other daughters there and

I feel like the only kid at the school play without a mommy.' " You acknowledge

that this is really twisted. It is a clear statement that she is looking to you

to be her emotional parent, rather than the other way around. She doesn't know

how to be a person all on her own; she doesn't know who she is without depending

on someone else to define her. I am glad you recognize that it is not possible

for you to do this and maintain your own identity at the same time, and it isn't

good for her, either.

> >

> > I completely understand your deep desire to be able to discuss things

rationally. Talking with a person who has BPD is often like trying to speak a

completely different language. The words are all false cognates--they might

sound the same, but they have an entirely different meaning. You say, " I'm not

going, " and she hears, " My daughter doesn't love me or care about me unless she

goes. She is going, because if she doesn't, I am unlovable and I don't exist.

She is going, because if she doesn't, she is a bad daughter, and that means I am

a bad mother. If I can't wear my daughter to this party, I will feel naked.

She is going. "

> >

> > My father has a law degree and has spent his entire career practicing logic

and reasoning. It's his hobby, too, doing puzzles and crosswords. I had once

hoped that even if I couldn't reason with my mother, I'd be able to at least

have a rational conversation with my father about the family dysfunctional

dynamic. But it turns out that when it comes to the family, he is just as

enmeshed in the fantasy as she is. I've always known my mother is not

reasonable, but it was truly disappointing that even my very logical father

could not listen to reason, either. My eyes were opened when I talked to him

over the summer about encouraging her to seek treatment, and he said one

manipulative thing after another, trying to convince me that denial is the

answer. I know how frustrated you feel.

> >

> > I admire your willingness to stick to your boundary, while at the same time

managing to acknowledge her feelings. My only suggestion about defending it in

the future would be that if she brought it up again, you'd just say, " I've

already answered you. I'm not going to talk about this anymore, " and hang up if

she keeps pushing it.

> >

> > I take every opportunity my mother gives me to suggest that she seek

treatment. I have a boundary in place that I will never leave my children alone

with her. Periodically, she says something to challenge that boundary. I say,

" We've discussed this already. You know that I won't let you have the children

alone. It might be helpful to be honest with a good therapist to find out how

you might change your behavior enough for me to trust you. " She claims to have

" forgotten " the several times I have caused her to burst into hysterical

emotional fits by telling her this, and I say " That is strange that you can

forget something that has been so painful to you every time I have told you. I

hope you will talk to a doctor about that. "

> >

> > Also, I've never had the luxury of my mother cutting off contact with me;

it's always been my job to limit contact. But other people I know have found it

very helpful, after the parent has stopped talking to them and then suddenly

calls again, pretending nothing happened, NOT TO PLAY ALONG WITH THE PRETENSE.

Say, " I'm surprised to hear from you. The last time we spoke, you said you were

finished with me and cursed at me and hung up. " Challenge the parent to

acknowledge their behavior.

> >

> > I don't know if anything I have said has been helpful, but I appreciate your

sharing your (very organized!) story. I think you did a good job dealing with

her.

> >

> > KT

> >

>

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Yes! My mother told me last October that we were " done " . I thought HALLElUJAH!!!

Then she called wanting to spend Thanksgiving together. Then Christmas. Then my

brother's birthday in Jan. Then my child's b-day in Feb. Then my b-day in March.

I told her no at that point; the thought of spending my b-day with her was too

much and I went extremely LC for about 6 months.

I'm dreading the holidays. I feel so guilty if I don't spend them with her. She

LOVES the holidays like a twisted little kid.

> >Part One

> >Mother and I are in the middle of a three-month long

> >disagreement right now, and I just need to be able to put all

> >this somewhere. It's a small issue in itself, but it's set in

> >such a long context of situations just like it, and she has

> >been so abusive in the past that I have no reserve of affection

> >or liking for her to carry me through it. It's a long story, so

> >I understand if it's just too much for an internet board.

> >

> >She has wanted me to go to her friend's daughter's baby shower.

> >Because of our mothers' relationship, I basically felt

> >obligated to comply when this girl and her mother invited me to

> >stay over two or three times in my late teens. At that point in

> >my life, I was still too cowed by the idea of offending anyone

> >to say no.

> >

> >I have nothing in common with this girl. I spent the few times

> >I saw her on breaks from my college trying to nod and smile

> >while she told me about her boyfriend in jail and showed me the

> >pictures of herself in her underwear she was sending to him. If

> >not really knowing how to respond to that makes me a snob, then

> >I'm a snob.

> >

> >Mom first asked me to go to this thing in June. I told her I

> >didn't want to go. Her response was, " We'll see. "

> >

> >

> >Part Two

> >She called me a few days later to tell me that sometimes, when

> >she hangs out with this woman/daughter pair, and another

> >woman/daughter pair friend of hers, she " sees all the other

> >daughters there and I feel like the only kid at the school play

> >without a mommy. "

> >

> >Ignoring the obvious pathology behind this statement, I told

> >her I appreciated her sharing her feelings with me, and said it

> >must be awful to feel that way. I learned long ago to never

> >tell her her feelings are irrational. You don't tell crazy

> >people they're crazy! I did, however, point out that those

> >daughters live with their mothers because they got pregnant in

> >their late teens and can't support themselves financially,

> >whereas I live two hours away and visit her because I like

> >seeing her (okay, so that last part was a lie). I also told her

> >that I don't like baby showers (I HATE showers of any kind,

> >weddings, too) and still wasn't sure why she thought I needed

> >to be there.

> >

> >Part Three

> >She called me in late September to tell me that she had been

> >named godmother to the girl's upcoming second baby, and will be

> >planning the shower. I said, " Mom, I thought we already talked

> >about this. " She said, " Yes, and I thought we agreed you were

> >going to come. " I reiterated that I was not coming, and she

> >told me that this was very important to her, that she didn't

> >even know what to say, but that she was not getting over this

> >any time soon. Then she hung up.

> >

> >Part Four

> >She stopped calling me, except in response to my calls, which I

> >did weekly just to remind her that I still loved her and that

> >my not coming didn't have anything to do with that. We

> >exchanged emails. Here is an excerpt from hers:

> >

> > " I explained to you that I'm always the one with out a daugther

> >to accompany me...most of the time I handle it(Irelize you

> >have a life),however this event was of particular

> >importance TO ME. You said you understood. So is it you

> >understand and just don't give a shit about me and my

> >feelings or is it something else? I cried tring to figure out

> >what it is that I did to you to get to the point where I have

> >to beg you to come to this one baby shower with me.If I can't

> >have any expectation of relying on you to attend a function

> >that I'm helping to throw, I can't have any expectation of you

> >at all...I would have hoped that when on the few occasions I

> >ask for something for ME and say it is important to ME I'm met

> >with such BS. I was after all for many years the only one

> >always there for you... "

> >

> >It goes on from there. Needless to say, this is not " one of the

> >few occasions " that she has asked something from me. She asks

> >for things a lot. I wrote back and told her it was not my

> >intention to hurt her, I loved her, but I was not going. I

> >also, stupidly, wrote some things with the intention of

> >reasoning with her.

> >

> >Part Five

> >She calls me a few days later and asks, AGAIN, if I'm coming. I

> >tell her I'm confused, as this is the third time I've said no.

> >She repeats that she's not getting over this, and if I don't

> >go, " it's over. " Gee, never heard that before. However, she

> >STILL sends me an invitation in the mail. As fate would have

> >it, the shower is being held the same day as a good friend's

> >wedding. She calls me the day of the shower.

> >

> > " You're not coming today? "

> >

> > " No, I'm getting ready to go to a wedding. "

> >

> > " Well, you better spend all your holidays with these people

> >because I'm done. It's all I can do not to tell you to go fuck

> >yourself. I told you this was important to me, but it's over,

> >so you just keep walking. "

> >

> >Last night, I called her to discuss Thanksgiving. We didn't get

> >around to it. I spent half an hour doing little more than

> >grunting in response to her telling me how I never go out of my

> >way for her or put myself out of my comfort zone. She also told

> >me that she was so embarrassed that I was there (even though I

> >had a legit reason for not being there, and the family knew

> >it), that she bought a changing table and said it was from me.

> >WTF?

> >

> >When I got off the phone, I burst into tears from sheer

> >exhaustion of listening to her. I'm so fucking tired. I have so

> >many things that I could say to her, and not one of them is

> >worth saying because she does not understand logic. I am at a

> >loss. I'm so tired of feeling my way in the dark with no help

> >and no instruction. I don't know how to talk to a person who

> >lives in a completely different reality. I've been to therapy,

> >but as we all know, therapy can only help you change yourself

> >(I have, btw; I've got a better handle on my depression, I

> >changed my expectations of mom, and even this whole debacle

> >hasn't had the effect on my life it would have just a year or

> >two ago). Who could navigate a conversation with this woman?

> >She will alter reality and normalcy, taking back and bending

> >things she said and things I didn't say, all because the only

> >thing she understands is that she's not getting something she

> >wants. If you've made it this far in my post, thanks! Even

> >sending this out into the internet has been something of a

> >relief.

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

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Hi Jgar and the KO gang,

I have appreciated reading this post and responses.

I would just like to share that less contact = less problems for me. I have

been feeling so much healthier and happier and better able to handle my family

and life since I instituted boundaries with nada. Maybe because we've been

through this before, she seemed to get the point pretty fast (or she's winding

up for the big one - a tirade I mean). But I got really involved in financial

problems, working, taking my sick kids down to Riley, etc. for a few years, so I

think I unintentionally created some strong boundaries with her years back that

I wasn't completely aware were there.

Interesting, and seemingly unbeknownst to nada, I was still hopelessly entangled

in her emotional snares. My years of busy-ness basically functioned like denial

and kept me unaware of the problems. I was actually just unable to get time or

energy to play her games. So I think she sees me as someone who " doesn't play " ?

I got back involved HEAVILY when step-dad passed away, then withdrew within a

couple months after realizing how horrible the contact was for all of us. Then

found out about BPD. Thank you Oz group!!!

So, one option might be to just get involved in whatever you need to be doing

legitimately. I remind myself that time spent on the black hole of nada's

emotional talks is like throwing money into a pit or pouring water in a bucket

with a hole in it. For me, that time is better spent on someone who appreciates

it, like my husband or children. :-) Good Luck!

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