Re: the family enforcer

[Guest guest]

Yes, i've seen it. If it were me, I'd do the old LC/NC treatment on MS

Enforcer.

>

>

> I wonder how common this situation is. I've made up a term to describe my

> aunt's role in the family - The Enforcer. She sees it as her job to enforce

> the family values and morals as she is the head of the family. These values

> include adult children living near aging relatives as to help them with

> everything and be ready for any emergency. She did this herself at huge

> personal sacrifice to be near my grandnada. I know this shares a lot with

> Flying Monkey territory, but in this case my nada will be content and okay

> but the Enforcer is always looking to make me feel guilty or take advantage

> of any upheaval in my life to push me to move near my nada.

>

> I feel pretty confident about my plans to take care of my nada

> long-distance as long as she can stay in her own home. I'm planning to help

> her in coordinating increasing levels of home care with occasional visits

> from me to check on things. But The Enforcer lives in the same town as my

> nada and thinks I'm dumping it all on her - even though everything she does

> is voluntary and mostly just social with my nada. In real practical terms

> the enforcer does very little in helping my nada day-to-day. For example all

> of her light bulbs in the ceiling fixtures are burnt out, but my nada won't

> ask my aunt because she always says no to any similar request. And of course

> my nada won't ask the yard guys to do it. So when I visit...odds are I will.

> At some point there'll just be too many things and I'll have to confront my

> nada about finally having in home help...so far her excuse to me is, oh but

> I have your aunt here.

>

> So I wonder does anyone have an enforcer in their family? Not someone who

> is acting on behalf of your nada but has a very strong agenda of their own

> to derail your distance or LC? How have you handled it? I really don't want

> to lose my relationship with my aunt which once upon a time was better than

> this, but I worry it may come to that.

>

> Thanks all,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks GS - I've definitely distanced in terms of what I share with her but more

may be needed.

>

> >

> >

> > I wonder how common this situation is. I've made up a term to describe my

> > aunt's role in the family - The Enforcer. She sees it as her job to enforce

> > the family values and morals as she is the head of the family. These values

> > include adult children living near aging relatives as to help them with

> > everything and be ready for any emergency. She did this herself at huge

> > personal sacrifice to be near my grandnada. I know this shares a lot with

> > Flying Monkey territory, but in this case my nada will be content and okay

> > but the Enforcer is always looking to make me feel guilty or take advantage

> > of any upheaval in my life to push me to move near my nada.

> >

> > I feel pretty confident about my plans to take care of my nada

> > long-distance as long as she can stay in her own home. I'm planning to help

> > her in coordinating increasing levels of home care with occasional visits

> > from me to check on things. But The Enforcer lives in the same town as my

> > nada and thinks I'm dumping it all on her - even though everything she does

> > is voluntary and mostly just social with my nada. In real practical terms

> > the enforcer does very little in helping my nada day-to-day. For example all

> > of her light bulbs in the ceiling fixtures are burnt out, but my nada won't

> > ask my aunt because she always says no to any similar request. And of course

> > my nada won't ask the yard guys to do it. So when I visit...odds are I will.

> > At some point there'll just be too many things and I'll have to confront my

> > nada about finally having in home help...so far her excuse to me is, oh but

> > I have your aunt here.

> >

> > So I wonder does anyone have an enforcer in their family? Not someone who

> > is acting on behalf of your nada but has a very strong agenda of their own

> > to derail your distance or LC? How have you handled it? I really don't want

> > to lose my relationship with my aunt which once upon a time was better than

> > this, but I worry it may come to that.

> >

> > Thanks all,

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,is this " Aunt Enforcer " the same person who did *nothing* when your

grandnada's medication caused her to become mute?

And if so,what kind of " values " is she espousing really? It sounds (to me) more

like she is wanting to enforce her own muddled completely subjective " family

values " notions on someone (you) who is more than capable of handling *actual*

contingencies as they arise,such as you did when you stepped in with your

grandnada's medication issue.You addressed that problem in your own " mentally

awake and aware " competent way--but I have to wonder,if you had " been there " in

that situation the way The Enforcer envisions being there for family,what would

that have been: you sitting there like a zombie along with your aunt and your

nada patting grandnada's hand and being devotedly by her side while her

medication had a deleterious effect none of you did anything about simply

because an almighty doctor had given it to her? What good would that have done?

I mean,consider the source here,you know?

I know that you've given your nada's elder care much careful thought (and

have worried about possibly having to eventually place her in a nursing

home)--but that's the thing: you want to have a *plan*.That is having your

nada's best interests at heart and since this is a *nada* even caring about

having a plan for her care is going above and beyond regular every day

pedestrian " family values " .She's fortunate you're still involved with her at

all.Moreover,she's fortunate that you do have her well being in mind and that

you are able to consider that while taking your own safety and needs on board.

Asking (or worse,demanding) anyone to sacrifice themself to someone else

is just unhealthy,period.And look at how well that mentality served your

grandnada--if everyone had just gone along and been dutiful per The Enforcer's

view of it,I suppose she would have remained mute to the end of her days and the

sum total of that would have been " But we never left her side " --again,what good

would that have done? ...It seems to me that The Enforcer would just have the

blind leading the blind.

And you're right: that is her agenda; I think she's assuaging her own ego

by couching that in very easy (lazy!) socially acceptable terms using " family

values " and " morals " as an ego shield really.It's an easy,handy way to feel

" good " .You said that she doesn't even do much for your nada in a practical

sense.If she thinks you're dumping it all on her that's because,IMO,her " family "

thought process is nothing more than pea soup subjectivity.The Enforcer really

doesn't have *your* best interests at heart in the same way that you have your

nada's best interests ultimately at heart,so her pushing you to have you live

near your nada is just so much of her *own* dysfunctional junk she is imposing

on you.How *dare* she imply that you should feel guilty about making healthy

choices? If she chooses to continue to swill in her own pea soup,that's not your

issue to own--it's solely *hers*.

I'd say: stay strong in your conviction of planning for what is best both

for you and your nada.You're doing the right thing by not allowing yourself to

get sucked in to The Enforcer's wrong sighted and dysfunctional " family values "

vortex.

Just remember: dysfunctional people *don't know what they're doing*.Their

protestations/entreaties/advice/commentary are just so much disordered sound and

fury,signifying nothing.It's blather,basically.They use guilting and shaming

other people as a way to justify their own distorted world view.

My two cents I know it isn't easy.I have a paternal aunt who fancies

herself The Enforcer of all that is moral and right in the FOO--if you knew this

woman,you'd know how ridiculous that is,I'm sure.I'm NC with her for that

reason.Short of refusing contact with your aunt,it seems like the only other

thing you could do is start initiating boundaries about what you will or will

not discuss with your aunt.If that would open a too great can of worms or be too

much of a hassle,just remember that she is full of it and you do know what is

what with your nada enough to make adequate provision for her and that you don't

need to be *right there with her at all times* to do so.If all the ceiling

fixtures in your nada's house are burned out and neither of them can call a

handyman to come replace the bulbs,then that's going to have to be just too bad

and if you do happen to replace the bulbs during a visit that's very nice of you

but that is all,just nice of you.It wasn't your responsibility in the first

place and it wasn't the end of the world.Nada could have asked the yard guys but

she didn't,so she had to wait.If stuff like that piles up in her home,you're

going to make arrangements to have some home care arranged.Normal,right thing to

do,end of story.*You* are the rational one here.

>

> I wonder how common this situation is. I've made up a term to describe my

aunt's role in the family - The Enforcer. She sees it as her job to enforce the

family values and morals as she is the head of the family. These values

include adult children living near aging relatives as to help them with

everything and be ready for any emergency. She did this herself at huge personal

sacrifice to be near my grandnada. I know this shares a lot with Flying Monkey

territory, but in this case my nada will be content and okay but the Enforcer is

always looking to make me feel guilty or take advantage of any upheaval in my

life to push me to move near my nada.

>

> I feel pretty confident about my plans to take care of my nada long-distance

as long as she can stay in her own home. I'm planning to help her in

coordinating increasing levels of home care with occasional visits from me to

check on things. But The Enforcer lives in the same town as my nada and thinks

I'm dumping it all on her - even though everything she does is voluntary and

mostly just social with my nada. In real practical terms the enforcer does very

little in helping my nada day-to-day. For example all of her light bulbs in

the ceiling fixtures are burnt out, but my nada won't ask my aunt because she

always says no to any similar request. And of course my nada won't ask the yard

guys to do it. So when I visit...odds are I will. At some point there'll just

be too many things and I'll have to confront my nada about finally having in

home help...so far her excuse to me is, oh but I have your aunt here.

>

> So I wonder does anyone have an enforcer in their family? Not someone who is

acting on behalf of your nada but has a very strong agenda of their own to

derail your distance or LC? How have you handled it? I really don't want to

lose my relationship with my aunt which once upon a time was better than this,

but I worry it may come to that.

>

> Thanks all,

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

*You* are the rational one here.

>

, I really needed to hear that! Thank you. Sometimes with the

relentless pressure and drip drip drip of it all, sometimes I wonder maybe I am

the crazy cold-hearted selfish one. It really helps to hear your reaction to

it. I had to laugh at your imagining my aunt in the pea soup of delusion. It's

very much that way. And you are right that if I were doing what she'd imagined

as right and good during my grandnada's mute crisis, absolutely I'd be there

visiting every day, nodding, giving her a hug, making a big show of being

*physically present* but doing nothing in reality. I've done quite a lot for

my nada from a distance already, critical stuff that made the difference in

important outcomes, but my aunt gives no credit for that and neither does my

nada - she literally thinks my aunt is the one who is there for her, after all

she makes such a big show of it.

The hard part of this is that outside of the negatives I've shared, there are

good parts to my relationship with my aunt. And it would be devastating for me

to have to go NC with her - I doubt LC would work too well. She was the saner

female relative I turned to as a second mother in place of my nada when I was

young. In hindsight that was a big mistake because now I essentially have two

dysfunctional mothers. I will be my aunt's last living relative after my nada

passes and she is expecting I'll be there in her elder years. Sometimes the

weight of all this is so huge.

Thanks for understanding and validating that I am the rational one

[Guest guest]

Thanks,,your post validates me too because I also did much " critical stuff

that made a difference in important outcomes " for fada and got zero credit for

it from anyone in the FOO.It's just amazing how simplistic their notions of

" support " are.

Making a big show! Lol...Before fada died he gave my brother instructions

to absolutely make sure one of my cousins got the brand new Apple computer he

had bought,as if this was really important.My brother actually spirited it out

of the house in a hurry as if I would steal it--this being of course the very

last thought from my mind after having done the serious sh*t work for the past

few days of nursing fada while he died.Not to mention that I could have bought

myself a new computer if I wanted one anyway....it was just

so...ridiculous...and my cousin had actually done *nothing*--I mean

*nothing*--ever for fada except be impressed with his frigging computer,so he

was rewarding her for pumping up his ego.I had done so much for him over the

past few years,at times foolishly running myself into the ground trying to

" earn " his love and approval by doing for him and silly silly me: all I really

had to do was make him feel like the coolest dude in the world,forget about

pesky practical ego downers such as keeping doctor's appointments or actually

following doctor's advice when after all fada knows everything.He even bought a

really cool computer,hey,wow! And when my cousin recognized that all important

fact,she was really there for him,much more than I ever was...

I'm sorry your aunt puts such a heavy trip on you and that what is good

in your relationship can't simply be good without the pressure of irrational

expectations.It's really not fair that you're expected to take care of

her,too.That would definitely be a huge pressure.Like I said before,expecting

anyone to give up their life for you is extremely dysfunctional.Whatever

happened to making plans for your own care so you won't burden others? That is

not reasonable!!!!!!

And it's just not rational,either.You are *not* crazy cold hearted or

selfish to not want to totally sacrifice yourself to two people who could have

made arrangements for their own elder care.Millions of people do that every

day,all the time,without guilting their " last living relatives " .You just don't

deserve that.You truly do want to do right by them,but they also have to stop

asking for the moon and expecting you to deliver it.

> >

> *You* are the rational one here.

> >

>

> , I really needed to hear that! Thank you. Sometimes with the

relentless pressure and drip drip drip of it all, sometimes I wonder maybe I am

the crazy cold-hearted selfish one. It really helps to hear your reaction to

it. I had to laugh at your imagining my aunt in the pea soup of delusion. It's

very much that way. And you are right that if I were doing what she'd imagined

as right and good during my grandnada's mute crisis, absolutely I'd be there

visiting every day, nodding, giving her a hug, making a big show of being

*physically present* but doing nothing in reality. I've done quite a lot for

my nada from a distance already, critical stuff that made the difference in

important outcomes, but my aunt gives no credit for that and neither does my

nada - she literally thinks my aunt is the one who is there for her, after all

she makes such a big show of it.

>

> The hard part of this is that outside of the negatives I've shared, there are

good parts to my relationship with my aunt. And it would be devastating for me

to have to go NC with her - I doubt LC would work too well. She was the saner

female relative I turned to as a second mother in place of my nada when I was

young. In hindsight that was a big mistake because now I essentially have two

dysfunctional mothers. I will be my aunt's last living relative after my nada

passes and she is expecting I'll be there in her elder years. Sometimes the

weight of all this is so huge.

>

> Thanks for understanding and validating that I am the rational one

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks,,your post validates me too because I also did much " critical stuff

that made a difference in important outcomes " for fada and got zero credit for

it from anyone in the FOO.It's just amazing how simplistic their notions of

" support " are.

Making a big show! Lol...Before fada died he gave my brother instructions

to absolutely make sure one of my cousins got the brand new Apple computer he

had bought,as if this was really important.My brother actually spirited it out

of the house in a hurry as if I would steal it--this being of course the very

last thought from my mind after having done the serious sh*t work for the past

few days of nursing fada while he died.Not to mention that I could have bought

myself a new computer if I wanted one anyway....it was just

so...ridiculous...and my cousin had actually done *nothing*--I mean

*nothing*--ever for fada except be impressed with his frigging computer,so he

was rewarding her for pumping up his ego.I had done so much for him over the

past few years,at times foolishly running myself into the ground trying to

" earn " his love and approval by doing for him and silly silly me: all I really

had to do was make him feel like the coolest dude in the world,forget about

pesky practical ego downers such as keeping doctor's appointments or actually

following doctor's advice when after all fada knows everything.He even bought a

really cool computer,hey,wow! And when my cousin recognized that all important

fact,she was really there for him,much more than I ever was...

I'm sorry your aunt puts such a heavy trip on you and that what is good

in your relationship can't simply be good without the pressure of irrational

expectations.It's really not fair that you're expected to take care of

her,too.That would definitely be a huge pressure.Like I said before,expecting

anyone to give up their life for you is extremely dysfunctional.Whatever

happened to making plans for your own care so you won't burden others? That is

not reasonable!!!!!!

And it's just not rational,either.You are *not* crazy cold hearted or

selfish to not want to totally sacrifice yourself to two people who could have

made arrangements for their own elder care.Millions of people do that every

day,all the time,without guilting their " last living relatives " .You just don't

deserve that.You truly do want to do right by them,but they also have to stop

asking for the moon and expecting you to deliver it.

> >

> *You* are the rational one here.

> >

>

> , I really needed to hear that! Thank you. Sometimes with the

relentless pressure and drip drip drip of it all, sometimes I wonder maybe I am

the crazy cold-hearted selfish one. It really helps to hear your reaction to

it. I had to laugh at your imagining my aunt in the pea soup of delusion. It's

very much that way. And you are right that if I were doing what she'd imagined

as right and good during my grandnada's mute crisis, absolutely I'd be there

visiting every day, nodding, giving her a hug, making a big show of being

*physically present* but doing nothing in reality. I've done quite a lot for

my nada from a distance already, critical stuff that made the difference in

important outcomes, but my aunt gives no credit for that and neither does my

nada - she literally thinks my aunt is the one who is there for her, after all

she makes such a big show of it.

>

> The hard part of this is that outside of the negatives I've shared, there are

good parts to my relationship with my aunt. And it would be devastating for me

to have to go NC with her - I doubt LC would work too well. She was the saner

female relative I turned to as a second mother in place of my nada when I was

young. In hindsight that was a big mistake because now I essentially have two

dysfunctional mothers. I will be my aunt's last living relative after my nada

passes and she is expecting I'll be there in her elder years. Sometimes the

weight of all this is so huge.

>

> Thanks for understanding and validating that I am the rational one

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks,,your post validates me too because I also did much " critical stuff

that made a difference in important outcomes " for fada and got zero credit for

it from anyone in the FOO.It's just amazing how simplistic their notions of

" support " are.

Making a big show! Lol...Before fada died he gave my brother instructions

to absolutely make sure one of my cousins got the brand new Apple computer he

had bought,as if this was really important.My brother actually spirited it out

of the house in a hurry as if I would steal it--this being of course the very

last thought from my mind after having done the serious sh*t work for the past

few days of nursing fada while he died.Not to mention that I could have bought

myself a new computer if I wanted one anyway....it was just

so...ridiculous...and my cousin had actually done *nothing*--I mean

*nothing*--ever for fada except be impressed with his frigging computer,so he

was rewarding her for pumping up his ego.I had done so much for him over the

past few years,at times foolishly running myself into the ground trying to

" earn " his love and approval by doing for him and silly silly me: all I really

had to do was make him feel like the coolest dude in the world,forget about

pesky practical ego downers such as keeping doctor's appointments or actually

following doctor's advice when after all fada knows everything.He even bought a

really cool computer,hey,wow! And when my cousin recognized that all important

fact,she was really there for him,much more than I ever was...

I'm sorry your aunt puts such a heavy trip on you and that what is good

in your relationship can't simply be good without the pressure of irrational

expectations.It's really not fair that you're expected to take care of

her,too.That would definitely be a huge pressure.Like I said before,expecting

anyone to give up their life for you is extremely dysfunctional.Whatever

happened to making plans for your own care so you won't burden others? That is

not reasonable!!!!!!

And it's just not rational,either.You are *not* crazy cold hearted or

selfish to not want to totally sacrifice yourself to two people who could have

made arrangements for their own elder care.Millions of people do that every

day,all the time,without guilting their " last living relatives " .You just don't

deserve that.You truly do want to do right by them,but they also have to stop

asking for the moon and expecting you to deliver it.

> >

> *You* are the rational one here.

> >

>

> , I really needed to hear that! Thank you. Sometimes with the

relentless pressure and drip drip drip of it all, sometimes I wonder maybe I am

the crazy cold-hearted selfish one. It really helps to hear your reaction to

it. I had to laugh at your imagining my aunt in the pea soup of delusion. It's

very much that way. And you are right that if I were doing what she'd imagined

as right and good during my grandnada's mute crisis, absolutely I'd be there

visiting every day, nodding, giving her a hug, making a big show of being

*physically present* but doing nothing in reality. I've done quite a lot for

my nada from a distance already, critical stuff that made the difference in

important outcomes, but my aunt gives no credit for that and neither does my

nada - she literally thinks my aunt is the one who is there for her, after all

she makes such a big show of it.

>

> The hard part of this is that outside of the negatives I've shared, there are

good parts to my relationship with my aunt. And it would be devastating for me

to have to go NC with her - I doubt LC would work too well. She was the saner

female relative I turned to as a second mother in place of my nada when I was

young. In hindsight that was a big mistake because now I essentially have two

dysfunctional mothers. I will be my aunt's last living relative after my nada

passes and she is expecting I'll be there in her elder years. Sometimes the

weight of all this is so huge.

>

> Thanks for understanding and validating that I am the rational one

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , replies inline after the ***

>

> Thanks,,your post validates me too because I also did much " critical

stuff that made a difference in important outcomes " for fada and got zero credit

for it from anyone in the FOO.It's just amazing how simplistic their notions of

" support " are.

>

***I know, I remember your accounts of all you did for your fada at the end -

there should have been HUGE amounts of credit to you. I find with my FOO they

seem to have some sort of aversion to giving me credit for things involving them

or other things I might accomplish. I wonder if you relate? It's like a silent

conspiracy that they insist on not allowing information to exist that would

change your image or role.

> Making a big show! Lol...Before fada died he gave my brother instructions

to absolutely make sure one of my cousins got the brand new Apple computer he

had bought,as if this was really important.My brother actually spirited it out

of the house in a hurry as if I would steal it--this being of course the very

last thought from my mind after having done the serious sh*t work for the past

few days of nursing fada while he died.Not to mention that I could have bought

myself a new computer if I wanted one anyway....it was just

so...ridiculous...and my cousin had actually done *nothing*--I mean

*nothing*--ever for fada except be impressed with his frigging computer,so he

was rewarding her for pumping up his ego.I had done so much for him over the

past few years,at times foolishly running myself into the ground trying to

" earn " his love and approval by doing for him and silly silly me: all I really

had to do was make him feel like the coolest dude in the world,forget about

pesky practical ego downers such as keeping doctor's appointments or actually

following doctor's advice when after all fada knows everything.He even bought a

really cool computer,hey,wow! And when my cousin recognized that all important

fact,she was really there for him,much more than I ever was...

>

*** Oh yes, the ego stroking distanct relative or stranger is cherished beyond

all measure! This phenomenon has happened with my FOO as well and it makes me

just steam with anger. Not healthy. You were there in real terms to help your

fada with what mattered, but yet rewarding this cousin was such a priority to

him while at the same time shutting you out of the will? I guess you don't call

him a fada for nothing.

> I'm sorry your aunt puts such a heavy trip on you and that what is good

in your relationship can't simply be good without the pressure of irrational

expectations.It's really not fair that you're expected to take care of

her,too.That would definitely be a huge pressure.Like I said before,expecting

anyone to give up their life for you is extremely dysfunctional.Whatever

happened to making plans for your own care so you won't burden others? That is

not reasonable!!!!!!

>

***It means so much to read that - that it is dysfunctional to expect another

person to give up their life for you. I always thought so, but I was

brainwashed with it being a " good daughter " to sacrifice. And then my inner

doubts come up because it's not like either of them are expecting me to live

with them and do nursing care for them. The expectation is that I should be

local to them, provide for their social needs, be on call for emergencies....and

with normal people with a non-painful history maybe that wouldn't suck the soul

out of me. As it is even phone calls can trigger me and leave me needing days

to recover.

> And it's just not rational,either.You are *not* crazy cold hearted or

selfish to not want to totally sacrifice yourself to two people who could have

made arrangements for their own elder care.Millions of people do that every

day,all the time,without guilting their " last living relatives " .You just don't

deserve that.You truly do want to do right by them,but they also have to stop

asking for the moon and expecting you to deliver it.

>

Ahhh, but my aunt doesn't think she's asking for the moon. (We'll leave my nada

out of this for now) She just wants to be near family as she gets older,

doesn't want to be the primary contact for her sister...after all that's *my*

job in her mind. And now in a new horrible twist that's happened just in the

last couple days it's been revealed she's considering moving after she retires

to *my city* since I won't come to her. There's also a chance she may take

early retirement within the next year. And since that would leave my nada

alone many states away creating even greater pressure for my nada to move - also

to my city. I may have to leave - a place I'd been hoping to settle long-term.

I'm freaking out *a lot* right now as I see the careful balance that allows

these relationships to be possible at all teetering on the edge.

Thanks for listening,

[Guest guest]

Hi , replies inline after the ***

>

> Thanks,,your post validates me too because I also did much " critical

stuff that made a difference in important outcomes " for fada and got zero credit

for it from anyone in the FOO.It's just amazing how simplistic their notions of

" support " are.

>

***I know, I remember your accounts of all you did for your fada at the end -

there should have been HUGE amounts of credit to you. I find with my FOO they

seem to have some sort of aversion to giving me credit for things involving them

or other things I might accomplish. I wonder if you relate? It's like a silent

conspiracy that they insist on not allowing information to exist that would

change your image or role.

> Making a big show! Lol...Before fada died he gave my brother instructions

to absolutely make sure one of my cousins got the brand new Apple computer he

had bought,as if this was really important.My brother actually spirited it out

of the house in a hurry as if I would steal it--this being of course the very

last thought from my mind after having done the serious sh*t work for the past

few days of nursing fada while he died.Not to mention that I could have bought

myself a new computer if I wanted one anyway....it was just

so...ridiculous...and my cousin had actually done *nothing*--I mean

*nothing*--ever for fada except be impressed with his frigging computer,so he

was rewarding her for pumping up his ego.I had done so much for him over the

past few years,at times foolishly running myself into the ground trying to

" earn " his love and approval by doing for him and silly silly me: all I really

had to do was make him feel like the coolest dude in the world,forget about

pesky practical ego downers such as keeping doctor's appointments or actually

following doctor's advice when after all fada knows everything.He even bought a

really cool computer,hey,wow! And when my cousin recognized that all important

fact,she was really there for him,much more than I ever was...

>

*** Oh yes, the ego stroking distanct relative or stranger is cherished beyond

all measure! This phenomenon has happened with my FOO as well and it makes me

just steam with anger. Not healthy. You were there in real terms to help your

fada with what mattered, but yet rewarding this cousin was such a priority to

him while at the same time shutting you out of the will? I guess you don't call

him a fada for nothing.

> I'm sorry your aunt puts such a heavy trip on you and that what is good

in your relationship can't simply be good without the pressure of irrational

expectations.It's really not fair that you're expected to take care of

her,too.That would definitely be a huge pressure.Like I said before,expecting

anyone to give up their life for you is extremely dysfunctional.Whatever

happened to making plans for your own care so you won't burden others? That is

not reasonable!!!!!!

>

***It means so much to read that - that it is dysfunctional to expect another

person to give up their life for you. I always thought so, but I was

brainwashed with it being a " good daughter " to sacrifice. And then my inner

doubts come up because it's not like either of them are expecting me to live

with them and do nursing care for them. The expectation is that I should be

local to them, provide for their social needs, be on call for emergencies....and

with normal people with a non-painful history maybe that wouldn't suck the soul

out of me. As it is even phone calls can trigger me and leave me needing days

to recover.

> And it's just not rational,either.You are *not* crazy cold hearted or

selfish to not want to totally sacrifice yourself to two people who could have

made arrangements for their own elder care.Millions of people do that every

day,all the time,without guilting their " last living relatives " .You just don't

deserve that.You truly do want to do right by them,but they also have to stop

asking for the moon and expecting you to deliver it.

>

Ahhh, but my aunt doesn't think she's asking for the moon. (We'll leave my nada

out of this for now) She just wants to be near family as she gets older,

doesn't want to be the primary contact for her sister...after all that's *my*

job in her mind. And now in a new horrible twist that's happened just in the

last couple days it's been revealed she's considering moving after she retires

to *my city* since I won't come to her. There's also a chance she may take

early retirement within the next year. And since that would leave my nada

alone many states away creating even greater pressure for my nada to move - also

to my city. I may have to leave - a place I'd been hoping to settle long-term.

I'm freaking out *a lot* right now as I see the careful balance that allows

these relationships to be possible at all teetering on the edge.

Thanks for listening,

[Guest guest]

Hi , replies inline after the ***

>

> Thanks,,your post validates me too because I also did much " critical

stuff that made a difference in important outcomes " for fada and got zero credit

for it from anyone in the FOO.It's just amazing how simplistic their notions of

" support " are.

>

***I know, I remember your accounts of all you did for your fada at the end -

there should have been HUGE amounts of credit to you. I find with my FOO they

seem to have some sort of aversion to giving me credit for things involving them

or other things I might accomplish. I wonder if you relate? It's like a silent

conspiracy that they insist on not allowing information to exist that would

change your image or role.

> Making a big show! Lol...Before fada died he gave my brother instructions

to absolutely make sure one of my cousins got the brand new Apple computer he

had bought,as if this was really important.My brother actually spirited it out

of the house in a hurry as if I would steal it--this being of course the very

last thought from my mind after having done the serious sh*t work for the past

few days of nursing fada while he died.Not to mention that I could have bought

myself a new computer if I wanted one anyway....it was just

so...ridiculous...and my cousin had actually done *nothing*--I mean

*nothing*--ever for fada except be impressed with his frigging computer,so he

was rewarding her for pumping up his ego.I had done so much for him over the

past few years,at times foolishly running myself into the ground trying to

" earn " his love and approval by doing for him and silly silly me: all I really

had to do was make him feel like the coolest dude in the world,forget about

pesky practical ego downers such as keeping doctor's appointments or actually

following doctor's advice when after all fada knows everything.He even bought a

really cool computer,hey,wow! And when my cousin recognized that all important

fact,she was really there for him,much more than I ever was...

>

*** Oh yes, the ego stroking distanct relative or stranger is cherished beyond

all measure! This phenomenon has happened with my FOO as well and it makes me

just steam with anger. Not healthy. You were there in real terms to help your

fada with what mattered, but yet rewarding this cousin was such a priority to

him while at the same time shutting you out of the will? I guess you don't call

him a fada for nothing.

> I'm sorry your aunt puts such a heavy trip on you and that what is good

in your relationship can't simply be good without the pressure of irrational

expectations.It's really not fair that you're expected to take care of

her,too.That would definitely be a huge pressure.Like I said before,expecting

anyone to give up their life for you is extremely dysfunctional.Whatever

happened to making plans for your own care so you won't burden others? That is

not reasonable!!!!!!

>

***It means so much to read that - that it is dysfunctional to expect another

person to give up their life for you. I always thought so, but I was

brainwashed with it being a " good daughter " to sacrifice. And then my inner

doubts come up because it's not like either of them are expecting me to live

with them and do nursing care for them. The expectation is that I should be

local to them, provide for their social needs, be on call for emergencies....and

with normal people with a non-painful history maybe that wouldn't suck the soul

out of me. As it is even phone calls can trigger me and leave me needing days

to recover.

> And it's just not rational,either.You are *not* crazy cold hearted or

selfish to not want to totally sacrifice yourself to two people who could have

made arrangements for their own elder care.Millions of people do that every

day,all the time,without guilting their " last living relatives " .You just don't

deserve that.You truly do want to do right by them,but they also have to stop

asking for the moon and expecting you to deliver it.

>

Ahhh, but my aunt doesn't think she's asking for the moon. (We'll leave my nada

out of this for now) She just wants to be near family as she gets older,

doesn't want to be the primary contact for her sister...after all that's *my*

job in her mind. And now in a new horrible twist that's happened just in the

last couple days it's been revealed she's considering moving after she retires

to *my city* since I won't come to her. There's also a chance she may take

early retirement within the next year. And since that would leave my nada

alone many states away creating even greater pressure for my nada to move - also

to my city. I may have to leave - a place I'd been hoping to settle long-term.

I'm freaking out *a lot* right now as I see the careful balance that allows

these relationships to be possible at all teetering on the edge.

Thanks for listening,

[Guest guest]

If it helps, my FOO doesn't live far from me, about 45 min drive. And I

haven't seen any of them in years. NC can be done, even in proximity.

XOXO sorry for your pain

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:21 AM, climberkayak wrote:

>

>

> Hi , replies inline after the ***

>

>

>

> >

> > Thanks,,your post validates me too because I also did much " critical

> stuff that made a difference in important outcomes " for fada and got zero

> credit for it from anyone in the FOO.It's just amazing how simplistic their

> notions of " support " are.

> >

> ***I know, I remember your accounts of all you did for your fada at the end

> - there should have been HUGE amounts of credit to you. I find with my FOO

> they seem to have some sort of aversion to giving me credit for things

> involving them or other things I might accomplish. I wonder if you relate?

> It's like a silent conspiracy that they insist on not allowing information

> to exist that would change your image or role.

>

>

> > Making a big show! Lol...Before fada died he gave my brother instructions

> to absolutely make sure one of my cousins got the brand new Apple computer

> he had bought,as if this was really important.My brother actually spirited

> it out of the house in a hurry as if I would steal it--this being of course

> the very last thought from my mind after having done the serious sh*t work

> for the past few days of nursing fada while he died.Not to mention that I

> could have bought myself a new computer if I wanted one anyway....it was

> just so...ridiculous...and my cousin had actually done *nothing*--I mean

> *nothing*--ever for fada except be impressed with his frigging computer,so

> he was rewarding her for pumping up his ego.I had done so much for him over

> the past few years,at times foolishly running myself into the ground trying

> to " earn " his love and approval by doing for him and silly silly me: all I

> really had to do was make him feel like the coolest dude in the world,forget

> about pesky practical ego downers such as keeping doctor's appointments or

> actually following doctor's advice when after all fada knows everything.He

> even bought a really cool computer,hey,wow! And when my cousin recognized

> that all important fact,she was really there for him,much more than I ever

> was...

> >

>

> *** Oh yes, the ego stroking distanct relative or stranger is cherished

> beyond all measure! This phenomenon has happened with my FOO as well and it

> makes me just steam with anger. Not healthy. You were there in real terms to

> help your fada with what mattered, but yet rewarding this cousin was such a

> priority to him while at the same time shutting you out of the will? I guess

> you don't call him a fada for nothing.

>

>

> > I'm sorry your aunt puts such a heavy trip on you and that what is good

> in your relationship can't simply be good without the pressure of irrational

> expectations.It's really not fair that you're expected to take care of

> her,too.That would definitely be a huge pressure.Like I said

> before,expecting anyone to give up their life for you is extremely

> dysfunctional.Whatever happened to making plans for your own care so you

> won't burden others? That is not reasonable!!!!!!

> >

> ***It means so much to read that - that it is dysfunctional to expect

> another person to give up their life for you. I always thought so, but I was

> brainwashed with it being a " good daughter " to sacrifice. And then my inner

> doubts come up because it's not like either of them are expecting me to live

> with them and do nursing care for them. The expectation is that I should be

> local to them, provide for their social needs, be on call for

> emergencies....and with normal people with a non-painful history maybe that

> wouldn't suck the soul out of me. As it is even phone calls can trigger me

> and leave me needing days to recover.

>

>

> > And it's just not rational,either.You are *not* crazy cold hearted or

> selfish to not want to totally sacrifice yourself to two people who could

> have made arrangements for their own elder care.Millions of people do that

> every day,all the time,without guilting their " last living relatives " .You

> just don't deserve that.You truly do want to do right by them,but they also

> have to stop asking for the moon and expecting you to deliver it.

> >

>

> Ahhh, but my aunt doesn't think she's asking for the moon. (We'll leave my

> nada out of this for now) She just wants to be near family as she gets

> older, doesn't want to be the primary contact for her sister...after all

> that's *my* job in her mind. And now in a new horrible twist that's happened

> just in the last couple days it's been revealed she's considering moving

> after she retires to *my city* since I won't come to her. There's also a

> chance she may take early retirement within the next year. And since that

> would leave my nada alone many states away creating even greater pressure

> for my nada to move - also to my city. I may have to leave - a place I'd

> been hoping to settle long-term. I'm freaking out *a lot* right now as I see

> the careful balance that allows these relationships to be possible at all

> teetering on the edge.

>

> Thanks for listening,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If it helps, my FOO doesn't live far from me, about 45 min drive. And I

haven't seen any of them in years. NC can be done, even in proximity.

XOXO sorry for your pain

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:21 AM, climberkayak wrote:

>

>

> Hi , replies inline after the ***

>

>

>

> >

> > Thanks,,your post validates me too because I also did much " critical

> stuff that made a difference in important outcomes " for fada and got zero

> credit for it from anyone in the FOO.It's just amazing how simplistic their

> notions of " support " are.

> >

> ***I know, I remember your accounts of all you did for your fada at the end

> - there should have been HUGE amounts of credit to you. I find with my FOO

> they seem to have some sort of aversion to giving me credit for things

> involving them or other things I might accomplish. I wonder if you relate?

> It's like a silent conspiracy that they insist on not allowing information

> to exist that would change your image or role.

>

>

> > Making a big show! Lol...Before fada died he gave my brother instructions

> to absolutely make sure one of my cousins got the brand new Apple computer

> he had bought,as if this was really important.My brother actually spirited

> it out of the house in a hurry as if I would steal it--this being of course

> the very last thought from my mind after having done the serious sh*t work

> for the past few days of nursing fada while he died.Not to mention that I

> could have bought myself a new computer if I wanted one anyway....it was

> just so...ridiculous...and my cousin had actually done *nothing*--I mean

> *nothing*--ever for fada except be impressed with his frigging computer,so

> he was rewarding her for pumping up his ego.I had done so much for him over

> the past few years,at times foolishly running myself into the ground trying

> to " earn " his love and approval by doing for him and silly silly me: all I

> really had to do was make him feel like the coolest dude in the world,forget

> about pesky practical ego downers such as keeping doctor's appointments or

> actually following doctor's advice when after all fada knows everything.He

> even bought a really cool computer,hey,wow! And when my cousin recognized

> that all important fact,she was really there for him,much more than I ever

> was...

> >

>

> *** Oh yes, the ego stroking distanct relative or stranger is cherished

> beyond all measure! This phenomenon has happened with my FOO as well and it

> makes me just steam with anger. Not healthy. You were there in real terms to

> help your fada with what mattered, but yet rewarding this cousin was such a

> priority to him while at the same time shutting you out of the will? I guess

> you don't call him a fada for nothing.

>

>

> > I'm sorry your aunt puts such a heavy trip on you and that what is good

> in your relationship can't simply be good without the pressure of irrational

> expectations.It's really not fair that you're expected to take care of

> her,too.That would definitely be a huge pressure.Like I said

> before,expecting anyone to give up their life for you is extremely

> dysfunctional.Whatever happened to making plans for your own care so you

> won't burden others? That is not reasonable!!!!!!

> >

> ***It means so much to read that - that it is dysfunctional to expect

> another person to give up their life for you. I always thought so, but I was

> brainwashed with it being a " good daughter " to sacrifice. And then my inner

> doubts come up because it's not like either of them are expecting me to live

> with them and do nursing care for them. The expectation is that I should be

> local to them, provide for their social needs, be on call for

> emergencies....and with normal people with a non-painful history maybe that

> wouldn't suck the soul out of me. As it is even phone calls can trigger me

> and leave me needing days to recover.

>

>

> > And it's just not rational,either.You are *not* crazy cold hearted or

> selfish to not want to totally sacrifice yourself to two people who could

> have made arrangements for their own elder care.Millions of people do that

> every day,all the time,without guilting their " last living relatives " .You

> just don't deserve that.You truly do want to do right by them,but they also

> have to stop asking for the moon and expecting you to deliver it.

> >

>

> Ahhh, but my aunt doesn't think she's asking for the moon. (We'll leave my

> nada out of this for now) She just wants to be near family as she gets

> older, doesn't want to be the primary contact for her sister...after all

> that's *my* job in her mind. And now in a new horrible twist that's happened

> just in the last couple days it's been revealed she's considering moving

> after she retires to *my city* since I won't come to her. There's also a

> chance she may take early retirement within the next year. And since that

> would leave my nada alone many states away creating even greater pressure

> for my nada to move - also to my city. I may have to leave - a place I'd

> been hoping to settle long-term. I'm freaking out *a lot* right now as I see

> the careful balance that allows these relationships to be possible at all

> teetering on the edge.

>

> Thanks for listening,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If it helps, my FOO doesn't live far from me, about 45 min drive. And I

haven't seen any of them in years. NC can be done, even in proximity.

XOXO sorry for your pain

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 12:21 AM, climberkayak wrote:

>

>

> Hi , replies inline after the ***

>

>

>

> >

> > Thanks,,your post validates me too because I also did much " critical

> stuff that made a difference in important outcomes " for fada and got zero

> credit for it from anyone in the FOO.It's just amazing how simplistic their

> notions of " support " are.

> >

> ***I know, I remember your accounts of all you did for your fada at the end

> - there should have been HUGE amounts of credit to you. I find with my FOO

> they seem to have some sort of aversion to giving me credit for things

> involving them or other things I might accomplish. I wonder if you relate?

> It's like a silent conspiracy that they insist on not allowing information

> to exist that would change your image or role.

>

>

> > Making a big show! Lol...Before fada died he gave my brother instructions

> to absolutely make sure one of my cousins got the brand new Apple computer

> he had bought,as if this was really important.My brother actually spirited

> it out of the house in a hurry as if I would steal it--this being of course

> the very last thought from my mind after having done the serious sh*t work

> for the past few days of nursing fada while he died.Not to mention that I

> could have bought myself a new computer if I wanted one anyway....it was

> just so...ridiculous...and my cousin had actually done *nothing*--I mean

> *nothing*--ever for fada except be impressed with his frigging computer,so

> he was rewarding her for pumping up his ego.I had done so much for him over

> the past few years,at times foolishly running myself into the ground trying

> to " earn " his love and approval by doing for him and silly silly me: all I

> really had to do was make him feel like the coolest dude in the world,forget

> about pesky practical ego downers such as keeping doctor's appointments or

> actually following doctor's advice when after all fada knows everything.He

> even bought a really cool computer,hey,wow! And when my cousin recognized

> that all important fact,she was really there for him,much more than I ever

> was...

> >

>

> *** Oh yes, the ego stroking distanct relative or stranger is cherished

> beyond all measure! This phenomenon has happened with my FOO as well and it

> makes me just steam with anger. Not healthy. You were there in real terms to

> help your fada with what mattered, but yet rewarding this cousin was such a

> priority to him while at the same time shutting you out of the will? I guess

> you don't call him a fada for nothing.

>

>

> > I'm sorry your aunt puts such a heavy trip on you and that what is good

> in your relationship can't simply be good without the pressure of irrational

> expectations.It's really not fair that you're expected to take care of

> her,too.That would definitely be a huge pressure.Like I said

> before,expecting anyone to give up their life for you is extremely

> dysfunctional.Whatever happened to making plans for your own care so you

> won't burden others? That is not reasonable!!!!!!

> >

> ***It means so much to read that - that it is dysfunctional to expect

> another person to give up their life for you. I always thought so, but I was

> brainwashed with it being a " good daughter " to sacrifice. And then my inner

> doubts come up because it's not like either of them are expecting me to live

> with them and do nursing care for them. The expectation is that I should be

> local to them, provide for their social needs, be on call for

> emergencies....and with normal people with a non-painful history maybe that

> wouldn't suck the soul out of me. As it is even phone calls can trigger me

> and leave me needing days to recover.

>

>

> > And it's just not rational,either.You are *not* crazy cold hearted or

> selfish to not want to totally sacrifice yourself to two people who could

> have made arrangements for their own elder care.Millions of people do that

> every day,all the time,without guilting their " last living relatives " .You

> just don't deserve that.You truly do want to do right by them,but they also

> have to stop asking for the moon and expecting you to deliver it.

> >

>

> Ahhh, but my aunt doesn't think she's asking for the moon. (We'll leave my

> nada out of this for now) She just wants to be near family as she gets

> older, doesn't want to be the primary contact for her sister...after all

> that's *my* job in her mind. And now in a new horrible twist that's happened

> just in the last couple days it's been revealed she's considering moving

> after she retires to *my city* since I won't come to her. There's also a

> chance she may take early retirement within the next year. And since that

> would leave my nada alone many states away creating even greater pressure

> for my nada to move - also to my city. I may have to leave - a place I'd

> been hoping to settle long-term. I'm freaking out *a lot* right now as I see

> the careful balance that allows these relationships to be possible at all

> teetering on the edge.

>

> Thanks for listening,

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Oh,yeah,I relate to the " silent conspiracy " ! I think it can take on

surreal proportions,too.It's really weird.Like,with fada,I did many things for

him long before his final stay in the hospital--he had so many medical issues

(most of them complications from his diabetes that he refused to properly

manage)so the list is long but involves ferrying him to doctor's

appointments,doing the laundry and cooking for him and nada when he was

incapacitated from some procedure he'd had to have,etc.Nada was a useless

caregiver--she had little patience and got angry with him so what I was also

doing was keeping things smooth and peaceful.It's a long story because there's

stuff I did for nada too because she had become quite low functioning.But in

short *all* of it seemed to just go into this abyss of oblivion.What I failed to

understand in my case is that I am the all bad and will always be.It wasn't

going to matter how much good I did for them since me being " good " at all was

something they absolutely had to deny.I could have tried and tried and tried to

prove to them that I truly cared and that I am truly a kind hearted person but

they were *never* going to admit that to themselves because if they did then

they'd also have to admit to themselves that they had been wrong and that what

they had believed for years and years had been wrong.Of course they weren't

going to do that: their positive self image was based on *me* being bad and

*them* being good.

A couple of times they both drove me to LC and then NC.They recalled

those " abandonments " and completely forgot everything I had done to help them

out.Not that they ever acknowledged my help anyway when I was actually helping

them.Or ever realized that they had driven me away with their own insufferable

behavior.

My brother did this,too,displayed that aversion to giving me any credit

for my decency.Sorry this is turning into a rant but I am working my way with

this towards addressing your situation as well.The day before fada died the

nurse at the hospice told me she had seen it before and fada only had hours left

to live.So although my brother had been a jerk to me and had totally left me to

care for fada alone,I wanted to do the ethical thing and I called him to let him

know.My reasoning was that if it was me,I would want to be kept informed to

allow me to decide what I wanted to do or not do.But when I told him what the

nurse had said,he snapped nastily at me, " I have no desire to watch Dad

die " .Implying that *I* did and that was the only reason I was staying at the

hospice.I mean,I know my brother and it was clear that he was interpreting my

attempt at keeping him in the loop as some kind of threat--I had even prefaced

the information I was sharing with " Just do whatever you need to do to get

through this,I know it's hard,and I won't judge you no matter what you decide to

do and if you need to stay at home it's ok but I want you to know that the nurse

told me today that... " And *still* he snapped at me.

I then called my aunt (the one who thinks she's the " moral force " of the

FOO) to tell her the same thing since she had returned to her home in the

neighboring state.She snapped at me, " If I want to know anything,I'll ask Bill "

(my brother).Who wouldn't have known what was happening anyway since he had also

returned to his home an hour and a half away.It was all I could do not to tell

her to eff off.There's a long story with her too and she had witnessed me " being

there " for both of my parents as well as my grandmother,but all of that had

apparently gone into that abyss of oblivion.

I then called fada's " best friend " ,this nice guy who was the only one

of his " friends " who had visited him every day at the hospital and then the

hospice.Fada had been telling him crap about me and how much I " hate " him,so

when we had first encountered eachother at the hospice this friend had been very

surprised to see me there.But he was a normal person,basically,and warmly told

me he was glad I was there and just immediately stopped judging me.When I got

him on the phone that evening he sincerely thanked me for letting him know and

then tearfully said he would make plans to get to the hospice early the next

morning to say his goodbyes,which he did.He totally understood why I had wanted

to let him know and he appreciated it.

Huge difference between talking to fada's friend,who took my basic good

will as a matter of course,and talking to my brother and my aunt who did nothing

but project their own negativity onto me.Two people who had left a dying man

*alone* in his hospice bed--and they were on good terms with him!!!!!!! My aunt

and my brother were like *zombies*.

Ok,so,back to your situation...Like you said,if these were " regularly

functioning " people you're talking about and if you didn't have such a painful

history,it would be so very different.But you're dealing with dysfunctional

people who don't even get how dysfunctional they are.That's the crazy making

thing: they think their dysfunction is ok; they think they're " normal " ! So how

do you even communicate properly with them when you can't even have a *real*

conversation with them?

I have to say...my parents didn't expect me to live with

them,either,but since I was local,I was supposed to " be there " for emergencies

but because they are both nuts even not living with them wasn't enough to keep

it all from going south.I made a COLLOSAL mistake when I returned to the States

from London and opted to live near them.I knew they were sick but didn't know

yet about personality disorders so I didn't realize what I was truly dealing

with.I thought we could work it out.I wanted to *try* to have a relationship

with them and at the time it seemed like all the years I had lived abroad had

done us all good,like the space and the distance had put the past to rest.Then

after I came back and spent time in their presence I began to slowly lose my

identity--it happened so gradually and was so insidious that it wasn't until

after fada died that I even recognized the extent of it.More trauma got piled on

top of trauma I already had,more junk to process that I didn't *need*.You know

already that even phone calls are so triggering you need days to recover.That

seems to me like a definite signal that living near them and being " on call " for

the things you mentioned is *not* going to be good for you.

It isn't your fault they are the way they are.You know that you can't

fix them.You know what the danger is,so already you're ahead of where I was when

I made the grave error of allowing them back into my life.They chipped away at

my life and my self and my soul--you're damned right it sucks the soul out of

you! Because no matter what they *say*,what they *do* is going to be more of the

same old shit,same as it ever was,because *they haven't changed* from how they

were when they damaged you growing up.The scenario might be different but the

dynamics are the same.

About the brain washing...Healthy parents don't demand sacrifice of their

children to the degree of having them accomodate the parents' needs when the

parents can actually do for themselves,such as providing for their social

needs.If a parent acutally raised their kid well and provided for *their* needs

like instilling in them a solid sense of self worth so that they were able to

have their own fulfilling social and romantic life; so that they were able to

achieve their own educational and career goals; so that they were able to go out

into the world and live a personally satisfying,independent existence---and if

that kid turned their back on such a parent during an actual crisis like a

serious health or financial emergency and refused to lend any support,ok,then

you could call that callous abandonment of the parent by the adult child who had

the resources to be of assistance...and when your parent has done right by you

all of your life,it's only natural that you'd want to do right by them in

return,and if you don't,then yes you are the one with a problem.But that's not

the case with us.The people I know who have healthy parents aren't expected to

" sacrifice " for them,to give up some part of their life for them,to accomodate

their parents' needs.*If* their parent has a real crisis,they will naturally be

there for them,but not in a *self* sacrificing way that destroys their quality

of life--and their parents would be horrified if the crisis was so devastating

that that came to pass,that their child's life would be so terribly

impacted.Healthy parents *want* their children to thrive and *don't* want to

burden them unnecessarily.

The problem with our parents and our FOOs is that they mistakenly

believe they are healthy when they're not.Healthy parents know the hard work

they put in to give their children the tools they needed to be successful in

life and simply take pride and joy in a job well done--that hard work was part

of the responsibilty they accepted by becoming parents and seeing their adult

children do well in life is their reward,not an eternal debt their children owe

to them.Our personality disordered parents/FOOs never did that hard work,but

they delude themselves that they did.They actually have no clue what that hard

work would have entailed.They believe that we owe them for something they never

even did,raising us.Healthy parents lovingly give their children wings--our

unhealthy parents bind us to them then brag that they taught us to fly then call

us back if we soar too high above them then complain that we flew too far

away.It's like: I taught you how to fly now how dare you exercize your

wings...while we know that they clipped them a long time ago and that if we

managed to soar at all,it was in spite of them...But our PD parents think they

did the same for us as healthy parents and they just can't see the

difference.They totally don't get the disconnect between deluding themselves

that they gave us wings and taught us to fly like healthy parents and condemning

us for flying away even though we struggle to do so on wings they clipped

although they will deny that they actually clipped them forever.Point out that

disconnect to them and they get so affronted because their illusions about

themselves as " great parents " are at stake.

Imagine that you'd had a healthy,self affirming relationship with your

nada and your aunt.Having either of them living nearby would be just more of the

same: good,healthy,affirming and mutually enjoyable.Not a sacrifice.Not a

drag.Not a head trip.Not a burden.

And not a big deal for any of you because it would all just flow

naturally with none of you having heavy expectations of any of you " owing "

anything or being " owed " anything.

Perhaps to your aunt and your nada,you living locally to them seems like

it would be such a " natural " relationship *but in reality* it wouldn't be.You're

right here,,your misgivings are correct.The relationship you have with them

is *not* the same as what you would have had if they had been healthy,not at

all.

Of course having contact with them is triggering for you: they don't even

know what's really going on...what really went on...but they think everything is

fine and that they're just fine.That everything is fine the way it is when it

just isn't.So fine,in fact,that you should all live nearby.

And since you won't come to them,they'll come to you.It's not your " job "

as a daughter to hover like an angel over your nada.It's *her* job as an adult

to take care of *herself*.You're not her frigging guardian angel,you're her

daughter who has a right to her own separate existence.Again,if we were talking

about a normally functioning mother,maybe living close by would be cool for you

both because you would both still have your own healthy personal space.But she's

a nada and by wanting you nearby she is wanting you to hover in a " suspended in

the mid air of your own life " kind of way.Even if she *says* it would just be

for when and if she needs you for something,the intent is wanting a guardian

angel.The suggestion is,still,that she can't do the job of taking care of

herself.It sounds to me that,for now,she *could* do that if only she

*would*--and when it does get to the point when she really can't,you certainly

aren't going to just abandon her to her fate with no one to help her.

What your aunt is doing with considering a move to your city after she

retires is actually pushing a confrontation.It's bizarre that she wants you to

be near your nada yet what in the hell is she planning on doing by moving near

you herself and leaving your nada behind??? I mean,that's really weird.To then

force your nada to have to move to be near you,too? Did she even say that,that

she's considering this move *because* you won't come to her? And then to cap it

off,she tells you she's also considering taking early retirement?

Well,you know what,she can retire whenever she wants to.That's her

decision.It has nothing to do with you.Like your nada,she is also an adult.She

can also decide to live wherever she wants to in her retirement.That also has

nothing to do with you.

However,by her stated intention (threat?) of moving to the city you live

in after her retirement,she is *making* it be about you.This is very

unfair.Because her own decisions about her own life should have nothing to do

with you.What she is doing is close to stalking behavior.

Her retirement decisions should also have nothing to do with

manipulating your nada into following her.It's like she wants to force your

nada's hand because she thinks your nada hasn't been forceful enough in

convincing you to move to be near them.

What the hell is this? They can't live without you? Why is your aunt so

doggedly obsessed with this " last living relative " thing? It's really

dysfunctional.It's not like there aren't services for them that they could avail

themselves of.It's not like the people who provide these services are going to

say to them, " No ma'am,we can't help you because you're not a relative. " Your

aunt has some serious issues with this whole " relatives " thing.My nada's family

is Italian and I could write an even looonger post about how she believes that

" only your family will ever be there for you " but what your aunt is doing is

even beyond how the Italian side of my FOO operates.

What would they do if you told them flat out: No,I can't live near you.I

*will* provide home care through an agency for you if you need it,but I can't

live near you.I will come to visit you,but I can't live near you.I will help you

to make arrangements for going into a nursing home when the time comes,but I

can't live near you.I am not going to abandon you,but I can't live near you.

Would that be like dropping a bomb?

And don't you think that,on some level,they already know that? So that is

why your aunt is now forcing the issue,as if she could force you to relent by

coming to you?

And if you cannot relent,then she is forcing you to be " responsible " for

*her* decision,which again,isn't fair.Because if she pulls up *her own* stakes

and moves to you and you refuse to play along,that makes you the bad guy.She has

no right to set you up like that and to emotionally blackmail you into either

accepting her terms or being the villain.Or forcing you to flee!

Your aunt might have been helpful to you in some ways you needed when you

were young,as the " saner " one,but what she is planning on doing with this move

isn't helpful to you at all.It is still possible,I think,to privately honor to

yourself how she was good for you when you needed her to be as a child without

unnecessarily guilting yourself now about truly needing to have a boundary

here.If that's what you're doing,feeling guilty in any way.You don't owe her.

There's still time to brainstorm on this.It's not like she's retiring

this week,right? So take a deep breath...You've got time to figure this out.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Oh,yeah,I relate to the " silent conspiracy " ! I think it can take on

surreal proportions,too.It's really weird.Like,with fada,I did many things for

him long before his final stay in the hospital--he had so many medical issues

(most of them complications from his diabetes that he refused to properly

manage)so the list is long but involves ferrying him to doctor's

appointments,doing the laundry and cooking for him and nada when he was

incapacitated from some procedure he'd had to have,etc.Nada was a useless

caregiver--she had little patience and got angry with him so what I was also

doing was keeping things smooth and peaceful.It's a long story because there's

stuff I did for nada too because she had become quite low functioning.But in

short *all* of it seemed to just go into this abyss of oblivion.What I failed to

understand in my case is that I am the all bad and will always be.It wasn't

going to matter how much good I did for them since me being " good " at all was

something they absolutely had to deny.I could have tried and tried and tried to

prove to them that I truly cared and that I am truly a kind hearted person but

they were *never* going to admit that to themselves because if they did then

they'd also have to admit to themselves that they had been wrong and that what

they had believed for years and years had been wrong.Of course they weren't

going to do that: their positive self image was based on *me* being bad and

*them* being good.

A couple of times they both drove me to LC and then NC.They recalled

those " abandonments " and completely forgot everything I had done to help them

out.Not that they ever acknowledged my help anyway when I was actually helping

them.Or ever realized that they had driven me away with their own insufferable

behavior.

My brother did this,too,displayed that aversion to giving me any credit

for my decency.Sorry this is turning into a rant but I am working my way with

this towards addressing your situation as well.The day before fada died the

nurse at the hospice told me she had seen it before and fada only had hours left

to live.So although my brother had been a jerk to me and had totally left me to

care for fada alone,I wanted to do the ethical thing and I called him to let him

know.My reasoning was that if it was me,I would want to be kept informed to

allow me to decide what I wanted to do or not do.But when I told him what the

nurse had said,he snapped nastily at me, " I have no desire to watch Dad

die " .Implying that *I* did and that was the only reason I was staying at the

hospice.I mean,I know my brother and it was clear that he was interpreting my

attempt at keeping him in the loop as some kind of threat--I had even prefaced

the information I was sharing with " Just do whatever you need to do to get

through this,I know it's hard,and I won't judge you no matter what you decide to

do and if you need to stay at home it's ok but I want you to know that the nurse

told me today that... " And *still* he snapped at me.

I then called my aunt (the one who thinks she's the " moral force " of the

FOO) to tell her the same thing since she had returned to her home in the

neighboring state.She snapped at me, " If I want to know anything,I'll ask Bill "

(my brother).Who wouldn't have known what was happening anyway since he had also

returned to his home an hour and a half away.It was all I could do not to tell

her to eff off.There's a long story with her too and she had witnessed me " being

there " for both of my parents as well as my grandmother,but all of that had

apparently gone into that abyss of oblivion.

I then called fada's " best friend " ,this nice guy who was the only one

of his " friends " who had visited him every day at the hospital and then the

hospice.Fada had been telling him crap about me and how much I " hate " him,so

when we had first encountered eachother at the hospice this friend had been very

surprised to see me there.But he was a normal person,basically,and warmly told

me he was glad I was there and just immediately stopped judging me.When I got

him on the phone that evening he sincerely thanked me for letting him know and

then tearfully said he would make plans to get to the hospice early the next

morning to say his goodbyes,which he did.He totally understood why I had wanted

to let him know and he appreciated it.

Huge difference between talking to fada's friend,who took my basic good

will as a matter of course,and talking to my brother and my aunt who did nothing

but project their own negativity onto me.Two people who had left a dying man

*alone* in his hospice bed--and they were on good terms with him!!!!!!! My aunt

and my brother were like *zombies*.

Ok,so,back to your situation...Like you said,if these were " regularly

functioning " people you're talking about and if you didn't have such a painful

history,it would be so very different.But you're dealing with dysfunctional

people who don't even get how dysfunctional they are.That's the crazy making

thing: they think their dysfunction is ok; they think they're " normal " ! So how

do you even communicate properly with them when you can't even have a *real*

conversation with them?

I have to say...my parents didn't expect me to live with

them,either,but since I was local,I was supposed to " be there " for emergencies

but because they are both nuts even not living with them wasn't enough to keep

it all from going south.I made a COLLOSAL mistake when I returned to the States

from London and opted to live near them.I knew they were sick but didn't know

yet about personality disorders so I didn't realize what I was truly dealing

with.I thought we could work it out.I wanted to *try* to have a relationship

with them and at the time it seemed like all the years I had lived abroad had

done us all good,like the space and the distance had put the past to rest.Then

after I came back and spent time in their presence I began to slowly lose my

identity--it happened so gradually and was so insidious that it wasn't until

after fada died that I even recognized the extent of it.More trauma got piled on

top of trauma I already had,more junk to process that I didn't *need*.You know

already that even phone calls are so triggering you need days to recover.That

seems to me like a definite signal that living near them and being " on call " for

the things you mentioned is *not* going to be good for you.

It isn't your fault they are the way they are.You know that you can't

fix them.You know what the danger is,so already you're ahead of where I was when

I made the grave error of allowing them back into my life.They chipped away at

my life and my self and my soul--you're damned right it sucks the soul out of

you! Because no matter what they *say*,what they *do* is going to be more of the

same old shit,same as it ever was,because *they haven't changed* from how they

were when they damaged you growing up.The scenario might be different but the

dynamics are the same.

About the brain washing...Healthy parents don't demand sacrifice of their

children to the degree of having them accomodate the parents' needs when the

parents can actually do for themselves,such as providing for their social

needs.If a parent acutally raised their kid well and provided for *their* needs

like instilling in them a solid sense of self worth so that they were able to

have their own fulfilling social and romantic life; so that they were able to

achieve their own educational and career goals; so that they were able to go out

into the world and live a personally satisfying,independent existence---and if

that kid turned their back on such a parent during an actual crisis like a

serious health or financial emergency and refused to lend any support,ok,then

you could call that callous abandonment of the parent by the adult child who had

the resources to be of assistance...and when your parent has done right by you

all of your life,it's only natural that you'd want to do right by them in

return,and if you don't,then yes you are the one with a problem.But that's not

the case with us.The people I know who have healthy parents aren't expected to

" sacrifice " for them,to give up some part of their life for them,to accomodate

their parents' needs.*If* their parent has a real crisis,they will naturally be

there for them,but not in a *self* sacrificing way that destroys their quality

of life--and their parents would be horrified if the crisis was so devastating

that that came to pass,that their child's life would be so terribly

impacted.Healthy parents *want* their children to thrive and *don't* want to

burden them unnecessarily.

The problem with our parents and our FOOs is that they mistakenly

believe they are healthy when they're not.Healthy parents know the hard work

they put in to give their children the tools they needed to be successful in

life and simply take pride and joy in a job well done--that hard work was part

of the responsibilty they accepted by becoming parents and seeing their adult

children do well in life is their reward,not an eternal debt their children owe

to them.Our personality disordered parents/FOOs never did that hard work,but

they delude themselves that they did.They actually have no clue what that hard

work would have entailed.They believe that we owe them for something they never

even did,raising us.Healthy parents lovingly give their children wings--our

unhealthy parents bind us to them then brag that they taught us to fly then call

us back if we soar too high above them then complain that we flew too far

away.It's like: I taught you how to fly now how dare you exercize your

wings...while we know that they clipped them a long time ago and that if we

managed to soar at all,it was in spite of them...But our PD parents think they

did the same for us as healthy parents and they just can't see the

difference.They totally don't get the disconnect between deluding themselves

that they gave us wings and taught us to fly like healthy parents and condemning

us for flying away even though we struggle to do so on wings they clipped

although they will deny that they actually clipped them forever.Point out that

disconnect to them and they get so affronted because their illusions about

themselves as " great parents " are at stake.

Imagine that you'd had a healthy,self affirming relationship with your

nada and your aunt.Having either of them living nearby would be just more of the

same: good,healthy,affirming and mutually enjoyable.Not a sacrifice.Not a

drag.Not a head trip.Not a burden.

And not a big deal for any of you because it would all just flow

naturally with none of you having heavy expectations of any of you " owing "

anything or being " owed " anything.

Perhaps to your aunt and your nada,you living locally to them seems like

it would be such a " natural " relationship *but in reality* it wouldn't be.You're

right here,,your misgivings are correct.The relationship you have with them

is *not* the same as what you would have had if they had been healthy,not at

all.

Of course having contact with them is triggering for you: they don't even

know what's really going on...what really went on...but they think everything is

fine and that they're just fine.That everything is fine the way it is when it

just isn't.So fine,in fact,that you should all live nearby.

And since you won't come to them,they'll come to you.It's not your " job "

as a daughter to hover like an angel over your nada.It's *her* job as an adult

to take care of *herself*.You're not her frigging guardian angel,you're her

daughter who has a right to her own separate existence.Again,if we were talking

about a normally functioning mother,maybe living close by would be cool for you

both because you would both still have your own healthy personal space.But she's

a nada and by wanting you nearby she is wanting you to hover in a " suspended in

the mid air of your own life " kind of way.Even if she *says* it would just be

for when and if she needs you for something,the intent is wanting a guardian

angel.The suggestion is,still,that she can't do the job of taking care of

herself.It sounds to me that,for now,she *could* do that if only she

*would*--and when it does get to the point when she really can't,you certainly

aren't going to just abandon her to her fate with no one to help her.

What your aunt is doing with considering a move to your city after she

retires is actually pushing a confrontation.It's bizarre that she wants you to

be near your nada yet what in the hell is she planning on doing by moving near

you herself and leaving your nada behind??? I mean,that's really weird.To then

force your nada to have to move to be near you,too? Did she even say that,that

she's considering this move *because* you won't come to her? And then to cap it

off,she tells you she's also considering taking early retirement?

Well,you know what,she can retire whenever she wants to.That's her

decision.It has nothing to do with you.Like your nada,she is also an adult.She

can also decide to live wherever she wants to in her retirement.That also has

nothing to do with you.

However,by her stated intention (threat?) of moving to the city you live

in after her retirement,she is *making* it be about you.This is very

unfair.Because her own decisions about her own life should have nothing to do

with you.What she is doing is close to stalking behavior.

Her retirement decisions should also have nothing to do with

manipulating your nada into following her.It's like she wants to force your

nada's hand because she thinks your nada hasn't been forceful enough in

convincing you to move to be near them.

What the hell is this? They can't live without you? Why is your aunt so

doggedly obsessed with this " last living relative " thing? It's really

dysfunctional.It's not like there aren't services for them that they could avail

themselves of.It's not like the people who provide these services are going to

say to them, " No ma'am,we can't help you because you're not a relative. " Your

aunt has some serious issues with this whole " relatives " thing.My nada's family

is Italian and I could write an even looonger post about how she believes that

" only your family will ever be there for you " but what your aunt is doing is

even beyond how the Italian side of my FOO operates.

What would they do if you told them flat out: No,I can't live near you.I

*will* provide home care through an agency for you if you need it,but I can't

live near you.I will come to visit you,but I can't live near you.I will help you

to make arrangements for going into a nursing home when the time comes,but I

can't live near you.I am not going to abandon you,but I can't live near you.

Would that be like dropping a bomb?

And don't you think that,on some level,they already know that? So that is

why your aunt is now forcing the issue,as if she could force you to relent by

coming to you?

And if you cannot relent,then she is forcing you to be " responsible " for

*her* decision,which again,isn't fair.Because if she pulls up *her own* stakes

and moves to you and you refuse to play along,that makes you the bad guy.She has

no right to set you up like that and to emotionally blackmail you into either

accepting her terms or being the villain.Or forcing you to flee!

Your aunt might have been helpful to you in some ways you needed when you

were young,as the " saner " one,but what she is planning on doing with this move

isn't helpful to you at all.It is still possible,I think,to privately honor to

yourself how she was good for you when you needed her to be as a child without

unnecessarily guilting yourself now about truly needing to have a boundary

here.If that's what you're doing,feeling guilty in any way.You don't owe her.

There's still time to brainstorm on this.It's not like she's retiring

this week,right? So take a deep breath...You've got time to figure this out.

[Guest guest]

Hi Girlscout, it's good to know local NC can be done, but I just really hope

and pray to keep the " local " out of it. I think it would take nerves of steel!

>

> If it helps, my FOO doesn't live far from me, about 45 min drive. And I

> haven't seen any of them in years. NC can be done, even in proximity.

>

> XOXO sorry for your pain

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , thank you for your in depth reply - I'm a bit too fuzzy brained to

muster an organized reply but I'll get there!

I must share this though, what you wrote here " What the hell is this? They can't

live without you? Why is your aunt so doggedly obsessed with this " last living

relative " thing? " just loved it. Actually you got me to laugh at the

absurdity of it all. I mean really, what am I - the last samurai? the last of

the mohicans? what? And here's some triple irony whipped cream on that - a

few months ago when I was having a terribly rough patch and actually tried to

get my aunt to be supportive of me she actually said I was being too needy.

*ME* Of course all her massive expectations aren't her being needy at

all...I'm sure she thinks she has *right* to expect all of that. BAH

More later,

[Guest guest]

Hi , thank you for your in depth reply - I'm a bit too fuzzy brained to

muster an organized reply but I'll get there!

I must share this though, what you wrote here " What the hell is this? They can't

live without you? Why is your aunt so doggedly obsessed with this " last living

relative " thing? " just loved it. Actually you got me to laugh at the

absurdity of it all. I mean really, what am I - the last samurai? the last of

the mohicans? what? And here's some triple irony whipped cream on that - a

few months ago when I was having a terribly rough patch and actually tried to

get my aunt to be supportive of me she actually said I was being too needy.

*ME* Of course all her massive expectations aren't her being needy at

all...I'm sure she thinks she has *right* to expect all of that. BAH

More later,

[Guest guest]

,I'm glad my post got you to laugh It's good to be able to just laugh at

the absurdity of it all at times,if you can.

Don't worry about mustering an organized reply to my (really long!) post if

you've got other thoughts or things going on by now,it's alright.It's cool.Of

course,if you want to say more,go ahead Your call.

Your aunt does act as if you're the last viable member left standing from

some extinct tribe-- " last of the mohicans " lol.Her strange attitude reminds me

actually of stuff I've seen on the news about tiny remote villages in places

like Russia where everyone under fifty has left for " the big city " to pursue

better opportunities and there's only two or three elderly folks left in a

village that would otherwise be completely abandoned and deserted.The elderly

people who were left behind lamenting that there are no able bodied villagers to

tend the fields or the livestock so they're having to subsist on the eggs they

gather from their chickens or the potatoes and cabbages they gather from their

small vegetable plots--and that they will either have to suffer like that or

shuffle off to the big cities themselves to be taken in by family.In remote

areas of Russia,yeah,I can imagine elderly villagers having to fend for

themselves,but in whatever part of the States your aunt and nada live in,it

cannot possibly be so damned dire!

And her telling *you* that you were too needy--the chutzpah!

>

> Hi , thank you for your in depth reply - I'm a bit too fuzzy brained

to muster an organized reply but I'll get there!

>

> I must share this though, what you wrote here " What the hell is this? They

can't live without you? Why is your aunt so doggedly obsessed with this " last

living relative " thing? " just loved it. Actually you got me to laugh at the

absurdity of it all. I mean really, what am I - the last samurai? the last of

the mohicans? what? And here's some triple irony whipped cream on that - a

few months ago when I was having a terribly rough patch and actually tried to

get my aunt to be supportive of me she actually said I was being too needy.

*ME* Of course all her massive expectations aren't her being needy at

all...I'm sure she thinks she has *right* to expect all of that. BAH

>

> More later,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,I'm glad my post got you to laugh It's good to be able to just laugh at

the absurdity of it all at times,if you can.

Don't worry about mustering an organized reply to my (really long!) post if

you've got other thoughts or things going on by now,it's alright.It's cool.Of

course,if you want to say more,go ahead Your call.

Your aunt does act as if you're the last viable member left standing from

some extinct tribe-- " last of the mohicans " lol.Her strange attitude reminds me

actually of stuff I've seen on the news about tiny remote villages in places

like Russia where everyone under fifty has left for " the big city " to pursue

better opportunities and there's only two or three elderly folks left in a

village that would otherwise be completely abandoned and deserted.The elderly

people who were left behind lamenting that there are no able bodied villagers to

tend the fields or the livestock so they're having to subsist on the eggs they

gather from their chickens or the potatoes and cabbages they gather from their

small vegetable plots--and that they will either have to suffer like that or

shuffle off to the big cities themselves to be taken in by family.In remote

areas of Russia,yeah,I can imagine elderly villagers having to fend for

themselves,but in whatever part of the States your aunt and nada live in,it

cannot possibly be so damned dire!

And her telling *you* that you were too needy--the chutzpah!

>

> Hi , thank you for your in depth reply - I'm a bit too fuzzy brained

to muster an organized reply but I'll get there!

>

> I must share this though, what you wrote here " What the hell is this? They

can't live without you? Why is your aunt so doggedly obsessed with this " last

living relative " thing? " just loved it. Actually you got me to laugh at the

absurdity of it all. I mean really, what am I - the last samurai? the last of

the mohicans? what? And here's some triple irony whipped cream on that - a

few months ago when I was having a terribly rough patch and actually tried to

get my aunt to be supportive of me she actually said I was being too needy.

*ME* Of course all her massive expectations aren't her being needy at

all...I'm sure she thinks she has *right* to expect all of that. BAH

>

> More later,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just saw this message.

Yes, most definitely this happens with our family, too. My cousin is our

enforcer.

We're LC with her. My mother stays in touch with her and her mother out of

necessity, from time to time. I dislike her very much. VERY much. She's bossy

and, like your enforcer, because she chose to make certain sacrificial choices

in her life, EVERYONE has to do so now.

At my father's funeral, she made clear to me I would now have to take my mother

grocery shopping and do other stuff for her. She and her flying monkeys stayed

the whole damned wake. I wish they would have left. They were making me ill.

At least your aunt has more contact with you, it seems; but we hardly see my

cousin, so it's incredibly annoying to hear her shrill, harpy voice " advising "

me on how I need to care for my mother now.

She and I never just have a conversation. She always has to take on the role and

voice of a minor prophet.... " we're your FAMily! whether you like it or NOT! "

I ran into her at the grocery store about a year and a half ago and it couldn't

just be " hey, how's your family? good to see you, bye. " She starts in, " when

are you going to come by?? you know, the ones that are going to lose out are

YOUR kids. " So again, the prophet issues her proclamation AND she insults me

by saying that my kids will lose out in life because they will not have had the

incredible pleasure of being with her impeccably raised prophets-in-training. I

yessed her to death and got the hell out of there.

Why would I want to visit someone who commands me to do so?? Where is the

pleasure in that?

Enforcers: KISS MY ASS!!!!!

>

> I wonder how common this situation is. I've made up a term to describe my

aunt's role in the family - The Enforcer. She sees it as her job to enforce the

family values and morals as she is the head of the family. These values

include adult children living near aging relatives as to help them with

everything and be ready for any emergency. She did this herself at huge personal

sacrifice to be near my grandnada. I know this shares a lot with Flying Monkey

territory, but in this case my nada will be content and okay but the Enforcer is

always looking to make me feel guilty or take advantage of any upheaval in my

life to push me to move near my nada.

>

> I feel pretty confident about my plans to take care of my nada long-distance

as long as she can stay in her own home. I'm planning to help her in

coordinating increasing levels of home care with occasional visits from me to

check on things. But The Enforcer lives in the same town as my nada and thinks

I'm dumping it all on her - even though everything she does is voluntary and

mostly just social with my nada. In real practical terms the enforcer does very

little in helping my nada day-to-day. For example all of her light bulbs in

the ceiling fixtures are burnt out, but my nada won't ask my aunt because she

always says no to any similar request. And of course my nada won't ask the yard

guys to do it. So when I visit...odds are I will. At some point there'll just

be too many things and I'll have to confront my nada about finally having in

home help...so far her excuse to me is, oh but I have your aunt here.

>

> So I wonder does anyone have an enforcer in their family? Not someone who is

acting on behalf of your nada but has a very strong agenda of their own to

derail your distance or LC? How have you handled it? I really don't want to

lose my relationship with my aunt which once upon a time was better than this,

but I worry it may come to that.

>

> Thanks all,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just saw this message.

Yes, most definitely this happens with our family, too. My cousin is our

enforcer.

We're LC with her. My mother stays in touch with her and her mother out of

necessity, from time to time. I dislike her very much. VERY much. She's bossy

and, like your enforcer, because she chose to make certain sacrificial choices

in her life, EVERYONE has to do so now.

At my father's funeral, she made clear to me I would now have to take my mother

grocery shopping and do other stuff for her. She and her flying monkeys stayed

the whole damned wake. I wish they would have left. They were making me ill.

At least your aunt has more contact with you, it seems; but we hardly see my

cousin, so it's incredibly annoying to hear her shrill, harpy voice " advising "

me on how I need to care for my mother now.

She and I never just have a conversation. She always has to take on the role and

voice of a minor prophet.... " we're your FAMily! whether you like it or NOT! "

I ran into her at the grocery store about a year and a half ago and it couldn't

just be " hey, how's your family? good to see you, bye. " She starts in, " when

are you going to come by?? you know, the ones that are going to lose out are

YOUR kids. " So again, the prophet issues her proclamation AND she insults me

by saying that my kids will lose out in life because they will not have had the

incredible pleasure of being with her impeccably raised prophets-in-training. I

yessed her to death and got the hell out of there.

Why would I want to visit someone who commands me to do so?? Where is the

pleasure in that?

Enforcers: KISS MY ASS!!!!!

>

> I wonder how common this situation is. I've made up a term to describe my

aunt's role in the family - The Enforcer. She sees it as her job to enforce the

family values and morals as she is the head of the family. These values

include adult children living near aging relatives as to help them with

everything and be ready for any emergency. She did this herself at huge personal

sacrifice to be near my grandnada. I know this shares a lot with Flying Monkey

territory, but in this case my nada will be content and okay but the Enforcer is

always looking to make me feel guilty or take advantage of any upheaval in my

life to push me to move near my nada.

>

> I feel pretty confident about my plans to take care of my nada long-distance

as long as she can stay in her own home. I'm planning to help her in

coordinating increasing levels of home care with occasional visits from me to

check on things. But The Enforcer lives in the same town as my nada and thinks

I'm dumping it all on her - even though everything she does is voluntary and

mostly just social with my nada. In real practical terms the enforcer does very

little in helping my nada day-to-day. For example all of her light bulbs in

the ceiling fixtures are burnt out, but my nada won't ask my aunt because she

always says no to any similar request. And of course my nada won't ask the yard

guys to do it. So when I visit...odds are I will. At some point there'll just

be too many things and I'll have to confront my nada about finally having in

home help...so far her excuse to me is, oh but I have your aunt here.

>

> So I wonder does anyone have an enforcer in their family? Not someone who is

acting on behalf of your nada but has a very strong agenda of their own to

derail your distance or LC? How have you handled it? I really don't want to

lose my relationship with my aunt which once upon a time was better than this,

but I worry it may come to that.

>

> Thanks all,

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Enforcers: KISS MY ASS!!!!! "

This might be my next tattoo!

>

>

> Hi ,

> Just saw this message.

> Yes, most definitely this happens with our family, too. My cousin is our

> enforcer.

> We're LC with her. My mother stays in touch with her and her mother out of

> necessity, from time to time. I dislike her very much. VERY much. She's

> bossy and, like your enforcer, because she chose to make certain sacrificial

> choices in her life, EVERYONE has to do so now.

>

> At my father's funeral, she made clear to me I would now have to take my

> mother grocery shopping and do other stuff for her. She and her flying

> monkeys stayed the whole damned wake. I wish they would have left. They were

> making me ill. At least your aunt has more contact with you, it seems; but

> we hardly see my cousin, so it's incredibly annoying to hear her shrill,

> harpy voice " advising " me on how I need to care for my mother now.

>

> She and I never just have a conversation. She always has to take on the

> role and voice of a minor prophet.... " we're your FAMily! whether you like

> it or NOT! "

>

> I ran into her at the grocery store about a year and a half ago and it

> couldn't just be " hey, how's your family? good to see you, bye. " She starts

> in, " when are you going to come by?? you know, the ones that are going to

> lose out are YOUR kids. " So again, the prophet issues her proclamation AND

> she insults me by saying that my kids will lose out in life because they

> will not have had the incredible pleasure of being with her impeccably

> raised prophets-in-training. I yessed her to death and got the hell out of

> there.

>

> Why would I want to visit someone who commands me to do so?? Where is the

> pleasure in that?

>

> Enforcers: KISS MY ASS!!!!!

>

>

>

> >

> > I wonder how common this situation is. I've made up a term to describe my

> aunt's role in the family - The Enforcer. She sees it as her job to enforce

> the family values and morals as she is the head of the family. These values

> include adult children living near aging relatives as to help them with

> everything and be ready for any emergency. She did this herself at huge

> personal sacrifice to be near my grandnada. I know this shares a lot with

> Flying Monkey territory, but in this case my nada will be content and okay

> but the Enforcer is always looking to make me feel guilty or take advantage

> of any upheaval in my life to push me to move near my nada.

> >

> > I feel pretty confident about my plans to take care of my nada

> long-distance as long as she can stay in her own home. I'm planning to help

> her in coordinating increasing levels of home care with occasional visits

> from me to check on things. But The Enforcer lives in the same town as my

> nada and thinks I'm dumping it all on her - even though everything she does

> is voluntary and mostly just social with my nada. In real practical terms

> the enforcer does very little in helping my nada day-to-day. For example all

> of her light bulbs in the ceiling fixtures are burnt out, but my nada won't

> ask my aunt because she always says no to any similar request. And of course

> my nada won't ask the yard guys to do it. So when I visit...odds are I will.

> At some point there'll just be too many things and I'll have to confront my

> nada about finally having in home help...so far her excuse to me is, oh but

> I have your aunt here.

> >

> > So I wonder does anyone have an enforcer in their family? Not someone who

> is acting on behalf of your nada but has a very strong agenda of their own

> to derail your distance or LC? How have you handled it? I really don't want

> to lose my relationship with my aunt which once upon a time was better than

> this, but I worry it may come to that.

> >

> > Thanks all,

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Enforcers: KISS MY ASS!!!!! "

This might be my next tattoo!

>

>

> Hi ,

> Just saw this message.

> Yes, most definitely this happens with our family, too. My cousin is our

> enforcer.

> We're LC with her. My mother stays in touch with her and her mother out of

> necessity, from time to time. I dislike her very much. VERY much. She's

> bossy and, like your enforcer, because she chose to make certain sacrificial

> choices in her life, EVERYONE has to do so now.

>

> At my father's funeral, she made clear to me I would now have to take my

> mother grocery shopping and do other stuff for her. She and her flying

> monkeys stayed the whole damned wake. I wish they would have left. They were

> making me ill. At least your aunt has more contact with you, it seems; but

> we hardly see my cousin, so it's incredibly annoying to hear her shrill,

> harpy voice " advising " me on how I need to care for my mother now.

>

> She and I never just have a conversation. She always has to take on the

> role and voice of a minor prophet.... " we're your FAMily! whether you like

> it or NOT! "

>

> I ran into her at the grocery store about a year and a half ago and it

> couldn't just be " hey, how's your family? good to see you, bye. " She starts

> in, " when are you going to come by?? you know, the ones that are going to

> lose out are YOUR kids. " So again, the prophet issues her proclamation AND

> she insults me by saying that my kids will lose out in life because they

> will not have had the incredible pleasure of being with her impeccably

> raised prophets-in-training. I yessed her to death and got the hell out of

> there.

>

> Why would I want to visit someone who commands me to do so?? Where is the

> pleasure in that?

>

> Enforcers: KISS MY ASS!!!!!

>

>

>

> >

> > I wonder how common this situation is. I've made up a term to describe my

> aunt's role in the family - The Enforcer. She sees it as her job to enforce

> the family values and morals as she is the head of the family. These values

> include adult children living near aging relatives as to help them with

> everything and be ready for any emergency. She did this herself at huge

> personal sacrifice to be near my grandnada. I know this shares a lot with

> Flying Monkey territory, but in this case my nada will be content and okay

> but the Enforcer is always looking to make me feel guilty or take advantage

> of any upheaval in my life to push me to move near my nada.

> >

> > I feel pretty confident about my plans to take care of my nada

> long-distance as long as she can stay in her own home. I'm planning to help

> her in coordinating increasing levels of home care with occasional visits

> from me to check on things. But The Enforcer lives in the same town as my

> nada and thinks I'm dumping it all on her - even though everything she does

> is voluntary and mostly just social with my nada. In real practical terms

> the enforcer does very little in helping my nada day-to-day. For example all

> of her light bulbs in the ceiling fixtures are burnt out, but my nada won't

> ask my aunt because she always says no to any similar request. And of course

> my nada won't ask the yard guys to do it. So when I visit...odds are I will.

> At some point there'll just be too many things and I'll have to confront my

> nada about finally having in home help...so far her excuse to me is, oh but

> I have your aunt here.

> >

> > So I wonder does anyone have an enforcer in their family? Not someone who

> is acting on behalf of your nada but has a very strong agenda of their own

> to derail your distance or LC? How have you handled it? I really don't want

> to lose my relationship with my aunt which once upon a time was better than

> this, but I worry it may come to that.

> >

> > Thanks all,

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Enforcers: KISS MY ASS!!!!! "

This might be my next tattoo!

>

>

> Hi ,

> Just saw this message.

> Yes, most definitely this happens with our family, too. My cousin is our

> enforcer.

> We're LC with her. My mother stays in touch with her and her mother out of

> necessity, from time to time. I dislike her very much. VERY much. She's

> bossy and, like your enforcer, because she chose to make certain sacrificial

> choices in her life, EVERYONE has to do so now.

>

> At my father's funeral, she made clear to me I would now have to take my

> mother grocery shopping and do other stuff for her. She and her flying

> monkeys stayed the whole damned wake. I wish they would have left. They were

> making me ill. At least your aunt has more contact with you, it seems; but

> we hardly see my cousin, so it's incredibly annoying to hear her shrill,

> harpy voice " advising " me on how I need to care for my mother now.

>

> She and I never just have a conversation. She always has to take on the

> role and voice of a minor prophet.... " we're your FAMily! whether you like

> it or NOT! "

>

> I ran into her at the grocery store about a year and a half ago and it

> couldn't just be " hey, how's your family? good to see you, bye. " She starts

> in, " when are you going to come by?? you know, the ones that are going to

> lose out are YOUR kids. " So again, the prophet issues her proclamation AND

> she insults me by saying that my kids will lose out in life because they

> will not have had the incredible pleasure of being with her impeccably

> raised prophets-in-training. I yessed her to death and got the hell out of

> there.

>

> Why would I want to visit someone who commands me to do so?? Where is the

> pleasure in that?

>

> Enforcers: KISS MY ASS!!!!!

>

>

>

> >

> > I wonder how common this situation is. I've made up a term to describe my

> aunt's role in the family - The Enforcer. She sees it as her job to enforce

> the family values and morals as she is the head of the family. These values

> include adult children living near aging relatives as to help them with

> everything and be ready for any emergency. She did this herself at huge

> personal sacrifice to be near my grandnada. I know this shares a lot with

> Flying Monkey territory, but in this case my nada will be content and okay

> but the Enforcer is always looking to make me feel guilty or take advantage

> of any upheaval in my life to push me to move near my nada.

> >

> > I feel pretty confident about my plans to take care of my nada

> long-distance as long as she can stay in her own home. I'm planning to help

> her in coordinating increasing levels of home care with occasional visits

> from me to check on things. But The Enforcer lives in the same town as my

> nada and thinks I'm dumping it all on her - even though everything she does

> is voluntary and mostly just social with my nada. In real practical terms

> the enforcer does very little in helping my nada day-to-day. For example all

> of her light bulbs in the ceiling fixtures are burnt out, but my nada won't

> ask my aunt because she always says no to any similar request. And of course

> my nada won't ask the yard guys to do it. So when I visit...odds are I will.

> At some point there'll just be too many things and I'll have to confront my

> nada about finally having in home help...so far her excuse to me is, oh but

> I have your aunt here.

> >

> > So I wonder does anyone have an enforcer in their family? Not someone who

> is acting on behalf of your nada but has a very strong agenda of their own

> to derail your distance or LC? How have you handled it? I really don't want

> to lose my relationship with my aunt which once upon a time was better than

> this, but I worry it may come to that.

> >

> > Thanks all,

> >

> >

>

>

>