Re: Henny Penny

[Guest guest]

My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really an

indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I would

EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute they

would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the slightest

way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It doesn't take

away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the universe a

little more right for me.

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

This is exactly why my kids are NC with nada. They don't miss what they never

had, three of their four grandparents are dead, so they don't really get the

whole grandparent thing, and if I introduced nada, it would be a terrible rip

off, plus it would be at the expense of their own mother's sanity, so not really

a good trade off. We live hundreds of miles from her for a good reason. Even

if I let down my guard so that they could see the " nice " side of her, it

wouldn't last, it would eventually turn into a drama like what you (halelady)

are describing. Also, my nada's abusive treatment of me began for me when I

became old enough to demonstrate that I did not accept her behaviors (about 9, I

started to question her), and that's when she would " turn " on me. I learned

pretty quick not to upset her, but not before she would spit in my face

(literally). My son is 9. What if he questioned her? As the grandkids get

older, she will undoubtedly feel rejected by them from time to time, and unlike

a regular grandma, she will turn and attack them just like she did to me. The

best predictor of future behavior is past behavior (thanks Dr. Phil!). Also,

even when I was little and nada was demonstrating a " sweet love " for me as

someone mentioned before, and even though I did feel loved, I also saw how she

abused and mistreated my dad, both my grandmothers, her siblings, her

neighbours, our teachers, and it stunned, shocked and hurt me to see that my

mother was capable of causing such human suffering without a blink of an eye. I

saw so many people destroyed by her. It affected me and always will. I don't

want my kids to see her do that to anyone, especially me. We all make our own

decisons as to what is safe for our kids. I guess we have to self examine to

see if the decision is really for our kids or to relieve our own fear, guilt and

obligation. They deserve better.

>

> amy i totally understand about your situation with you kids and seeing their

grandmother, and i am glad you are at point where you are at peace with me. just

wanted to ask you though if your nada didnt accept you or your husband and didnt

want to have relationship with either of you but wanted a relationship with your

kids what would you do? i am at this crossroad at this time with my nada. she

insists that the kids be with her without me or hubby around. any thoughts

would be appreciated.. thanks

>

[Guest guest]

Keep telling yourself that your kids would love Satan himself if he gave kisses,

cuddles and presents.

Be strong!!

>

> i am horrified, hurt, all the above...its just FOG getting the better ofme as

my nada blames me for destroying my childrens lives cos i have made the

descision to not allow them there without my supervision...its as if she feels

threatened?! its hard thing when you kids ask you why cant we go over...my 6 yr

old is a sensitive child and she knows something isnt right between my

relationship with my nada.

>

[Guest guest]

Keep telling yourself that your kids would love Satan himself if he gave kisses,

cuddles and presents.

Be strong!!

>

> i am horrified, hurt, all the above...its just FOG getting the better ofme as

my nada blames me for destroying my childrens lives cos i have made the

descision to not allow them there without my supervision...its as if she feels

threatened?! its hard thing when you kids ask you why cant we go over...my 6 yr

old is a sensitive child and she knows something isnt right between my

relationship with my nada.

>

[Guest guest]

Whew! Its good to read that all your kids are now older and safely past the

point at which, IF their grandnada were to suddenly and unexpectedly turn on

them, she couldn't inflict serious damage, emotional or otherwise.

I think I am fascinated that your nada has apparently only targeted you for

abuse and for only a certain period of your life, and now she pretty much

ignores you. That is an extremely unusual pattern of behavior, I think.

I wonder if the fact that they're not singletons helped your kids navigate the

potentially dangerous nada waters? My nada always behaves much, much better

around witnesses.

I'm willing to bet that your sets of multiples are very protective of each other

and back each other up if anyone tries or has tried to bully them, even

grandnada.

-Annie

>

> My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really an

indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

>

>

> In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

>

>

> I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

>

>

> My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

>

>

> Amy

[Guest guest]

Annie,

My kids are so much smarter and " with it " than I've ever been. I was brainwashed

and trained to obey and keep quiet. My kids are loud and opinionated. Good for

them. I am proud to be their mom. I am proud of their independence. I am proud

that they speak up for themselves.

They laugh about my mom. They have a very healthy attitude from what they can

see in her. She does NOT abuse them in any way. Like I've said, she has

mellowed...she's in her 70's now, and it was all directed at me.

She doesn't ignore me at all...she is obsessed with me. She doesn't realize that

I ignore HER! I don't tell her anything important to me. She is fine with the

sparse amount of conversation we have. She doesn't know how I feel about her.

It's not kind, and if i would tell her how I really feel, it wouldn't make me

feel better to see her crying. I don't want or need her explanations/apologies.

I only need to protect my well-being...so I choose to drop this lifelong issue

and move on. I cannot have another conversation about this with her. It will

never make sense to me...so I choose to let it go.

At this point, my main concern is my kids, my husband and my peace of mind.

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

Whew! Its good to read that all your kids are now older and safely past the

point at which, IF their grandnada were to suddenly and unexpectedly turn on

them, she couldn't inflict serious damage, emotional or otherwise.

I think I am fascinated that your nada has apparently only targeted you for

abuse and for only a certain period of your life, and now she pretty much

ignores you. That is an extremely unusual pattern of behavior, I think.

I wonder if the fact that they're not singletons helped your kids navigate the

potentially dangerous nada waters? My nada always behaves much, much better

around witnesses.

I'm willing to bet that your sets of multiples are very protective of each other

and back each other up if anyone tries or has tried to bully them, even

grandnada.

-Annie

>

> My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really an

indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

>

>

> In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

>

>

> I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

>

>

> My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

>

>

> Amy

[Guest guest]

Annie,

My kids are so much smarter and " with it " than I've ever been. I was brainwashed

and trained to obey and keep quiet. My kids are loud and opinionated. Good for

them. I am proud to be their mom. I am proud of their independence. I am proud

that they speak up for themselves.

They laugh about my mom. They have a very healthy attitude from what they can

see in her. She does NOT abuse them in any way. Like I've said, she has

mellowed...she's in her 70's now, and it was all directed at me.

She doesn't ignore me at all...she is obsessed with me. She doesn't realize that

I ignore HER! I don't tell her anything important to me. She is fine with the

sparse amount of conversation we have. She doesn't know how I feel about her.

It's not kind, and if i would tell her how I really feel, it wouldn't make me

feel better to see her crying. I don't want or need her explanations/apologies.

I only need to protect my well-being...so I choose to drop this lifelong issue

and move on. I cannot have another conversation about this with her. It will

never make sense to me...so I choose to let it go.

At this point, my main concern is my kids, my husband and my peace of mind.

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

Whew! Its good to read that all your kids are now older and safely past the

point at which, IF their grandnada were to suddenly and unexpectedly turn on

them, she couldn't inflict serious damage, emotional or otherwise.

I think I am fascinated that your nada has apparently only targeted you for

abuse and for only a certain period of your life, and now she pretty much

ignores you. That is an extremely unusual pattern of behavior, I think.

I wonder if the fact that they're not singletons helped your kids navigate the

potentially dangerous nada waters? My nada always behaves much, much better

around witnesses.

I'm willing to bet that your sets of multiples are very protective of each other

and back each other up if anyone tries or has tried to bully them, even

grandnada.

-Annie

>

> My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really an

indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

>

>

> In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

>

>

> I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

>

>

> My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

>

>

> Amy

[Guest guest]

I'm starting to get a better picture now, I think. That's great that your kids

were never dominated by their grand-nada or conditioned to be afraid of her or

totally obedient to her like you were, and since she for whatever reason chose

to focus her obsession only on you, her dysfunction was never focused on them to

a harmful degree. And your kids' ability to not take grand-nada seriously gives

them some emotional armor as well!

Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you.

Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

From what I can tell most nadas seem obsessed with getting access to their

grand-kids and gaining their loyalty instead of their now-adult child, but yours

is still focused on you.

Has your nada ever had a formal diagnosis, do you know?

-Annie

> >

> > My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really

an indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

> >

> >

> > In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

> >

> >

> > I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

> >

> >

> > My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

> >

> >

> > Amy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm starting to get a better picture now, I think. That's great that your kids

were never dominated by their grand-nada or conditioned to be afraid of her or

totally obedient to her like you were, and since she for whatever reason chose

to focus her obsession only on you, her dysfunction was never focused on them to

a harmful degree. And your kids' ability to not take grand-nada seriously gives

them some emotional armor as well!

Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you.

Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

From what I can tell most nadas seem obsessed with getting access to their

grand-kids and gaining their loyalty instead of their now-adult child, but yours

is still focused on you.

Has your nada ever had a formal diagnosis, do you know?

-Annie

> >

> > My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really

an indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

> >

> >

> > In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

> >

> >

> > I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

> >

> >

> > My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

> >

> >

> > Amy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm starting to get a better picture now, I think. That's great that your kids

were never dominated by their grand-nada or conditioned to be afraid of her or

totally obedient to her like you were, and since she for whatever reason chose

to focus her obsession only on you, her dysfunction was never focused on them to

a harmful degree. And your kids' ability to not take grand-nada seriously gives

them some emotional armor as well!

Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you.

Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

From what I can tell most nadas seem obsessed with getting access to their

grand-kids and gaining their loyalty instead of their now-adult child, but yours

is still focused on you.

Has your nada ever had a formal diagnosis, do you know?

-Annie

> >

> > My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really

an indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

> >

> >

> > In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

> >

> >

> > I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

> >

> >

> > My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

> >

> >

> > Amy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you. Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

Sound like my nada ( and she is diagnosed with BPD)

She never liked me, was extremely jealous on me , she abuse me- but now she is

obsessed with me wanting to be " good friends " ,refuses to see that I don't have

any relation with her and that I don't like her at all. She is completely stuck

onto me.

She also doesn't care about her grandchild. When my son was very little she was

kind of funny and nice gradma....but when he started to have his own opinion -

than she started to manipulate him with emotional blackmailing....I'll be so sad

if you go or behave on certain ways - I'll cray if you not tell your mother

to do that or that or behave like that and that. He had to pray if he wanted to

see a cartoon and he had to go to cemetery with her every day. I immediately

cut her off and she could see him just with my supervision. But soon after that

my son had to have a lot of surgeries and she lost her interest in him. She came

in the hospital just once - whit some totally unsuitable gift for him ( and

suitable for her) and accused him to be rude to her, not to be happy enough with

her visit and gifts. ( he had major operation and was on analgesics...) That was

the reason she never ever visit him when we where in hospital (few times we were

in hospital for months) but she never forget to ask me at the same time - when I

would come to her place to visit her , because she is so pooooooor . Now he is

18 and she never even ask for him. Except when I don't answer on phone he call

him to call me.

I think she chose who she would like or with whom she would be obsessed on a

base how she or he is useful for her. She has to have somebody to live her or

his live or somebody to suck his or her energy . Doesn't matter who that

person is. Even if she hates that person ( like she hates me)

> > >

> > > My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's

really an indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of

us. It's universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

> > >

> > >

> > > In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion

and naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle.

My growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

> > >

> > >

> > > I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

> > >

> > >

> > > My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

> > >

> > >

> > > Amy

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you. Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

Sound like my nada ( and she is diagnosed with BPD)

She never liked me, was extremely jealous on me , she abuse me- but now she is

obsessed with me wanting to be " good friends " ,refuses to see that I don't have

any relation with her and that I don't like her at all. She is completely stuck

onto me.

She also doesn't care about her grandchild. When my son was very little she was

kind of funny and nice gradma....but when he started to have his own opinion -

than she started to manipulate him with emotional blackmailing....I'll be so sad

if you go or behave on certain ways - I'll cray if you not tell your mother

to do that or that or behave like that and that. He had to pray if he wanted to

see a cartoon and he had to go to cemetery with her every day. I immediately

cut her off and she could see him just with my supervision. But soon after that

my son had to have a lot of surgeries and she lost her interest in him. She came

in the hospital just once - whit some totally unsuitable gift for him ( and

suitable for her) and accused him to be rude to her, not to be happy enough with

her visit and gifts. ( he had major operation and was on analgesics...) That was

the reason she never ever visit him when we where in hospital (few times we were

in hospital for months) but she never forget to ask me at the same time - when I

would come to her place to visit her , because she is so pooooooor . Now he is

18 and she never even ask for him. Except when I don't answer on phone he call

him to call me.

I think she chose who she would like or with whom she would be obsessed on a

base how she or he is useful for her. She has to have somebody to live her or

his live or somebody to suck his or her energy . Doesn't matter who that

person is. Even if she hates that person ( like she hates me)

> > >

> > > My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's

really an indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of

us. It's universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

> > >

> > >

> > > In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion

and naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle.

My growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

> > >

> > >

> > > I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

> > >

> > >

> > > My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

> > >

> > >

> > > Amy

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I know...it's all so twisted. My mom has stalked me since i was a teen.

She told me recently that she wanted to keep me young for as long as possible.

My kids understand things about her from many talks we have had about her and

people in general.

We are very open with them...and don't make fantasy-based predictions of how

families are supposed to be.

It's surprising to me how smart my kids are...and how they understand things and

roll with things...I could never do that. I wasn't groomed to be an independent

grown-up...that's where we are different.

I always tell my kids to speak for themselves

My mom always spoke for me.

I tell my kids that nobody has the right to tell you how to think, feel or be.

My mom told me how I was going to do everything.

My mom, as far as I know, could have been diagnosed with BPD, but it's not

something she would ever have told me...because that would be an admission of

non-perfection to me...NEVER.

But my aunt is a psychologist and a few years ago, when I figured out about BPD,

I asked her if that ran thru my family...and she just nodded her head a very

firm YES.

I am not the daughter I wanted to be...it's impossible to be.

It's a real loss in my life.

But somehow, there's a real grandchild, grandparent relationship happening...and

I am happy about it.

They have inside jokes with each other, they discuss sports, school...I watch it

all the time to make sure that nothing weird is being said. I am content with

the interaction.

As for me, I will be forever ruined by her, so many life opportunities killed,

so many wasted tears...and she never cared

I must be super human or something...but it makes me feel better to not continue

the pattern of isolation of family members like she always did.

I am a mess inside. She did way too much damage. I was supposed to marry someone

a long time ago, and she destroyed us. I can never forgive her for taking 2

healthy, lively people and killing them spiritually. When I think of it, I still

cannot believe I was so scared to go up against her that I let her interfere so

drastically and for so long.

My husband saved my life when we met. I was at the end of my rope...a rope that

spanned years. He married me, and we produced a very happy, lively family. I am

grateful.

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

I'm starting to get a better picture now, I think. That's great that your kids

were never dominated by their grand-nada or conditioned to be afraid of her or

totally obedient to her like you were, and since she for whatever reason chose

to focus her obsession only on you, her dysfunction was never focused on them to

a harmful degree. And your kids' ability to not take grand-nada seriously gives

them some emotional armor as well!

Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you.

Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

From what I can tell most nadas seem obsessed with getting access to their

grand-kids and gaining their loyalty instead of their now-adult child, but yours

is still focused on you.

Has your nada ever had a formal diagnosis, do you know?

-Annie

> >

> > My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really

an indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

> >

> >

> > In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

> >

> >

> > I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

> >

> >

> > My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

> >

> >

> > Amy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I know...it's all so twisted. My mom has stalked me since i was a teen.

She told me recently that she wanted to keep me young for as long as possible.

My kids understand things about her from many talks we have had about her and

people in general.

We are very open with them...and don't make fantasy-based predictions of how

families are supposed to be.

It's surprising to me how smart my kids are...and how they understand things and

roll with things...I could never do that. I wasn't groomed to be an independent

grown-up...that's where we are different.

I always tell my kids to speak for themselves

My mom always spoke for me.

I tell my kids that nobody has the right to tell you how to think, feel or be.

My mom told me how I was going to do everything.

My mom, as far as I know, could have been diagnosed with BPD, but it's not

something she would ever have told me...because that would be an admission of

non-perfection to me...NEVER.

But my aunt is a psychologist and a few years ago, when I figured out about BPD,

I asked her if that ran thru my family...and she just nodded her head a very

firm YES.

I am not the daughter I wanted to be...it's impossible to be.

It's a real loss in my life.

But somehow, there's a real grandchild, grandparent relationship happening...and

I am happy about it.

They have inside jokes with each other, they discuss sports, school...I watch it

all the time to make sure that nothing weird is being said. I am content with

the interaction.

As for me, I will be forever ruined by her, so many life opportunities killed,

so many wasted tears...and she never cared

I must be super human or something...but it makes me feel better to not continue

the pattern of isolation of family members like she always did.

I am a mess inside. She did way too much damage. I was supposed to marry someone

a long time ago, and she destroyed us. I can never forgive her for taking 2

healthy, lively people and killing them spiritually. When I think of it, I still

cannot believe I was so scared to go up against her that I let her interfere so

drastically and for so long.

My husband saved my life when we met. I was at the end of my rope...a rope that

spanned years. He married me, and we produced a very happy, lively family. I am

grateful.

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

I'm starting to get a better picture now, I think. That's great that your kids

were never dominated by their grand-nada or conditioned to be afraid of her or

totally obedient to her like you were, and since she for whatever reason chose

to focus her obsession only on you, her dysfunction was never focused on them to

a harmful degree. And your kids' ability to not take grand-nada seriously gives

them some emotional armor as well!

Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you.

Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

From what I can tell most nadas seem obsessed with getting access to their

grand-kids and gaining their loyalty instead of their now-adult child, but yours

is still focused on you.

Has your nada ever had a formal diagnosis, do you know?

-Annie

> >

> > My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really

an indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

> >

> >

> > In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

> >

> >

> > I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

> >

> >

> > My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

> >

> >

> > Amy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I know...it's all so twisted. My mom has stalked me since i was a teen.

She told me recently that she wanted to keep me young for as long as possible.

My kids understand things about her from many talks we have had about her and

people in general.

We are very open with them...and don't make fantasy-based predictions of how

families are supposed to be.

It's surprising to me how smart my kids are...and how they understand things and

roll with things...I could never do that. I wasn't groomed to be an independent

grown-up...that's where we are different.

I always tell my kids to speak for themselves

My mom always spoke for me.

I tell my kids that nobody has the right to tell you how to think, feel or be.

My mom told me how I was going to do everything.

My mom, as far as I know, could have been diagnosed with BPD, but it's not

something she would ever have told me...because that would be an admission of

non-perfection to me...NEVER.

But my aunt is a psychologist and a few years ago, when I figured out about BPD,

I asked her if that ran thru my family...and she just nodded her head a very

firm YES.

I am not the daughter I wanted to be...it's impossible to be.

It's a real loss in my life.

But somehow, there's a real grandchild, grandparent relationship happening...and

I am happy about it.

They have inside jokes with each other, they discuss sports, school...I watch it

all the time to make sure that nothing weird is being said. I am content with

the interaction.

As for me, I will be forever ruined by her, so many life opportunities killed,

so many wasted tears...and she never cared

I must be super human or something...but it makes me feel better to not continue

the pattern of isolation of family members like she always did.

I am a mess inside. She did way too much damage. I was supposed to marry someone

a long time ago, and she destroyed us. I can never forgive her for taking 2

healthy, lively people and killing them spiritually. When I think of it, I still

cannot believe I was so scared to go up against her that I let her interfere so

drastically and for so long.

My husband saved my life when we met. I was at the end of my rope...a rope that

spanned years. He married me, and we produced a very happy, lively family. I am

grateful.

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

I'm starting to get a better picture now, I think. That's great that your kids

were never dominated by their grand-nada or conditioned to be afraid of her or

totally obedient to her like you were, and since she for whatever reason chose

to focus her obsession only on you, her dysfunction was never focused on them to

a harmful degree. And your kids' ability to not take grand-nada seriously gives

them some emotional armor as well!

Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you.

Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

From what I can tell most nadas seem obsessed with getting access to their

grand-kids and gaining their loyalty instead of their now-adult child, but yours

is still focused on you.

Has your nada ever had a formal diagnosis, do you know?

-Annie

> >

> > My mom , as well as all of your moms, have caused so much pain. It's really

an indescribable deep down fundamental hurt and confusion within all of us. It's

universal. And it's so shocking that we all have basically the same

stories...same characters, same premise, almost same endings. I used to think I

was so unique in my thinking, but from this group, I see that I am the same as

all of you.

> >

> >

> > In my case, the mom was a very sweet and loving mom til I had an opinion and

naturally started to mature and break away a bit. That, she couldn't handle. My

growing up and away was a threat to her. So she hooked her claws into me hard

and never let go. It's a wonder that I am here...it's a wonder that I am

coherent most of the time, it's a wonder that I have 5 healthy and happy kids

and a very sweet hubby.

> >

> >

> > I am very sensitive to the mom I had and when the change took place. If I

would EVER see that ugly head raised to my kids...that would be the last minute

they would ever be in her presence. I would have a reaction to that. But, I have

three 16-year-olds and two 12-year-olds...and they all have a great relationship

with her. I have risen above the hate I feel for her. It will always be there, I

will always feel it and know that she threw my life away. My mom has mellowed

considerably...but I am always on my guard...and we have little contact...I do

not even make small talk with her anymore. My kids have their relationship with

her. She doesn't even realize that I am so distant.

> >

> >

> > My kids are my only concern. If I would see her acting up even in the

slightest way with them, I would pull back. It's been working out luckily. It

doesn't take away from me the horrible way she was with me...but it makes the

universe a little more right for me.

> >

> >

> > Amy

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing your nada details, yenaine. Yes, the *abuse/hatred of the

daughter while also being Obsessed with the daughter* part does sound like Amy's

nada, as does the seemingly incomprehensible (to me) part where nada is

oblivious to the fact that you dislike her and want nothing to do with her! But

your nada has acted more typically nada-ish to your son i.e. black and white

thinking: your nada loved your son if he obeyed her (gave her n-supply) but

ignored him when he was ill and even emotionally abused him (manipulations,

false accusations, etc.)at other times.

Amy's case has the unusual (seems unusual to me) twist in that her nada appears

to be consistently *nice* to her grand-kids; Amy has never had to resort to No

Contact to protect her kids from her nada. Its that exclusivity: her nada's

ability to focus her insane thoughts and behaviors on only ONE individual to act

out only against that ONE individual that seems so different to me.

That really seems like stalker behavior, to me! Stalkers seem to target only

one person and become obsessed with that person. Although stalking usually has

to do with erotic love, it can happen within families as well. Here's an

excerpt from a site about stalking:

" ...In a comparative study of psychotic versus non-psychotic stalkers (Mullen et

al. 1999), 63% of the sample was found to be suffering from a common psychiatric

condition such as major depression, personality disorder, or substance

dependence, *with personality disorder being the most common diagnosis.* "

Here's the site for a list & description of different types of stalkers:

http://www.sexualharassmentsupport.org/TypesofStalkers.html

Wow, the labyrinthine complexity of this disorder and its variations in

disturbed behavior I think will never cease to fascinate me.

Maybe this is how I'm dealing with coming to terms with my own abuse, by trying

to understand what causes the negative thought patterns of personality disorder

and the myriad destructive ways the negativity gets expressed.

-Annie

>

> Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you. Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

>

>

> Sound like my nada ( and she is diagnosed with BPD)

>

> She never liked me, was extremely jealous on me , she abuse me- but now she is

obsessed with me wanting to be " good friends " ,refuses to see that I don't have

any relation with her and that I don't like her at all. She is completely stuck

onto me.

> She also doesn't care about her grandchild. When my son was very little she

was kind of funny and nice gradma....but when he started to have his own opinion

- than she started to manipulate him with emotional blackmailing....I'll be so

sad if you go or behave on certain ways - I'll cray if you not tell your

mother to do that or that or behave like that and that. He had to pray if he

wanted to see a cartoon and he had to go to cemetery with her every day. I

immediately cut her off and she could see him just with my supervision. But soon

after that my son had to have a lot of surgeries and she lost her interest in

him. She came in the hospital just once - whit some totally unsuitable gift for

him ( and suitable for her) and accused him to be rude to her, not to be happy

enough with her visit and gifts. ( he had major operation and was on

analgesics...) That was the reason she never ever visit him when we where in

hospital (few times we were in hospital for months) but she never forget to ask

me at the same time - when I would come to her place to visit her , because she

is so pooooooor . Now he is 18 and she never even ask for him. Except when I

don't answer on phone he call him to call me.

> I think she chose who she would like or with whom she would be obsessed on a

base how she or he is useful for her. She has to have somebody to live her or

his live or somebody to suck his or her energy . Doesn't matter who that

person is. Even if she hates that person ( like she hates me)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy,

You sound very much like the main character, the princess, in the movie

" Tangled " . Have you seen it?

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. Your peaceful intentions, bringing sweetness and light into your world are

inspiring - especially if you are truly able to do this without destroying

yourself. I hope to be there someday.

>

> I know what you mean, but I would feel worse if I stood in the way of my kids

having grandparents. My parents are very nice to my kids and they have a genuine

loving relationship with each other. I feel that if I kept my kids away, I might

be exhibiting the same type of behavior that my mom has always had...keeping

family members away from each other.

>

>

> I also don't like extremes...so I believe that one extreme act brings on other

extreme acts...I've successfully balanced the playing field. No rebounding. It's

the way I like things.

>

>

> So, yes, I have a very difficult time with my mom and dad, but I put it aside

for my kids. They know that grandma is a little off, a very worried person,

overprotective...sometimes irrational...but they have a very sweet relationship

with each other.

>

>

> I've always tried to see the bigger picture, and I would rather deal with it

this way. In my world, I've always tried to bring peace and sweetness to

everything (isn't that our job as KOs of these nutty moms?) and I've put myself

aside in this respect, but I don't think I could live with myself if I wasn't

true to myself.

>

>

> It's very often challenging, but my kids love their grandparents and that

makes it worth it for me.

>

>

> Amy

> (my husband calls me a saint and the most understanding person he knows. that

makes it feel peaceful)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy,

You sound very much like the main character, the princess, in the movie

" Tangled " . Have you seen it?

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. Your peaceful intentions, bringing sweetness and light into your world are

inspiring - especially if you are truly able to do this without destroying

yourself. I hope to be there someday.

>

> I know what you mean, but I would feel worse if I stood in the way of my kids

having grandparents. My parents are very nice to my kids and they have a genuine

loving relationship with each other. I feel that if I kept my kids away, I might

be exhibiting the same type of behavior that my mom has always had...keeping

family members away from each other.

>

>

> I also don't like extremes...so I believe that one extreme act brings on other

extreme acts...I've successfully balanced the playing field. No rebounding. It's

the way I like things.

>

>

> So, yes, I have a very difficult time with my mom and dad, but I put it aside

for my kids. They know that grandma is a little off, a very worried person,

overprotective...sometimes irrational...but they have a very sweet relationship

with each other.

>

>

> I've always tried to see the bigger picture, and I would rather deal with it

this way. In my world, I've always tried to bring peace and sweetness to

everything (isn't that our job as KOs of these nutty moms?) and I've put myself

aside in this respect, but I don't think I could live with myself if I wasn't

true to myself.

>

>

> It's very often challenging, but my kids love their grandparents and that

makes it worth it for me.

>

>

> Amy

> (my husband calls me a saint and the most understanding person he knows. that

makes it feel peaceful)

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, just thinking about all of this is torturous and twisting to me.

I am a peace-seeking missile.

I look for peace, quiet and joy everywhere I go in direct contrast to the war,

noise and sadness I grew up surrounded by.

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

Thanks for sharing your nada details, yenaine. Yes, the *abuse/hatred of the

daughter while also being Obsessed with the daughter* part does sound like Amy's

nada, as does the seemingly incomprehensible (to me) part where nada is

oblivious to the fact that you dislike her and want nothing to do with her! But

your nada has acted more typically nada-ish to your son i.e. black and white

thinking: your nada loved your son if he obeyed her (gave her n-supply) but

ignored him when he was ill and even emotionally abused him (manipulations,

false accusations, etc.)at other times.

Amy's case has the unusual (seems unusual to me) twist in that her nada appears

to be consistently *nice* to her grand-kids; Amy has never had to resort to No

Contact to protect her kids from her nada. Its that exclusivity: her nada's

ability to focus her insane thoughts and behaviors on only ONE individual to act

out only against that ONE individual that seems so different to me.

That really seems like stalker behavior, to me! Stalkers seem to target only

one person and become obsessed with that person. Although stalking usually has

to do with erotic love, it can happen within families as well. Here's an

excerpt from a site about stalking:

" ...In a comparative study of psychotic versus non-psychotic stalkers (Mullen et

al. 1999), 63% of the sample was found to be suffering from a common psychiatric

condition such as major depression, personality disorder, or substance

dependence, *with personality disorder being the most common diagnosis.* "

Here's the site for a list & description of different types of stalkers:

http://www.sexualharassmentsupport.org/TypesofStalkers.html

Wow, the labyrinthine complexity of this disorder and its variations in

disturbed behavior I think will never cease to fascinate me.

Maybe this is how I'm dealing with coming to terms with my own abuse, by trying

to understand what causes the negative thought patterns of personality disorder

and the myriad destructive ways the negativity gets expressed.

-Annie

>

> Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you. Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

>

>

> Sound like my nada ( and she is diagnosed with BPD)

>

> She never liked me, was extremely jealous on me , she abuse me- but now she is

obsessed with me wanting to be " good friends " ,refuses to see that I don't have

any relation with her and that I don't like her at all. She is completely stuck

onto me.

> She also doesn't care about her grandchild. When my son was very little she

was kind of funny and nice gradma....but when he started to have his own opinion

- than she started to manipulate him with emotional blackmailing....I'll be so

sad if you go or behave on certain ways - I'll cray if you not tell your

mother to do that or that or behave like that and that. He had to pray if he

wanted to see a cartoon and he had to go to cemetery with her every day. I

immediately cut her off and she could see him just with my supervision. But soon

after that my son had to have a lot of surgeries and she lost her interest in

him. She came in the hospital just once - whit some totally unsuitable gift for

him ( and suitable for her) and accused him to be rude to her, not to be happy

enough with her visit and gifts. ( he had major operation and was on

analgesics...) That was the reason she never ever visit him when we where in

hospital (few times we were in hospital for months) but she never forget to ask

me at the same time - when I would come to her place to visit her , because she

is so pooooooor . Now he is 18 and she never even ask for him. Except when I

don't answer on phone he call him to call me.

> I think she chose who she would like or with whom she would be obsessed on a

base how she or he is useful for her. She has to have somebody to live her or

his live or somebody to suck his or her energy . Doesn't matter who that

person is. Even if she hates that person ( like she hates me)

>

[Guest guest]

Annie, just thinking about all of this is torturous and twisting to me.

I am a peace-seeking missile.

I look for peace, quiet and joy everywhere I go in direct contrast to the war,

noise and sadness I grew up surrounded by.

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

Thanks for sharing your nada details, yenaine. Yes, the *abuse/hatred of the

daughter while also being Obsessed with the daughter* part does sound like Amy's

nada, as does the seemingly incomprehensible (to me) part where nada is

oblivious to the fact that you dislike her and want nothing to do with her! But

your nada has acted more typically nada-ish to your son i.e. black and white

thinking: your nada loved your son if he obeyed her (gave her n-supply) but

ignored him when he was ill and even emotionally abused him (manipulations,

false accusations, etc.)at other times.

Amy's case has the unusual (seems unusual to me) twist in that her nada appears

to be consistently *nice* to her grand-kids; Amy has never had to resort to No

Contact to protect her kids from her nada. Its that exclusivity: her nada's

ability to focus her insane thoughts and behaviors on only ONE individual to act

out only against that ONE individual that seems so different to me.

That really seems like stalker behavior, to me! Stalkers seem to target only

one person and become obsessed with that person. Although stalking usually has

to do with erotic love, it can happen within families as well. Here's an

excerpt from a site about stalking:

" ...In a comparative study of psychotic versus non-psychotic stalkers (Mullen et

al. 1999), 63% of the sample was found to be suffering from a common psychiatric

condition such as major depression, personality disorder, or substance

dependence, *with personality disorder being the most common diagnosis.* "

Here's the site for a list & description of different types of stalkers:

http://www.sexualharassmentsupport.org/TypesofStalkers.html

Wow, the labyrinthine complexity of this disorder and its variations in

disturbed behavior I think will never cease to fascinate me.

Maybe this is how I'm dealing with coming to terms with my own abuse, by trying

to understand what causes the negative thought patterns of personality disorder

and the myriad destructive ways the negativity gets expressed.

-Annie

>

> Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you. Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

>

>

> Sound like my nada ( and she is diagnosed with BPD)

>

> She never liked me, was extremely jealous on me , she abuse me- but now she is

obsessed with me wanting to be " good friends " ,refuses to see that I don't have

any relation with her and that I don't like her at all. She is completely stuck

onto me.

> She also doesn't care about her grandchild. When my son was very little she

was kind of funny and nice gradma....but when he started to have his own opinion

- than she started to manipulate him with emotional blackmailing....I'll be so

sad if you go or behave on certain ways - I'll cray if you not tell your

mother to do that or that or behave like that and that. He had to pray if he

wanted to see a cartoon and he had to go to cemetery with her every day. I

immediately cut her off and she could see him just with my supervision. But soon

after that my son had to have a lot of surgeries and she lost her interest in

him. She came in the hospital just once - whit some totally unsuitable gift for

him ( and suitable for her) and accused him to be rude to her, not to be happy

enough with her visit and gifts. ( he had major operation and was on

analgesics...) That was the reason she never ever visit him when we where in

hospital (few times we were in hospital for months) but she never forget to ask

me at the same time - when I would come to her place to visit her , because she

is so pooooooor . Now he is 18 and she never even ask for him. Except when I

don't answer on phone he call him to call me.

> I think she chose who she would like or with whom she would be obsessed on a

base how she or he is useful for her. She has to have somebody to live her or

his live or somebody to suck his or her energy . Doesn't matter who that

person is. Even if she hates that person ( like she hates me)

>

[Guest guest]

What a GREAT analogy. I remember a story just like this called, " The Little Red

Hen " . I think it is the same story. In the one I read as a child, there is a

cat and another animal (a duck maybe?) and a fox? that won't help. The hen has

baby chicks that get to eat though. That was always poignant for me.

This is a nice story to remember in light of the consequences that nadas

naturally bring on themselves. I can't really save them from that, can I? Even

if I give them bread, they have crapped in their nests elsewhere, so they will

have consequences in life. My mother suffers daily just from her own sadness

and laziness in life.

-Coal Miner's Daughter

>

> Does anyone remember the story of Henny Penny? It's all about the chicken who

decides to make bread. " Who will help me reap the wheat? " she says. " Not I.

Not I. " say all of the little barnyard animals. " Who will help me grind the

flour, knead the dough, bake the bread, etc " " Not I " But then, when the bread

is made she says, " Who will help me EAT the bread? " and all the animals come

running to eat. Okay, so do you ever feel like Henny Penny with your nada? I

can't help thinking it is like that for me. Life was hell growing up, and even

adjusting to adulthood. But somehow, I got healthy (no thanks to her, more like

in spite of her), figured out how to have good relationships, got a career, got

married and had kids. Yay me! But now....here comes nada, like one of the

barnyard animals. " I want to see MY grandchildren! " This drives me absolutely

insane! If I hadn't fought to survive against her, there would be no

grandchildren. Getting away from her allowed me to heal and have my own

children. Her efforts to help me were even worse than the barnyard animals

because she actually caused me all my problems while I was " making the bread " .

Now she wants a slice of the bread???? She says that she has read about

" grandparents' rights " and that she can take me to court to gain access to my

children. (Which of course would never happen because if I told a judge what I

went through as a kid, they would probably arrest her for child abuse.) But I

can't help thinking of the story of Henny Penny. Anyone else feel like Henny

Penny, especially if they went on to any kind of success or having a family that

nada now wants a part of?

>

[Guest guest]

What a GREAT analogy. I remember a story just like this called, " The Little Red

Hen " . I think it is the same story. In the one I read as a child, there is a

cat and another animal (a duck maybe?) and a fox? that won't help. The hen has

baby chicks that get to eat though. That was always poignant for me.

This is a nice story to remember in light of the consequences that nadas

naturally bring on themselves. I can't really save them from that, can I? Even

if I give them bread, they have crapped in their nests elsewhere, so they will

have consequences in life. My mother suffers daily just from her own sadness

and laziness in life.

-Coal Miner's Daughter

>

> Does anyone remember the story of Henny Penny? It's all about the chicken who

decides to make bread. " Who will help me reap the wheat? " she says. " Not I.

Not I. " say all of the little barnyard animals. " Who will help me grind the

flour, knead the dough, bake the bread, etc " " Not I " But then, when the bread

is made she says, " Who will help me EAT the bread? " and all the animals come

running to eat. Okay, so do you ever feel like Henny Penny with your nada? I

can't help thinking it is like that for me. Life was hell growing up, and even

adjusting to adulthood. But somehow, I got healthy (no thanks to her, more like

in spite of her), figured out how to have good relationships, got a career, got

married and had kids. Yay me! But now....here comes nada, like one of the

barnyard animals. " I want to see MY grandchildren! " This drives me absolutely

insane! If I hadn't fought to survive against her, there would be no

grandchildren. Getting away from her allowed me to heal and have my own

children. Her efforts to help me were even worse than the barnyard animals

because she actually caused me all my problems while I was " making the bread " .

Now she wants a slice of the bread???? She says that she has read about

" grandparents' rights " and that she can take me to court to gain access to my

children. (Which of course would never happen because if I told a judge what I

went through as a kid, they would probably arrest her for child abuse.) But I

can't help thinking of the story of Henny Penny. Anyone else feel like Henny

Penny, especially if they went on to any kind of success or having a family that

nada now wants a part of?

>

[Guest guest]

Coal Miner's Daughter,

I haven't seen it yet...should I? These movies get me crying sometimes...The Sea

Witch in the Little Mermaid scared the voice out of me.

I am able to get to the peaceful and sweetness of life. It took years of therapy

and my ambition to be a free spirit.

Easier said than done. I still suffer though. I hope to one day not feel it so

much.

I just wish I didn't waste so much time on my mom's complaints, worries and bad

attitude. I lived to make her happy.

That's not why you have children!

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

Hi Amy,

You sound very much like the main character, the princess, in the movie

" Tangled " . Have you seen it?

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. Your peaceful intentions, bringing sweetness and light into your world are

inspiring - especially if you are truly able to do this without destroying

yourself. I hope to be there someday.

>

> I know what you mean, but I would feel worse if I stood in the way of my kids

having grandparents. My parents are very nice to my kids and they have a genuine

loving relationship with each other. I feel that if I kept my kids away, I might

be exhibiting the same type of behavior that my mom has always had...keeping

family members away from each other.

>

>

> I also don't like extremes...so I believe that one extreme act brings on other

extreme acts...I've successfully balanced the playing field. No rebounding. It's

the way I like things.

>

>

> So, yes, I have a very difficult time with my mom and dad, but I put it aside

for my kids. They know that grandma is a little off, a very worried person,

overprotective...sometimes irrational...but they have a very sweet relationship

with each other.

>

>

> I've always tried to see the bigger picture, and I would rather deal with it

this way. In my world, I've always tried to bring peace and sweetness to

everything (isn't that our job as KOs of these nutty moms?) and I've put myself

aside in this respect, but I don't think I could live with myself if I wasn't

true to myself.

>

>

> It's very often challenging, but my kids love their grandparents and that

makes it worth it for me.

>

>

> Amy

> (my husband calls me a saint and the most understanding person he knows. that

makes it feel peaceful)

>

[Guest guest]

Coal Miner's Daughter,

I haven't seen it yet...should I? These movies get me crying sometimes...The Sea

Witch in the Little Mermaid scared the voice out of me.

I am able to get to the peaceful and sweetness of life. It took years of therapy

and my ambition to be a free spirit.

Easier said than done. I still suffer though. I hope to one day not feel it so

much.

I just wish I didn't waste so much time on my mom's complaints, worries and bad

attitude. I lived to make her happy.

That's not why you have children!

Amy

Re: Henny Penny

Hi Amy,

You sound very much like the main character, the princess, in the movie

" Tangled " . Have you seen it?

+Coal Miner's Daughter

p.s. Your peaceful intentions, bringing sweetness and light into your world are

inspiring - especially if you are truly able to do this without destroying

yourself. I hope to be there someday.

>

> I know what you mean, but I would feel worse if I stood in the way of my kids

having grandparents. My parents are very nice to my kids and they have a genuine

loving relationship with each other. I feel that if I kept my kids away, I might

be exhibiting the same type of behavior that my mom has always had...keeping

family members away from each other.

>

>

> I also don't like extremes...so I believe that one extreme act brings on other

extreme acts...I've successfully balanced the playing field. No rebounding. It's

the way I like things.

>

>

> So, yes, I have a very difficult time with my mom and dad, but I put it aside

for my kids. They know that grandma is a little off, a very worried person,

overprotective...sometimes irrational...but they have a very sweet relationship

with each other.

>

>

> I've always tried to see the bigger picture, and I would rather deal with it

this way. In my world, I've always tried to bring peace and sweetness to

everything (isn't that our job as KOs of these nutty moms?) and I've put myself

aside in this respect, but I don't think I could live with myself if I wasn't

true to myself.

>

>

> It's very often challenging, but my kids love their grandparents and that

makes it worth it for me.

>

>

> Amy

> (my husband calls me a saint and the most understanding person he knows. that

makes it feel peaceful)

>

[Guest guest]

I find it remarkable that you seek peace yet tolerate contact with the

destructive, damaging source of your pain; you must have a core of steel!

I seek peace by escaping from the source of my damage, all my resilience was

leached out of me and I can't be around my nada without sustaining new injuries.

I'm happy for you that you are impervious to further damage!

I'm interested to know what made you decide to risk letting your children have

contact with your nada. Did she have some kind of ephiphany? Did she say or do

anything to reassure you that she would not do the things to them that she did

to you? What made you decide to experiment with contact?

-Annie

> >

> > Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you. Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

> >

> >

> > Sound like my nada ( and she is diagnosed with BPD)

> >

> > She never liked me, was extremely jealous on me , she abuse me- but now she

is obsessed with me wanting to be " good friends " ,refuses to see that I don't

have any relation with her and that I don't like her at all. She is completely

stuck onto me.

> > She also doesn't care about her grandchild. When my son was very little she

was kind of funny and nice gradma....but when he started to have his own opinion

- than she started to manipulate him with emotional blackmailing....I'll be so

sad if you go or behave on certain ways - I'll cray if you not tell your

mother to do that or that or behave like that and that. He had to pray if he

wanted to see a cartoon and he had to go to cemetery with her every day. I

immediately cut her off and she could see him just with my supervision. But soon

after that my son had to have a lot of surgeries and she lost her interest in

him. She came in the hospital just once - whit some totally unsuitable gift for

him ( and suitable for her) and accused him to be rude to her, not to be happy

enough with her visit and gifts. ( he had major operation and was on

analgesics...) That was the reason she never ever visit him when we where in

hospital (few times we were in hospital for months) but she never forget to ask

me at the same time - when I would come to her place to visit her , because she

is so pooooooor . Now he is 18 and she never even ask for him. Except when I

don't answer on phone he call him to call me.

> > I think she chose who she would like or with whom she would be obsessed on a

base how she or he is useful for her. She has to have somebody to live her or

his live or somebody to suck his or her energy . Doesn't matter who that

person is. Even if she hates that person ( like she hates me)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I find it remarkable that you seek peace yet tolerate contact with the

destructive, damaging source of your pain; you must have a core of steel!

I seek peace by escaping from the source of my damage, all my resilience was

leached out of me and I can't be around my nada without sustaining new injuries.

I'm happy for you that you are impervious to further damage!

I'm interested to know what made you decide to risk letting your children have

contact with your nada. Did she have some kind of ephiphany? Did she say or do

anything to reassure you that she would not do the things to them that she did

to you? What made you decide to experiment with contact?

-Annie

> >

> > Your nada's behaviors are so unusual; at least, *I've* never come across

anything like it. So, first there was her jealousy of you that caused her to

treat you badly when you were a child, but now she's like your stalker. And yet

she's unaware that you're barely in touch with her. (That seems odd!) And she

treats your kids OK and she doesn't obsessively focus on them like she still

focuses on you. Fascinatingly out of the ordinary!

> >

> >

> > Sound like my nada ( and she is diagnosed with BPD)

> >

> > She never liked me, was extremely jealous on me , she abuse me- but now she

is obsessed with me wanting to be " good friends " ,refuses to see that I don't

have any relation with her and that I don't like her at all. She is completely

stuck onto me.

> > She also doesn't care about her grandchild. When my son was very little she

was kind of funny and nice gradma....but when he started to have his own opinion

- than she started to manipulate him with emotional blackmailing....I'll be so

sad if you go or behave on certain ways - I'll cray if you not tell your

mother to do that or that or behave like that and that. He had to pray if he

wanted to see a cartoon and he had to go to cemetery with her every day. I

immediately cut her off and she could see him just with my supervision. But soon

after that my son had to have a lot of surgeries and she lost her interest in

him. She came in the hospital just once - whit some totally unsuitable gift for

him ( and suitable for her) and accused him to be rude to her, not to be happy

enough with her visit and gifts. ( he had major operation and was on

analgesics...) That was the reason she never ever visit him when we where in

hospital (few times we were in hospital for months) but she never forget to ask

me at the same time - when I would come to her place to visit her , because she

is so pooooooor . Now he is 18 and she never even ask for him. Except when I

don't answer on phone he call him to call me.

> > I think she chose who she would like or with whom she would be obsessed on a

base how she or he is useful for her. She has to have somebody to live her or

his live or somebody to suck his or her energy . Doesn't matter who that

person is. Even if she hates that person ( like she hates me)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>