Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

[Guest guest]

>>

> Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding Thanksgiving's drama, I'm

worried about Christmas and up-coming birthdays. How selfish is it of me to put

my family in the position where they have to choose to either see me or him and

miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair, but my mental status depends upon it.

Any suggestions???

>

Better question: How selfish is it of them to expect you to sacrifice yourself

in order to keep the wrath of the beast off of them for a while?

You're right, it's not fair. But it's not you who has created this situation.

It's your jerk of a father. NOT YOUR FAULT.

You have a right to do whatever you need to do to maintain your own emotional

health. You are not obligated to jump into the toxic pool.

It's not selfish to try to survive.

kt

[Guest guest]

>>

> Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding Thanksgiving's drama, I'm

worried about Christmas and up-coming birthdays. How selfish is it of me to put

my family in the position where they have to choose to either see me or him and

miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair, but my mental status depends upon it.

Any suggestions???

>

Better question: How selfish is it of them to expect you to sacrifice yourself

in order to keep the wrath of the beast off of them for a while?

You're right, it's not fair. But it's not you who has created this situation.

It's your jerk of a father. NOT YOUR FAULT.

You have a right to do whatever you need to do to maintain your own emotional

health. You are not obligated to jump into the toxic pool.

It's not selfish to try to survive.

kt

[Guest guest]

Protecting yourself from someone who is abusive to you and who

is willing to make false reports to the police is not selfish. I

recommend not giving other family members anything that sounds

like an ultimatum. Tell them that you're unable to be with him

and either invite them to visit you or ask when a good time to

visit them would be. There's no reason that they should have to

choose between you. They just need to see you at different

times. If they choose to turn that into having to choose between

you, that's on them, not on you. If it doesn't work out that

you can have holiday dinners with them, find other people to

have dinners with. You can either find people who you choose to

treat as family and get together with them or you can find some

group that does something for the holiday - maybe volunteer to

help serve a meal for the poor or for senior citizens who are

alone. Alternatively, you can just take the day and do something

you enjoy or that is meaningful to you. Holidays don't have to

involve family members to be enjoyable and special.

At 11:24 AM 11/30/2010 illgresi22 wrote:

>I'm new to the group, and I guess i sought it out because of my

>most recent decision to cut contact with my father who has

>BPD/NPD. The last straw was when after several months of not

>speaking he decided that if I didn't turn over my license

>plates he would call the police and report my car stolen (I

>just graduated college, he was helping me pay my car insurance,

>i paid for my own car in full, but evidently he was sick of

>paying $40 a month for me). Needless to say, I watched him

>physically rip off my license plates leaving me with no car for

>over a week to get to my two jobs. Not one ounce of him seemed

>to care, all his concern was how I am a " disrespectful little

>bitch " and I got what I deserved. Over the past 22 years, this

>has been no where near the worst he's done, but it was my last

>straw.

>

>Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding

>Thanksgiving's drama, I'm worried about Christmas and up-coming

>birthdays. How selfish is it of me to put my family in the

>position where they have to choose to either see me or him and

>miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair, but my mental status

>depends upon it. Any suggestions???

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Protecting yourself from someone who is abusive to you and who

is willing to make false reports to the police is not selfish. I

recommend not giving other family members anything that sounds

like an ultimatum. Tell them that you're unable to be with him

and either invite them to visit you or ask when a good time to

visit them would be. There's no reason that they should have to

choose between you. They just need to see you at different

times. If they choose to turn that into having to choose between

you, that's on them, not on you. If it doesn't work out that

you can have holiday dinners with them, find other people to

have dinners with. You can either find people who you choose to

treat as family and get together with them or you can find some

group that does something for the holiday - maybe volunteer to

help serve a meal for the poor or for senior citizens who are

alone. Alternatively, you can just take the day and do something

you enjoy or that is meaningful to you. Holidays don't have to

involve family members to be enjoyable and special.

At 11:24 AM 11/30/2010 illgresi22 wrote:

>I'm new to the group, and I guess i sought it out because of my

>most recent decision to cut contact with my father who has

>BPD/NPD. The last straw was when after several months of not

>speaking he decided that if I didn't turn over my license

>plates he would call the police and report my car stolen (I

>just graduated college, he was helping me pay my car insurance,

>i paid for my own car in full, but evidently he was sick of

>paying $40 a month for me). Needless to say, I watched him

>physically rip off my license plates leaving me with no car for

>over a week to get to my two jobs. Not one ounce of him seemed

>to care, all his concern was how I am a " disrespectful little

>bitch " and I got what I deserved. Over the past 22 years, this

>has been no where near the worst he's done, but it was my last

>straw.

>

>Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding

>Thanksgiving's drama, I'm worried about Christmas and up-coming

>birthdays. How selfish is it of me to put my family in the

>position where they have to choose to either see me or him and

>miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair, but my mental status

>depends upon it. Any suggestions???

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Protecting yourself from someone who is abusive to you and who

is willing to make false reports to the police is not selfish. I

recommend not giving other family members anything that sounds

like an ultimatum. Tell them that you're unable to be with him

and either invite them to visit you or ask when a good time to

visit them would be. There's no reason that they should have to

choose between you. They just need to see you at different

times. If they choose to turn that into having to choose between

you, that's on them, not on you. If it doesn't work out that

you can have holiday dinners with them, find other people to

have dinners with. You can either find people who you choose to

treat as family and get together with them or you can find some

group that does something for the holiday - maybe volunteer to

help serve a meal for the poor or for senior citizens who are

alone. Alternatively, you can just take the day and do something

you enjoy or that is meaningful to you. Holidays don't have to

involve family members to be enjoyable and special.

At 11:24 AM 11/30/2010 illgresi22 wrote:

>I'm new to the group, and I guess i sought it out because of my

>most recent decision to cut contact with my father who has

>BPD/NPD. The last straw was when after several months of not

>speaking he decided that if I didn't turn over my license

>plates he would call the police and report my car stolen (I

>just graduated college, he was helping me pay my car insurance,

>i paid for my own car in full, but evidently he was sick of

>paying $40 a month for me). Needless to say, I watched him

>physically rip off my license plates leaving me with no car for

>over a week to get to my two jobs. Not one ounce of him seemed

>to care, all his concern was how I am a " disrespectful little

>bitch " and I got what I deserved. Over the past 22 years, this

>has been no where near the worst he's done, but it was my last

>straw.

>

>Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding

>Thanksgiving's drama, I'm worried about Christmas and up-coming

>birthdays. How selfish is it of me to put my family in the

>position where they have to choose to either see me or him and

>miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair, but my mental status

>depends upon it. Any suggestions???

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

[Guest guest]

I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

[Guest guest]

justicecamp...

what a clear and empathetic way of describing what we all had to go thru...and

still do to ourselves.

It's exact.

It's true.

None of us are selfish in the damning way our moms used it.

If it's ok to be a little selfish to want things, relationships, friendships,

peace, quiet, etc...then let us all be selfish!

(I still don't know how to do it yet!)

Amy

Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

[Guest guest]

justicecamp...

what a clear and empathetic way of describing what we all had to go thru...and

still do to ourselves.

It's exact.

It's true.

None of us are selfish in the damning way our moms used it.

If it's ok to be a little selfish to want things, relationships, friendships,

peace, quiet, etc...then let us all be selfish!

(I still don't know how to do it yet!)

Amy

Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

[Guest guest]

don't worry amy, you have made a commitment to do it and with help from good

people and opportunities that come your way you will make progress towards a

greater mastery of the process. it takes time as well as work and commitment i

think.. you can do it! one day at a time and soon you will be marveling in the

changes in you.. with your commitment it can be done.. sometimes quickly and

sometimes slowly. Â relax and let it happen is my advice.blessings on your

journey towards healing.ann

Subject: Re: Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:04 AM

Â

justicecamp...

what a clear and empathetic way of describing what we all had to go thru...and

still do to ourselves.

It's exact.

It's true.

None of us are selfish in the damning way our moms used it.

If it's ok to be a little selfish to want things, relationships, friendships,

peace, quiet, etc...then let us all be selfish!

(I still don't know how to do it yet!)

Amy

Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

[Guest guest]

don't worry amy, you have made a commitment to do it and with help from good

people and opportunities that come your way you will make progress towards a

greater mastery of the process. it takes time as well as work and commitment i

think.. you can do it! one day at a time and soon you will be marveling in the

changes in you.. with your commitment it can be done.. sometimes quickly and

sometimes slowly. Â relax and let it happen is my advice.blessings on your

journey towards healing.ann

Subject: Re: Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 10:04 AM

Â

justicecamp...

what a clear and empathetic way of describing what we all had to go thru...and

still do to ourselves.

It's exact.

It's true.

None of us are selfish in the damning way our moms used it.

If it's ok to be a little selfish to want things, relationships, friendships,

peace, quiet, etc...then let us all be selfish!

(I still don't know how to do it yet!)

Amy

Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

[Guest guest]

thanks Ann...some days are better than others, but it always seems to color

everything.

Amy

Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

[Guest guest]

thanks Ann...some days are better than others, but it always seems to color

everything.

Amy

Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

[Guest guest]

How could it possibly be selfish to want to survive?

How selfish of YOUR FATHER to put all of you in a no-win situation!!! And you

had NOTHING to do with that!!

This isn't your fault. You just want to survive and not be horribly abused.

Nothing is wrong with that. In fact, everything is RIGHT with that. This isn't

your fault, and it's not yours to smooth over. If anyone is sad over having to

choose, that's your Dad's responsibility. Not yours. You didn't create this.

His insanity did. That kind of behavior was scary to the extreme, and I'm

guessing he would have been hauled away in handcuffs if a police officer was

there to witness that license plate episode.

Please protect yourself. Making best efforts to keep your mental state intact

isn't selfish--that's something we all have a right to, even though BPD has

tried over and over to strip us of that right.

I get it. I never went NC with nada because I was angry or sick of it or done.

I simply couldn't withstand her abuse anymore and stay alive too. It became as

simple as that. Let her continue her sick, wildly abusive behavior for free?

Or keep breathing another day?

What a sick, sad choice they force us to make.

I'm so sorry. Please do what you need to do. Feelings of hurt will be soon

forgotten. But there is only one of you. You are the more valuable choice,

here.

Blessings,

Karla

p.s. I don't know if you have a copy of " boomerang love " by Lynn Melville, but

I'd highly recommend it. In fact, I think I'll post her thoughts on " the most

valuable dog. " It speaks to this whole issue.

>

> I'm new to the group, and I guess i sought it out because of my most recent

decision to cut contact with my father who has BPD/NPD. The last straw was when

after several months of not speaking he decided that if I didn't turn over my

license plates he would call the police and report my car stolen (I just

graduated college, he was helping me pay my car insurance, i paid for my own car

in full, but evidently he was sick of paying $40 a month for me). Needless to

say, I watched him physically rip off my license plates leaving me with no car

for over a week to get to my two jobs. Not one ounce of him seemed to care, all

his concern was how I am a " disrespectful little bitch " and I got what I

deserved. Over the past 22 years, this has been no where near the worst he's

done, but it was my last straw.

>

> Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding Thanksgiving's drama, I'm

worried about Christmas and up-coming birthdays. How selfish is it of me to put

my family in the position where they have to choose to either see me or him and

miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair, but my mental status depends upon it.

Any suggestions???

>

[Guest guest]

How could it possibly be selfish to want to survive?

How selfish of YOUR FATHER to put all of you in a no-win situation!!! And you

had NOTHING to do with that!!

This isn't your fault. You just want to survive and not be horribly abused.

Nothing is wrong with that. In fact, everything is RIGHT with that. This isn't

your fault, and it's not yours to smooth over. If anyone is sad over having to

choose, that's your Dad's responsibility. Not yours. You didn't create this.

His insanity did. That kind of behavior was scary to the extreme, and I'm

guessing he would have been hauled away in handcuffs if a police officer was

there to witness that license plate episode.

Please protect yourself. Making best efforts to keep your mental state intact

isn't selfish--that's something we all have a right to, even though BPD has

tried over and over to strip us of that right.

I get it. I never went NC with nada because I was angry or sick of it or done.

I simply couldn't withstand her abuse anymore and stay alive too. It became as

simple as that. Let her continue her sick, wildly abusive behavior for free?

Or keep breathing another day?

What a sick, sad choice they force us to make.

I'm so sorry. Please do what you need to do. Feelings of hurt will be soon

forgotten. But there is only one of you. You are the more valuable choice,

here.

Blessings,

Karla

p.s. I don't know if you have a copy of " boomerang love " by Lynn Melville, but

I'd highly recommend it. In fact, I think I'll post her thoughts on " the most

valuable dog. " It speaks to this whole issue.

>

> I'm new to the group, and I guess i sought it out because of my most recent

decision to cut contact with my father who has BPD/NPD. The last straw was when

after several months of not speaking he decided that if I didn't turn over my

license plates he would call the police and report my car stolen (I just

graduated college, he was helping me pay my car insurance, i paid for my own car

in full, but evidently he was sick of paying $40 a month for me). Needless to

say, I watched him physically rip off my license plates leaving me with no car

for over a week to get to my two jobs. Not one ounce of him seemed to care, all

his concern was how I am a " disrespectful little bitch " and I got what I

deserved. Over the past 22 years, this has been no where near the worst he's

done, but it was my last straw.

>

> Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding Thanksgiving's drama, I'm

worried about Christmas and up-coming birthdays. How selfish is it of me to put

my family in the position where they have to choose to either see me or him and

miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair, but my mental status depends upon it.

Any suggestions???

>

[Guest guest]

I really resonate with your insight; I think that is very true that having a

borderline/narcissistic pd parent makes the child feel superfluous and driven to

prove that we can meet nada's needs so we can earn her love.

I too was accused of being " selfish " often; it was like my middle name, and I

was expected to be a mind-reader.

Seems to me there is a certain level of bizarre and unrealistic expectation in

the bpd/npd mother that her kids *owe her* for having been born, and resentment

from nada when the " payoff " doesn't meet nada's expectations.

Its like we're born owing a debt that can never be paid because nada keeps

adding interest.

-Annie

>

> I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

>

> In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

>

> But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

>

> Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

>

> So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

>

[Guest guest]

" You're selfish " does seem to be one of their favorite

accusations, doesn't it? If it doesn't further their desires and

goals, it is selfish in their minds. Simply wanting to be

yourself and not an extension of them is " selfish " .

I like the description of how our nadas keep adding interest to

a debt. That really does seem to fit the way they make demands.

At 01:03 PM 12/01/2010 anuria67854 wrote:

>I really resonate with your insight; I think that is very true

>that having a borderline/narcissistic pd parent makes the child

>feel superfluous and driven to prove that we can meet nada's

>needs so we can earn her love.

>

>I too was accused of being " selfish " often; it was like my

>middle name, and I was expected to be a mind-reader.

>

>Seems to me there is a certain level of bizarre and unrealistic

>expectation in the bpd/npd mother that her kids *owe her* for

>having been born, and resentment from nada when the " payoff "

>doesn't meet nada's expectations.

>

>Its like we're born owing a debt that can never be paid because

>nada keeps adding interest.

>

>-Annie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

" You're selfish " does seem to be one of their favorite

accusations, doesn't it? If it doesn't further their desires and

goals, it is selfish in their minds. Simply wanting to be

yourself and not an extension of them is " selfish " .

I like the description of how our nadas keep adding interest to

a debt. That really does seem to fit the way they make demands.

At 01:03 PM 12/01/2010 anuria67854 wrote:

>I really resonate with your insight; I think that is very true

>that having a borderline/narcissistic pd parent makes the child

>feel superfluous and driven to prove that we can meet nada's

>needs so we can earn her love.

>

>I too was accused of being " selfish " often; it was like my

>middle name, and I was expected to be a mind-reader.

>

>Seems to me there is a certain level of bizarre and unrealistic

>expectation in the bpd/npd mother that her kids *owe her* for

>having been born, and resentment from nada when the " payoff "

>doesn't meet nada's expectations.

>

>Its like we're born owing a debt that can never be paid because

>nada keeps adding interest.

>

>-Annie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Justicecamp--

How true! Your post got me thinking about the BPD's definition of " selfish. "

Selfish, BPD-style means: you aren't making my whole world and my psychotic

emotions completely perfect. You are holding me responsible for my behavior.

You are forgetting your sole purpose for your existence, which is to be my

slave. You are not using the magical powers I need you to have to make my world

complete and make me feel okay about myself. You have forgotten to worship me

in a way that will applaud/reward me for my hideous treatment of you. You,

therefore, are selfish.

I'd say it's time we all upgrade our definition of the word, don't you?

According to Merriam Webster, selfish means:

1: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating

on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others

2: arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of

others

Yeah . . right. When, in the history of the universe, could any KO afford

that????? We never had the luxury--nada and fada were selfish enough for 50

people. There was simply none left over for us, even if we had wanted to be

selfish.

Sheesh.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

>

> In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

>

> But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

>

> Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

>

> So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

>

[Guest guest]

The ironic thing about this is that it's good to be selfish to a degree.

Being self-less isn't really good...narcissistic is the opposite extreme...

A good healthy dose of selfishness is what we could all use!

I'm still working on that!

Amy

Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

Justicecamp--

How true! Your post got me thinking about the BPD's definition of " selfish. "

Selfish, BPD-style means: you aren't making my whole world and my psychotic

emotions completely perfect. You are holding me responsible for my behavior.

You are forgetting your sole purpose for your existence, which is to be my

slave. You are not using the magical powers I need you to have to make my world

complete and make me feel okay about myself. You have forgotten to worship me

in a way that will applaud/reward me for my hideous treatment of you. You,

therefore, are selfish.

I'd say it's time we all upgrade our definition of the word, don't you?

According to Merriam Webster, selfish means:

1: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating

on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others

2: arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of

others

Yeah . . right. When, in the history of the universe, could any KO afford

that????? We never had the luxury--nada and fada were selfish enough for 50

people. There was simply none left over for us, even if we had wanted to be

selfish.

Sheesh.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

>

> In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

>

> But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

>

> Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

>

> So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

>

[Guest guest]

Justicecamp, beautifully said, that's it in a nutshell. My nada and FOO used

selfish as a cussword too and *ungrateful*. KO's are supposed to be completely

selfless and grateful for every little thing in their minds.

I think about stories I hear of adult children who become criminals, who steal

from their parents, who bring danger to the home of their parents, who become

addicts....and many of those parents are *still* there for them and struggle to

set boundaries to protect themselves. Yet a BPD parent considers even a

straight A student who never gets in trouble horrible, selfish,

ungrateful...worthy of spewing hate on for not *giving* what they think she/he

should.

julie

>

> I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

>

> In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

>

> But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

>

> Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

>

> So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

>

[Guest guest]

I grew up the exact same way. Even witnessed grand nada doing it to nada. It is

so strange how they behave in almost the exact same manner using the exact same

words...

 

Subject: Re: Am I being selfish? - Need advice

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 5:31 PM

 

Justicecamp, beautifully said, that's it in a nutshell. My nada and FOO used

selfish as a cussword too and *ungrateful*. KO's are supposed to be completely

selfless and grateful for every little thing in their minds.

I think about stories I hear of adult children who become criminals, who steal

from their parents, who bring danger to the home of their parents, who become

addicts....and many of those parents are *still* there for them and struggle to

set boundaries to protect themselves. Yet a BPD parent considers even a straight

A student who never gets in trouble horrible, selfish, ungrateful...worthy of

spewing hate on for not *giving* what they think she/he should.

julie

>

> I think this is a classic question among the children of BPDs. Why? Because

growing up with someone who is obsessed with herself makes a child feel

superfluous. Your needs couldn't possibly matter more than the needs of the BPD.

>

> In my case ... my BPD parent always said the word " selfish " as if it was a

cussword. " She's just SELFISH, " she would say about someone -- or about me. What

sins had we " selfish " people committed? It was all blown out of proportion. We

had chosen the nicest cookie from the tray. We had carelessly forgotten to do

something she had asked us to. We had failed to read her mind.

>

> But always lurking in OUR minds was this deadly: that we might really be

selfish, this terrible unredeemable quality. And if we were SELFISH, then she

would HATE us. I mean, openly hate us.

>

> Growing up with a BPD parent has a lot to do with constantly trying to prove

that you aren't selfish, that in fact you are selfless, that you would do

anything for her.

>

> So it's a trigger for us all our lives: the very idea that someone might judge

even our most normal choices or survival strategies as selfishness.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for the wonderful suggestions. As i'm sure all of you can

relate, it's a little hard hearing that others agree with me or that making my

decision to not see or speak to my father is okay. The word " survive " really hit

hard with me. I am surviving at this point...it's all i can do to stay sane. For

a while now I've felt the burden of carrying the weight of my entire family's

emotional issues. Being the oldest I've been given the role of " the rock " and

the one that holds it all together. And being that I've got a psychology

degree...everyone's looking for answers.

Because my father is also an alcoholic he goes to the bar every night and talks

to people in town (mainly my friend's father's) and they will tell me things

that they've heard about ME. How disrespectful, selfish, childish, immature and

crazy i am. So unfortunately for me, it doesn't end with cutting contact. I feel

like i have to flee the state sometimes

> >I'm new to the group, and I guess i sought it out because of my

> >most recent decision to cut contact with my father who has

> >BPD/NPD. The last straw was when after several months of not

> >speaking he decided that if I didn't turn over my license

> >plates he would call the police and report my car stolen (I

> >just graduated college, he was helping me pay my car insurance,

> >i paid for my own car in full, but evidently he was sick of

> >paying $40 a month for me). Needless to say, I watched him

> >physically rip off my license plates leaving me with no car for

> >over a week to get to my two jobs. Not one ounce of him seemed

> >to care, all his concern was how I am a " disrespectful little

> >bitch " and I got what I deserved. Over the past 22 years, this

> >has been no where near the worst he's done, but it was my last

> >straw.

> >

> >Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding

> >Thanksgiving's drama, I'm worried about Christmas and up-coming

> >birthdays. How selfish is it of me to put my family in the

> >position where they have to choose to either see me or him and

> >miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair, but my mental status

> >depends upon it. Any suggestions???

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Katrina, you have asked for advice, as as one who's stood in your shoes, my

opinion is not only are you NOT being selfish, you are taking necessary and

important steps to save yourself emotionally and mentally. You are young enough

to put together an alternative family for yourself--either your own--or to be

adopted into someone else's healthier family whom you can join for holidays.

Maybe you have a brother or sister who is sane and loving, and you can simply

start to celebrate holidays separately with them.

Believe me, after the initial turbulence from separating from the toxic parent,

you will have much more peace and happiness. But you must fill the void with

people--healthy people who can give loving kindness. If you don't have a family

to join right now, you can volunteer over the holidays. There's nothing like

keeping busy helping others to make yourself feel better. Also, being around

other volunteers, who are also good people, is a positive environment.

Lastly, break away now, if you are ready. There is only so much " ready " you can

be, but it usually involves consulting a wounded, ugly pain inside that flares

up whenever you're around Nada or Fada, and the realization that this never

changes, not even on the deathbed or afterward, and you must find someone else

to feed your soul. Good luck, and I wish you the best.

AFB

> > >I'm new to the group, and I guess i sought it out because of my

> > >most recent decision to cut contact with my father who has

> > >BPD/NPD. The last straw was when after several months of not

> > >speaking he decided that if I didn't turn over my license

> > >plates he would call the police and report my car stolen (I

> > >just graduated college, he was helping me pay my car insurance,

> > >i paid for my own car in full, but evidently he was sick of

> > >paying $40 a month for me). Needless to say, I watched him

> > >physically rip off my license plates leaving me with no car for

> > >over a week to get to my two jobs. Not one ounce of him seemed

> > >to care, all his concern was how I am a " disrespectful little

> > >bitch " and I got what I deserved. Over the past 22 years, this

> > >has been no where near the worst he's done, but it was my last

> > >straw.

> > >

> > >Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding

> > >Thanksgiving's drama, I'm worried about Christmas and up-coming

> > >birthdays. How selfish is it of me to put my family in the

> > >position where they have to choose to either see me or him and

> > >miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair, but my mental status

> > >depends upon it. Any suggestions???

> >

> > --

> > Katrina

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Someone who was not a KO, or an abused woman, would never have to ask.

Of COURSE you get as far as possible from this mean, viscious ,

detestable human being. Treat it as lifeboat rules, burning building

rules. Do whatever it takes to get away and stay away.

YOU, Kate, are not the one " putting the family in that situation. " If

he were not such a thorough ass, it could be a nice gathering. He has

warped your thinking to the point that you respond like the wife or

girlfriend who is beaten by her man, then apologizes to him when he

says, see what you made me do.

People in town who listen to the rantings of a drunk, abusive, asshole,

and then choose to tell you what a DLB you are, these are not your

friends. The next one who comes to you like that, tell them, you are

the wind, and I don t hear you. Get away from me and stay away from me.

You will find their are good and worthwhile people out there. You

havent found them yet. As to your family seeing you or him at

Christmas, sometimes their are hard decisions. Honestly, Kate, do you

think you are the only one he treats like shit? Trust me , they have

seen it as well.

Choose life and health. Pay the price, even if that is starting over

with friends and family members.

You should read the book Safe People, by Cloud and Townsend. So far,

you have not learned to be, and to find, safe people in your life. But

you can, as you heal.

And, may we all heal.

Doug

>

> I'm new to the group, and I guess i sought it out because of my most

recent decision to cut contact with my father who has BPD/NPD. The last

straw was when after several months of not speaking he decided that if I

didn't turn over my license plates he would call the police and report

my car stolen (I just graduated college, he was helping me pay my car

insurance, i paid for my own car in full, but evidently he was sick of

paying $40 a month for me). Needless to say, I watched him physically

rip off my license plates leaving me with no car for over a week to get

to my two jobs. Not one ounce of him seemed to care, all his concern was

how I am a " disrespectful little bitch " and I got what I deserved. Over

the past 22 years, this has been no where near the worst he's done, but

it was my last straw.

>

> Being the oldest of three, and successfully avoiding Thanksgiving's

drama, I'm worried about Christmas and up-coming birthdays. How selfish

is it of me to put my family in the position where they have to choose

to either see me or him and miss out on one of us? I know it's unfair,

but my mental status depends upon it. Any suggestions???

>