Should I talk to Nada about her weight?

[Guest guest]

Hi, all,

I just finished a really tough, 90 minute conversation with my dad about Mom.

Long story short, she has always been obsessed with her weight, even when I was

a kid and she was incredibly skinny. Every day she'd ask me, " Am I getting fat?

Do I look like I'm losing weight? " And I can't remember her eating except in

small bites before she turned 36 (I was 12/13).

Now, Mom is in her early 50s, and has to be close to 300 pounds on a 5'6 frame

(or used to be 5'6... I'm pretty sure she's already started shrinking). I only

see her about once a month, but each time I am struck by how much bigger she is

than I even remembered. She knows she's fat, but as a typical BP, is in complete

denial about her role in it. She blames anything and everyone but herself. One

minute she tells Dad it's his fault; he made her fat. The next, she blames her

hypothyroidism (which is perfectly under control with medication). She doesn't

seems to realize that she orders pizza about twice a week, puts butter on

everything, even her vegetables, drinks can after can of diet soda, and, aside

from a walk a few times a week with the dog, gets no exercise. Her mother is a

type 2 diabetic who, thankfully, keeps it under control with diet alone. But

this does mean that Nada is genetically at risk for the same disease.

I'm not sure what to do. I know she's going to be pissed if any of us talk to

her about this, but I'd be willing to put up with it if I thought any of it

would get through at all. As much as I just hate her sometimes, I can hear that

my dad is terrified, and I myself am frightened by the thought of her being in a

wheelchair or worse in ten years. If she gets diabetes, I know it will only get

worse, since she'll never be able to follow the diet.

Is it worth my saying a damn thing? Even to ease my own conscience? If I do, any

suggestions on how to go about it?

[Guest guest]

Jgar,

What do you think you can accomplish by saying something? She

knows she's fat. I can't see how she could avoid knowing that

being that overweight can cause health problems. She presumably

knows her mother's health history. If she knows all of those

things and chooses not to take action, do you have any reason to

think that you'd change anything for the better by saying

something to her? If she doesn't seem to realize that the way

she's eating and acting isn't good, it is because she doesn't

want to admit it.

It isn't your responsibility to somehow force her to make

changes in her life. She's an adult, not a child. If she doesn't

want to admit that what she's doing is unhealthy, you telling

her isn't going to make her suddenly come to her senses. If she

were mentally healthy, maybe talking to her could be a wake-up

call, but she's not mentally healthy and things don't work that

way when BPD is involved. It is likely that the only thing that

saying something to her will do is cause her to lash out at you

for trying to make her admit what she already knows. There's no

reason to feel guilty if you don't say anything to her. Despite

the way many of us were raised, we don't need to feel guilty

about failing to somehow fix everything in our nadas' lives.

That's just plain not our responsibility nor is it even within

our control.

If you do say something to her, try to phrase it in a

non-accusatory way that says you're concerned about her. Nadas

feel attacked so easily and once they feel attacked they stop

listening and attack back. Maybe you could talk about how good

some form of exercise feels to you and say that you think she'd

enjoy it. Or talk about some low-cal recipes you've enjoyed that

she might like. I find that it is much easier to get my nada to

listen to suggestions if I can get her to think that making the

change is her idea, not mine. Be prepared for her to totally not

get the point though.

At 12:00 PM 12/01/2010 Jgar wrote:

>Hi, all,

>

>I just finished a really tough, 90 minute conversation with my

>dad about Mom.

>

>Long story short, she has always been obsessed with her weight,

>even when I was a kid and she was incredibly skinny. Every day

>she'd ask me, " Am I getting fat? Do I look like I'm losing

>weight? " And I can't remember her eating except in small bites

>before she turned 36 (I was 12/13).

>

>Now, Mom is in her early 50s, and has to be close to 300 pounds

>on a 5'6 frame (or used to be 5'6... I'm pretty sure she's

>already started shrinking). I only see her about once a month,

>but each time I am struck by how much bigger she is than I even

>remembered. She knows she's fat, but as a typical BP, is in

>complete denial about her role in it. She blames anything and

>everyone but herself. One minute she tells Dad it's his fault;

>he made her fat. The next, she blames her hypothyroidism (which

>is perfectly under control with medication). She doesn't seems

>to realize that she orders pizza about twice a week, puts

>butter on everything, even her vegetables, drinks can after can

>of diet soda, and, aside from a walk a few times a week with

>the dog, gets no exercise. Her mother is a type 2 diabetic who,

>thankfully, keeps it under control with diet alone. But this

>does mean that Nada is genetically at risk for the same disease.

>

>I'm not sure what to do. I know she's going to be pissed if any

>of us talk to her about this, but I'd be willing to put up with

>it if I thought any of it would get through at all. As much as

>I just hate her sometimes, I can hear that my dad is terrified,

>and I myself am frightened by the thought of her being in a

>wheelchair or worse in ten years. If she gets diabetes, I know

>it will only get worse, since she'll never be able to follow

>the diet.

>

>Is it worth my saying a damn thing? Even to ease my own

>conscience? If I do, any suggestions on how to go about it?

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Jgar,

What do you think you can accomplish by saying something? She

knows she's fat. I can't see how she could avoid knowing that

being that overweight can cause health problems. She presumably

knows her mother's health history. If she knows all of those

things and chooses not to take action, do you have any reason to

think that you'd change anything for the better by saying

something to her? If she doesn't seem to realize that the way

she's eating and acting isn't good, it is because she doesn't

want to admit it.

It isn't your responsibility to somehow force her to make

changes in her life. She's an adult, not a child. If she doesn't

want to admit that what she's doing is unhealthy, you telling

her isn't going to make her suddenly come to her senses. If she

were mentally healthy, maybe talking to her could be a wake-up

call, but she's not mentally healthy and things don't work that

way when BPD is involved. It is likely that the only thing that

saying something to her will do is cause her to lash out at you

for trying to make her admit what she already knows. There's no

reason to feel guilty if you don't say anything to her. Despite

the way many of us were raised, we don't need to feel guilty

about failing to somehow fix everything in our nadas' lives.

That's just plain not our responsibility nor is it even within

our control.

If you do say something to her, try to phrase it in a

non-accusatory way that says you're concerned about her. Nadas

feel attacked so easily and once they feel attacked they stop

listening and attack back. Maybe you could talk about how good

some form of exercise feels to you and say that you think she'd

enjoy it. Or talk about some low-cal recipes you've enjoyed that

she might like. I find that it is much easier to get my nada to

listen to suggestions if I can get her to think that making the

change is her idea, not mine. Be prepared for her to totally not

get the point though.

At 12:00 PM 12/01/2010 Jgar wrote:

>Hi, all,

>

>I just finished a really tough, 90 minute conversation with my

>dad about Mom.

>

>Long story short, she has always been obsessed with her weight,

>even when I was a kid and she was incredibly skinny. Every day

>she'd ask me, " Am I getting fat? Do I look like I'm losing

>weight? " And I can't remember her eating except in small bites

>before she turned 36 (I was 12/13).

>

>Now, Mom is in her early 50s, and has to be close to 300 pounds

>on a 5'6 frame (or used to be 5'6... I'm pretty sure she's

>already started shrinking). I only see her about once a month,

>but each time I am struck by how much bigger she is than I even

>remembered. She knows she's fat, but as a typical BP, is in

>complete denial about her role in it. She blames anything and

>everyone but herself. One minute she tells Dad it's his fault;

>he made her fat. The next, she blames her hypothyroidism (which

>is perfectly under control with medication). She doesn't seems

>to realize that she orders pizza about twice a week, puts

>butter on everything, even her vegetables, drinks can after can

>of diet soda, and, aside from a walk a few times a week with

>the dog, gets no exercise. Her mother is a type 2 diabetic who,

>thankfully, keeps it under control with diet alone. But this

>does mean that Nada is genetically at risk for the same disease.

>

>I'm not sure what to do. I know she's going to be pissed if any

>of us talk to her about this, but I'd be willing to put up with

>it if I thought any of it would get through at all. As much as

>I just hate her sometimes, I can hear that my dad is terrified,

>and I myself am frightened by the thought of her being in a

>wheelchair or worse in ten years. If she gets diabetes, I know

>it will only get worse, since she'll never be able to follow

>the diet.

>

>Is it worth my saying a damn thing? Even to ease my own

>conscience? If I do, any suggestions on how to go about it?

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

No, it is not worth your time. As for your conscience, let it be clear.

You are talking about an adult human being, who can, and certainly will,

make her own decisions.

My nada had an ATA ( aortic thoracic anuerysm) . It is a very serious

, life threatening condition. She was supposed to stay on BP meds and

have a CT scan every six months. Instead , of course, she gaslighted

what the Dr said, refused to let me speak to the Dr about her course of

treatment, stopped the CT scans, declared that God had healed her and Dr

McK said so!

I also tried to get her to stop smoking since it is linked to vascular

disease and could exacerbate her condition.

When I tried to talk to her, she would get defensive, or wounded, or

change the subject, or attack one of my hot buttons and try to get me

raging. You kn0w, typical BP stuff.

She was always right, I was always wrong, she would not permit any

situation in which her lies could be confronted. I finally gave up.

End game? On July 2, 2009, the aneurysm dissected and killed her within

minutes.

So, FOGgy? Guilty? Sure , she programmed me to be so. Could I have

done more than I did? Yes. Would any effort, any ploy to make her take

better care of herself have done a single thing to change her behavior?

Of course not.

I know of very, very few BP s who enter serious therapy, such as DBT,

and improve and heal from their condition. I can t say what those folks

would do. I can tell you that an untreated, unrecovered BP will do

exactly what the hell they want to do, blame the results on everyone

else but themselves, and resent, torture, and make miserable anyone who

tries to change them.

It is a losing proposition. Don t put yourself thru it. It won t help.

It will make you feel worse. If she decides to change, she will. If

not, your fears are correct, her weight will contribute to her earlier

death. You can t stop that. It s not your fault.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone to replied to this and set me back on track. You guys are

right. I was just fluffed up into this alarmist state by my dad, and somehow

managed to temporarily forget that there's always *some* kind of emergency

surrounding her health, but that no advice I've ever given her has done anything

but backfire. I'm going to shut my yap.

>

> No, it is not worth your time. As for your conscience, let it be clear.

> You are talking about an adult human being, who can, and certainly will,

> make her own decisions.

>

> My nada had an ATA ( aortic thoracic anuerysm) . It is a very serious

> , life threatening condition. She was supposed to stay on BP meds and

> have a CT scan every six months. Instead , of course, she gaslighted

> what the Dr said, refused to let me speak to the Dr about her course of

> treatment, stopped the CT scans, declared that God had healed her and Dr

> McK said so!

>

> I also tried to get her to stop smoking since it is linked to vascular

> disease and could exacerbate her condition.

> When I tried to talk to her, she would get defensive, or wounded, or

> change the subject, or attack one of my hot buttons and try to get me

> raging. You kn0w, typical BP stuff.

>

> She was always right, I was always wrong, she would not permit any

> situation in which her lies could be confronted. I finally gave up.

>

> End game? On July 2, 2009, the aneurysm dissected and killed her within

> minutes.

>

> So, FOGgy? Guilty? Sure , she programmed me to be so. Could I have

> done more than I did? Yes. Would any effort, any ploy to make her take

> better care of herself have done a single thing to change her behavior?

> Of course not.

>

> I know of very, very few BP s who enter serious therapy, such as DBT,

> and improve and heal from their condition. I can t say what those folks

> would do. I can tell you that an untreated, unrecovered BP will do

> exactly what the hell they want to do, blame the results on everyone

> else but themselves, and resent, torture, and make miserable anyone who

> tries to change them.

>

> It is a losing proposition. Don t put yourself thru it. It won t help.

> It will make you feel worse. If she decides to change, she will. If

> not, your fears are correct, her weight will contribute to her earlier

> death. You can t stop that. It s not your fault.

>

> Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly. For a BP, Life is a crisis. Every thing is an " event " . But

once we wake up to it, we no longer have to play.

The smoker who smokes for 4o years, suddenly decides it is a crisis when

the heart attack, lung cancer, copd, or other inevitable event occurs.

BP s create crisis by living as they do. It is their sad and sick

choice.

It need not be ours.

Doug

>

> Thanks to everyone to replied to this and set me back on track. You

guys are right. I was just fluffed up into this alarmist state by my

dad, and somehow managed to temporarily forget that there's always

*some* kind of emergency surrounding her health, but that no advice I've

ever given her has done anything but backfire. I'm going to shut my yap.

>

[Guest guest]

Exactly. For a BP, Life is a crisis. Every thing is an " event " . But

once we wake up to it, we no longer have to play.

The smoker who smokes for 4o years, suddenly decides it is a crisis when

the heart attack, lung cancer, copd, or other inevitable event occurs.

BP s create crisis by living as they do. It is their sad and sick

choice.

It need not be ours.

Doug

>

> Thanks to everyone to replied to this and set me back on track. You

guys are right. I was just fluffed up into this alarmist state by my

dad, and somehow managed to temporarily forget that there's always

*some* kind of emergency surrounding her health, but that no advice I've

ever given her has done anything but backfire. I'm going to shut my yap.

>

[Guest guest]

I think my nada should have just bought herself a room full of bobble-head dolls

instead of marrying and having kids, because all she really wanted was an

entourage nodding agreement with her, like a Queen with her court, people just

nodding and saying " Yes! " to her all day.

OMG YES!

Re: Should I talk to Nada about her weight?

I agree, its pointless to do so.

My nada actively solicits advice/opinions from Sister (and used to from me) and

then blame us if the whatever didn't turn out the perfect way nada wanted it to.

" Yes, I think you're putting on too much weight. " Oh, Lord, I don't even want to

think about what kind of shrieking retaliation that would have touched off.

" Should I sell the house? " " Should I move to a different apartment? " She'd do

this to Sister more than to me, since Sister lives near her, but even back 3

years ago when I was still in contact with nada she asked my advice RE whether

she should make a certain investment or not.

Sister and I both learned that giving our opinion or offering advice to nada was

guaranteed to result in blame and abuse later, since pretty much nothing ever

turns out to nada's satisfaction. We learned to just deflect her entreaties for

advice, with something like " I'm the last person on the planet that you'd want

to ask about xyz, I know nothing about xyz. " or " I'd ask so-and-so, s/he knows

about stuff like that. " Just saying, " That's up to you, nada, its your

decision " didn't work; nada didn't want the responsibility of making the choice

because then there would be nobody to blame but herself if it didn't turn out

perfectly.

I think my nada should have just bought herself a room full of bobble-head dolls

instead of marrying and having kids, because all she really wanted was an

entourage nodding agreement with her, like a Queen with her court, people just

nodding and saying " Yes! " to her all day.

-Annie

> >

> > Thanks to everyone to replied to this and set me back on track. You

> guys are right. I was just fluffed up into this alarmist state by my

> dad, and somehow managed to temporarily forget that there's always

> *some* kind of emergency surrounding her health, but that no advice I've

> ever given her has done anything but backfire. I'm going to shut my yap.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I accidentally hit send by hitting enter, I think, on that one line post. Last

time I tried to delete a post, it showed up in the Daily Digest anyway. Has

this happened to anyone else?

So, here's the point of why I bring this up, I had a quick, involuntary thought

of, " It's a sign; I shouldn't write the rest of the post. " This type of

superstitious thinking has invaded my life for years from nada. I don't even

believe in that crap. I feel like one of those people from the middle ages who

lived under the fear of all kinds of superstitions. It is tiring to fend this

off in myself.

p.s. Some smart*ss on here is thinking, " Yeah, that superstition was right; this

is a pointless post. " ha ha

Anyway, back to the thread (great thread):

This is my nadas thing, like it totally runs her life. Her weight, her

appearance, her clothes, and most importantly, her hair. Here's the thing, my

nada is a very attractive woman, in a very different way from me. She has dark

hair with auburn touches and a skintone like a china doll with perfectly formed

features and pretty, full lips. She dyes her hair almost EVERY WEEK! And used

to ask me every time how it looked. Sometimes it was almost orange or bright

brassy blonde. She'd say, " Now we really look like mother and daughter! My

hair is blonde just like yours! " NOT. Mostly she dyes it shades of brunette.

Then she's affronted if you don't notice the minute difference. I got to where

I'd just hand out the compliment without waiting for her to ask. It was easier

that way.

So, complimenting your weight is the best gift she can give you. I was seeing

her 2 or 3 times a week and she would say EVERYTIME, " I can really tell you're

losing weight. " Well, I wasn't. The last time she asked if these certain pants

made her look fatter because they were one size larger. I just said, " Yeah,

they make you look fat. " I went on to tell her that wearing them a little

bigger was actually better. This is the ONLY time I EVER answered her

sarcastically. I was just fed up, you know? She has not asked me about her

appearance since.

+Coal Miner's Daughter

>

> Annie,

> That's a great image - Queen nada with a court of bobble-head

> dolls.

>

> I try to turn nada's questions back on her because answering

> anything that requires an opinion that might be different from

> nada's is dangerous. If I can't do that I try to give a neutral

> answer. " Does my hair look okay? " is one of my nada's worst

> questions. There's no possible good answer to that. If I say it

> does, she'll later decide that it wasn't perfect and blame me

> for saying it was okay. If I say it doesn't, and she doesn't see

> anything wrong with it, then I've insulted her hairdo and thus

> her as a person. The question is made even worse by the fact

> that she has a history of choosing hair styles and colors that I

> think look awful at best.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ha ha ha,lol,Coal Miner's Daughter,I suffer from " involuntary superstitious

thinking " at times,too.

It usually happens when I am trying to do something and hit some sort of

snafu---then I catch myself automatically assuming " It's a sign I shouldn't try

to do this,it's going to turn out wrong/bad " .Or once in a while in the morning

before work if I go to get a coffee at the local coffee shop and encounter

somebody else in a pissy or pushy mood,then I catch myself thinking: " Aw

shit,this is going to be a lousy day,it's a sign... " I always tell myself to

stop it because I know rationally that *my own attitude* determines the outcome

of events for the most part and I also resent even having these passing

" superstitious thoughts " because they aren't me.I know that as a child I had to

engage in " magical thinking " alot in the hope of being able to have things be ok

and that got tacked on to reflexive self blame when I got hurt.So some of it is

an old unconscious habit even though I don't " believe " in it.

I thought it was interesting that you said you feel like one of those

people from the middle ages because I found this website (Lloyd deMause) that

had a graph on it of how different parenting styles relate to different

historical periods--the average nada parenting style with all the

splitting,projection,blame and enmeshment related most to the Medieval

Period.Our nadas " raise " us the way people treated children back in the Middle

Ages...I wanted to post that graph on here but when I went back to that website

I couldn't find it.

I fend it off,myself,by reminding myself that I *do* have free will and

that dread is just a feeling,not a fact.It only becomes a " fact " if we allow it

to determine our decisions.And I do,at times,even remind myself that I can

resist what does feel like " the pull of the Middle Ages " ...so not a pointless

post,a prominent psychohistorian (deMause) has noted the same connection with

how parenting styles create our views,even when they are involuntary and

bizarrely out of place for our own moment in historical time--our nadas are

medieval!!!...

>

> I accidentally hit send by hitting enter, I think, on that one line post.

Last time I tried to delete a post, it showed up in the Daily Digest anyway.

Has this happened to anyone else?

>

> So, here's the point of why I bring this up, I had a quick, involuntary

thought of, " It's a sign; I shouldn't write the rest of the post. " This type of

superstitious thinking has invaded my life for years from nada. I don't even

believe in that crap. I feel like one of those people from the middle ages who

lived under the fear of all kinds of superstitions. It is tiring to fend this

off in myself.

> p.s. Some smart*ss on here is thinking, " Yeah, that superstition was right;

this is a pointless post. " ha ha

[Guest guest]

Lol! I like that, " our nadas are medieval! " I buy it!

I believe I've read one of DeMausse's books (or something similar) about " The

History of Childhood " and it is amazing that our current views of childhood and

child-rearing are so radically different than in earlier times, and the views

change! They never seems to be static! Such as in the time of Dickens,

working class children were expected to contribute to the family income or

household upkeep in some way. Farm children were farm-hands or went to work in

factories. Education beyond a little reading, writing and arithmetic was for the

rich and privileged, only. So, children were more of a resource to be exploited

for a family, in a way.

I am slightly superstition myself: I get all excited when I find a coin on the

street someone has dropped. I take it as a sign that I will always be able to

find money, and I think of it as my " lucky penny " or quarter or whatever. I

realize its silly, but I think its harmless. When things seem to be going

wrong, and I encounter rude people or weird reactions, I attribute it to " sun

spots. "

I guess that just makes us human, having little foibles and weaknesses. I like

it that we don't have to be " perfect " , like nada expects, anymore.

-Annie

>

> Ha ha ha,lol,Coal Miner's Daughter,I suffer from " involuntary superstitious

thinking " at times,too.

>

> It usually happens when I am trying to do something and hit some sort of

snafu---then I catch myself automatically assuming " It's a sign I shouldn't try

to do this,it's going to turn out wrong/bad " .Or once in a while in the morning

before work if I go to get a coffee at the local coffee shop and encounter

somebody else in a pissy or pushy mood,then I catch myself thinking: " Aw

shit,this is going to be a lousy day,it's a sign... " I always tell myself to

stop it because I know rationally that *my own attitude* determines the outcome

of events for the most part and I also resent even having these passing

" superstitious thoughts " because they aren't me.I know that as a child I had to

engage in " magical thinking " alot in the hope of being able to have things be ok

and that got tacked on to reflexive self blame when I got hurt.So some of it is

an old unconscious habit even though I don't " believe " in it.

>

> I thought it was interesting that you said you feel like one of those

people from the middle ages because I found this website (Lloyd deMause) that

had a graph on it of how different parenting styles relate to different

historical periods--the average nada parenting style with all the

splitting,projection,blame and enmeshment related most to the Medieval

Period.Our nadas " raise " us the way people treated children back in the Middle

Ages...I wanted to post that graph on here but when I went back to that website

I couldn't find it.

>

> I fend it off,myself,by reminding myself that I *do* have free will and

that dread is just a feeling,not a fact.It only becomes a " fact " if we allow it

to determine our decisions.And I do,at times,even remind myself that I can

resist what does feel like " the pull of the Middle Ages " ...so not a pointless

post,a prominent psychohistorian (deMause) has noted the same connection with

how parenting styles create our views,even when they are involuntary and

bizarrely out of place for our own moment in historical time--our nadas are

medieval!!!...

>

>