Nada Passed Away

[Guest guest]

I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

Thanks for listening, everybody.

[Guest guest]

You say, " My ex-family has never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely

manner. " This rang very familiar to me -- it's a puzzling dynamic.

First off, let me say I'm with you in that weird spin of emotions surrounding

KOs after the death of a parent.

Then, there's this:

My maternal grandfather lived in our home for all of my high school years and

half of my college years. It was a rather horrible experience -- not his fault,

but he had senile dementia and smoked cigars. My BPD mother unreasonably blamed

herself for her own BPD mother's death, which left my grandfather with nowhere

to live -- or so Mom thought -- except with us. The idea of hiring help or

moving him into a nursing home were out of the question, not so much because she

adored him so much, but because Mom felt obligated to punish herself as much as

possible. Long story short, his presence in our house made my teenage years much

more hellish than they would have been if he hadn't been there. He was a key

part of my life. He died after a short illness while I was away at school.

My parents told me about his death THREE WEEKS after it happened. They had never

mentioned his illness. I spoke to Mom several times after his death, from my

dorm room, and she NEVER MENTIONED that Papa was dead. She waited three weeks to

tell me. Why??? They had a funeral. My other relatives went. I could have easily

hopped on a bus and attended it. But no. I will never understand this and she

never explained it. " We just didn't think it was the right time to tell you

yet. "

Eight years later, although some might say this was more insignificant because

it involves an animal's death not a human's death, they hid from me the fact

that my dog had died. I lived in a different city then, and only went " home "

once or twice a year, but I talked to my parents on the phone at least once a

week. My dog died, the dog I had raised from a puppy, my only-ever dog. It was

months before they told me. Again, why?????

My mother said vaguely, " We thought you wouldn't be able to handle it. "

What? I was 26 years old.

I felt ripped off somehow -- that for some reason I was being kept out of the

circle when important life-cycle events came down. I still don't know why. And

over twenty years later, I still feel angry helpless confused struggling mind

racing to second-guess what " motivated " these decisions. Was I so insignificant

that I wasn't worth telling? Or was I considered so infantile that they thought

I really couldn't handle it? Or, as you suggest re: your own case, was it simply

a way for them to control things?

Ha ha, we knew and you didn't. What a fool you looked like -- a selfish careless

fool, living your life, having fun miles away while PAPA (or Doggy) was DEAD.

[Guest guest]

Please accept my sympathies and deepest condolences.

No matter who she was to you, you deserve comfort and care during this time.

When one's mother dies, it is neither easy nor straightforward And that's true

regardless of how poorly she did her maternal job.

So sorry you had to go through this--and I mean all of it.

Blessings,

Karla

>

> I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

>

> Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

>

> Thanks for listening, everybody.

>

[Guest guest]

How odd.

This must also be part of the dynamic.

My NADA would not tell me when family members had died.

My father didn't tell me that his father had died until christmas day (2 months

later) when I asked how my grandfather was, he said " 6 feet under " .

I fully expect the same to happen to one or both of my bio-weirdo-parents. From

my fathers side, I'll get notice from the lawyers, maybe. Although I'm likely

cut out of any will that they have. My mother, who knows.

>

> I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

>

> Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

>

> Thanks for listening, everybody.

>

[Guest guest]

I also wish you peace and healing. Its hard to have a parent pass away, even

when they've been abusive and toxic. My condolences

to you in your loss.

-Annie

> >

> > I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

> >

> > Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental

units would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

> >

> > Thanks for listening, everybody.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry for your pain...and loss...not of your Nada, but of the whole

experience with her.

(((((hugs)))))). We are here for you.

Amy

Nada Passed Away

I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

Thanks for listening, everybody.

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry for all the loss you have experienced.

Sending you ((((HUGS)))) and sympathy,

>

> I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

>

> Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

>

> Thanks for listening, everybody.

>

[Guest guest]

My FOO also did things like this.

When my fada was told that his condition was terminal and he would die

within the next couple of weeks,nobody told me.

I was busy with a complicated project at work at the time and since the

last thing fada had said to me was that he was going into rehab and things were

looking up and that he didn't need me to visit every day,when the doctors told

him he was going to die and I never showed up at the hospital,it looked like

" all cares about is herself " ...since everyone else just assumed that

fada must have told me,which he never did.He was,in fact,playing the same sick

martyr game he always had: being my " victim " .

The rest of the FOO didn't bother to call me because,I think,*they* were

enjoying having that " delicious manipulation and control " .Weird how they wanted

to villainize me as this horrible person who didn't " deserve " to be kept in the

loop,yet they also knew that not telling me was a sort of punishment because I'd

feel really awful after I found out that my own father was suffering with this

terminal diagnosis while I ( selfishly) occupied myself with my work

project.It's really really sick--if I'm such a horrible unfeeling uncaring

person,then how do you know that I'd feel bad for not being there for my father

when he needed me? If I really was such a villain,I wouldn't care anyway,now

would I? I was actually just the designated " punishee " .To coin a phrase.

I found out he was dying from a nurse a few days later.When I asked fada

why he hadn't told me (I knew the rest of the FOO hadn't told me to " punish "

me,a recurring theme from since I was little,this being " punished " ),fada

said, " That's just the way it is. "

Huh?? Like when you asked your own nada for an explanation and she said

something vague and sort of pointless.But isn't that what happens in general

when you try to get some comprehensible explanation from a BP that would help

you to understand,they just peddle so much BS?

When my maternal grandmother died,years before this crap with fada,nobody

told me she had been removed from life support.The last thing nada had told me

was that the family wasn't ready yet to do that and at any rate it would take

some time to have that arranged with the hospital and she couldn't handle it.I

was living abroad at the time and offered to contact the hospital ethics board

for her so that the option to discontinue life support would be there when or if

she decided to pursue that.She told me to go ahead and do that,so I was making

these long distance telephone calls--while at the same time she had gone ahead

and given her permission to have her mother taken off the life support but

didn't tell me.Like a fool,I was calling the hospital and leaving messages to be

called back collect--then one day nada told me oh,by the way,your grandmother

died last night.She had been off of the life support for the past two days,but

nobody told me.I then had to scramble to make travel arrangements so I could get

there in time for the funeral.

I definitely got that " ha ha I knew and you didn't " feeling from nada that

time.And from fada when he was dying.

I wish that I had gone completely NC from all of them long before I

actually did.I have no intention now of altering my NC but I know that when nada

dies I will be purposefully kept uninformed as punishment.Well,they did that

with fada when I *was* there and *did* want to be involved,so screw them,I can't

win.

You know how KOs often (reasonably) don't want nadas around for events

such as births or weddings because they know nada will be a problem/create

difficulties/act out? It seems to me that nadas,for example,don't want to

involve us in what you called " important life cycle events " like deaths because

they *need* to perceive us as a potential problem.Our not wanting to involve

them in *our* important life cycle events is based on a reasonable prediction

from their past behavior that they will cause some problems for us by their

participation,but when they exclude us from events like deaths in the family (or

deaths of pets),their " reasoning " is based on *their* dysfunctional need to see

us as " less than " they are: less competent,less caring,less rational.They

project their own weaknesses onto us.

" We thought you wouldn't be able to handle it "

BS!!!!! When I asked nada why in the world she hadn't told me she had

already made arrangements to have my grandmother removed from life support,she

said practically the same thing: " Oh,I thought you'd be too upset " --when I had

been calling the hospital myself precisely because *she had told me she couldn't

handle it*.

And it *is* a power and control thing,too,because I think that in my case

at least what nada didn't want was for me to have any agency to direct the

course of events,such as *me* calling *her* to say: Ok,I've made an appointment

for us to meet with the ethics board next week to discuss possibly having

grandma removed from life support so I'm going to book a flight for

Monday...when it came down to it,Ms Nada Helpless still had to be the one

calling all the shots.

I think that they want us to feel insignificant so they can feel

competent.They want us to feel infantile or selfish or clueless (and to *regret*

it) so they can feel adult caring and in control.When a serious life event like

a death happens,they manipulate us into asking ourselves the questions they

really should be asking themselves but refuse to,such as: Am I really so

infantile? So selfish? So foolish? We get to experience,for them so they won't

have to,exactly how it feels to not know what the hell is really going on.They

project their own issues onto us,yet again,and give them to us to own for them.

*They* are the selfish careless fools.

>

> You say, " My ex-family has never informed me of deaths in the family in a

timely manner. " This rang very familiar to me -- it's a puzzling dynamic.

>

> First off, let me say I'm with you in that weird spin of emotions surrounding

KOs after the death of a parent.

>

> Then, there's this:

>

> My maternal grandfather lived in our home for all of my high school years and

half of my college years. It was a rather horrible experience -- not his fault,

but he had senile dementia and smoked cigars. My BPD mother unreasonably blamed

herself for her own BPD mother's death, which left my grandfather with nowhere

to live -- or so Mom thought -- except with us. The idea of hiring help or

moving him into a nursing home were out of the question, not so much because she

adored him so much, but because Mom felt obligated to punish herself as much as

possible. Long story short, his presence in our house made my teenage years much

more hellish than they would have been if he hadn't been there. He was a key

part of my life. He died after a short illness while I was away at school.

>

> My parents told me about his death THREE WEEKS after it happened. They had

never mentioned his illness. I spoke to Mom several times after his death, from

my dorm room, and she NEVER MENTIONED that Papa was dead. She waited three weeks

to tell me. Why??? They had a funeral. My other relatives went. I could have

easily hopped on a bus and attended it. But no. I will never understand this and

she never explained it. " We just didn't think it was the right time to tell you

yet. "

>

> Eight years later, although some might say this was more insignificant because

it involves an animal's death not a human's death, they hid from me the fact

that my dog had died. I lived in a different city then, and only went " home "

once or twice a year, but I talked to my parents on the phone at least once a

week. My dog died, the dog I had raised from a puppy, my only-ever dog. It was

months before they told me. Again, why?????

>

> My mother said vaguely, " We thought you wouldn't be able to handle it. "

>

> What? I was 26 years old.

>

> I felt ripped off somehow -- that for some reason I was being kept out of the

circle when important life-cycle events came down. I still don't know why. And

over twenty years later, I still feel angry helpless confused struggling mind

racing to second-guess what " motivated " these decisions. Was I so insignificant

that I wasn't worth telling? Or was I considered so infantile that they thought

I really couldn't handle it? Or, as you suggest re: your own case, was it simply

a way for them to control things?

>

> Ha ha, we knew and you didn't. What a fool you looked like -- a selfish

careless fool, living your life, having fun miles away while PAPA (or Doggy) was

DEAD.

>

[Guest guest]

Here's a theory: most people do things because they perceive a benefit for

themself; some kind of benefit.

If they can keep us ignorant of their impending death, nada and/or fada gets

some benefits.

(A) The uninformed adult child looks like an uncaring bitch or s.o.b. to the

rest of the family resulting in the dying nada or fada getting to look like a

martyr/victim and gaining even more sympathy.

( Nada or fada wants to avoid even the possibility that we might confront them

with all the trauma they've done to us and the damage they inflicted: he or she

wants to exit this life preserving their illusion of perfection.

© They get to have that one last " gotcha! " at our expense.

-Annie

>

> My FOO also did things like this.

>

> When my fada was told that his condition was terminal and he would die

within the next couple of weeks,nobody told me.

>

> I was busy with a complicated project at work at the time and since the

last thing fada had said to me was that he was going into rehab and things were

looking up and that he didn't need me to visit every day,when the doctors told

him he was going to die and I never showed up at the hospital,it looked like

" all cares about is herself " ...since everyone else just assumed that

fada must have told me,which he never did.He was,in fact,playing the same sick

martyr game he always had: being my " victim " .

>

> The rest of the FOO didn't bother to call me because,I think,*they* were

enjoying having that " delicious manipulation and control " .Weird how they wanted

to villainize me as this horrible person who didn't " deserve " to be kept in the

loop,yet they also knew that not telling me was a sort of punishment because I'd

feel really awful after I found out that my own father was suffering with this

terminal diagnosis while I ( selfishly) occupied myself with my work

project.It's really really sick--if I'm such a horrible unfeeling uncaring

person,then how do you know that I'd feel bad for not being there for my father

when he needed me? If I really was such a villain,I wouldn't care anyway,now

would I? I was actually just the designated " punishee " .To coin a phrase.

>

> I found out he was dying from a nurse a few days later.When I asked fada

why he hadn't told me (I knew the rest of the FOO hadn't told me to " punish "

me,a recurring theme from since I was little,this being " punished " ),fada

said, " That's just the way it is. "

>

> Huh?? Like when you asked your own nada for an explanation and she said

something vague and sort of pointless.But isn't that what happens in general

when you try to get some comprehensible explanation from a BP that would help

you to understand,they just peddle so much BS?

>

> When my maternal grandmother died,years before this crap with

fada,nobody told me she had been removed from life support.The last thing nada

had told me was that the family wasn't ready yet to do that and at any rate it

would take some time to have that arranged with the hospital and she couldn't

handle it.I was living abroad at the time and offered to contact the hospital

ethics board for her so that the option to discontinue life support would be

there when or if she decided to pursue that.She told me to go ahead and do

that,so I was making these long distance telephone calls--while at the same time

she had gone ahead and given her permission to have her mother taken off the

life support but didn't tell me.Like a fool,I was calling the hospital and

leaving messages to be called back collect--then one day nada told me oh,by the

way,your grandmother died last night.She had been off of the life support for

the past two days,but nobody told me.I then had to scramble to make travel

arrangements so I could get there in time for the funeral.

>

> I definitely got that " ha ha I knew and you didn't " feeling from nada

that time.And from fada when he was dying.

>

> I wish that I had gone completely NC from all of them long before I

actually did.I have no intention now of altering my NC but I know that when nada

dies I will be purposefully kept uninformed as punishment.Well,they did that

with fada when I *was* there and *did* want to be involved,so screw them,I can't

win.

>

> You know how KOs often (reasonably) don't want nadas around for events

such as births or weddings because they know nada will be a problem/create

difficulties/act out? It seems to me that nadas,for example,don't want to

involve us in what you called " important life cycle events " like deaths because

they *need* to perceive us as a potential problem.Our not wanting to involve

them in *our* important life cycle events is based on a reasonable prediction

from their past behavior that they will cause some problems for us by their

participation,but when they exclude us from events like deaths in the family (or

deaths of pets),their " reasoning " is based on *their* dysfunctional need to see

us as " less than " they are: less competent,less caring,less rational.They

project their own weaknesses onto us.

>

> " We thought you wouldn't be able to handle it "

>

> BS!!!!! When I asked nada why in the world she hadn't told me she had

already made arrangements to have my grandmother removed from life support,she

said practically the same thing: " Oh,I thought you'd be too upset " --when I had

been calling the hospital myself precisely because *she had told me she couldn't

handle it*.

>

> And it *is* a power and control thing,too,because I think that in my case

at least what nada didn't want was for me to have any agency to direct the

course of events,such as *me* calling *her* to say: Ok,I've made an appointment

for us to meet with the ethics board next week to discuss possibly having

grandma removed from life support so I'm going to book a flight for

Monday...when it came down to it,Ms Nada Helpless still had to be the one

calling all the shots.

>

> I think that they want us to feel insignificant so they can feel

competent.They want us to feel infantile or selfish or clueless (and to *regret*

it) so they can feel adult caring and in control.When a serious life event like

a death happens,they manipulate us into asking ourselves the questions they

really should be asking themselves but refuse to,such as: Am I really so

infantile? So selfish? So foolish? We get to experience,for them so they won't

have to,exactly how it feels to not know what the hell is really going on.They

project their own issues onto us,yet again,and give them to us to own for them.

>

> *They* are the selfish careless fools.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Guys and gals, thank you so much for your kind words and support. In a " spin " as

I wrote my post, I said " Nada " when I should have said " Fada. " But it made no

difference to your responses--they were all spot on. Reading about others'

similar experiences with being shut out of " normal lifecycle events " made me

think that perhaps a Borderline would feel cheated by death because it's the one

thing they can't control. But what they can control is passing the information

along. Information is power, right?

All my life, even as a child, I knew it was all leading to this--that Nada and

Fada would die without me being there and never " get " why I wasn't present. Did

Fada wonder why? I really don't think so. Someone so incapable of intimacy and

honesty doesn't get it, even on their deathbed. " They " say that after death

people finally understand everything. I keep " feeling " for a connection--like

he's out there, perhaps trying to get a message through. But all I feel is the

same way he always was--shrugging off the truth, evading a real exchange. My

aunt, who was a normal woman, died in 2009, and I can " feel " her thoughts and

things that I think she wants to communicate. But Fada's just dodging and

feinting, as always.

I guess I can and should say a couple of kind words: Fada was a handsome, well

dressed man, well spoken with a humble attitude in public. He was incapable of

honesty and even though I tried with all my might to show him that I accepted

him as he was, if he could just drop the " act " and be real, I could love him " as

is, " he never dropped the mask.

Yes, I have a mask, like we all wear with acquaintances and strangers, but I

also have close friends who know everything about me, good and bad, and accept

me for who I am. For me, that's the definition of " family, " biological or not.

On the one hand, this news makes me feel very sad, like a big chunk of life that

normal people hold precious, has been a spoiled waste. Of course that's not a

new feeling. On the other hand, I feel liberated, like the sick dynamic of Nada

and Fada's parenting has finally been broken. Like the impenetrable Berlin Wall,

it's finally come down.

AFB

> >

> > You say, " My ex-family has never informed me of deaths in the family in a

timely manner. " This rang very familiar to me -- it's a puzzling dynamic.

> >

> > First off, let me say I'm with you in that weird spin of emotions

surrounding KOs after the death of a parent.

> >

> > Then, there's this:

> >

> > My maternal grandfather lived in our home for all of my high school years

and half of my college years. It was a rather horrible experience -- not his

fault, but he had senile dementia and smoked cigars. My BPD mother unreasonably

blamed herself for her own BPD mother's death, which left my grandfather with

nowhere to live -- or so Mom thought -- except with us. The idea of hiring help

or moving him into a nursing home were out of the question, not so much because

she adored him so much, but because Mom felt obligated to punish herself as much

as possible. Long story short, his presence in our house made my teenage years

much more hellish than they would have been if he hadn't been there. He was a

key part of my life. He died after a short illness while I was away at school.

> >

> > My parents told me about his death THREE WEEKS after it happened. They had

never mentioned his illness. I spoke to Mom several times after his death, from

my dorm room, and she NEVER MENTIONED that Papa was dead. She waited three weeks

to tell me. Why??? They had a funeral. My other relatives went. I could have

easily hopped on a bus and attended it. But no. I will never understand this and

she never explained it. " We just didn't think it was the right time to tell you

yet. "

> >

> > Eight years later, although some might say this was more insignificant

because it involves an animal's death not a human's death, they hid from me the

fact that my dog had died. I lived in a different city then, and only went

" home " once or twice a year, but I talked to my parents on the phone at least

once a week. My dog died, the dog I had raised from a puppy, my only-ever dog.

It was months before they told me. Again, why?????

> >

> > My mother said vaguely, " We thought you wouldn't be able to handle it. "

> >

> > What? I was 26 years old.

> >

> > I felt ripped off somehow -- that for some reason I was being kept out of

the circle when important life-cycle events came down. I still don't know why.

And over twenty years later, I still feel angry helpless confused struggling

mind racing to second-guess what " motivated " these decisions. Was I so

insignificant that I wasn't worth telling? Or was I considered so infantile that

they thought I really couldn't handle it? Or, as you suggest re: your own case,

was it simply a way for them to control things?

> >

> > Ha ha, we knew and you didn't. What a fool you looked like -- a selfish

careless fool, living your life, having fun miles away while PAPA (or Doggy) was

DEAD.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

AFB, just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss too that of what was there and

that of what could never be. I've often thought of what I'll feel when either

of my disordered parents die and I think it'll be grief for what could never be

most of all. Talking about " feeling " spirits I consulted a psychic a little

bit ago and found out a relative that I thought didn't care that much actually

did and had been hanging around trying to help from the sidelines. But the

relative I had contacted her to know about my grandmother (who was a nada to my

nada) she said still had work/learning to do and it wasn't time yet to

communicate with her other than to let me know she was okay and out of pain. I

had hoped that when my grandmother died and could " see " what was happening from

the spiritual perspective that I'd finally get the validation I had

wanted...guess not. I hope some of that's helpful - just imagine your fada

having to do lots of learning " over there " before he's safe to commune with!

>

>

>

> Guys and gals, thank you so much for your kind words and support. In a " spin "

as I wrote my post, I said " Nada " when I should have said " Fada. " But it made no

difference to your responses--they were all spot on. Reading about others'

similar experiences with being shut out of " normal lifecycle events " made me

think that perhaps a Borderline would feel cheated by death because it's the one

thing they can't control. But what they can control is passing the information

along. Information is power, right?

>

> All my life, even as a child, I knew it was all leading to this--that Nada and

Fada would die without me being there and never " get " why I wasn't present. Did

Fada wonder why? I really don't think so. Someone so incapable of intimacy and

honesty doesn't get it, even on their deathbed. " They " say that after death

people finally understand everything. I keep " feeling " for a connection--like

he's out there, perhaps trying to get a message through. But all I feel is the

same way he always was--shrugging off the truth, evading a real exchange. My

aunt, who was a normal woman, died in 2009, and I can " feel " her thoughts and

things that I think she wants to communicate. But Fada's just dodging and

feinting, as always.

>

> I guess I can and should say a couple of kind words: Fada was a handsome, well

dressed man, well spoken with a humble attitude in public. He was incapable of

honesty and even though I tried with all my might to show him that I accepted

him as he was, if he could just drop the " act " and be real, I could love him " as

is, " he never dropped the mask.

>

> Yes, I have a mask, like we all wear with acquaintances and strangers, but I

also have close friends who know everything about me, good and bad, and accept

me for who I am. For me, that's the definition of " family, " biological or not.

>

> On the one hand, this news makes me feel very sad, like a big chunk of life

that normal people hold precious, has been a spoiled waste. Of course that's not

a new feeling. On the other hand, I feel liberated, like the sick dynamic of

Nada and Fada's parenting has finally been broken. Like the impenetrable Berlin

Wall, it's finally come down.

> AFB

>

[Guest guest]

I wish I had something useful to say, but I do want to add my sincere

condolences and support! I'm very sorry about your father.

> >

> >

> >

> > Guys and gals, thank you so much for your kind words and support. In a

" spin " as I wrote my post, I said " Nada " when I should have said " Fada. " But it

made no difference to your responses--they were all spot on. Reading about

others' similar experiences with being shut out of " normal lifecycle events "

made me think that perhaps a Borderline would feel cheated by death because it's

the one thing they can't control. But what they can control is passing the

information along. Information is power, right?

> >

> > All my life, even as a child, I knew it was all leading to this--that Nada

and Fada would die without me being there and never " get " why I wasn't present.

Did Fada wonder why? I really don't think so. Someone so incapable of intimacy

and honesty doesn't get it, even on their deathbed. " They " say that after death

people finally understand everything. I keep " feeling " for a connection--like

he's out there, perhaps trying to get a message through. But all I feel is the

same way he always was--shrugging off the truth, evading a real exchange. My

aunt, who was a normal woman, died in 2009, and I can " feel " her thoughts and

things that I think she wants to communicate. But Fada's just dodging and

feinting, as always.

> >

> > I guess I can and should say a couple of kind words: Fada was a handsome,

well dressed man, well spoken with a humble attitude in public. He was incapable

of honesty and even though I tried with all my might to show him that I accepted

him as he was, if he could just drop the " act " and be real, I could love him " as

is, " he never dropped the mask.

> >

> > Yes, I have a mask, like we all wear with acquaintances and strangers, but I

also have close friends who know everything about me, good and bad, and accept

me for who I am. For me, that's the definition of " family, " biological or not.

> >

> > On the one hand, this news makes me feel very sad, like a big chunk of life

that normal people hold precious, has been a spoiled waste. Of course that's not

a new feeling. On the other hand, I feel liberated, like the sick dynamic of

Nada and Fada's parenting has finally been broken. Like the impenetrable Berlin

Wall, it's finally come down.

> > AFB

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Awayfromborderland, you said (heartbreakingly articulately): " 'They' say that

after death people finally understand everything. I keep " feeling " for a

connection--like he's out there, perhaps trying to get a message through. But

all I feel is the same way he always was--shrugging off the truth, evading a

real exchange. "

A friend of mine is really into visiting psychics to " hear from " her beloved

dead relatives. She says these relatives told her the afterlife is pleasant and

happy and serene -- so I asked her, " Do dead people who were NOT nice when they

were alive become nice in spirit form? What about rapists and murderers? " She

didn't know, and was kind of shocked at my question.

Regarding the " afterlife " -- I once spoke with a man who was an expert in

" near-death experiences. " He studied them. That was his thing. He said that a

key feature of NDE's (as he called them) is that in those first few seconds

after death, the person suddenly sees a super fast-motion film of his or her

whole life, and suddenly " gets " exactly what he or she did wrong and did right.

So -- the theory goes -- that in the afterlife, souls are all reformed and in

recovery, because they saw how their actions while alive had affected others.

Not saying I believe all this, just reporting what this guy told me. He said it

was based on tens of thousands of NDE stories -- and of course, the point of an

NDE is that the person has " come back to life. " This guy said people who survive

NDEs return to life with a deep knowledge about themselves that makes them shed

their bad ways.

[Guest guest]

Awayfromborderland, you said (heartbreakingly articulately): " 'They' say that

after death people finally understand everything. I keep " feeling " for a

connection--like he's out there, perhaps trying to get a message through. But

all I feel is the same way he always was--shrugging off the truth, evading a

real exchange. "

A friend of mine is really into visiting psychics to " hear from " her beloved

dead relatives. She says these relatives told her the afterlife is pleasant and

happy and serene -- so I asked her, " Do dead people who were NOT nice when they

were alive become nice in spirit form? What about rapists and murderers? " She

didn't know, and was kind of shocked at my question.

Regarding the " afterlife " -- I once spoke with a man who was an expert in

" near-death experiences. " He studied them. That was his thing. He said that a

key feature of NDE's (as he called them) is that in those first few seconds

after death, the person suddenly sees a super fast-motion film of his or her

whole life, and suddenly " gets " exactly what he or she did wrong and did right.

So -- the theory goes -- that in the afterlife, souls are all reformed and in

recovery, because they saw how their actions while alive had affected others.

Not saying I believe all this, just reporting what this guy told me. He said it

was based on tens of thousands of NDE stories -- and of course, the point of an

NDE is that the person has " come back to life. " This guy said people who survive

NDEs return to life with a deep knowledge about themselves that makes them shed

their bad ways.

[Guest guest]

I'm sending you hugs and comfort. It's a confusing mess that only stirs anger

and resentment, even from the grave. The flying monkeys made sure to get that

last stab in. Idiots. It may take awhile to sink in but you're finally free to

be you. Now it's time for you to dream of only good things, stretching your

wings and flying free.

>

> I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

>

> Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

>

> Thanks for listening, everybody.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sending you hugs and comfort. It's a confusing mess that only stirs anger

and resentment, even from the grave. The flying monkeys made sure to get that

last stab in. Idiots. It may take awhile to sink in but you're finally free to

be you. Now it's time for you to dream of only good things, stretching your

wings and flying free.

>

> I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

>

> Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

>

> Thanks for listening, everybody.

>

[Guest guest]

It's so great to hear from everyone. Thanks all. I really haven't discussed this

outside this group because it's so hard for " normal " friends to understand how

difficult a BPD/NPD relationship is, and that a child can't mourn a BPD parent

in the conventional way. So I'm getting my therapy and I guess even my mourning

in, on this email list.

There has been some very honest and frank talk here about afterlife, and I do

believe in an afterlife. I feel like angels are walking Fada through the past,

showing him events and he's going, " What? I never knew that. I just had no

idea. " And they're saying, " That's the point. You never made it your business to

know anything. You walked around in a haze of denial and now that's over. Now

it's time to see things in 3-D clarity. " And he's just walking around in circles

because clarity and truth are such a shock after a whole life of avoidance.

It's actually helping me a lot to see it this way, even if it sounds strange. I

wish I could know why this small percentage of us are parented by Borderlines

and have such difficult formative years compared to others. I look forward to

getting the answer when I finally cross over, myself. I promised myself 3 days

to process Fada's death. Tomorrow is the 3rd day. I didn't work today at all. I

just stayed quiet and watched a movie this afternoon, which happened to be " The

Negotiator " about an LAPD hostage negotiator, and a lot of the movie was

watching people bluff and trying to figure out if they were lying or not. Which

fit in to my mourning of Fada, in an ironic way. The lies, the twists, the

blockade from reality--what a way to spend a life.

I guess what Im doing now is applying this to how I live my life now, and

investigting if I've let any fleas affect the way I live here and now. I guess

that's what they call making lemonade when life hands you lemons. It's the best

use of my mourning time. If anybody has experience with this, I'd love to hear.

Take care everybody. Happy Hannukah to those who are commemorating the holiday.

AFB

> >

> > I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

> >

> > Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental

units would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

> >

> > Thanks for listening, everybody.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Awayfromborderland, you wrote: " I guess what Im doing now is applying this to

how I live my life now, and investigting if I've let any fleas affect the way I

live here and now. I guess that's what they call making lemonade when life hands

you lemons. It's the best use of my mourning time. If anybody has experience

with this, I'd love to hear. "

I think this is a wise, courageous choice. It's hard, because the outside world

has expectations about how we're " supposed " to mourn -- how we're supposed to

act and even feel after the death of a relative. But those of us who had (have)

issues with the person who died cannot follow that script. In my case, trying to

explain to others how I felt was disastrous. They were horrified that I was

speaking " ill of the dead. " This still happens, years later. So my advice in

this regard would be to feel your feelings, make the lemonade, but be cautious

about whom you tell -- because society is hooked on its " scripts, " and it's

exhausting to have to keep defending your viewpoints.

Other cultures such as the Zoroastrians believe that the first three days after

a death (in your case, the first few days after hearing of a death) are a

magical and profound time in which the dead person's spirit is still hovering

close to earth.

I was unnecessarily hesitant about admitting this in an earlier post, but I do

believe in the afterlife, and agree with your scenario: that after they die,

people are shown things about themselves that open their eyes. At that point,

it's too late for them to fix whatever damage they did to others, but I guess

it's good in the eternal-soul department.

Those first three days are a once-in-a-lifetime transition time when our hearts

and souls are in a special place, partly the present and partly the past, partly

in ordinary reality and partly in an alternate reality. I think we have access,

during this time, to tools that we otherwise can't use or even see. " Making

lemonade " with them is a brilliant idea. I commend your courage!

[Guest guest]

Hi Anneli, thank you for your post. I really got a lot out of it.

I just felt like speaking a little more frankly about this afterlife business

here within the WTO group because honesty and candor with a civilized tone is a

big part of the group healing. Normally, I would be speaking about these things

within my family, who also shared the mourning, but as a KO, I don't have that

" normal birthright. " So here is the next best place for it, and I'm very

grateful.

I loved what you said about " society is hooked on its scripts. " It was such a

hard lesson to leam--that my family experience was radically different than most

and although " normies " wanted to listen and understand, it was just impossible

for them. It's such a gift to have somewhere like here to go and not only get to

speak the truth, but be listened too as well.

I went for a long walk in a beautiful area this morning, and as I came down a

hill, I felt something in my chest lighten up. I felt more free and lighter than

I had in years. I imagined that Fada had finally " got " why I behaved the way I

did, and he lifted his heavy disapproval off of me. Heck, I felt it go, whatever

the real reason " why. " It lifted.

Buddhists believe that the soul hovers for three days, too. It's an old and

widely held concept, I guess. In terms of " my " three days, I'm meditating on the

way I live now and what I want to change. I know the situation I'm in right now,

and have been in for the last five years, is temporary and coming to a end.

Fada's passing is very significant, because I've lived a life of secrecy and

hiding to a certain extent, because I'm NC. Even though there are 3 people

involved, Nada, Fada and Brudda (brother, a Flying Monkey) the dynamic of the

family relationship has been altered. I said in a previous post that the three

of them together felt like the Berlin Wall. But it has fallen now, without Fada

to support it any longer. So a significant part of the reason for why my life

has the shape that it has now, is also fallen. I have to change too.

When the shape of something pressing in on you changes, your shape changes as

well. I've been waiting for this day a long time. That's something that wouldn't

be safe to say in too many places outside of the WTO. I always knew that death

was going to set me free. Talk about the insideout, upsidedown experience of a

KO, this is it.

Thanks for listening

AFB

" I guess what Im doing now is applying this to

how I live my life now, and investigting if I've let any fleas affect the way I

live here and now. I guess that's what they call making lemonade when life hands

you lemons. It's the best use of my mourning time. If anybody has experience

with this, I'd love to hear. "

>

> I think this is a wise, courageous choice. It's hard, because the outside

world has expectations about how we're " supposed " to mourn -- how we're supposed

to act and even feel after the death of a relative. But those of us who had

(have) issues with the person who died cannot follow that script. In my case,

trying to explain to others how I felt was disastrous. They were horrified that

I was speaking " ill of the dead. " This still happens, years later. So my advice

in this regard would be to feel your feelings, make the lemonade, but be

cautious about whom you tell -- because society is hooked on its " scripts, " and

it's exhausting to have to keep defending your viewpoints.

>

> Other cultures such as the Zoroastrians believe that the first three days

after a death (in your case, the first few days after hearing of a death) are a

magical and profound time in which the dead person's spirit is still hovering

close to earth.

>

> I was unnecessarily hesitant about admitting this in an earlier post, but I do

believe in the afterlife, and agree with your scenario: that after they die,

people are shown things about themselves that open their eyes. At that point,

it's too late for them to fix whatever damage they did to others, but I guess

it's good in the eternal-soul department.

>

> Those first three days are a once-in-a-lifetime transition time when our

hearts and souls are in a special place, partly the present and partly the past,

partly in ordinary reality and partly in an alternate reality. I think we have

access, during this time, to tools that we otherwise can't use or even see.

" Making lemonade " with them is a brilliant idea. I commend your courage!

>

[Guest guest]

AFB,

I have lived with the anticipation of either total dread or totally freeing when

i think of my parents not being here anymore.

I now am starting to understand what it might be like. After a life of trauma

around every corner, a life of internal soul-twisting and unexplained

misunderstandings, I'm wondering if it might feel like a relief from my

tormentors.

It's hard to love someone, and want to love them -- and have them poison you at

the same time.

Everyone says that life seems short, but not to KO's.

Life has dragged on..just tonight, I saw the most beautiful sunset...something

that usually lifts my spirits...but when I feel dragged down by the confusion I

feel, and the fear that any of my reactions might in some way resemble

hers...even though I know we aren't wired the same way...I feel that life is

very long and stressful. The beautiful sunset didn't lift my mood. I try my

hardest all the time...I don't want to try so hard. I want to relax and be with

my family and feel light.

My whole life, I've been threatened with her death...and I've always feared it.

But, what might happen is what you are describing. Freedom? Relief? An end of an

era?

And it's impossible to explain to other people. We risk the looks on peoples'

faces that WE might be the crazy ones. But we have our reasons why we react this

way.

Even in our grief, we aren't acting " right. " But it makes perfect bizzarro world

sense.

Everything is backwards, unrecognizable.

But to us, it's our script, our natural progression of survival and beyond.

Life may become brand new and we will have to learn how to be reborn into a

whole different world.

It's frightening and freeing all at once.

Amy

Re: Nada Passed Away

Hi Anneli, thank you for your post. I really got a lot out of it.

I just felt like speaking a little more frankly about this afterlife business

here within the WTO group because honesty and candor with a civilized tone is a

big part of the group healing. Normally, I would be speaking about these things

within my family, who also shared the mourning, but as a KO, I don't have that

" normal birthright. " So here is the next best place for it, and I'm very

grateful.

I loved what you said about " society is hooked on its scripts. " It was such a

hard lesson to leam--that my family experience was radically different than most

and although " normies " wanted to listen and understand, it was just impossible

for them. It's such a gift to have somewhere like here to go and not only get to

speak the truth, but be listened too as well.

I went for a long walk in a beautiful area this morning, and as I came down a

hill, I felt something in my chest lighten up. I felt more free and lighter than

I had in years. I imagined that Fada had finally " got " why I behaved the way I

did, and he lifted his heavy disapproval off of me. Heck, I felt it go, whatever

the real reason " why. " It lifted.

Buddhists believe that the soul hovers for three days, too. It's an old and

widely held concept, I guess. In terms of " my " three days, I'm meditating on the

way I live now and what I want to change. I know the situation I'm in right now,

and have been in for the last five years, is temporary and coming to a end.

Fada's passing is very significant, because I've lived a life of secrecy and

hiding to a certain extent, because I'm NC. Even though there are 3 people

involved, Nada, Fada and Brudda (brother, a Flying Monkey) the dynamic of the

family relationship has been altered. I said in a previous post that the three

of them together felt like the Berlin Wall. But it has fallen now, without Fada

to support it any longer. So a significant part of the reason for why my life

has the shape that it has now, is also fallen. I have to change too.

When the shape of something pressing in on you changes, your shape changes as

well. I've been waiting for this day a long time. That's something that wouldn't

be safe to say in too many places outside of the WTO. I always knew that death

was going to set me free. Talk about the insideout, upsidedown experience of a

KO, this is it.

Thanks for listening

AFB

" I guess what Im doing now is applying this to

how I live my life now, and investigting if I've let any fleas affect the way I

live here and now. I guess that's what they call making lemonade when life hands

you lemons. It's the best use of my mourning time. If anybody has experience

with this, I'd love to hear. "

>

> I think this is a wise, courageous choice. It's hard, because the outside

world has expectations about how we're " supposed " to mourn -- how we're supposed

to act and even feel after the death of a relative. But those of us who had

(have) issues with the person who died cannot follow that script. In my case,

trying to explain to others how I felt was disastrous. They were horrified that

I was speaking " ill of the dead. " This still happens, years later. So my advice

in this regard would be to feel your feelings, make the lemonade, but be

cautious about whom you tell -- because society is hooked on its " scripts, " and

it's exhausting to have to keep defending your viewpoints.

>

> Other cultures such as the Zoroastrians believe that the first three days

after a death (in your case, the first few days after hearing of a death) are a

magical and profound time in which the dead person's spirit is still hovering

close to earth.

>

> I was unnecessarily hesitant about admitting this in an earlier post, but I do

believe in the afterlife, and agree with your scenario: that after they die,

people are shown things about themselves that open their eyes. At that point,

it's too late for them to fix whatever damage they did to others, but I guess

it's good in the eternal-soul department.

>

> Those first three days are a once-in-a-lifetime transition time when our

hearts and souls are in a special place, partly the present and partly the past,

partly in ordinary reality and partly in an alternate reality. I think we have

access, during this time, to tools that we otherwise can't use or even see.

" Making lemonade " with them is a brilliant idea. I commend your courage!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Amy, nice to hear from you! You make such good points, and show the KO seesaw

of emotions that BPs put us on, right up until the final hour.

Amy, you wrote: " My whole life, I've been threatened with her death...and I've

always feared it. But, what might happen is what you are describing. Freedom?

Relief? An end of an era? "

They say " home is where the heart is. " It's where we want our hearts to be, but

they are crushed and dying there, so we have to move. Thank God I have enough

friends who act as my family, to have had not one but two hearty Thanksgiving

holidays. If I had come out of a lonely, solitary Thanksgiving and faced this

news, it would have been much harder.

I think the trick is not to let BPD/NPD parents " go onto that good night "

without a backup plan and an alternative support system for ourselves. I think

the most important thing I've learned from all this is that Nada, Fada and

Brudda give only the ILLUSION of family. My heart and mind have told me for

decades " there in no one there for me, I have no family. " And yet Nada, Fada and

Brudda can act like a Berlin Wall to creating my own family, if I let them.

Also, the outside world looks and says, " See? You have a family. " But I don't.

It has taken Fada's death to really and truly " get " this at the deepest level.

My mourning is really not for Fada. How could anyone mourn someone so cold and

false? Instead a part of me still mourns for that lost childhood and " what might

have been " even though I KNOW that's a waste of time.

As I metaphorically stand at Fada's grave, I think: Every moment I spent

worrying and crying over my BPD family, was a moment wasted. I could have

invested that moment into the precious gold of healthy friendships. I was right

to move 3,500 miles away and I was right to go NC. But my mind still wasted a

lot of time and tears on a family that wasn't. If only I had made the separation

decades sooner.

Yes, I'm free. I feel like a prisoner who just walked into the sunlight after 50

years of incarceration, only to find the cell door was unlocked the whole time.

Now I feel like the old grandfather in Moonstruck at the family breakfast table,

" Somebody tell a joke! "

Affectionately,

AFB

" I guess what Im doing now is applying this

to how I live my life now, and investigting if I've let any fleas affect the way

I live here and now. I guess that's what they call making lemonade when life

hands you lemons. It's the best use of my mourning time. If anybody has

experience with this, I'd love to hear. "

> >

> > I think this is a wise, courageous choice. It's hard, because the outside

world has expectations about how we're " supposed " to mourn -- how we're supposed

to act and even feel after the death of a relative. But those of us who had

(have) issues with the person who died cannot follow that script. In my case,

trying to explain to others how I felt was disastrous. They were horrified that

I was speaking " ill of the dead. " This still happens, years later. So my advice

in this regard would be to feel your feelings, make the lemonade, but be

cautious about whom you tell -- because society is hooked on its " scripts, " and

it's exhausting to have to keep defending your viewpoints.

> >

> > Other cultures such as the Zoroastrians believe that the first three days

after a death (in your case, the first few days after hearing of a death) are a

magical and profound time in which the dead person's spirit is still hovering

close to earth.

> >

> > I was unnecessarily hesitant about admitting this in an earlier post, but I

do believe in the afterlife, and agree with your scenario: that after they die,

people are shown things about themselves that open their eyes. At that point,

it's too late for them to fix whatever damage they did to others, but I guess

it's good in the eternal-soul department.

> >

> > Those first three days are a once-in-a-lifetime transition time when our

hearts and souls are in a special place, partly the present and partly the past,

partly in ordinary reality and partly in an alternate reality. I think we have

access, during this time, to tools that we otherwise can't use or even see.

" Making lemonade " with them is a brilliant idea. I commend your courage!

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am sorry about your loss, and about how you found out.

This is what I love about this group. A concept like your family withholding

information about someone being sick or dying, is readily acknowledged and

understood. Before I found this group, I would, when upset and needing to talk,

try to talk to a muggle about something like this, and just end up frustrated.

I would want to express my feelings, fear, anger, etc., about information being

withheld, but my well meaning friend would not be able to grasp how/why a

relative/parent would do this to their child, and I would end up frustrated,

trying to explain it. Its hard enough to have a family member get seriously ill

or die, but having to worry about not being told, and how you will find it out,

is literally unbelievable.

Joanna

>

> I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

>

> Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

>

> Thanks for listening, everybody.

>

[Guest guest]

I am sorry about your loss, and about how you found out.

This is what I love about this group. A concept like your family withholding

information about someone being sick or dying, is readily acknowledged and

understood. Before I found this group, I would, when upset and needing to talk,

try to talk to a muggle about something like this, and just end up frustrated.

I would want to express my feelings, fear, anger, etc., about information being

withheld, but my well meaning friend would not be able to grasp how/why a

relative/parent would do this to their child, and I would end up frustrated,

trying to explain it. Its hard enough to have a family member get seriously ill

or die, but having to worry about not being told, and how you will find it out,

is literally unbelievable.

Joanna

>

> I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

>

> Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

>

> Thanks for listening, everybody.

>

[Guest guest]

I am sorry about your loss, and about how you found out.

This is what I love about this group. A concept like your family withholding

information about someone being sick or dying, is readily acknowledged and

understood. Before I found this group, I would, when upset and needing to talk,

try to talk to a muggle about something like this, and just end up frustrated.

I would want to express my feelings, fear, anger, etc., about information being

withheld, but my well meaning friend would not be able to grasp how/why a

relative/parent would do this to their child, and I would end up frustrated,

trying to explain it. Its hard enough to have a family member get seriously ill

or die, but having to worry about not being told, and how you will find it out,

is literally unbelievable.

Joanna

>

> I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when the

event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and all

parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My ex-family has

never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner. It's just one more

delicious source of manipulation and control.

>

> Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental units

would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada died

protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his children for.

Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest in Peace. And

leave me in peace, too.

>

> Thanks for listening, everybody.

>

[Guest guest]

A muggle!!!! EXACTLY XOXO MWAH. Let us use that phrase forevermore.

>

>

> I am sorry about your loss, and about how you found out.

>

> This is what I love about this group. A concept like your family

> withholding information about someone being sick or dying, is readily

> acknowledged and understood. Before I found this group, I would, when upset

> and needing to talk, try to talk to a muggle about something like this, and

> just end up frustrated. I would want to express my feelings, fear, anger,

> etc., about information being withheld, but my well meaning friend would not

> be able to grasp how/why a relative/parent would do this to their child, and

> I would end up frustrated, trying to explain it. Its hard enough to have a

> family member get seriously ill or die, but having to worry about not being

> told, and how you will find it out, is literally unbelievable.

>

> Joanna

>

>

>

> >

> > I just found out this morning from a Flying Monkey that Nada passed away.

> Interesting to note that the Flying Monkey didn't bother to let me know when

> the event actually happened, only now that the funeral is safely over and

> all parties have milked their personal gain and attention from it. My

> ex-family has never informed me of deaths in the family in a timely manner.

> It's just one more delicious source of manipulation and control.

> >

> > Well, I always knew this would happen--that one or both of the parental

> units would pass, and I'd find out somewhere, somehow down the line. Nada

> died protecting the secrets he so carefully held, and sacrificed his

> children for. Bravo, Nada, you did it. Nothing to worry about anymore. Rest

> in Peace. And leave me in peace, too.

> >

> > Thanks for listening, everybody.

> >

>

>

>