Guest guest Posted December 1, 2010 Report Share Posted December 1, 2010 I know this is an older thread, but I really appreciated this person's comments. This particular statement stood out to me: >...instead of realizing that a child should not be treated this way >they take the opinion of " your mother is sick and therefore we must just tolerate her, if she had cancer you wouldn't abandon her and >this is no different. I've heard that kind of argument, too... I would just like to make the observation that it isn't a very good analogy. Cancer only eats up the person who has it, and if they'd rather die than get treatment, other people can usually understand that. BPD is much more analogous to someone with HIV who, instead of getting treatment, insists on trying to infect the rest of the world so she doesn't have to be the only one who dies. The courts call it murder when someone like that does not take measures to prevent infecting others, or engages in aggressive acts with the intent to infect others--like spitting in someone's eye, or having unprotected sex--or worse, rape. No one would accuse someone who chooses to stay far, far away from a person like that of " abandoning " them. kt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2010 Report Share Posted December 1, 2010 Hhmm,yes,,HIV is actually a more apt disease analogy since BPD is " communicable " in the form of the fleas our BP parents inflict on us,like a virus. No defenseless child should be left to bear that contagion. > >...instead of realizing that a child should not be treated this way >they take the opinion of " your mother is sick and therefore we must just tolerate her, if she had cancer you wouldn't abandon her and >this is no different. > > I've heard that kind of argument, too... > > I would just like to make the observation that it isn't a very good analogy. Cancer only eats up the person who has it, and if they'd rather die than get treatment, other people can usually understand that. > > BPD is much more analogous to someone with HIV who, instead of getting treatment, insists on trying to infect the rest of the world so she doesn't have to be the only one who dies. > > The courts call it murder when someone like that does not take measures to prevent infecting others, or engages in aggressive acts with the intent to infect others--like spitting in someone's eye, or having unprotected sex--or worse, rape. No one would accuse someone who chooses to stay far, far away from a person like that of " abandoning " them. > > kt > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 This is not a joke, word for word my mom has said the SAME things to me, in fact many many of them word for word in emails! CRAZY! Are we sisters? haha! LB > > I decided to post " the letter " . This is the one my momster delivered the > day after I came home from the hospital with DD2. It was the first and only > time she has seen DD2. I have been told that there is nothing wrong with > the letter, it is not hurtful, it is not nasty, it is not abusive, and I am > overreacting. Here it is: > > It's time I have a talk with you. I'm writing because I don't want any > screaming or yelling. I can't take it anymore. I just have to get this off > my chest. Please don't get me wrong, I am not blaming everything on you and > (hubby), I am just letting you know what is bothering me. (me), you only > get one mother in this world. I am sorry you got stuck with me.I don't know > what I did to you in life that makes you so hateful towards me. If you > would like to talk about it I am here for you. I always will be. I have > been a worry wart all my life, It drove me nuts when you kids were little. > I can't change, you will just have to accept it. I accept the way you are. > There are things I don't agree with you about. But I don't yell at you like > you do me. You and (hubby) both treat me like shit. I have to walk on > eggshells every time I come to your house. I am so afraid of saying or > doing something wrong. In fear that you will yell at me. That's not the > way it's supposed to be. You are my daughter, I should feel very > comfortable in your house. And the fact that you won't let me watch your > kids, just puts a knife right through my heart. I have been watching > (neice) since she was born. And I do a hell of a job with her. It gives us > time to bond together. You won't give me that chance to bond with (DD1) and > I'm sure the same with (DD2). What does (hubby)'s mother have that I > don't? She gets to keep (DD1) overnight every week. Why can't I? You have > never given me an honest answer. I really need to know. And the fact that > you called me 20 minutes before (DD2) was born, is just proof you did not > want me there. A very important moment in my life, to be there when my > granddaughter was born, you took that away from me. But I see (best friend) > was there. You must have called me last. Another stab in the heart. > Honey, I don't want to go on like this, I want us all to get along. (me), > this is the hardest thing I ever had to do in life, but I have to do it. > Until you and (hubby) start treating me with respect, I can no longer come > to your house. However, I hope you can find it in your heart to bring the > kids over to see me. I love all three of my grand babies more than life > itself > > Mom > > First, " if you would like to talk about it I am here for you " --I tried when > I called her to discuss boundaries and how she has hurt me. She screamed > over me and would not listen. > > " I don't yell at you like you do me " --most times she doesn't yell but has > other family gang up on me or pushes something over and over until I cave. > She does scream at the top of her lungs at times. > > As for me yelling at her it has only been 4 times in 18 months. 1)DD1's > first Christmas when I spent all day cooking and she showed up and demanded > I leave the meal to sit and get cold because she wanted to see my 4 month > old open gifts. She freaked out and I yelled at her to leave. 2) DD2's > second Christmas when she called 2 weeks before and demanded I abandon all > my plans so she could have her " right " to have Christmas at her house. > 3)The day I went into labor with DD2 when she ignored my request to stop > interfering with DD1 5 TIMES in less than an hour. 4) When I was in late > labor and about to deliver she whined to me about all the ways I could die > in the hospital. > > " The fact that you won't let me watch your kids... " --This is because with my > niece she leaves her alone with 2 mean dogs, refuses to use a safe and > properly installed carseat, and smokes in a closed car with her and then > asks people not to tell my brother. > > " You have never given me an honest answer " --We have discussed it several > times. > > " You won't give me the chance to bond with DD1--She was at our house for > hours one a week and often invited herself over without asking other times. > > That I did not want her at the birth was true but also she told me she did > not want to be there and I called her all night and her phone was out of > order. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 This is not a joke, word for word my mom has said the SAME things to me, in fact many many of them word for word in emails! CRAZY! Are we sisters? haha! LB > > I decided to post " the letter " . This is the one my momster delivered the > day after I came home from the hospital with DD2. It was the first and only > time she has seen DD2. I have been told that there is nothing wrong with > the letter, it is not hurtful, it is not nasty, it is not abusive, and I am > overreacting. Here it is: > > It's time I have a talk with you. I'm writing because I don't want any > screaming or yelling. I can't take it anymore. I just have to get this off > my chest. Please don't get me wrong, I am not blaming everything on you and > (hubby), I am just letting you know what is bothering me. (me), you only > get one mother in this world. I am sorry you got stuck with me.I don't know > what I did to you in life that makes you so hateful towards me. If you > would like to talk about it I am here for you. I always will be. I have > been a worry wart all my life, It drove me nuts when you kids were little. > I can't change, you will just have to accept it. I accept the way you are. > There are things I don't agree with you about. But I don't yell at you like > you do me. You and (hubby) both treat me like shit. I have to walk on > eggshells every time I come to your house. I am so afraid of saying or > doing something wrong. In fear that you will yell at me. That's not the > way it's supposed to be. You are my daughter, I should feel very > comfortable in your house. And the fact that you won't let me watch your > kids, just puts a knife right through my heart. I have been watching > (neice) since she was born. And I do a hell of a job with her. It gives us > time to bond together. You won't give me that chance to bond with (DD1) and > I'm sure the same with (DD2). What does (hubby)'s mother have that I > don't? She gets to keep (DD1) overnight every week. Why can't I? You have > never given me an honest answer. I really need to know. And the fact that > you called me 20 minutes before (DD2) was born, is just proof you did not > want me there. A very important moment in my life, to be there when my > granddaughter was born, you took that away from me. But I see (best friend) > was there. You must have called me last. Another stab in the heart. > Honey, I don't want to go on like this, I want us all to get along. (me), > this is the hardest thing I ever had to do in life, but I have to do it. > Until you and (hubby) start treating me with respect, I can no longer come > to your house. However, I hope you can find it in your heart to bring the > kids over to see me. I love all three of my grand babies more than life > itself > > Mom > > First, " if you would like to talk about it I am here for you " --I tried when > I called her to discuss boundaries and how she has hurt me. She screamed > over me and would not listen. > > " I don't yell at you like you do me " --most times she doesn't yell but has > other family gang up on me or pushes something over and over until I cave. > She does scream at the top of her lungs at times. > > As for me yelling at her it has only been 4 times in 18 months. 1)DD1's > first Christmas when I spent all day cooking and she showed up and demanded > I leave the meal to sit and get cold because she wanted to see my 4 month > old open gifts. She freaked out and I yelled at her to leave. 2) DD2's > second Christmas when she called 2 weeks before and demanded I abandon all > my plans so she could have her " right " to have Christmas at her house. > 3)The day I went into labor with DD2 when she ignored my request to stop > interfering with DD1 5 TIMES in less than an hour. 4) When I was in late > labor and about to deliver she whined to me about all the ways I could die > in the hospital. > > " The fact that you won't let me watch your kids... " --This is because with my > niece she leaves her alone with 2 mean dogs, refuses to use a safe and > properly installed carseat, and smokes in a closed car with her and then > asks people not to tell my brother. > > " You have never given me an honest answer " --We have discussed it several > times. > > " You won't give me the chance to bond with DD1--She was at our house for > hours one a week and often invited herself over without asking other times. > > That I did not want her at the birth was true but also she told me she did > not want to be there and I called her all night and her phone was out of > order. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 , where have you been all my life???? Wow. I love your synopsis of the three groups of people. I can name you people in my life who belong to each of the groups. Funny thing is, because we were so messed up as kids with our nadas, we are very susceptible to other people's judgements (I believe). We don't really know what " normal " is or the way loving families are supposed to be, so when people tell us this stuff, we tend to believe them. Thankfully, with age comes experience and we get to see exactly what you are talking about, the different camps of " judgers " (or non-judgers). So great that you wrote that. I will have a place to put people's comments now, instead of carrying them around on my shoulders! > > *Someone who didn't know the dynamics of your > relationship could easily paint you as the bad guy, which is probably > why some have told you that you are overreacting* > > This exactly! I have been able to pinpoint 4 distinct outlooks that people > in my life take. 3 of them don't get it. They are: > > - The " honor thy mother, she's your mother no matter what " group. They > beleive that giving birth to me automatically solidifies a lifelong > relationship NO MATTER WHAT. If she will not be reasonable, respect me, or > even listen to me I still must continue the relationship for no other reason > than she's my mother. If she will not take responsibility for her part than > I must shoulder all the responsibility for carrying on the relationship. If > I do not I will regret it forever and ever after she passes.(My aunt/her > sister has actually said to me that I will regret how I treat her and I am > depriving my children of a grandma IN SPITE OF that fact that she knows my > mother puts my niece in danger.) > - The " it must be you " group. These are the people who do not see the > behind closed doors treatment I receive. They see only that my mother > spoils me. Buying excessive(also cheap, unwanted) gifts = good mother. > Since I am so spoiled I must be overreacting and therefore all the horrible > things my mother says about me must be true. They either join my mother in > putting me down and telling me how horrible of a daughter I am or feel sorry > for my mother and give her advice such as having me arrested, punishing me > severely, or getting me the mental help that I need(which I do/did but not > for the reasons they thought and my mother would never take me to therapy > because that would out her) > - The " your mother is sick in the head " group. This is the group of > people who recognize that my mother has issues but instead of realizing that > a child should not be treated this way they take the opinion of " your mother > is sick and therefore we must just tolerate her, if she had cancer you > wouldn't abandon her and this is no different. Effectively, they also make > my mother's issues my responsibility. I hear things like " it's just how she > is " from them. > - The " supporters " group. These are the few people in my life who > beleive me wholeheartedly, support me in my decisions regarding my > relationship with mom, and understand that it is not my fault and I have no > obligation to take her crap. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 , where have you been all my life???? Wow. I love your synopsis of the three groups of people. I can name you people in my life who belong to each of the groups. Funny thing is, because we were so messed up as kids with our nadas, we are very susceptible to other people's judgements (I believe). We don't really know what " normal " is or the way loving families are supposed to be, so when people tell us this stuff, we tend to believe them. Thankfully, with age comes experience and we get to see exactly what you are talking about, the different camps of " judgers " (or non-judgers). So great that you wrote that. I will have a place to put people's comments now, instead of carrying them around on my shoulders! > > *Someone who didn't know the dynamics of your > relationship could easily paint you as the bad guy, which is probably > why some have told you that you are overreacting* > > This exactly! I have been able to pinpoint 4 distinct outlooks that people > in my life take. 3 of them don't get it. They are: > > - The " honor thy mother, she's your mother no matter what " group. They > beleive that giving birth to me automatically solidifies a lifelong > relationship NO MATTER WHAT. If she will not be reasonable, respect me, or > even listen to me I still must continue the relationship for no other reason > than she's my mother. If she will not take responsibility for her part than > I must shoulder all the responsibility for carrying on the relationship. If > I do not I will regret it forever and ever after she passes.(My aunt/her > sister has actually said to me that I will regret how I treat her and I am > depriving my children of a grandma IN SPITE OF that fact that she knows my > mother puts my niece in danger.) > - The " it must be you " group. These are the people who do not see the > behind closed doors treatment I receive. They see only that my mother > spoils me. Buying excessive(also cheap, unwanted) gifts = good mother. > Since I am so spoiled I must be overreacting and therefore all the horrible > things my mother says about me must be true. They either join my mother in > putting me down and telling me how horrible of a daughter I am or feel sorry > for my mother and give her advice such as having me arrested, punishing me > severely, or getting me the mental help that I need(which I do/did but not > for the reasons they thought and my mother would never take me to therapy > because that would out her) > - The " your mother is sick in the head " group. This is the group of > people who recognize that my mother has issues but instead of realizing that > a child should not be treated this way they take the opinion of " your mother > is sick and therefore we must just tolerate her, if she had cancer you > wouldn't abandon her and this is no different. Effectively, they also make > my mother's issues my responsibility. I hear things like " it's just how she > is " from them. > - The " supporters " group. These are the few people in my life who > beleive me wholeheartedly, support me in my decisions regarding my > relationship with mom, and understand that it is not my fault and I have no > obligation to take her crap. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Wow, I know I am repeating what many others said but I too could hear my own nada in everything your nada said in her letter. She seems high functioning enough to pull stuff over everyone elses eyes, I would venture to guess. I know that kind of nada all too well. I am sorry that you have to go through this. Know that you are not the one with the problem. For another mother, most of all your own mother, to demand so much of you when you need to focus on your little ones is beyond horrible. Be good to yourself and try not to feel an ounce of guilt for protecting yourself and your family. For me also, it seemed like the more I let nada into my life, the more she demanded of me. Know that her never having enough of you is being cruel to you and trying to control you. You have every right to say no. I am sure you know these things but I know that FOG can suck the lifeblood out of us. Be strong. peace patinage > > I decided to post " the letter " . This is the one my momster delivered the > day after I came home from the hospital with DD2. It was the first and only > time she has seen DD2. I have been told that there is nothing wrong with > the letter, it is not hurtful, it is not nasty, it is not abusive, and I am > overreacting. Here it is: > > It's time I have a talk with you. I'm writing because I don't want any > screaming or yelling. I can't take it anymore. I just have to get this off > my chest. Please don't get me wrong, I am not blaming everything on you and > (hubby), I am just letting you know what is bothering me. (me), you only > get one mother in this world. I am sorry you got stuck with me.I don't know > what I did to you in life that makes you so hateful towards me. If you > would like to talk about it I am here for you. I always will be. I have > been a worry wart all my life, It drove me nuts when you kids were little. > I can't change, you will just have to accept it. I accept the way you are. > There are things I don't agree with you about. But I don't yell at you like > you do me. You and (hubby) both treat me like shit. I have to walk on > eggshells every time I come to your house. I am so afraid of saying or > doing something wrong. In fear that you will yell at me. That's not the > way it's supposed to be. You are my daughter, I should feel very > comfortable in your house. And the fact that you won't let me watch your > kids, just puts a knife right through my heart. I have been watching > (neice) since she was born. And I do a hell of a job with her. It gives us > time to bond together. You won't give me that chance to bond with (DD1) and > I'm sure the same with (DD2). What does (hubby)'s mother have that I > don't? She gets to keep (DD1) overnight every week. Why can't I? You have > never given me an honest answer. I really need to know. And the fact that > you called me 20 minutes before (DD2) was born, is just proof you did not > want me there. A very important moment in my life, to be there when my > granddaughter was born, you took that away from me. But I see (best friend) > was there. You must have called me last. Another stab in the heart. > Honey, I don't want to go on like this, I want us all to get along. (me), > this is the hardest thing I ever had to do in life, but I have to do it. > Until you and (hubby) start treating me with respect, I can no longer come > to your house. However, I hope you can find it in your heart to bring the > kids over to see me. I love all three of my grand babies more than life > itself > > Mom > > First, " if you would like to talk about it I am here for you " --I tried when > I called her to discuss boundaries and how she has hurt me. She screamed > over me and would not listen. > > " I don't yell at you like you do me " --most times she doesn't yell but has > other family gang up on me or pushes something over and over until I cave. > She does scream at the top of her lungs at times. > > As for me yelling at her it has only been 4 times in 18 months. 1)DD1's > first Christmas when I spent all day cooking and she showed up and demanded > I leave the meal to sit and get cold because she wanted to see my 4 month > old open gifts. She freaked out and I yelled at her to leave. 2) DD2's > second Christmas when she called 2 weeks before and demanded I abandon all > my plans so she could have her " right " to have Christmas at her house. > 3)The day I went into labor with DD2 when she ignored my request to stop > interfering with DD1 5 TIMES in less than an hour. 4) When I was in late > labor and about to deliver she whined to me about all the ways I could die > in the hospital. > > " The fact that you won't let me watch your kids... " --This is because with my > niece she leaves her alone with 2 mean dogs, refuses to use a safe and > properly installed carseat, and smokes in a closed car with her and then > asks people not to tell my brother. > > " You have never given me an honest answer " --We have discussed it several > times. > > " You won't give me the chance to bond with DD1--She was at our house for > hours one a week and often invited herself over without asking other times. > > That I did not want her at the birth was true but also she told me she did > not want to be there and I called her all night and her phone was out of > order. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Wow, I know I am repeating what many others said but I too could hear my own nada in everything your nada said in her letter. She seems high functioning enough to pull stuff over everyone elses eyes, I would venture to guess. I know that kind of nada all too well. I am sorry that you have to go through this. Know that you are not the one with the problem. For another mother, most of all your own mother, to demand so much of you when you need to focus on your little ones is beyond horrible. Be good to yourself and try not to feel an ounce of guilt for protecting yourself and your family. For me also, it seemed like the more I let nada into my life, the more she demanded of me. Know that her never having enough of you is being cruel to you and trying to control you. You have every right to say no. I am sure you know these things but I know that FOG can suck the lifeblood out of us. Be strong. peace patinage > > I decided to post " the letter " . This is the one my momster delivered the > day after I came home from the hospital with DD2. It was the first and only > time she has seen DD2. I have been told that there is nothing wrong with > the letter, it is not hurtful, it is not nasty, it is not abusive, and I am > overreacting. Here it is: > > It's time I have a talk with you. I'm writing because I don't want any > screaming or yelling. I can't take it anymore. I just have to get this off > my chest. Please don't get me wrong, I am not blaming everything on you and > (hubby), I am just letting you know what is bothering me. (me), you only > get one mother in this world. I am sorry you got stuck with me.I don't know > what I did to you in life that makes you so hateful towards me. If you > would like to talk about it I am here for you. I always will be. I have > been a worry wart all my life, It drove me nuts when you kids were little. > I can't change, you will just have to accept it. I accept the way you are. > There are things I don't agree with you about. But I don't yell at you like > you do me. You and (hubby) both treat me like shit. I have to walk on > eggshells every time I come to your house. I am so afraid of saying or > doing something wrong. In fear that you will yell at me. That's not the > way it's supposed to be. You are my daughter, I should feel very > comfortable in your house. And the fact that you won't let me watch your > kids, just puts a knife right through my heart. I have been watching > (neice) since she was born. And I do a hell of a job with her. It gives us > time to bond together. You won't give me that chance to bond with (DD1) and > I'm sure the same with (DD2). What does (hubby)'s mother have that I > don't? She gets to keep (DD1) overnight every week. Why can't I? You have > never given me an honest answer. I really need to know. And the fact that > you called me 20 minutes before (DD2) was born, is just proof you did not > want me there. A very important moment in my life, to be there when my > granddaughter was born, you took that away from me. But I see (best friend) > was there. You must have called me last. Another stab in the heart. > Honey, I don't want to go on like this, I want us all to get along. (me), > this is the hardest thing I ever had to do in life, but I have to do it. > Until you and (hubby) start treating me with respect, I can no longer come > to your house. However, I hope you can find it in your heart to bring the > kids over to see me. I love all three of my grand babies more than life > itself > > Mom > > First, " if you would like to talk about it I am here for you " --I tried when > I called her to discuss boundaries and how she has hurt me. She screamed > over me and would not listen. > > " I don't yell at you like you do me " --most times she doesn't yell but has > other family gang up on me or pushes something over and over until I cave. > She does scream at the top of her lungs at times. > > As for me yelling at her it has only been 4 times in 18 months. 1)DD1's > first Christmas when I spent all day cooking and she showed up and demanded > I leave the meal to sit and get cold because she wanted to see my 4 month > old open gifts. She freaked out and I yelled at her to leave. 2) DD2's > second Christmas when she called 2 weeks before and demanded I abandon all > my plans so she could have her " right " to have Christmas at her house. > 3)The day I went into labor with DD2 when she ignored my request to stop > interfering with DD1 5 TIMES in less than an hour. 4) When I was in late > labor and about to deliver she whined to me about all the ways I could die > in the hospital. > > " The fact that you won't let me watch your kids... " --This is because with my > niece she leaves her alone with 2 mean dogs, refuses to use a safe and > properly installed carseat, and smokes in a closed car with her and then > asks people not to tell my brother. > > " You have never given me an honest answer " --We have discussed it several > times. > > " You won't give me the chance to bond with DD1--She was at our house for > hours one a week and often invited herself over without asking other times. > > That I did not want her at the birth was true but also she told me she did > not want to be there and I called her all night and her phone was out of > order. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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