Re: Christmas and the Holidays with Nada

December 11, 2010

Hi ,

I'm so sorry you're having to live with your nada (practically); after reading

the kind of interaction you have with her I can see how stressful that must be

for you. Wow.

My interpretation is that your nada redirects a question when she doesn't want

to answer it. I could be wrong, but her obtuseness seems deliberate to me. In

the situation you used as an illustration, admitting she turned the light off

when you needed it to be on would mean either that she turned the light off on

purpose or accidentally, and she didn't want to admit either one.

So she deflects and dodges your uncomfortable direct question by asking you

questions instead, and skitters away on tangent issues that are only

semi-related to your question. (Politicians are good at this too; its rare for

one of them to answer a direct question directly.)

It is crazy-making to have a personal relationship with someone like that; its

like trying to have a rational, meaningful conversation with the March Hare or

the Mad Hatter.

If there are no options for you at this time to move away, then the only thing I

can think of that might help you is to start reading up on some good techniques

for boundary-setting, like in the " Stop Walking On Eggshells " books, and in the

book " Boundaries. " And try reading up on co-dependency: " Co-dependent No More "

I've heard is good. There are free CODA meetings in many cities around the

country, and its like a face to face support group for those who want to wean

themselves from an unhealthy co-dependent relationship. There may also be NAMI

meetings in your area, which I think are free as well: NAMI offers emotional

support for those with a mentally ill person in the family.

My suggestion is that the less time you spend interacting with your nada at all,

the better, and meet-up groups and other social activities scheduled every

evening can help with that.

-Annie

>

> I should be reading and writing on these forums more often. I was doing a lot

of writing last year on Daily Strength, when i was going through a tough time

with my depression and such. I know and admit I am far from being perfect, but I

have always tried to be proactive in getting help for myself, even if it was not

always available. I know I suffer from bad bouts of depression, and have ADHD,

but I knew this and have always admitted I needed help with these things. This

is what really upsets me the most with my relationship with my Nada. I am the

black sheep, the bad seed, the screw up, and she uses it against me every chance

she gets, and never looks at herself or take responsibility for her actions. She

explains all her past abuse with justification, instead of just knowing and

admitting they were wrong, NO BUTS and change her behavior for the better.

Unfortunately, this will probably never happen and I have to get myself mentally

and emotionally ready to separate from her. I am currently disabled, but keep

myself quite busy doing quite a bit of volunteer work for my church and lodge.

Growing up, I never had a large group of friends, and I think this made my

relationship with my Nada worse, on my part of being able to separate from her

emotionally. I know that I probably do not have to explain to much, because most

of you will understand where I am coming from. I directly asked my therapist,

why they never considered or diagnosed me with BPD. My therapist told me it is

extremely rare for a Man to be diagnosed with it, and they are diagnose with

other personality disorders like Antisocial personality DIsorder. Antisocial

does not fit me at all, specially the unsympathetic part, and reading it scared

the heck out of me, for I feel my sympathy for others is what makes me human,

and I do not have that, than I am some kind of useless psychotic.

>

> Anyway, I was reading some posts about " Am I the one with BPD " ? I have been

told I have some kind of general personality disorder, but they do not know what

came first the personality disorder or the Depression and ADHD type of thing.

All I know is I want to feel sane in my own mind, and am tired of my

relationship with my Nada. many times I feel I rather be beaten, for that is

black and white who is wrong and who is right. With my Nada's mind games, they

hurt so much worse, and many times leave me feeling like a bad son, and alone

with my tears of emotional separation. I am tired of the insanity I feel that I

am the one that is crazy. What makes this worse is that I am not allowed to have

therapy treatment anymore, cause NY passed a new law only allowing treatment for

5 years, due to some Doctors and therapists taking advantage. I understand this,

but don't understand this. It was a big turn around on their stand of my

treatment plan. Before it was acceptable that I would go to therapy my whole

life, to help me get through life, specially when I have the bouts of deep

depression and can not think for myself. I fortunately go to a CVB (Crime

Victims Board) therapist, which why I am a victim is another story and also

involves my Nada.

>

> Anyway, maybe like many here, my Nada has not been officially diagnosed, for

she goes back and forth on seeking therapy, and blames others for not going. In

other words, she seems to think she can not just go alone, but has to go with

someone else, like my sister, so she has someone to blame maybe. I am just

tried, and feel like I am getting old fast. I am tired of the games, specially

around this time of year. I go out volunteer, ring the bell for salvation army

to feel good about myself, only to have all that taken away by just talking a

few minutes with my Nada. That is always a quick trip of seeing your life pass

you by of everything you did wrong, and why i can not do anything right etc. I

admit that I do seek others compliments of what I do, but I feel like it is

never enough. It makes me feel good, but I do not believe it, and they do not

know me very well, and if they did they would also know I was just a screw up,

like my Nada makes me feel.

>

> I try to do everything my therapists tell me to do. Walk away, do not say a

thing, to not allow them to trap me in arguments that are unwinnable. Stop

asking their opinions on things. Disassociate myself from them emotionally and

not care that I will not be able to ever make them happy or please them. I say

they, cause i was told my other sister has BPD from living with my mother the

longest and she just moved out last year at the age of 35. Every Christmas it is

the same. I try to buckle down and ignore the crap just to get through it and

have 11 months till the next horrible event. The Holidays should not be like

this, and I am tired of always feeling that I mess things up, when I know for a

fact I did nothing wrong. I feel completely insane, and almost makes me feel out

of body.

>

> Last week, I was not talking to my Nada, well according to her. This was not

true, and there is nothing to back up her claim, accept her screwed up reality

of what is. What she wanted me to do, in which I kept myself from doing, is

entrap me in another argument of insanity. I walked out of Thanksgiving, because

my Nada was putting me down the whole night, and we were playing a family board

game, and I had it. She put me down one more time , I got up and said I am done,

and walked away went upstairs to my apartment. I felt proud of myself that I

said nothing else to encourage my Nada to argue with me, and make me look bad.

Of course she followed me with words such as " Fine leave who needs you. You are

rude anyway, so go get out of my house! " I was proud of myself that I did not

respond to her at all. Anyway, I walked away went upstairs, and the next few

days she called me about something off topic. She left long drawn out messages,

about what I needed to do, like that I had the cat in my apartment to try to

catch a mouse, and she would leave a message telling me that I needed to take

the cat out to use the bathroom. The funny thing is, when she left the message

the cat was already gone, cause I realized it was not going to catch the mouse

inside the house, and it kept whining to go outside. She left more messages on

this topic and other things, not asking me to talk to her or call her back, but

just telling me what I should do with this and that etc. I realized this was her

attempt at trying to get me angry call her up and get into a stupid argument

with her. i realized it was a trap to engage me over nothing. This is what my

Nada does, when she knows she might feel guilty about something, to turn it

around on me, to make me look like the jerk. I have already told my Nada to

respect my phone and not to leave these long ridiculous nasty messages, and that

I would not stand for her being disrespectful. I told her before that if she

wanted to talk to me or call her back, to do so and stop leaving these vague

nasty messages and not being direct of if she wanted me to call her or not. I

felt proud of myself that no matter what my Nada said, I will pretend she never

said it, ignore it and not fall for her engagement trap. Because of this, she

told everyone I was ignoring her. So I was not, not talking with my Nada, I just

was not playing her game, and standing up for the boundaries I left. I

understood that is was my Nada trying to make it like I was needing her, and

wanting to talk to her, instead of her wanting that from me. I would not allow

her to switch places with me, so because of that I was not talking to her. and

she told my sister and my 12 year old nephew that I was not talking with her. I

told them this was not true, and that she was playing a game and trying to

switch things around because she felt bad about me walking out on Thanksgiving.

The problem is, we were raised by a Nada, I guess, Lol, and we are pretty

embedded in her hurtful games.

>

> I also realize that I can not even tell her of my boundaries, or anything else

of that matter, because she acts like a mockingbird, and tells me the the same

thing I told her, but the next day. I am like wait, I just told you that, and

she will play this switching around the roles game which makes me feel she is

setting boundaries with me and I am the Nada. This is the insanity part, and

makes me feel like pulling out my hair. i realize I can not give her any

ammunition, or even talk to her about it, for she will use what I tell her

against me another day, and make it sound like she thought it up. Has this

happened to any of you?

>

> To make it worse, when I do stand up for myself and nicely ask Nada to please

not put me down, she mocks me and says' Poor me, everyone is picking on Me,

poor, poor me,is the poor victim... " I asked her atone time to stop doing this

that it was very disrespectful when I am sharing my feelings. She agreed that it

was mean and would stop doing that,, but would do it the next time I expressed

to her that I felt hurt.

>

> I would not ride with my Nada to car pool up to a White Christmas theatre

play. I specifically asked my one sister to ride up with her. I just told her

that I did not want my Nada to start with me, and I was avoiding engaging with

her. She understood this and said it was fine. My sister tends to forget things

I have told her, and I am not sure if it is real or she does it on purpose. She

suggested I ride home with Nada, cause we live in different apartments, but

under the same house complex. I had said I did not want to, for I did not want

to be alone with Nada, and have her start with me and than without witnesses

tell others something different happened.

>

> Now I guess things are back to normal? My Nada is inviting me downstairs to

eat dinner etc, but she is starting crap again, and I get mad at myself that I

fell for her trap again. I am just tired, and only feel an obligation to

celebrate CHristmas with her, my sisters and nephews and nieces. I am just

tired, and know that I can not allow CHristmas to stop me from walking away if

she acts inappropriate, like having a field day of putting me down that I either

have to ignore, which says it is ok to act this way, get angry and confront her,

which only makes me look like an ass, or say very little and walk away, which

shows her that I will not allow her to play these mean games with me.

>

> I rent an apartment that is attached to my Nada's house.

>

> Example of a typical conversation with my Nada when she is playing her hurtful

insanity game.

>

> Me: Did she or Did my sister come back to your house and turn off the garage

light, because I turned on the light cause it was dark in the driveway because I

could not see, and wanted light when I came back and it was off.

>

> Nada: Well I left the door unlocked for the sister.

>

> Me: I know, she was here, locked the door behind her and left. It looks like

the automatic flood lights were not on, so i turned on the manual garage light

when I left, and it was off when i came home.

>

> Nada: Why would the sister come back? I left he door unlocked for her.

>

> Me: Yes I know you left the door unlocked for her. I do not know why she would

come back specially when she has no key and she locked the door when she left. I

am just trying to figure out who turned off the light, cause it is weird.

>

> Nada: Why would your sister turn off the light? Maybe you forgot you turned it

off when you left.

>

> Me: I do not know, I am just trying to understand who turned off the light. I

did not forget, for I specifically turned on the light so I could see cause it

was so dark, and to have it on when I come back so I can walk to my apartment.

>

> Nada: What are you talking about? What does this have to do with you leaving?

What does this have to do with your sister? Are you trying to scare me?

>

> Me: OK, Nada please listen. I walked out to my car to leave to go somewhere,

and it was very dark and no lights were on. I reached inside the garage door

and turned on the garage light so I could see. I left came back home and that

light was off. I do not understand why it is off and I am trying to figure it

out.

>

> Nada: yeah those flood lights get burned out so fast I have to replace them.

Why did your sister lock the door when her son's stuff is still here.

>

> Me: OK, I can not turn on the flood lights, cause they are inside your house.

I turned on the manual light, and it was off when I got home. I am wondering who

turned it off. My sister and her son got into an argument, and she asked him to

get his shoes, he said he could not find them, she said she was tired of this

shit and locked the door and left, without her son's stuff.

>

> Nada: Well you sister can get testy, but I am not going to get into it, cause

that is between them. Your sister is not very patient and she breaks her

promises all of the time and her son gets upset. Yada, yada yada.

>

> Me: Yada, yada, yada, explaining what happened with the argument between my

sister and son, because my Nada keeps asking for all kinds of details.

>

> Nada: I do not want to hear about you sister and son. Why did she get mad at

him? Well she does not treat him veery well, and yada yada yada.

>

> Me: You asked me what happened, (while she talks over me.) Nada please stop

talking over me like I am not talking.

>

> Nada: I do not want to talk about your sister and son that is Rude! You are

being Rude.

>

> Me: Ok, neither do I, but who turned off the light? (trying to stay on topic,

and ignoring her calling me rude.)

>

> Nada: What light?

>

> Me: The garage light that I turned on before I left and is off now.

>

> Nada: The flood lights got burned out. Why would you turn off the light? Why

did your sister not take her son to the roller rink?

>

> Me: Grrrr, ok that is between them, whys the to the light off?

>

> Nada: What are you talking about? Are you trying to scare me?

>

> Me: Nooo, I am just trying to understand who turned off the light?

>

> Nada: Why are you on this light thing? I thought we already discussed this?

Why did your sisters son leave his stuff here? How did he go home without shoes?

>

> Me: I gave her son a pair of my shoes to get home. They got into an argument,

ask her. I just asked why...(Nada interrupts and talks over me)

>

> Nada: I do not want to talk about your sister and her son, that is between

them. I do not know, but she is tired from working and gets testy, and does not

treat her son right. Did she bring him to the roller rink, yada, yada yada.

>

> Me: Please stop talking over me. You have a huge fit anytime someone

interrupts you. I told you about them cause you asked. I do not want to talk

about them. I just said I turned on the light before I left and it is off when I

came home.

>

> Nada: I do not want to talk about your sister and her son....

>

> Me: I KNOW AND I DON'T EITHER! Please stop bringing them up and asking me

about their argument. I just wanted to know who turned off the light....(Nada

talks over me during this, and at like I am not saying anything)

>

> Nada: I do not want to talk about your sister and son, well I still do not

understand why she left her son's stuff here. I left the door unlocked, yada,

yada yada

>

> Me: Please stop it. I just asked why the light is off, that is all. I do not

want to get into my sisters and her son's business. I just wanted to know why

the light was off when I got home, for it was weird, and wanted to make sure

everything is safe for obvious reasons, but you keep asking me about my sister

and her son, and than scolding me that you do not want to hear about it, and

keep forgetting about what i said about the light, when you still have not

answered me.

>

> Nada: BYe " Me " .

>

> Me: Huh?

>

> Nada: Bye " Me "

>

> Me: yeah...(and I hang up.)

>

> This is not a quote, and only an example of the kind of conversation I had

with her last night when she called me, when she got home. Maybe it is just me,

and I am seeing things wrong. Am I the one with BPD? Is this a normal

conversation, a misunderstanding, or a typical conversation with someone that

has BPD? it seems I have this same type of conversation with my one sister as

well.

>

December 11, 2010