spot the personality disorder in film

[Guest guest]

Here's some more old films that feature main characters with rampant, galloping

personality disorder:

" The Heiress " with Olivia de Haviland as the long-suffering daughter of an

unpleasable but oh, so polite father whose surface concern for his only child

barely masks the contempt for her he actually feels.

" Tom Brown's School Days " , with Mark Lester (the little boy from " Oliver! " ) The

antagonist in this film is the entrenched, semi-sanctioned bullying of the

youngest boys (10-11 year olds) by the graduating class (16-17 year olds.) Even

the teachers participate in the brutality by doling out " caning " as punishment.

Back in the 1830's, this shocking level of physical abuse directed at children

was just " normal " , it would seem.

" Leave Her To Heaven " with Gene Tierney and Cornel Wilde. Tierney's character

" Ellen " is described as " loving too fiercely. " Smells like malignant narcissism

+ a dash of full-blown psychopathy to me. Ellen's pathological possessiveness

and jealousy of her new husband drive her to eliminate anyone who comes between

her and " " .

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Yep, two more great films. Seems to me that all the most interesting film

antagonists have some kind of severe personality disorder or other, and even

some of the protagonists seem to have a touch of pd as well. Or maybe I'm just

" seeing " pd everywhere I look, now!

-Annie

> >

> > Here's some more old films that feature main characters with rampant,

galloping personality disorder:

> >

> > " The Heiress " with Olivia de Haviland as the long-suffering daughter of an

unpleasable but oh, so polite father whose surface concern for his only child

barely masks the contempt for her he actually feels.

> >

> > " Tom Brown's School Days " , with Mark Lester (the little boy from " Oliver! " )

The antagonist in this film is the entrenched, semi-sanctioned bullying of the

youngest boys (10-11 year olds) by the graduating class (16-17 year olds.) Even

the teachers participate in the brutality by doling out " caning " as punishment.

Back in the 1830's, this shocking level of physical abuse directed at children

was just " normal " , it would seem.

> >

> > " Leave Her To Heaven " with Gene Tierney and Cornel Wilde. Tierney's

character " Ellen " is described as " loving too fiercely. " Smells like malignant

narcissism + a dash of full-blown psychopathy to me. Ellen's pathological

possessiveness and jealousy of her new husband drive her to eliminate anyone who

comes between her and " " .

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yep, two more great films. Seems to me that all the most interesting film

antagonists have some kind of severe personality disorder or other, and even

some of the protagonists seem to have a touch of pd as well. Or maybe I'm just

" seeing " pd everywhere I look, now!

-Annie

> >

> > Here's some more old films that feature main characters with rampant,

galloping personality disorder:

> >

> > " The Heiress " with Olivia de Haviland as the long-suffering daughter of an

unpleasable but oh, so polite father whose surface concern for his only child

barely masks the contempt for her he actually feels.

> >

> > " Tom Brown's School Days " , with Mark Lester (the little boy from " Oliver! " )

The antagonist in this film is the entrenched, semi-sanctioned bullying of the

youngest boys (10-11 year olds) by the graduating class (16-17 year olds.) Even

the teachers participate in the brutality by doling out " caning " as punishment.

Back in the 1830's, this shocking level of physical abuse directed at children

was just " normal " , it would seem.

> >

> > " Leave Her To Heaven " with Gene Tierney and Cornel Wilde. Tierney's

character " Ellen " is described as " loving too fiercely. " Smells like malignant

narcissism + a dash of full-blown psychopathy to me. Ellen's pathological

possessiveness and jealousy of her new husband drive her to eliminate anyone who

comes between her and " " .

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

How about " Mommy Dearest " ? I think that one REEKS of BPD!

Also " Postcards from the Edge " .

I'm sure we could come up with more if we thought about it.

[Guest guest]

How about " Mommy Dearest " ? I think that one REEKS of BPD!

Also " Postcards from the Edge " .

I'm sure we could come up with more if we thought about it.

[Guest guest]

Those are all great films with PD characters or themes.There are so many of

them...

Of course there's " Whatever Happened To Baby Jane " starring Bette yet

again and *Joan Crawford* as her victim...extremely creepy film...the final

scenes where Joan Crawford's character is laying dead on the beach while Bette

' " Baby Jane " plays in the sand reminds me too much of my nada... " Baby

Jane " being a faded former child star who cannot deal with how her older sister

(Crawford) went on to become a successful actress as an *adult* and does all

kinds of nasty things to punish her,including crippling her by running her down

with a car.

French films...there's the film adaptation of Flaubert's " Madame

Bovary " ,one of the most famous literary BPDs.

Francois Truffaut's " The Four Hundred Blows " ,the most sensitive and

insightful character study of a child KO I can think of off the top of my

head,the KO in that film being a 12 year old boy who gets into needless trouble

because he has a self absorbed nada who can't be bothered with him--there's even

a " dishrag dad " in the film although he's the step dad.One of my favorite

films,I think it's brilliant and it tells the story from the perspective of the

hapless KO to poignant effect,imo.There's a really true to life scene in this

film--of many--where the kid deperately needs guidance and all his nada does is

cluelessly talk about herself and as the spectator you can just see how lost and

abandoned he is/how abjectly dependent he is on his completely self centered

nada and tragically how much he loves her and accepts her self indulgent

monologue as " guidance " because he literally has nothing else.Which leads to him

really screwing up as a child having to raise himself and paying the price with

no adult to assist him.

" Tati le " ( " Auntie le " ),a comedy about a well meaning niece

who takes in her " poor little fragile old lady " aunt not realizing that the

sweet little old lady is actually a sociopath/psychopath.Auntie le resents

the gesture and what she perceives as the loss of her freedom--and refuses to

play along nicely to darkly comedic effect.As the daughter of a Witch BPD,I

thought this film was pretty funny,mostly for the irony of everyone in the film

playing ostrich and wanting to see Auntie le as a " nice little old lady "

when she barely even bothers to make a pretense of being one--then meets her

match in the form of the home health aide the family hires to take over her care

who sees right through her because she's a psycho,too.What I didn't like about

this film is that it ends with Auntie le escaping from a nursing home and

getting her way.

The film adaptation of Harold Pinter's play " The Servant " with Dirk

Bogarde as the psychopathic " servant " who brings his " master " to his knees

psychologically.Really creepy film but an excellent character study of a

psychopath.

Oh,and another British film, " The Nanny " with Bette yet again,about

a little boy who keeps trying to tell everyone that there is something radically

wrong with the nanny,,but nobody believes him.He's even sent to a

psychiatrist until the nanny finally does melt down and almost kills his aunt by

not giving her her heart medication and then they figure out...oh...he was

telling the truth and he wasn't crazy after all...

Altman's film " Three Women " ,with Sissy Spacek as the suicidal BPD

who latches onto Duval's narcissist character.Really strange film but

great casting: Spacek is perfect as the childlike BPD who has no real identity

and Duval is perfect as the pathetic but arrogant NPD who looks down on Spacek's

BPD character until her attempted suicide throws her for such a loop that she

loses her false identity,too.It's hard to figure out what point this film is

trying to make but the scenes with Spacek being a BPD and Duval being an NPD are

creepily accurate.

>

> Yep, two more great films. Seems to me that all the most interesting film

antagonists have some kind of severe personality disorder or other, and even

some of the protagonists seem to have a touch of pd as well. Or maybe I'm just

" seeing " pd everywhere I look, now!

> -Annie

[Guest guest]

I can see a great party game in this for the great KO get together!

Clips from different movies on DVD, and

Spot the PD!

We d have to include Jack Nicholson s As Good as it Gets. He was

severely OCD, and they played that up. But underlying, I think a bit of

NPD.

Doug

> > >

> > > Here's some more old films that feature main characters with

rampant, galloping personality disorder:

> > >

> > > " The Heiress " with Olivia de Haviland as the long-suffering

daughter of an unpleasable but oh, so polite father whose surface

concern for his only child barely masks the contempt for her he

actually feels.

> > >

> > > " Tom Brown's School Days " , with Mark Lester (the little boy from

" Oliver! " ) The antagonist in this film is the entrenched,

semi-sanctioned bullying of the youngest boys (10-11 year olds) by the

graduating class (16-17 year olds.) Even the teachers participate in the

brutality by doling out " caning " as punishment. Back in the 1830's,

this shocking level of physical abuse directed at children was just

" normal " , it would seem.

> > >

> > > " Leave Her To Heaven " with Gene Tierney and Cornel Wilde.

Tierney's character " Ellen " is described as " loving too fiercely. "

Smells like malignant narcissism + a dash of full-blown psychopathy to

me. Ellen's pathological possessiveness and jealousy of her new husband

drive her to eliminate anyone who comes between her and " " .

> > >

> > > -Annie

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Betty Blue is a 1986 French film whose title character has several different

disorders, though (iirc) they are never specifically named. She's a gorgeous

sexy young hottie who, as her boyfriend strives to create a normal placid life

for them, displays ever-more-extreme behavior that suggests bipolar disorder,

OCD, anger-management issues, clinical depression, and more.

When it first came out, some French friends of mine raved about how great it

was, how beautiful, how cool. They never said, " It is a film about a sick woman

who basically ruins a man's life. " Finally I watched it, and got kind of an ill

feeling because the filmmaker was doing that thing that filmmakers sometimes do

-- which is making a mentally ill character into this luminously beautiful if

unpredictably icon: In other words, making mental illness itself -- in this

case, mood swings and violence -- seem " sexy " and " cool. "

[Guest guest]

Betty Blue is a 1986 French film whose title character has several different

disorders, though (iirc) they are never specifically named. She's a gorgeous

sexy young hottie who, as her boyfriend strives to create a normal placid life

for them, displays ever-more-extreme behavior that suggests bipolar disorder,

OCD, anger-management issues, clinical depression, and more.

When it first came out, some French friends of mine raved about how great it

was, how beautiful, how cool. They never said, " It is a film about a sick woman

who basically ruins a man's life. " Finally I watched it, and got kind of an ill

feeling because the filmmaker was doing that thing that filmmakers sometimes do

-- which is making a mentally ill character into this luminously beautiful if

unpredictably icon: In other words, making mental illness itself -- in this

case, mood swings and violence -- seem " sexy " and " cool. "

[Guest guest]

I haven't seen several of those, the European ones, but they sound very much

like a pd is featured and would be quite interesting!

I have seen a serialized version of " Madame Bovary " in English (British TV?) and

I agree: bpd.

Thanks everyone for listing films.

-Annie

> >

> > Yep, two more great films. Seems to me that all the most interesting film

antagonists have some kind of severe personality disorder or other, and even

some of the protagonists seem to have a touch of pd as well. Or maybe I'm just

" seeing " pd everywhere I look, now!

> > -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

I always picture Joan Crawford in Mommy Dearest as my Foos comparison.

In Batman the Dark Knight Heath Ledger protrayed an anti social personality

Disorder. Really creepy especially the line Some people will set the world on

fire just to see it burn.

Interpersonal/emotional, characterized by:

• Superficial charm [true]

• A grandiose sense of self-worth [no, because his sense of what he can do—what

he's worth—seems accurate]

• Pathological lying [true]

• Tendency to manipulate others [true]

• Doesn't feel guilt or remorse [true]

• Shallow feelings [hard to say for sure]

• Lack of empathy [true]

• Doesn't accept responsibility for his or her actions [true—although he

" claims " responsibility, he seeks to evade any negative repercussions of his

actions]

And the cat woman

Catwoman, especially in the Tim Burton movie, is a woman of many moods and

traumas. She is a dead ringer for Borderline Personality Disorder. Her

alter-ego: Selina is typical of the impulsivity characterized by borderline

personalities and is unable to hold stable relationships.

Social deviance, characterized by:

• Getting easily bored and needing frequent stimulation [Hard to say—he was able

to plan and carryout capers and murders that would be difficult for someone who

got bored easily. However, his escalating crimes suggest that he does " need "

increasingly outrageous crimes]

• No realistic long-term goals [no; his long-term goal was to get the Batman,

and he planned out a series of crimes in order to do so]

• Impulsive behavior [no]

• Having difficulty controlling behavior [doesn't seem to be the case]

• Irresponsibility [true]

• Behavioral problems that arose at an early age, possibly with juvenile

delinquency [unknown at this time]

• Engaging in different types of criminal behavior [true]

Sue

[Guest guest]

Antisocial pd (for our purposes, aka sociopathic pd or psychopathic pd) usually

also includes narcissistic traits. Seems to me that most super-villains, and

even a lot of " regular " antagonists in film and literature have a lot of

narcissistic traits if not full-blown npd or psychopathic pd.

At this point in time, I believe that a diagnosis of antisocial pd by definition

must include criminal activity, so the criminal masterminds of fiction are

aspd/sociopaths/psychopaths by default.

There is a psychiatrist-researcher, Dr. Otto Kernberg, who thinks of mental

health vs mental illness as a spectrum. RE npd/aspd, Kernberg sets up " normal

adult narcissism " (what I prefer to call " healthy self-esteem " ) at one end of

the spectrum to pathological narcissism and on to psychopathy at the other end.

He also sees a link between narcissism and borderline pd (that I don't fully

understand, so I won't even try to explain.)

I personally tend to lean towards Kernberg's " spectrum " approach to defining and

treating pds, as opposed to his " rival " theorist Dr. Heinz Kohut, who believes

that separating mental illnesses into distinct categories is more workable.

I think that in the distant future when pds can actually be viewed tested,

quantified and qualified as scientifically as possible, such as by the presence

or absence of certain genes, or the number of certain synapses in the brain, or

the amount of this or that brain chemical, or the size and functionality of that

particular brain structure, then better, more targeted/personalized treatment

and even maybe cures will be possible.

Right now it seems to me as though we are stumbling blindly around in the dark,

trying to figure out the size, shape, nature and impact of this vast and complex

thing, mental illness, by feel only.

-Annie

>

> I always picture Joan Crawford in Mommy Dearest as my Foos comparison.

>

> In Batman the Dark Knight Heath Ledger protrayed an anti social personality

Disorder. Really creepy especially the line Some people will set the world on

fire just to see it burn.

>

> Interpersonal/emotional, characterized by:

>

> • Superficial charm [true]

> • A grandiose sense of self-worth [no, because his sense of what he can

do—what he's worth—seems accurate]

> • Pathological lying [true]

> • Tendency to manipulate others [true]

> • Doesn't feel guilt or remorse [true]

> • Shallow feelings [hard to say for sure]

> • Lack of empathy [true]

> • Doesn't accept responsibility for his or her actions [true—although he

" claims " responsibility, he seeks to evade any negative repercussions of his

actions]

>

> And the cat woman

>

> Catwoman, especially in the Tim Burton movie, is a woman of many moods and

traumas. She is a dead ringer for Borderline Personality Disorder. Her

alter-ego: Selina is typical of the impulsivity characterized by borderline

personalities and is unable to hold stable relationships.

>

>

>

> Social deviance, characterized by:

>

> • Getting easily bored and needing frequent stimulation [Hard to say—he was

able to plan and carryout capers and murders that would be difficult for someone

who got bored easily. However, his escalating crimes suggest that he does " need "

increasingly outrageous crimes]

> • No realistic long-term goals [no; his long-term goal was to get the Batman,

and he planned out a series of crimes in order to do so]

> • Impulsive behavior [no]

> • Having difficulty controlling behavior [doesn't seem to be the case]

> • Irresponsibility [true]

> • Behavioral problems that arose at an early age, possibly with juvenile

delinquency [unknown at this time]

> • Engaging in different types of criminal behavior [true]

>

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

The Gaslight movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNQv6Ro26w

The husband is a psychopath/narcissistic that tries to convince his wife that

she is insane for observing the lights going dim.

Cousin Bette

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjF5cp7mOgo

I haven't watched the film but I am reading the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_Bette

The cousin is a psychopath, and BPD I believe. There are plenty of personality

disorder to sample from in this story.

Just wanted to add those two to the list.

Thank you for everyone's input.

b

[Guest guest]

The Gaslight movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNQv6Ro26w

The husband is a psychopath/narcissistic that tries to convince his wife that

she is insane for observing the lights going dim.

Cousin Bette

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjF5cp7mOgo

I haven't watched the film but I am reading the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_Bette

The cousin is a psychopath, and BPD I believe. There are plenty of personality

disorder to sample from in this story.

Just wanted to add those two to the list.

Thank you for everyone's input.

b