Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

[Guest guest]

Riska - Perhaps I shouldn't insert my two cents here, but I agree with Ms. Roth about this IF a person can do it. Because he has to be prepared for the consequences. Those consequences can include overeating until the person reaches the point he no longer wants that once-forbidden food. That was and continues to be my experience. It happened with candy, ice cream, chocolate, chips, and every other food I considered was dangerous. It works. It worked for me. I DID gain weight, but I still tried to apply the hunger - fullness principle, although not well during that period. I was aware of it so gained less weight during those episodes than I might have otherwise. The concept of hunger - satisfaction can be applied eventually to all foods and that is when a

person becomes a more normal eater. I imagine that a truly normal person would have moments in which they eat too much. But as they say, that's normal. :-) this is not to say that all can do the "legalize everything and have it around you bit." AA wants the alcoholic to have the bottle always in the house to prove to himself he can stay away from it. I'm not sure I agree with that, but then again, if it works for him, go for it. Take care, and have a good night. But me personally, I have found that allowing myself (it was hard at first) to have what I most fear around me, worked. Be forewarned though -- I did gain weight and I also stopped desiring it eventually, where I don't crave it and don't eat much of the "forbidden" substances. I have them when and if I want to. It took me a while to get here. I'm looking forward to losing weight, but I'm not letting that be my big focus because that will only

get me nervous, anxious and unhappy. TaiTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 10:01 PMSubject: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Jane, I've noticed this discrepancy before. Geneen Roth wrote that we should fill our homes with foods that we love, while other experts on intuitive eaters say to keep them out of the house--out of sight, out of mind. I think something that we can take from all this is intuitive eating is about listening to ourselves, not the experts all the time. I think it really boils down to a personality thing. Like for me it helps to have some foods around and available, and it minimizes my desire to eat them, but other foods I'd probably eat all the time if they were around!

>

> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets don't work and how we should handle desserts and other "problem" foods.

>

> "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies" by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter, blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's a quote from page 96: "Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection." They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a healthy way.

>

> "How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More" by Antonello, on the other hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine cycle. On page 50, she wrote, "People's bodies make them and keep them fat because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss efforts." She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar "real foods" and allowing oneself "pleasure foods" only once or twice a month.

>

> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually, attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

>

> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the truth to them.

>

> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the "experts" and their rants.

>

> Jane

>

[Guest guest]

Riska - Perhaps I shouldn't insert my two cents here, but I agree with Ms. Roth about this IF a person can do it. Because he has to be prepared for the consequences. Those consequences can include overeating until the person reaches the point he no longer wants that once-forbidden food. That was and continues to be my experience. It happened with candy, ice cream, chocolate, chips, and every other food I considered was dangerous. It works. It worked for me. I DID gain weight, but I still tried to apply the hunger - fullness principle, although not well during that period. I was aware of it so gained less weight during those episodes than I might have otherwise. The concept of hunger - satisfaction can be applied eventually to all foods and that is when a

person becomes a more normal eater. I imagine that a truly normal person would have moments in which they eat too much. But as they say, that's normal. :-) this is not to say that all can do the "legalize everything and have it around you bit." AA wants the alcoholic to have the bottle always in the house to prove to himself he can stay away from it. I'm not sure I agree with that, but then again, if it works for him, go for it. Take care, and have a good night. But me personally, I have found that allowing myself (it was hard at first) to have what I most fear around me, worked. Be forewarned though -- I did gain weight and I also stopped desiring it eventually, where I don't crave it and don't eat much of the "forbidden" substances. I have them when and if I want to. It took me a while to get here. I'm looking forward to losing weight, but I'm not letting that be my big focus because that will only

get me nervous, anxious and unhappy. TaiTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 10:01 PMSubject: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Jane, I've noticed this discrepancy before. Geneen Roth wrote that we should fill our homes with foods that we love, while other experts on intuitive eaters say to keep them out of the house--out of sight, out of mind. I think something that we can take from all this is intuitive eating is about listening to ourselves, not the experts all the time. I think it really boils down to a personality thing. Like for me it helps to have some foods around and available, and it minimizes my desire to eat them, but other foods I'd probably eat all the time if they were around!

>

> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets don't work and how we should handle desserts and other "problem" foods.

>

> "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies" by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter, blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's a quote from page 96: "Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection." They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a healthy way.

>

> "How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More" by Antonello, on the other hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine cycle. On page 50, she wrote, "People's bodies make them and keep them fat because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss efforts." She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar "real foods" and allowing oneself "pleasure foods" only once or twice a month.

>

> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually, attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

>

> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the truth to them.

>

> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the "experts" and their rants.

>

> Jane

>

[Guest guest]

Riska - Perhaps I shouldn't insert my two cents here, but I agree with Ms. Roth about this IF a person can do it. Because he has to be prepared for the consequences. Those consequences can include overeating until the person reaches the point he no longer wants that once-forbidden food. That was and continues to be my experience. It happened with candy, ice cream, chocolate, chips, and every other food I considered was dangerous. It works. It worked for me. I DID gain weight, but I still tried to apply the hunger - fullness principle, although not well during that period. I was aware of it so gained less weight during those episodes than I might have otherwise. The concept of hunger - satisfaction can be applied eventually to all foods and that is when a

person becomes a more normal eater. I imagine that a truly normal person would have moments in which they eat too much. But as they say, that's normal. :-) this is not to say that all can do the "legalize everything and have it around you bit." AA wants the alcoholic to have the bottle always in the house to prove to himself he can stay away from it. I'm not sure I agree with that, but then again, if it works for him, go for it. Take care, and have a good night. But me personally, I have found that allowing myself (it was hard at first) to have what I most fear around me, worked. Be forewarned though -- I did gain weight and I also stopped desiring it eventually, where I don't crave it and don't eat much of the "forbidden" substances. I have them when and if I want to. It took me a while to get here. I'm looking forward to losing weight, but I'm not letting that be my big focus because that will only

get me nervous, anxious and unhappy. TaiTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 10:01 PMSubject: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Jane, I've noticed this discrepancy before. Geneen Roth wrote that we should fill our homes with foods that we love, while other experts on intuitive eaters say to keep them out of the house--out of sight, out of mind. I think something that we can take from all this is intuitive eating is about listening to ourselves, not the experts all the time. I think it really boils down to a personality thing. Like for me it helps to have some foods around and available, and it minimizes my desire to eat them, but other foods I'd probably eat all the time if they were around!

>

> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets don't work and how we should handle desserts and other "problem" foods.

>

> "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies" by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter, blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's a quote from page 96: "Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection." They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a healthy way.

>

> "How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More" by Antonello, on the other hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine cycle. On page 50, she wrote, "People's bodies make them and keep them fat because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss efforts." She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar "real foods" and allowing oneself "pleasure foods" only once or twice a month.

>

> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually, attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

>

> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the truth to them.

>

> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the "experts" and their rants.

>

> Jane

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jane. I really do want to lose weight, but i don't want to diet, and I recognize that I'm eating way too many calories even now for me to lose weight. Yet I want to work the IE principle and not diet. Does this make sense? I hope so. Remember we're talking about using our own thinking as well as the principles others have discovered. If I could eat fewer calories without experiencing pain, I would do it, but obviously i can't and that's why I'm "on" IE. I love IE, I'm not counting calories, but I also know that I'm probably eating way too much for me to lose weight and may even gain weight. Not that I'm overly anxious about this. TaiTo: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 2:43 PMSubject: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

To me, IE means never having to count calories again. So your post was a bit jarring. But then I remembered that last night I found myself automatically adding up the calories in the 300 calorie broiled cheese sandwich I was making. Old habits die hard! Jane

> >>

> >> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets don't work and how we should handle desserts and other "problem" foods.

> >>

> >> "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies" by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter, blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's a quote from page 96: "Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection." They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a healthy way.

> >>

> >> "How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More" by Antonello, on the other hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine cycle. On page 50, she wrote, "People's bodies make them and keep them fat because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss efforts." She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar "real foods" and allowing oneself "pleasure foods" only once or twice a month.

> >>

> >> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually, attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

> >>

> >> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the truth to them.

> >>

> >> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the "experts" and their rants.

> >>

> >> Jane

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tai, losing weight. It is sometimes a gray line between losing weight and IE I think.  I think that I need to get away from the calorie counting and put my focus on eating when I am hungry and stopping when I am full. And learning to notice when I am eating emotionally(yes, boredom is an emotion).  I think much of my eating is when I am bored or don't know what to do with myself.  I have lots of things to do, even fun things, but for whatever reason I resist.  I can come up with lots of excuses(especially the " I'm too tired " one). Sandy

 

Hi, Jane. I really do want to lose weight, but i don't want to diet, and I recognize that I'm eating way too many calories even now for me to lose weight. Yet I want to work the IE principle and not diet. Does this make sense? I hope so. Remember we're talking about using our own thinking as well as the principles others have discovered. If I could eat fewer calories without experiencing pain, I would do it, but obviously i can't and that's why I'm " on " IE. I love IE, I'm not counting calories, but I also know that I'm probably eating way too much for me to lose weight and may even gain weight. Not that I'm overly anxious about this. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support

Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 2:43 PMSubject: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

 

To me, IE means never having to count calories again. So your post was a bit jarring. But then I remembered that last night I found myself automatically adding up the calories in the 300 calorie broiled cheese sandwich I was making. Old habits die hard! Jane

>

> Sandy, I don't take in what I don't want that day, that week, etc. For instance, I like cake. But I don't " need " cake any more. If I felt I needed it, I'd buy it. If I don't have cake in the house I don't yearn for it with that insatiable desire to have it, as if I have to run out of the house to get some. My main problem now is the pistachios, and I was thinking that I " m eating high calorie foods (like hamburgers with all the toppings) until I'm full. When I lose weight, I need to stay within a 1200 calorie structure no matter what, even if I am to maintain it, and I'm just not ready for it yet. By the way, the jumping into the ice cream, candy, and chips phase is gone, and has been gone for a while. I no longer feel the need to pig out on these items at the house. I don't keep chips because I no longer really like them, although for years I'd get them and eat them. Same with pretzels. All those items I used to get and pig out on. The need is gone

[Guest guest]

Sandy, it isn't that I center on calories right now; in fact, just the opposite. I'm not centering on it at all. But I am well aware that in order for me to lose weight, I must eat very few calories, this was my trouble dieting, I cannot diet and will not diet, and I know what I'm taking in now without counting. I'm not counting at all. I'm eating the IE way, there is no other way for me right now, but I am also well aware that despite my following IE principles I am not going to lose weight if I keep choosing the foods I am choosing. I'm not sure I'll gain weight, but since I'm not weighing myself, I will only be able to tell by the way my clothes fit. I believe more soul searching is in order for me. Thanks again, you always give an upbuilding answer, Sandy. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 7:09 PMSubject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Tai calories: Hard not to think of calories when we have been doing it for so long and all the ads and diet programs that focus on it. Sandy

Sandy and Jane - Thanks for the warnings for me to not think of calories. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 4:51 PM

Subject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Tai, losing weight. It is sometimes a gray line between losing weight and IE I think. I think that I need to get away from the calorie counting and put my focus on eating when I am hungry and stopping when I am full. And learning to notice when I am eating emotionally(yes, boredom is an emotion). I think much of my eating is when I am bored or don't know what to do with myself. I have lots of things to do, even fun things, but for whatever reason I resist. I can come up with lots of excuses(especially the " I'm too tired" one). Sandy

Hi, Jane. I really do want to lose weight, but i don't want to diet, and I recognize that I'm eating way too many calories even now for me to lose weight. Yet I want to work the IE principle and not diet. Does this make sense? I hope so. Remember we're talking about using our own thinking as well as the principles others have discovered. If I could eat fewer calories without experiencing pain, I would do it, but obviously i can't and that's why I'm "on" IE. I love IE, I'm not counting calories, but I also know that I'm probably eating way too much for me to lose weight and may

even gain weight. Not that I'm overly anxious about this. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 2:43 PM

Subject: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

To me, IE means never having to count calories again. So your post was a bit jarring. But then I remembered that last night I found myself automatically adding up the calories in the 300 calorie broiled cheese sandwich I was making. Old habits die hard! Jane> >>> >> Today was a

leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets don't work and how we should handle desserts and other "problem" foods.> >> > >> "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies" by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter, blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's a quote from page 96: "Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection." They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with them. They do admit

that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a healthy way.> >> > >> "How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More" by Antonello, on the other hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine cycle. On page 50, she wrote, "People's bodies make them and keep them fat because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss efforts." She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar "real foods" and allowing oneself "pleasure foods" only once or twice a month.> >> > >> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually, attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will

produce.> >> > >> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the truth to them.> >> > >> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the "experts" and their rants.> >> > >> Jane> >>> >> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Well, Sandy, I have two choices now. One is that I can eat more from dinner because the memory of some of it remains with me and my mouth is watering. Or I can refrain. Which shall it be? Which door will the lady open? I think I know. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:02 PMSubject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Tai, calories: Well I just finished 2 pieces of cake. That's one of those things I still think I never should have bought. It was buy one get one and I have a potluck dinner coming up. So I convinced myself I could buy them for that and would leave them alone. I ate about a third/half of the first one and then threw the rest out. It didn't taste as good anymore anyway. But then tonight I got into the second one and I am very uncomfortable. Maybe I will be able to throw this one out too. And like you I didn't count calories, just know I ate too many, especially sugar. Sandy

Sandy, it isn't that I center on calories right now; in fact, just the opposite. I'm not centering on it at all. But I am well aware that in order for me to lose weight, I must eat very few calories, this was my trouble dieting, I cannot diet and will not diet, and I know what I'm taking in now without counting. I'm not counting at all. I'm eating the IE way, there is no other way for me right now,

but I am also well aware that despite my following IE principles I am not going to lose weight if I keep choosing the foods I am choosing. I'm not sure I'll gain weight, but since I'm not weighing myself, I will only be able to tell by the way my clothes fit. I believe more soul searching is in order for me. Thanks again, you always give an upbuilding answer, Sandy.

Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Tai calories: Hard not to think of calories when we have been doing it for so long and all the ads and diet programs that focus on it. Sandy

Sandy and Jane - Thanks for the warnings for me to not think of calories. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 4:51 PM

Subject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Tai, losing weight. It is sometimes a gray line between losing weight and IE I think. I think that I need to get away from the calorie counting and put my focus on eating when I am hungry and stopping when I am full. And learning to notice when I am eating emotionally(yes, boredom is an emotion). I think much of my eating is when I am bored or don't know what to do with myself. I have lots of things to do, even fun things, but for whatever reason I resist. I can come up with lots of excuses(especially the " I'm too tired" one). Sandy

Hi, Jane. I really do want to lose weight, but i don't want to diet, and I recognize that I'm eating way too many calories even now for me to lose weight. Yet I want to work the IE principle and not diet. Does this make sense? I hope so. Remember we're talking about using our own thinking as well as the principles others have discovered. If I could eat fewer calories without experiencing pain, I would do it, but obviously i can't and that's why I'm "on" IE. I love IE, I'm not counting calories, but I also know that I'm probably eating way too much for me to lose weight and may

even gain weight. Not that I'm overly anxious about this. Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 2:43 PM

Subject: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

To me, IE means never having to count calories again. So your post was a bit jarring. But then I remembered that last night I found myself automatically adding up the calories in the 300 calorie broiled cheese sandwich I was making. Old habits die hard! Jane> >>> >> Today was a

leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets don't work and how we should handle desserts and other "problem" foods.> >> > >> "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies" by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter, blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's a quote from page 96: "Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection." They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with them. They do admit

that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a healthy way.> >> > >> "How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More" by Antonello, on the other hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine cycle. On page 50, she wrote, "People's bodies make them and keep them fat because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss efforts." She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar "real foods" and allowing oneself "pleasure foods" only once or twice a month.> >> > >> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually, attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will

produce.> >> > >> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the truth to them.> >> > >> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the "experts" and their rants.> >> > >> Jane> >>> >> >> >> >>

[Guest guest]

It happens, Sandy. So you bought the cakes for the potluck dinner and then ate a

good portion of them? I guess next time you won't buy them so far in advance?

:-) Just thinking here. I knew I was treading on dangerous ground when I asked

my husband to buy me some vegetable fried rice when I suggested he buy some food

there for himself. Sho' nuff I was walking on dangerous ground. yesssss

tonight I thought about making my own fried rice in the future, but I know that

ain't gonna happen, so there must be a better way. Because the smallest amt

this restaurant sells is a pint and you guessed it. I ate that Plus more. While

I am not sick, the thoughtfully satisfied feeling fled out the door. Tomorrow,

they say, is another day to (sigh) face food. Fortunately I don't want anything

else right now, but as they say, the night is young. I ain't dieting though.

Not going to diet. I think a song is coming up. (I occasionally write songs.)

" Not gonna diet any

more...Not gonna diet any more ... " (with the choir clapping their hands) and

so forth. I won't go on. :-) Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support

Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:02 PM

Subject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Tai, calories:  Well I just finished 2 pieces of cake.  That's one of those

things I still think I never should have bought.  It was buy one get one and I

have a potluck dinner coming up.  So I convinced myself I could buy them for

that and would leave them alone.  I ate about a third/half of the first one and

then threw the rest out.  It didn't taste as good anymore anyway.  But then

tonight I got into the second one and I am very uncomfortable. Maybe I will be

able to throw this one out too. And like you I didn't count calories, just know

I ate too many, especially sugar.  Sandy

>Sandy, it isn't that I center on calories right now; in fact, just the

opposite. I'm not centering on it at all. But I am well aware that in order for

me to lose weight, I must eat very few calories, this was my trouble dieting, I

cannot diet and will not diet, and I know what I'm taking in now without

counting. I'm not counting at all. I'm eating the IE way, there is no other way

for me right now, but I am also well aware that despite my following IE

principles I am not going to lose weight if I keep choosing the foods I am

choosing. I'm not sure I'll gain weight, but since I'm not weighing myself, I

will only be able to tell by the way my clothes fit. I believe more soul

searching is in order for me. Thanks again, you always give an  upbuilding

answer, Sandy. Tai

>

>

>

>

>To: IntuitiveEating_Support

>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 7:09 PM

>

>Subject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

>

>

>

> 

>Tai calories: Hard not to think of calories when we have been doing it for so

long and all the ads and diet programs that focus on it.  Sandy

>

>

>

>

> 

>>Sandy and Jane - Thanks for the warnings for me to not think of calories. Tai

>>

>> 

>>

>>

>>To: IntuitiveEating_Support

>>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 4:51 PM

>>

>>Subject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

>>

>>

>>

>> 

>>Tai, losing weight. It is sometimes a gray line between losing weight and IE I

think.  I think that I need to get away from the calorie counting and put my

focus on eating when I am hungry and stopping when I am full. And learning to

notice when I am eating emotionally(yes, boredom is an emotion).  I think much

of my eating is when I am bored or don't know what to do with myself.  I have

lots of things to do, even fun things, but for whatever reason I resist.  I can

come up with lots of excuses(especially the " I'm too tired " one). Sandy

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> 

>>>Hi, Jane. I really do want to lose weight, but i don't want to diet, and I

recognize that I'm eating way too many calories even now for me to lose weight.

Yet I want to work the IE principle and not diet. Does this make sense? I hope

so. Remember we're talking about using our own thinking as well as the

principles others have discovered. If I could eat fewer calories without

experiencing pain, I would do it, but obviously i can't and that's why I'm " on "

IE. I love IE, I'm not counting calories, but I also know that I'm probably

eating way too much for me to lose weight and may even gain weight. Not that I'm

overly anxious about this. Tai

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>To: IntuitiveEating_Support

>>>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 2:43 PM

>>>

>>>Subject: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> 

>>>To me, IE means never having to count calories again. So your post was a bit

jarring. But then I remembered that last night I found myself automatically

adding up the calories in the 300 calorie broiled cheese sandwich I was making.

Old habits die hard! Jane

>>>

>>>

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type

reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets

don't work and how we should handle desserts and other " problem " foods.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> " When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies " by Jane Hirschmann and Carol

Munter, blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors.

Here's a quote from page 96: " Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you

are not okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need

protection. " They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society

again women and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal

with our emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves

that treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of

all our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves

with them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but

believe it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in

a healthy way.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> " How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More " by Antonello, on the

other hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and

famine cycle. On page 50, she wrote, " People's bodies make them and keep them

fat because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns

create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss

efforts. " She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar " real

foods " and allowing oneself " pleasure foods " only once or twice a month.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one

is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually,

attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions

of the truth to them.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet

tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and

satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the " experts "

and their rants.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Jane

>>>> >>

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

   

[Guest guest]

Tai, cakes: Thanks. Yeah it happens.  I liked your humor and song.  I still have a conflict between no forbidden foods and not being able to have them in the house, revert to " no will power "   mentality. I think for now there are some things I will choose to keep out of the house.  I do have a lot of foods that I just don't care for anymore and could probably have them in the house without eating them, but why bother.  It's not like I have to have anything on hand for someone else.  I think I will try to go to bed at a reasonable hour tonight.  I see it is pretty late already.  I got up early today to go to my grandson's open house. The other day I was sleeping soundly when a loud noise woke me up.  I think it was a tree branch falling on my roof.  No damage except disrupted sleep.  Tomorrow is a new day.  Sandy

 

It happens, Sandy. So you bought the cakes for the potluck dinner and then ate a good portion of them? I guess next time you won't buy them so far in advance? :-) Just thinking here. I knew I was treading on dangerous ground when I asked my husband to buy me some vegetable fried rice when I suggested he buy some food there for himself. Sho' nuff I was walking on dangerous ground. yesssss tonight I thought about making my own fried rice in the future, but I know that ain't gonna happen, so there must be a better way. Because the smallest amt this restaurant sells is a pint and you guessed it. I ate that Plus more. While I am not sick, the thoughtfully satisfied feeling fled out the door. Tomorrow, they say, is another day to (sigh) face food. Fortunately I don't want anything else right now, but as they say, the night is young. I ain't dieting though. Not going to diet. I think a song is coming up. (I occasionally write songs.) " Not gonna diet any

more...Not gonna diet any more ... " (with the choir clapping their hands) and so forth. I won't go on. :-) Tai

To: IntuitiveEating_Support

Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:02 PM

Subject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

Tai, calories:  Well I just finished 2 pieces of cake.  That's one of those things I still think I never should have bought.  It was buy one get one and I have a potluck dinner coming up.  So I convinced myself I could buy them for that and would leave them alone.  I ate about a third/half of the first one and then threw the rest out.  It didn't taste as good anymore anyway.  But then tonight I got into the second one and I am very uncomfortable. Maybe I will be able to throw this one out too. And like you I didn't count calories, just know I ate too many, especially sugar.  Sandy

>Sandy, it isn't that I center on calories right now; in fact, just the opposite. I'm not centering on it at all. But I am well aware that in order for me to lose weight, I must eat very few calories, this was my trouble dieting, I cannot diet and will not diet, and I know what I'm taking in now without counting. I'm not counting at all. I'm eating the IE way, there is no other way for me right now, but I am also well aware that despite my following IE principles I am not going to lose weight if I keep choosing the foods I am choosing. I'm not sure I'll gain weight, but since I'm not weighing myself, I will only be able to tell by the way my clothes fit. I believe more soul searching is in order for me. Thanks again, you always give an  upbuilding answer, Sandy. Tai

>

>

>

>

>To: IntuitiveEating_Support

>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 7:09 PM

>

>Subject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

>

>

>

> 

>Tai calories: Hard not to think of calories when we have been doing it for so long and all the ads and diet programs that focus on it.  Sandy

>

>

>

>

> 

>>Sandy and Jane - Thanks for the warnings for me to not think of calories. Tai

>>

>> 

>>

>>

>>To: IntuitiveEating_Support

>>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 4:51 PM

>>

>>Subject: Re: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

>>

>>

>>

>> 

>>Tai, losing weight. It is sometimes a gray line between losing weight and IE I think.  I think that I need to get away from the calorie counting and put my focus on eating when I am hungry and stopping when I am full. And learning to notice when I am eating emotionally(yes, boredom is an emotion).  I think much of my eating is when I am bored or don't know what to do with myself.  I have lots of things to do, even fun things, but for whatever reason I resist.  I can come up with lots of excuses(especially the " I'm too tired " one). Sandy

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> 

>>>Hi, Jane. I really do want to lose weight, but i don't want to diet, and I recognize that I'm eating way too many calories even now for me to lose weight. Yet I want to work the IE principle and not diet. Does this make sense? I hope so. Remember we're talking about using our own thinking as well as the principles others have discovered. If I could eat fewer calories without experiencing pain, I would do it, but obviously i can't and that's why I'm " on " IE. I love IE, I'm not counting calories, but I also know that I'm probably eating way too much for me to lose weight and may even gain weight. Not that I'm overly anxious about this. Tai

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>To: IntuitiveEating_Support

>>>Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 2:43 PM

>>>

>>>Subject: Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> 

>>>To me, IE means never having to count calories again. So your post was a bit jarring. But then I remembered that last night I found myself automatically adding up the calories in the 300 calorie broiled cheese sandwich I was making. Old habits die hard! Jane

>>>

>>>

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets don't work and how we should handle desserts and other " problem " foods.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> " When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies " by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter, blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's a quote from page 96: " Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection. " They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a healthy way.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> " How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More " by Antonello, on the other hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine cycle. On page 50, she wrote, " People's bodies make them and keep them fat because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss efforts. " She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar " real foods " and allowing oneself " pleasure foods " only once or twice a month.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually, attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the truth to them.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the " experts " and their rants.

>>>> >>

>>>> >> Jane

>>>> >>

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>> >

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>