Re: The Experts Disagree - As Usual

[Guest guest]

Jane, I've noticed this discrepancy before. Geneen Roth wrote that we should

fill our homes with foods that we love, while other experts on intuitive eaters

say to keep them out of the house--out of sight, out of mind. I think something

that we can take from all this is intuitive eating is about listening to

ourselves, not the experts all the time. I think it really boils down to a

personality thing. Like for me it helps to have some foods around and available,

and it minimizes my desire to eat them, but other foods I'd probably eat all the

time if they were around!

>

> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type

reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets

don't work and how we should handle desserts and other " problem " foods.

>

> " When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies " by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter,

blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's

a quote from page 96: " Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not

okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection. "

They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women

and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our

emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that

treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all

our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with

them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe

it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a

healthy way.

>

> " How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More " by Antonello, on the other

hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine

cycle. On page 50, she wrote, " People's bodies make them and keep them fat

because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns

create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss

efforts. " She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar " real

foods " and allowing oneself " pleasure foods " only once or twice a month.

>

> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is

satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually,

attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

>

> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the

truth to them.

>

> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet

tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and

satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the

" experts " and their rants.

>

> Jane

>

[Guest guest]

Jane, I've noticed this discrepancy before. Geneen Roth wrote that we should

fill our homes with foods that we love, while other experts on intuitive eaters

say to keep them out of the house--out of sight, out of mind. I think something

that we can take from all this is intuitive eating is about listening to

ourselves, not the experts all the time. I think it really boils down to a

personality thing. Like for me it helps to have some foods around and available,

and it minimizes my desire to eat them, but other foods I'd probably eat all the

time if they were around!

>

> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type

reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets

don't work and how we should handle desserts and other " problem " foods.

>

> " When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies " by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter,

blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's

a quote from page 96: " Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not

okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection. "

They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women

and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our

emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that

treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all

our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with

them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe

it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a

healthy way.

>

> " How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More " by Antonello, on the other

hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine

cycle. On page 50, she wrote, " People's bodies make them and keep them fat

because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns

create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss

efforts. " She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar " real

foods " and allowing oneself " pleasure foods " only once or twice a month.

>

> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is

satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually,

attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

>

> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the

truth to them.

>

> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet

tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and

satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the

" experts " and their rants.

>

> Jane

>

[Guest guest]

Jane, I've noticed this discrepancy before. Geneen Roth wrote that we should

fill our homes with foods that we love, while other experts on intuitive eaters

say to keep them out of the house--out of sight, out of mind. I think something

that we can take from all this is intuitive eating is about listening to

ourselves, not the experts all the time. I think it really boils down to a

personality thing. Like for me it helps to have some foods around and available,

and it minimizes my desire to eat them, but other foods I'd probably eat all the

time if they were around!

>

> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type

reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets

don't work and how we should handle desserts and other " problem " foods.

>

> " When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies " by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter,

blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's

a quote from page 96: " Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not

okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection. "

They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women

and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our

emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that

treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all

our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with

them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe

it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a

healthy way.

>

> " How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More " by Antonello, on the other

hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine

cycle. On page 50, she wrote, " People's bodies make them and keep them fat

because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns

create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss

efforts. " She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar " real

foods " and allowing oneself " pleasure foods " only once or twice a month.

>

> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is

satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually,

attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

>

> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the

truth to them.

>

> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet

tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and

satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the

" experts " and their rants.

>

> Jane

>

[Guest guest]

Risha,

My personal decision has been to always have 2 or 3 treats available, but not

out in plain sight. And while I might buy them at Costco in the rather large

packages they sell there, I see no point in buying mega-quantities. I already

have a very full kitchen and I'd like to reduce that clutter, not add to it.

The surprise has been that these treat items are taking a LONG time to get eaten

- except when one of my sons finds the stash.

Jane

>

> Jane, I've noticed this discrepancy before. Geneen Roth wrote that we should

fill our homes with foods that we love, while other experts on intuitive eaters

say to keep them out of the house--out of sight, out of mind. I think something

that we can take from all this is intuitive eating is about listening to

ourselves, not the experts all the time. I think it really boils down to a

personality thing. Like for me it helps to have some foods around and available,

and it minimizes my desire to eat them, but other foods I'd probably eat all the

time if they were around!

[Guest guest]

Risha,

My personal decision has been to always have 2 or 3 treats available, but not

out in plain sight. And while I might buy them at Costco in the rather large

packages they sell there, I see no point in buying mega-quantities. I already

have a very full kitchen and I'd like to reduce that clutter, not add to it.

The surprise has been that these treat items are taking a LONG time to get eaten

- except when one of my sons finds the stash.

Jane

>

> Jane, I've noticed this discrepancy before. Geneen Roth wrote that we should

fill our homes with foods that we love, while other experts on intuitive eaters

say to keep them out of the house--out of sight, out of mind. I think something

that we can take from all this is intuitive eating is about listening to

ourselves, not the experts all the time. I think it really boils down to a

personality thing. Like for me it helps to have some foods around and available,

and it minimizes my desire to eat them, but other foods I'd probably eat all the

time if they were around!

[Guest guest]

Risha,

My personal decision has been to always have 2 or 3 treats available, but not

out in plain sight. And while I might buy them at Costco in the rather large

packages they sell there, I see no point in buying mega-quantities. I already

have a very full kitchen and I'd like to reduce that clutter, not add to it.

The surprise has been that these treat items are taking a LONG time to get eaten

- except when one of my sons finds the stash.

Jane

>

> Jane, I've noticed this discrepancy before. Geneen Roth wrote that we should

fill our homes with foods that we love, while other experts on intuitive eaters

say to keep them out of the house--out of sight, out of mind. I think something

that we can take from all this is intuitive eating is about listening to

ourselves, not the experts all the time. I think it really boils down to a

personality thing. Like for me it helps to have some foods around and available,

and it minimizes my desire to eat them, but other foods I'd probably eat all the

time if they were around!

[Guest guest]

Jane, great post. Summing it up, that's why I question and challenge others when I don't understand something. It does not make me the most popular person in the world. I looked at "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies," and found that I didn't want to read all the information about why we are, as women, pressed into this image, etc. I already knew that as I got older, but it may be important for those who do not understand the hollywood and advertising hype pushed on society. I'm glad you said what you did, because I think I'm the only one hating all those books with different opinions, etc. And explanations and theories. Yes, diets are premised on the idea that we are not satisfactory. Obviously. Before I read your post I had written that I found it true, however, that eating as much of forbidden food as I

wanted did help me in the long run. In the short run, it caused me to gain weight, but as I said, less quickly than if I had gone on "binges" in the past. I no longer desire those once forbidden foods as binge foods. I can take them in the house upon occasion and not be particularly frightened by them. It's quite a release. Since I learned it as a premise, I decided to reluctantly try it. And after my fear of trying it, I did try it, and found it worked. For me, that is.I never believed the biological feast or famine cycle, but I'm not saying it's not true. I just never believed it. I do believe, however, to my chagrin, that when we DO gain more weight than what is good for our bodies we develop fat cells which never go away. I believe they can be taught to be in remission and that is what I'm working on now. I hope I succeed in this. Let us remember that very big people can eat enormous amounts of food at each meal and in between. Much more than the normal eater, who would eat perhaps between 1200 and 2000 calories a day, depending on various factors. If a person coping with habitual overeating could fill "one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar "real foods" and allowing oneself "pleasure foods" only once or twice a month," we would have no problems with our weight, I suppose. Currently I have no intention of eating pleasure foods once or twice a month, in fact, that pretty much sounds like a diet (restrictive) to me, and that is why I'm here and not on a diet. Diets have never worked in the long run for me.

You aptly said, "Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one

is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually, attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce." Certainly any method a person can employ that works for them is the ideal. But now we are learning, as you say, what works for ourselves and each person is different. Take care, thanks for your post, I enjoyed it. Tai

[Guest guest]

Jane, great post. Summing it up, that's why I question and challenge others when I don't understand something. It does not make me the most popular person in the world. I looked at "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies," and found that I didn't want to read all the information about why we are, as women, pressed into this image, etc. I already knew that as I got older, but it may be important for those who do not understand the hollywood and advertising hype pushed on society. I'm glad you said what you did, because I think I'm the only one hating all those books with different opinions, etc. And explanations and theories. Yes, diets are premised on the idea that we are not satisfactory. Obviously. Before I read your post I had written that I found it true, however, that eating as much of forbidden food as I

wanted did help me in the long run. In the short run, it caused me to gain weight, but as I said, less quickly than if I had gone on "binges" in the past. I no longer desire those once forbidden foods as binge foods. I can take them in the house upon occasion and not be particularly frightened by them. It's quite a release. Since I learned it as a premise, I decided to reluctantly try it. And after my fear of trying it, I did try it, and found it worked. For me, that is.I never believed the biological feast or famine cycle, but I'm not saying it's not true. I just never believed it. I do believe, however, to my chagrin, that when we DO gain more weight than what is good for our bodies we develop fat cells which never go away. I believe they can be taught to be in remission and that is what I'm working on now. I hope I succeed in this. Let us remember that very big people can eat enormous amounts of food at each meal and in between. Much more than the normal eater, who would eat perhaps between 1200 and 2000 calories a day, depending on various factors. If a person coping with habitual overeating could fill "one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar "real foods" and allowing oneself "pleasure foods" only once or twice a month," we would have no problems with our weight, I suppose. Currently I have no intention of eating pleasure foods once or twice a month, in fact, that pretty much sounds like a diet (restrictive) to me, and that is why I'm here and not on a diet. Diets have never worked in the long run for me.

You aptly said, "Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one

is satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually, attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce." Certainly any method a person can employ that works for them is the ideal. But now we are learning, as you say, what works for ourselves and each person is different. Take care, thanks for your post, I enjoyed it. Tai

[Guest guest]

To me, IE means never having to count calories again. So your post was a bit

jarring. But then I remembered that last night I found myself automatically

adding up the calories in the 300 calorie broiled cheese sandwich I was making.

Old habits die hard! Jane

> >>

> >> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type

reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets

don't work and how we should handle desserts and other " problem " foods.

> >>

> >> " When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies " by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter,

blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's

a quote from page 96: " Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not

okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection. "

They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women

and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our

emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that

treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all

our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with

them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe

it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a

healthy way.

> >>

> >> " How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More " by Antonello, on the

other hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and

famine cycle. On page 50, she wrote, " People's bodies make them and keep them

fat because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns

create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss

efforts. " She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar " real

foods " and allowing oneself " pleasure foods " only once or twice a month.

> >>

> >> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is

satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually,

attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

> >>

> >> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of

the truth to them.

> >>

> >> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet

tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and

satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the

" experts " and their rants.

> >>

> >> Jane

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

A plus factor that I grant to Hirschmann and Munter is that their ideas formed

up after many years interacting with many women regarding this issue - food,

eating and body image. There seems to be a grain of truth to what Antonello says

in that if it wasn't a good idea to pack on fat for survival purposes, our

bodies most likely wouldn't do that. We just currently live in time of excess

and over ease in obtaining foods. Antonello's ideas drip of restriction and

blame to me.

Katcha

IEing since March 2007

>

> Today was a leisurely at-home day and I decided to finish some IE-type

reading. I had two books and amusingly, they disagreed strongly on why diets

don't work and how we should handle desserts and other " problem " foods.

>

> " When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies " by Jane Hirschmann and Carol Munter,

blamed the majority of the problem with diets on psychological factors. Here's

a quote from page 96: " Every diet is premised on two beliefs: that you are not

okay the way you are and that food is an enemy from which you need protection. "

They spend well over 300 pages detailing all the wrongs of society again women

and how basically, we just need to learn to love ourselves and deal with our

emotions without food. They say in order to learn to trust ourselves that

treats will always be available, we should buy massively more quantities of all

our former binge foods than we could possibly eat and surround ourselves with

them. They do admit that we'll likely gain a good deal of weight, but believe

it is a required step before we can possibly learn to relate to food in a

healthy way.

>

> " How to Become Naturally Thin By Eating More " by Antonello, on the other

hand, believes diets cause obesity directly by a biological feast and famine

cycle. On page 50, she wrote, " People's bodies make them and keep them fat

because of their maladaptive eating patterns. These faulty eating patterns

create a physical need for fat accumulation that overrides all weightloss

efforts. " She advocates filling one's kitchen with low-fat, low-sugar " real

foods " and allowing oneself " pleasure foods " only once or twice a month.

>

> Yet both books advocate waiting until one is hungry and eating until one is

satisfied. Both discuss the peace with food and our bodies, and eventually,

attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, which this method will produce.

>

> Personally, I hated both these books. They probably both have portions of the

truth to them.

>

> Seems like some authors want to psychoanalyze and some want to add diet

tricks, but the basics are simply listening to our bodies' signals of hunger and

satisfaction. Think I'll stick with that internal focus and ignore the

" experts " and their rants.

>

> Jane

>