Re: Re: Wheat and b-12

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I was thinking that maybe there was something in vitamin C itself that helps to breakdown that mucus (which might explain why citrus is able to do that). When I first started biomed with Tom, I started with a multivitamin and then vitamin C. The reason why I chose C first is because Tom's pedi refused to run a single test for me and I had not yet found a dan. I was new to the world of biomed and had no clue what had caused or was causing my kid's issues. C is a great antioxidant, it's a natural chelator and as you mentioned, , it aids in the uptake of B vitamins. It's also water soluble so there was less worry of overdosing him since I had no guidance from a doc. He had an awful lingering cough that stayed with him all winter and

into the spring. Then the "pocs" appeared. Along with the PDD dx, he had also been diagnosed with ADHD, and I had learned enough to know that vitamin C and B vitamins we required for stablizing seratonin and dopamine levels. This kid was sick, so C seemed like a common sense (and safe) place to start. God was with me, because it helped an awful lot. I was not aware of his wheat issue at that time and wonder now if the C was helping with that, as well. Let me also say, that as the cough and pocs vanished, the adhd symptoms vanished as well.

We haven't started the 5mthf yet. The only folate he's gotten is from his multivite and the bcomplex he used to take. I'm still tweeking the sacch b which we may ditch altogether. After that's squared away, I'll give the 5mthf a shot. We don't do the high C all the time now. We used to until we found the dan and scrapped everything to start fresh. So the C is a sometimes thing. The fiGLU shows either low b12 or low folate -- since the 12 didn't look like it was doing much, we stopped and he told me to add the folate. Which I will. But now I know what to look out for as we proceed. I think once we manage to get completely wheat free here, I'll give the b12 another try in light of all this new info. I'm def. going to pass that along to the dan...

As far as Tom tolerating B's, he had a hard time the first couple times at it. But the third time was a charm...I don't know if it was a matter of finding a complex with higher b6 and biotin or just coicindence, but he did better the third time. I miss the B6, we're going back to it. I am more curious about intolerance for other people's sake because we see it here so often. There's gotta be a reason. Especially with these kids who refuse to eat and you know they're not getting any thorugh their diet. I'm guessing if the body isn't equipped to utilize it correctly and its floating around unused, it can make them bonkers. (I think McCandless gets into that a little). Tom is not anemic. I was when I was pregnant with him and I had a hard time tolerating the supplement....I wonder if that plays a part in his issues.

....and don't ever worry about confusing me. I've spent my entire life confused. It's not so bad, really : )

-Tammy

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 11:17:35 PMSubject: Re: Wheat and b-12

I know that -- also -- (not to confuse things) -- but, Vitamin C increases the 'excretion' of Folic Acid. -- if you are just doing the 5mthf (which is the bio-available folic acid, right?), it could also mean that he is getting 'too much' folic acid too, and the excretion of it, helps. ??Then again, Vitamin C and Histidine help with Iron uptake. (Is he anemic?) - I am assuming that FiGLU means too much histidine? (maybe that's why Vitamin C works well) If he doesn't do well with B supplements -- I would try the naturals -- like royal jelly or bee pollen.Vitamin C also helps with all the uptake of the B Vitamins. BOy, I am full of it tonight...I'm trying not to confuse you, and I think I am doing that. :)I know what you mean, there is a lot out there. It's overwhelming...so I try (my best) to simplify it....I don't always do a great job of it! laura > >> > recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the breakdown/digestion > >> > of wheat?> > > > -Tammy> >>

[Guest guest]

You know, that makes very good sense! I probably haven't stopped to consider the source of most of these supplements as much as I should.

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 11:56:07 PMSubject: Re: Re: Wheat and b-12

>>I'm trying to figure out why some people have such a difficult time with B supplements...even when they may test as deficient. And I wonder if the reaction is with supplements only or if they notice behaviors or physical symptoms if their kids eat foods high in B's. Not sure if this applies, but my ND was saying that Maia may have reacted to the B-complex solution because we had done another food intolerance test ontop of the igg and it came back that Maia is intolerant to potatoes. The ND said that most general B vits are derived from potatoes and that it is a possible reason why Maia reacted so strongly to the b-complex solution. I pulled potatoes from her diet a few months ago (I'm trying everything I can to stop the chronic loose stools and actually have an appointment with our DAN tomorrow to look into abx treatment for it). However, since pulling potatoes, the

stools have generally gotten a little less loose and I can get good stools on some days now, although not consistently.

....so I've been doing a little snooping into this wheat/b12 thing and the mucus that you speak of. And it's interesting stuff. Now I'm starting to wonder if that's why Tom is such a HUGE responder to vitamin c...because citrus will help break down that mucus....there might be a connection there somewhere. I also talked to his dan about why he suggested 5mthf even though we've ditched the B12. His FiGLU results came back high. Which, I don't how much people here have dug into that, but THAT led me to something else to add to the list of things-to-learn. Apparently, we have to be very careful with folate because it can "mask" a b12 deficiency and/or it can worsen a b12 deficiency that already exisits. I'm not sure if it can CAUSE one, per se, but I'll dig for more. I'm trying to figure out why some people have such a difficult

time with B supplements...even when they may test as deficient. And I wonder if the reaction is with supplements only or if they notice behaviors or physical symptoms if their kids eat foods high in B's. I'm so all over the place lately...I have to pick ONE thing and learn about it. But it's like opening Pandora's box. sheesh!-Tammy

To: mb12 valtrex Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 2:02:32 PMSubject: Re: Wheat and b-12

I didn't know if you saw my post about 'mucus' -- here is a little excerpt from a web page I found (ascertaining the same type things I had read) ..."Not all mucus is bad. Healthy mucus is a clear, slippery, lubricating secretion, used to protect mucus membranes along the digestive, respiratory, urinary and reproductive tracts. Unhealthy mucus is cloudy, thick, and sticky. Mucus is secreted to stop irritants, pollutants, or carcinogenic compounds, created by putrefying, undigested food residues. It's like a blanket of protection. Certain foods such as milk and bread cause an increase of mucus secretions. These foods have large protein molecules (casein and gluten) which are difficult to digest and are more prone to putrefaction, and may be toxic or an irritant to the body. For many, bread and milk cause sinus congestion."here is the full version: (it's wicked informative!)

http://www.freedomyou.com/nutrition_book/mucus.htmessentially, removing wheat/milk removes the 'mucus' factor, and allows vitamins to be taken up by the villi in the intestines. The Uptake of B12 is in the ileum, when it's covered with 'mucus' -- the body can't get it and therefore, the body doesn't get it. Hence the removal of foods containing 'milk and wheat' -- will decrease the 'mucus factor' and therefore, allow the body to perform these functions. When you take 'digestive' enzymes, it might help break it down, but it doesn't stop the mucus from being created. (Because it's the proteins that signal the body to create the mucus in the first place)...(I hope this makes sense.) A lot of times zinc is required to maintain healthy levels of HCL in the stomach (also used to help break down milk and wheat) and when it's low (HCL) the body doesn't break it down well, and then it's on to the intestines. (where

you guessed it...it still sticky and gluey)If you have 'inflammation' chances are you have a deficiency in a vitamins. If you have 'allergies' or 'intolerance' to foods, chances are you have a deficiency in vitamins/minerals, etc. When you remove the barriers, the vitamins/minerals can be removed from foods in the intestines, and the uptake will happen. I hope this helps. laura Let me know if you need more. (or if I didn't get at what you were looking for...IYKWIM?)Yesterday we gave Jimmy a 'wheat' cracker at a party he went to. He seemed fine. That night during his bath, we both noticed his "eczema" spot, in full force (bright red!) -- we have not seen it since last time he accidentally got a wheat cracker. (a couple of wheat crackers, and not many). He didn't have any 'issues' with it, but the eczema spot tells me that, his body doesn't want it. It was an easy decision, no wheat, not for a long time. We also tested

grapes. No melt downs...yet. >> recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the breakdown/digestion > of wheat?> > -Tammy>

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I forget the precise reason now -- but people with oxalate issues can't do Vit C.  I think it makes more oxalates?  Maybe Toni would know better the exact reason.  I had to stop Vit C for Maia.  She's going through another oxalate dump right now. 

 

Funny you mention that 'had a hard time with supps during pregnancy' -- I did too. I threw them up as soon as I took them. I sought to find a supp that would allow me to keep it down. (all three pregnancies) -- I ended up with the New Chapter Organic Prenatal Vitamins. It was THE only one I have ever managed to keep down. I stopped trying others as it seemed pointless and a waste of money.

I had actually thought Rob might benefit from this vitamin as he too has a hard time with the 'smell' of vitamins and supplements --which is why we do liquids mostly. Alberta's thoughts on the subject make me wonder as Rob doesn't do well on Potatoes either (although they did not show up on his IGg) as I found he tends to be absent minded, or thoughts just don't connect when he eats them. I noticed it one night removed them for 30 days, and then reintroduced them..and got the same result. I believe white potatoes are high oxalate and Rob doesn't do high oxalates well at all. He thrives on a low ox diet. I realized this a while a go, I just didn't make the connection to my son about it. Toni did.

I like your 'Vitamin C' thoughts. As I tend to think that way myself, you can't overdose, so what seems to be the harm. When you say 'pocs' -- are talking about like a rash on the cheeks or face? Curious only because Jimmy gets that when he gets hi oxalate foods without his calcium, zinc and mag supplements. Toni actually figured that one out for us, it does wonders for us. -- It also made his ADHD symptoms completely disappear as well. (They were mostly gone, but we saw complete normalcy when we added these separately)

Also, Rob did really well with the B12 nasal spray. He is currently doing shots, but even he has said he likes the nasal spray better. I wonder if it just gets to the brain faster? He also does pops, and sublinquals - he says the shot makes the area sore. *but at least he tried it...His serum B12 is crazy low. That was even doing the shots (and I think I was administering them wrong!) and pops and sublinquals.

And I agree, the blood serum of vitamins is important to look at, because if the adequate resources aren't available, you're right, they hang out -- without transportation. My Doc said, sometimes they are like teenagers without anything to do on a Friday night and find themselves in front of a convenience store, bored and being useless (or wreaking havoc)...hence the 'bonkers'... makes sense. I keep meaning to get her (McCandeless) book.

I did notice that when I started juicing, both Rob and Jimmy seemed to respond to other therapies better/faster. I tended to wonder if the addition of the nutrients was helpful in the 'transport' and utilization. When I started juicing 2 times a day, I noticed Jimmy got just 'better.' -- He seemed on top of his game daily. I also wonder if the rotovirus (you drink it) caused the destruction of his intestinal villi -- because Maddie never got that vaccine. She also can eat and seems to absorb the nutrition, Jimmy seems to struggle in that area still. Maddie also eats Ezekiel bread and breaks it down fine without issues (although there is gluten in there that isn't sprouted) -- Jimmy cannot tolerate it, nor can he break it down. He does eat citrus..so I wonder if that helps as well. (You've got me thinking again...)

I did not know/realize/remember? that B vitamins help with dopamine and seratonin...this actually makes great sense and applicable in our case. Rob seemed to suffer from depression when we got his vitamins compounded, this seemed to disappear. I had added B6 back to Jimmy's mix here about 4 months ago. (I had stopped supplementing because he was waking up a lot at night with nightmares) -- This also seemed to help him tremendously. A reminder to me that just because it didn't work 12 months ago, doesn't mean I shouldn't revisit it...That is why I like this board, they are constantly reminding me that this 'disorder' is dynamic, not static. Changing course is part of the daily decisions we face and the challenge to 'stay the course' or 'abandon ship' -- and you don't know unless you are there to understand the physical and mental signs of which course to take.

OH, and on a last note...

Another thing -- when we gave him a few wheat crackers -- I had mentioned that he didn't get any symptoms other than the eczema spot, I was wrong. He has wet the bed two nights in a row, and this morning he is craving chocolate and sweets.

In the morning he tends to want things that tend to be dense with nutrition (veg drink, eggs, toast, bacon/ham, blueberries, water) and as the day goes on, he wants 'the energy.' and will ask for pineapple juice or his juicer drink that has a lot of fruits in it, noodles, rice, sandwiches, his B12 pop, etc. -- and at dinner he just likes 'broccoli' with salt and olive oil or green beans, squash, or a little chicken and lots of veggies. His night time meal tends to be small...as his huge meals are at the start of his day. (Cheryl had written about having dinner for breakfast or not tending to worry about what was 'expected' for each meal--that's what she should blog about!...)

My Mom used to have this 'sign' on her wall next to her mirror that said " no enemy would dare bomb this place and end this confusion. " -- I have it next to mine...it reminds me that the less I become confused the more I become a meaningful opponent in this challenge. And I've lived the first (almost) 40 years of my life either completely confused, or a formidable opponent. Confusion can be like a smoke break for me..as I can breath in and out and remind myself that it's like anything else, you have to 'get in it's head' and then take it over and organize the crap out of it...this autism SHIT is not easy to do...it's like whack a mole sometimes.. LOL!

Sometimes I wish I could be 'that' person who can wander around aimlessly happy and content in the 'just being.' Maybe when I'm 105. lol!

laura

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> > > recently posted about wheat inhibiting the uptake of b12. Is that in

> > > every circumstance or only when there is a problem with the

> >breakdown/digestion

> >

> > >

> > > of wheat?

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> > > -Tammy

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