Re: Flying monkey Christmas card from aunt

[Guest guest]

Aunt C sounds like an enabler. From the time I was very young around 10 or so, I

could see how my fada manipulated his brothers and sisters and how they enabled

him. When I was in high school I would beg them not to enable him but they did

it any way. Fada is a pathetic waif of an old man. He lives with us for now, but

he is so mentally ill I don't know how long he will be staying. If you have not

read Surviving the Borderline Parent please put it on your list. This book has

helped me immensely. I feel sorry for my Fada and when I moved him in with me he

was starving. In the last 17 months I have had to learn not to let the guilt get

to me. My husband says watch the Dog Whisperer and practice the " calm assertive

technique " my family doctor says when my fada makes selfish unreasonable demands

If I feel that I have to give in to the demands do them poorly. He says if he

wants fed, spill the food all over him and miss his mouth. I wish I could NC my

fada and I envy you that you have been able to. I do take strength from every

post on this site and apologize for not responding to each one. I can not tell

you how much it helps to know that I am not alone. I have deep boundaries

between me and fada and if I did not I could not survive with him living here.

It is empowering when they throw a guilt trip at you and you do not succumb to

the guilt. If NC is what you need then by all means maintain the NC, don't let

the enablers grind you down. If the aunts and uncles of the BPD fada's and

nada's had had backbones when we were little maybe the fada'a and nada's might

have sought help.

Stay strong and maintain your commitment to NC. The day is coming when fada goes

to the nursing home and I can implement an LC approach.

Stay strong and healthy and put yourself first!

Kay

>

> Just before Christmas, I got a few Christmas cards from relatives, including

my Aunt C. Thankfully most of my relatives at least understand my fada is

mentally ill, and understand my need to be NC, especially after he disowned me

and dishrag nada wouldn't stand up for me.

>

> But there's a couple of relatives who don't quite understand. I let them bring

it up, because I didn't know how to let them know of the disownment, and Aunt C.

emailed me wondering why I was not talking to my parents. I gave her a basic

rundown of what had happened, without going into the gory details--I didn't want

to be branded a slanderer or anything like that. I was also afraid she wouldn't

believe me, either.

>

> She emailed me back to remind me of my mom's sad story where her parents

disowned her, and how she couldn't talk to her brother (Aunt C's husband) or

sister. She said my mom still regrets what happened (though from what I hear of

her mom, ol' grandma was a nutcase, and I'm glad I had nothing to do with her.)

and Aunt C. told me how hard it is to see mom suffer again with the same thing

happening to me, and told me I should look past my dad's shortcomings (since

when is verbal/emotional abuse a mere shortcoming?) and forgive him and let

everything be hunky dory. I think she was unable to deal with the reality and

was just hopeful that I was just going through a " phase " that could be talked

out of.

>

> She and I mostly not talk about it, though she has slipped in some

guilt-tripping in most of her correspondence about the situation. On the

surface, it looks harmless, but it's still manipulation nonetheless.

>

> So....to the Christmas note...she told me that they spent Thanksgiving, as

usual, at my family's house, and said it was " of course, not the same without me

there. " Am I wrong in reading that as manipulation--that Aunt C. was just making

a harmless comment? I know I " m slightly paranoid about manipulation.

>

> If it is manipulation, I'm pondering how to go about responding. I'm kinda

tired of the flying monkey business, and just want to inform her a 2nd time

what's the problem in my family, in more direct terms. I understand better what

happened to me, and have better ways of saying what was wrong, so that could be

beneficial. On the other hand, it would just be easier to keep ignoring the

monkey business.

>

>

> Thanks as always for everybody's excellent insight

> Holly

>

> As an aside...my other aunt, let's call her Aunt Nutjob (my mom's

sister)...sent me a similar email around the same time as Aunt C. I gave her the

same rundown as Aunt C., and she responded with a fairly detailed story about

how depressed she is and was, and how she abused her kids, my cousins, and how

her husband had to keep constant tabs on her so she wouldn't kill herself.

Basically, the point of her letter was that mental illness is hard, and that

abuse happens, so I should just look past and forgive fada's faults. I forget

how I responded to her. I think I told her I had depression too and managed to

keep better control over myself. Haven't communicated with her in ages since

then.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm kinda tired of the flying monkey business, and just want to inform her a 2nd

time what's the problem in my family, in more direct terms.

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, are you saying that you think you can

make her understand your point of view if you just do it a little more directly?

To me, it sounds like she doesn't want to hear you, so I question whether

telling her again is going to achieve the result you are hoping for.

It sounds frustrating for you to have to deal with the flying monkeys. One

thing that might be helpful for you would be to consider a boundary with them

about what you are willing to discuss. For example, if they want to talk with

you about why you aren't in contact with your parents, you do not have to defend

your decision. You can simply say, " I've thought very carefully about my

decision, and I'm comfortable with it. What else would you like to talk about? "

Or, if it is helpful for you, you can also communicate with the monkeys that you

are not comfortable discussing your parents with them, and ask them not to bring

it up in the future.

KT

[Guest guest]

Yes, that is a subtle manipulation.

No, you are not paranoid.

If I may . . . you don't own Aunt C any explanations. You are grown, and you

have each and every right to spend your holidays where you choose. The more you

try to convince her, the more you are opening yourself up to her guilt,

manipulation, and (let's face it) subtle judgments.

She's not staying blind to be cruel. Staying blind is the only way she can deal

with her own stuff. And she's not going to be able to give that up no matter

how compelling your argument.

Food for thought--I suggest just leaving it alone and not responding. The more

you play this game, the more nada wins.

Hope that helps. Either way, (no matter what you decide) you are not off base

here!

Blessings,

Karla

>

> Just before Christmas, I got a few Christmas cards from relatives, including

my Aunt C. Thankfully most of my relatives at least understand my fada is

mentally ill, and understand my need to be NC, especially after he disowned me

and dishrag nada wouldn't stand up for me.

>

> But there's a couple of relatives who don't quite understand. I let them bring

it up, because I didn't know how to let them know of the disownment, and Aunt C.

emailed me wondering why I was not talking to my parents. I gave her a basic

rundown of what had happened, without going into the gory details--I didn't want

to be branded a slanderer or anything like that. I was also afraid she wouldn't

believe me, either.

>

> She emailed me back to remind me of my mom's sad story where her parents

disowned her, and how she couldn't talk to her brother (Aunt C's husband) or

sister. She said my mom still regrets what happened (though from what I hear of

her mom, ol' grandma was a nutcase, and I'm glad I had nothing to do with her.)

and Aunt C. told me how hard it is to see mom suffer again with the same thing

happening to me, and told me I should look past my dad's shortcomings (since

when is verbal/emotional abuse a mere shortcoming?) and forgive him and let

everything be hunky dory. I think she was unable to deal with the reality and

was just hopeful that I was just going through a " phase " that could be talked

out of.

>

> She and I mostly not talk about it, though she has slipped in some

guilt-tripping in most of her correspondence about the situation. On the

surface, it looks harmless, but it's still manipulation nonetheless.

>

> So....to the Christmas note...she told me that they spent Thanksgiving, as

usual, at my family's house, and said it was " of course, not the same without me

there. " Am I wrong in reading that as manipulation--that Aunt C. was just making

a harmless comment? I know I " m slightly paranoid about manipulation.

>

> If it is manipulation, I'm pondering how to go about responding. I'm kinda

tired of the flying monkey business, and just want to inform her a 2nd time

what's the problem in my family, in more direct terms. I understand better what

happened to me, and have better ways of saying what was wrong, so that could be

beneficial. On the other hand, it would just be easier to keep ignoring the

monkey business.

>

>

> Thanks as always for everybody's excellent insight

> Holly

>

> As an aside...my other aunt, let's call her Aunt Nutjob (my mom's

sister)...sent me a similar email around the same time as Aunt C. I gave her the

same rundown as Aunt C., and she responded with a fairly detailed story about

how depressed she is and was, and how she abused her kids, my cousins, and how

her husband had to keep constant tabs on her so she wouldn't kill herself.

Basically, the point of her letter was that mental illness is hard, and that

abuse happens, so I should just look past and forgive fada's faults. I forget

how I responded to her. I think I told her I had depression too and managed to

keep better control over myself. Haven't communicated with her in ages since

then.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, that is a subtle manipulation.

No, you are not paranoid.

If I may . . . you don't own Aunt C any explanations. You are grown, and you

have each and every right to spend your holidays where you choose. The more you

try to convince her, the more you are opening yourself up to her guilt,

manipulation, and (let's face it) subtle judgments.

She's not staying blind to be cruel. Staying blind is the only way she can deal

with her own stuff. And she's not going to be able to give that up no matter

how compelling your argument.

Food for thought--I suggest just leaving it alone and not responding. The more

you play this game, the more nada wins.

Hope that helps. Either way, (no matter what you decide) you are not off base

here!

Blessings,

Karla

>

> Just before Christmas, I got a few Christmas cards from relatives, including

my Aunt C. Thankfully most of my relatives at least understand my fada is

mentally ill, and understand my need to be NC, especially after he disowned me

and dishrag nada wouldn't stand up for me.

>

> But there's a couple of relatives who don't quite understand. I let them bring

it up, because I didn't know how to let them know of the disownment, and Aunt C.

emailed me wondering why I was not talking to my parents. I gave her a basic

rundown of what had happened, without going into the gory details--I didn't want

to be branded a slanderer or anything like that. I was also afraid she wouldn't

believe me, either.

>

> She emailed me back to remind me of my mom's sad story where her parents

disowned her, and how she couldn't talk to her brother (Aunt C's husband) or

sister. She said my mom still regrets what happened (though from what I hear of

her mom, ol' grandma was a nutcase, and I'm glad I had nothing to do with her.)

and Aunt C. told me how hard it is to see mom suffer again with the same thing

happening to me, and told me I should look past my dad's shortcomings (since

when is verbal/emotional abuse a mere shortcoming?) and forgive him and let

everything be hunky dory. I think she was unable to deal with the reality and

was just hopeful that I was just going through a " phase " that could be talked

out of.

>

> She and I mostly not talk about it, though she has slipped in some

guilt-tripping in most of her correspondence about the situation. On the

surface, it looks harmless, but it's still manipulation nonetheless.

>

> So....to the Christmas note...she told me that they spent Thanksgiving, as

usual, at my family's house, and said it was " of course, not the same without me

there. " Am I wrong in reading that as manipulation--that Aunt C. was just making

a harmless comment? I know I " m slightly paranoid about manipulation.

>

> If it is manipulation, I'm pondering how to go about responding. I'm kinda

tired of the flying monkey business, and just want to inform her a 2nd time

what's the problem in my family, in more direct terms. I understand better what

happened to me, and have better ways of saying what was wrong, so that could be

beneficial. On the other hand, it would just be easier to keep ignoring the

monkey business.

>

>

> Thanks as always for everybody's excellent insight

> Holly

>

> As an aside...my other aunt, let's call her Aunt Nutjob (my mom's

sister)...sent me a similar email around the same time as Aunt C. I gave her the

same rundown as Aunt C., and she responded with a fairly detailed story about

how depressed she is and was, and how she abused her kids, my cousins, and how

her husband had to keep constant tabs on her so she wouldn't kill herself.

Basically, the point of her letter was that mental illness is hard, and that

abuse happens, so I should just look past and forgive fada's faults. I forget

how I responded to her. I think I told her I had depression too and managed to

keep better control over myself. Haven't communicated with her in ages since

then.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone, for your insight! Yes, I was hoping that being more direct

would help her not be so blind to the obvious--but you're right. My aunt and

uncle have been struggling with many other things lately (finding a job,

etc) so I can totally see why they don't want to open their eyes. And I

don't blame them.

I'll just keep on ignoring the subtle manipulation. If she brings up the

topic more overtly, I'll just let her know that I don't want to talk about

it. It is easier to pretend there's no crazy fada elephant in the room,

sometimes, I think!

Thanks Now I feel better in responding.

Holly

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:31 AM, kyjohnson40days <kyjohnson40days@...

> wrote:

>

>

>

> Yes, that is a subtle manipulation.

>

> No, you are not paranoid.

>

> If I may . . . you don't own Aunt C any explanations. You are grown, and

> you have each and every right to spend your holidays where you choose. The

> more you try to convince her, the more you are opening yourself up to her

> guilt, manipulation, and (let's face it) subtle judgments.

>

> She's not staying blind to be cruel. Staying blind is the only way she can

> deal with her own stuff. And she's not going to be able to give that up no

> matter how compelling your argument.

>

> Food for thought--I suggest just leaving it alone and not responding. The

> more you play this game, the more nada wins.

>

> Hope that helps. Either way, (no matter what you decide) you are not off

> base here!

>

> Blessings,

> Karla

>

>

>

> >

> > Just before Christmas, I got a few Christmas cards from relatives,

> including my Aunt C. Thankfully most of my relatives at least understand my

> fada is mentally ill, and understand my need to be NC, especially after he

> disowned me and dishrag nada wouldn't stand up for me.

> >

> > But there's a couple of relatives who don't quite understand. I let them

> bring it up, because I didn't know how to let them know of the disownment,

> and Aunt C. emailed me wondering why I was not talking to my parents. I gave

> her a basic rundown of what had happened, without going into the gory

> details--I didn't want to be branded a slanderer or anything like that. I

> was also afraid she wouldn't believe me, either.

> >

> > She emailed me back to remind me of my mom's sad story where her parents

> disowned her, and how she couldn't talk to her brother (Aunt C's husband) or

> sister. She said my mom still regrets what happened (though from what I hear

> of her mom, ol' grandma was a nutcase, and I'm glad I had nothing to do with

> her.) and Aunt C. told me how hard it is to see mom suffer again with the

> same thing happening to me, and told me I should look past my dad's

> shortcomings (since when is verbal/emotional abuse a mere shortcoming?) and

> forgive him and let everything be hunky dory. I think she was unable to deal

> with the reality and was just hopeful that I was just going through a

> " phase " that could be talked out of.

> >

> > She and I mostly not talk about it, though she has slipped in some

> guilt-tripping in most of her correspondence about the situation. On the

> surface, it looks harmless, but it's still manipulation nonetheless.

> >

> > So....to the Christmas note...she told me that they spent Thanksgiving,

> as usual, at my family's house, and said it was " of course, not the same

> without me there. " Am I wrong in reading that as manipulation--that Aunt C.

> was just making a harmless comment? I know I " m slightly paranoid about

> manipulation.

> >

> > If it is manipulation, I'm pondering how to go about responding. I'm

> kinda tired of the flying monkey business, and just want to inform her a 2nd

> time what's the problem in my family, in more direct terms. I understand

> better what happened to me, and have better ways of saying what was wrong,

> so that could be beneficial. On the other hand, it would just be easier to

> keep ignoring the monkey business.

> >

> >

> > Thanks as always for everybody's excellent insight

> > Holly

> >

> > As an aside...my other aunt, let's call her Aunt Nutjob (my mom's

> sister)...sent me a similar email around the same time as Aunt C. I gave her

> the same rundown as Aunt C., and she responded with a fairly detailed story

> about how depressed she is and was, and how she abused her kids, my cousins,

> and how her husband had to keep constant tabs on her so she wouldn't kill

> herself. Basically, the point of her letter was that mental illness is hard,

> and that abuse happens, so I should just look past and forgive fada's

> faults. I forget how I responded to her. I think I told her I had depression

> too and managed to keep better control over myself. Haven't communicated

> with her in ages since then.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone, for your insight! Yes, I was hoping that being more direct

would help her not be so blind to the obvious--but you're right. My aunt and

uncle have been struggling with many other things lately (finding a job,

etc) so I can totally see why they don't want to open their eyes. And I

don't blame them.

I'll just keep on ignoring the subtle manipulation. If she brings up the

topic more overtly, I'll just let her know that I don't want to talk about

it. It is easier to pretend there's no crazy fada elephant in the room,

sometimes, I think!

Thanks Now I feel better in responding.

Holly

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:31 AM, kyjohnson40days <kyjohnson40days@...

> wrote:

>

>

>

> Yes, that is a subtle manipulation.

>

> No, you are not paranoid.

>

> If I may . . . you don't own Aunt C any explanations. You are grown, and

> you have each and every right to spend your holidays where you choose. The

> more you try to convince her, the more you are opening yourself up to her

> guilt, manipulation, and (let's face it) subtle judgments.

>

> She's not staying blind to be cruel. Staying blind is the only way she can

> deal with her own stuff. And she's not going to be able to give that up no

> matter how compelling your argument.

>

> Food for thought--I suggest just leaving it alone and not responding. The

> more you play this game, the more nada wins.

>

> Hope that helps. Either way, (no matter what you decide) you are not off

> base here!

>

> Blessings,

> Karla

>

>

>

> >

> > Just before Christmas, I got a few Christmas cards from relatives,

> including my Aunt C. Thankfully most of my relatives at least understand my

> fada is mentally ill, and understand my need to be NC, especially after he

> disowned me and dishrag nada wouldn't stand up for me.

> >

> > But there's a couple of relatives who don't quite understand. I let them

> bring it up, because I didn't know how to let them know of the disownment,

> and Aunt C. emailed me wondering why I was not talking to my parents. I gave

> her a basic rundown of what had happened, without going into the gory

> details--I didn't want to be branded a slanderer or anything like that. I

> was also afraid she wouldn't believe me, either.

> >

> > She emailed me back to remind me of my mom's sad story where her parents

> disowned her, and how she couldn't talk to her brother (Aunt C's husband) or

> sister. She said my mom still regrets what happened (though from what I hear

> of her mom, ol' grandma was a nutcase, and I'm glad I had nothing to do with

> her.) and Aunt C. told me how hard it is to see mom suffer again with the

> same thing happening to me, and told me I should look past my dad's

> shortcomings (since when is verbal/emotional abuse a mere shortcoming?) and

> forgive him and let everything be hunky dory. I think she was unable to deal

> with the reality and was just hopeful that I was just going through a

> " phase " that could be talked out of.

> >

> > She and I mostly not talk about it, though she has slipped in some

> guilt-tripping in most of her correspondence about the situation. On the

> surface, it looks harmless, but it's still manipulation nonetheless.

> >

> > So....to the Christmas note...she told me that they spent Thanksgiving,

> as usual, at my family's house, and said it was " of course, not the same

> without me there. " Am I wrong in reading that as manipulation--that Aunt C.

> was just making a harmless comment? I know I " m slightly paranoid about

> manipulation.

> >

> > If it is manipulation, I'm pondering how to go about responding. I'm

> kinda tired of the flying monkey business, and just want to inform her a 2nd

> time what's the problem in my family, in more direct terms. I understand

> better what happened to me, and have better ways of saying what was wrong,

> so that could be beneficial. On the other hand, it would just be easier to

> keep ignoring the monkey business.

> >

> >

> > Thanks as always for everybody's excellent insight

> > Holly

> >

> > As an aside...my other aunt, let's call her Aunt Nutjob (my mom's

> sister)...sent me a similar email around the same time as Aunt C. I gave her

> the same rundown as Aunt C., and she responded with a fairly detailed story

> about how depressed she is and was, and how she abused her kids, my cousins,

> and how her husband had to keep constant tabs on her so she wouldn't kill

> herself. Basically, the point of her letter was that mental illness is hard,

> and that abuse happens, so I should just look past and forgive fada's

> faults. I forget how I responded to her. I think I told her I had depression

> too and managed to keep better control over myself. Haven't communicated

> with her in ages since then.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if Aunt C is finding herself somehow fullfilling your role in the

family now that you have courtseyed and left? That is what continually

happens in my family. New people enter the situation (like " sister in law " )

and find they are sucked into a vaccum where my role used to be. They don't

like it so they flying monkey at my head and try to get me to come take it

off their hands. I'm not interested. Ha ha. I don't understand why they

think that I'm required to do it -- or why they think they are.

Second guess would be that your walking away shakes them up - maybe they've

based their whole world on kids being their to wipe their parent's abusive

bums as they cross the 100 year mark. If you don't do what she expects, it

will shake up her idea of reality.

Just my guesses. Personally, I don't think its her business and I woulnd't

discuss it with her. But when I went NC, it was a complete NC with everyone

who knows my nada. Makes it easier that way.

On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:31 PM, kyjohnson40days <kyjohnson40days@...

> wrote:

>

>

>

> Yes, that is a subtle manipulation.

>

> No, you are not paranoid.

>

> If I may . . . you don't own Aunt C any explanations. You are grown, and

> you have each and every right to spend your holidays where you choose. The

> more you try to convince her, the more you are opening yourself up to her

> guilt, manipulation, and (let's face it) subtle judgments.

>

> She's not staying blind to be cruel. Staying blind is the only way she can

> deal with her own stuff. And she's not going to be able to give that up no

> matter how compelling your argument.

>

> Food for thought--I suggest just leaving it alone and not responding. The

> more you play this game, the more nada wins.

>

> Hope that helps. Either way, (no matter what you decide) you are not off

> base here!

>

> Blessings,

> Karla

>

>

>

> >

> > Just before Christmas, I got a few Christmas cards from relatives,

> including my Aunt C. Thankfully most of my relatives at least understand my

> fada is mentally ill, and understand my need to be NC, especially after he

> disowned me and dishrag nada wouldn't stand up for me.

> >

> > But there's a couple of relatives who don't quite understand. I let them

> bring it up, because I didn't know how to let them know of the disownment,

> and Aunt C. emailed me wondering why I was not talking to my parents. I gave

> her a basic rundown of what had happened, without going into the gory

> details--I didn't want to be branded a slanderer or anything like that. I

> was also afraid she wouldn't believe me, either.

> >

> > She emailed me back to remind me of my mom's sad story where her parents

> disowned her, and how she couldn't talk to her brother (Aunt C's husband) or

> sister. She said my mom still regrets what happened (though from what I hear

> of her mom, ol' grandma was a nutcase, and I'm glad I had nothing to do with

> her.) and Aunt C. told me how hard it is to see mom suffer again with the

> same thing happening to me, and told me I should look past my dad's

> shortcomings (since when is verbal/emotional abuse a mere shortcoming?) and

> forgive him and let everything be hunky dory. I think she was unable to deal

> with the reality and was just hopeful that I was just going through a

> " phase " that could be talked out of.

> >

> > She and I mostly not talk about it, though she has slipped in some

> guilt-tripping in most of her correspondence about the situation. On the

> surface, it looks harmless, but it's still manipulation nonetheless.

> >

> > So....to the Christmas note...she told me that they spent Thanksgiving,

> as usual, at my family's house, and said it was " of course, not the same

> without me there. " Am I wrong in reading that as manipulation--that Aunt C.

> was just making a harmless comment? I know I " m slightly paranoid about

> manipulation.

> >

> > If it is manipulation, I'm pondering how to go about responding. I'm

> kinda tired of the flying monkey business, and just want to inform her a 2nd

> time what's the problem in my family, in more direct terms. I understand

> better what happened to me, and have better ways of saying what was wrong,

> so that could be beneficial. On the other hand, it would just be easier to

> keep ignoring the monkey business.

> >

> >

> > Thanks as always for everybody's excellent insight

> > Holly

> >

> > As an aside...my other aunt, let's call her Aunt Nutjob (my mom's

> sister)...sent me a similar email around the same time as Aunt C. I gave her

> the same rundown as Aunt C., and she responded with a fairly detailed story

> about how depressed she is and was, and how she abused her kids, my cousins,

> and how her husband had to keep constant tabs on her so she wouldn't kill

> herself. Basically, the point of her letter was that mental illness is hard,

> and that abuse happens, so I should just look past and forgive fada's

> faults. I forget how I responded to her. I think I told her I had depression

> too and managed to keep better control over myself. Haven't communicated

> with her in ages since then.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if Aunt C is finding herself somehow fullfilling your role in the

family now that you have courtseyed and left? That is what continually

happens in my family. New people enter the situation (like " sister in law " )

and find they are sucked into a vaccum where my role used to be. They don't

like it so they flying monkey at my head and try to get me to come take it

off their hands. I'm not interested. Ha ha. I don't understand why they

think that I'm required to do it -- or why they think they are.

Second guess would be that your walking away shakes them up - maybe they've

based their whole world on kids being their to wipe their parent's abusive

bums as they cross the 100 year mark. If you don't do what she expects, it

will shake up her idea of reality.

Just my guesses. Personally, I don't think its her business and I woulnd't

discuss it with her. But when I went NC, it was a complete NC with everyone

who knows my nada. Makes it easier that way.

On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 11:31 PM, kyjohnson40days <kyjohnson40days@...

> wrote:

>

>

>

> Yes, that is a subtle manipulation.

>

> No, you are not paranoid.

>

> If I may . . . you don't own Aunt C any explanations. You are grown, and

> you have each and every right to spend your holidays where you choose. The

> more you try to convince her, the more you are opening yourself up to her

> guilt, manipulation, and (let's face it) subtle judgments.

>

> She's not staying blind to be cruel. Staying blind is the only way she can

> deal with her own stuff. And she's not going to be able to give that up no

> matter how compelling your argument.

>

> Food for thought--I suggest just leaving it alone and not responding. The

> more you play this game, the more nada wins.

>

> Hope that helps. Either way, (no matter what you decide) you are not off

> base here!

>

> Blessings,

> Karla

>

>

>

> >

> > Just before Christmas, I got a few Christmas cards from relatives,

> including my Aunt C. Thankfully most of my relatives at least understand my

> fada is mentally ill, and understand my need to be NC, especially after he

> disowned me and dishrag nada wouldn't stand up for me.

> >

> > But there's a couple of relatives who don't quite understand. I let them

> bring it up, because I didn't know how to let them know of the disownment,

> and Aunt C. emailed me wondering why I was not talking to my parents. I gave

> her a basic rundown of what had happened, without going into the gory

> details--I didn't want to be branded a slanderer or anything like that. I

> was also afraid she wouldn't believe me, either.

> >

> > She emailed me back to remind me of my mom's sad story where her parents

> disowned her, and how she couldn't talk to her brother (Aunt C's husband) or

> sister. She said my mom still regrets what happened (though from what I hear

> of her mom, ol' grandma was a nutcase, and I'm glad I had nothing to do with

> her.) and Aunt C. told me how hard it is to see mom suffer again with the

> same thing happening to me, and told me I should look past my dad's

> shortcomings (since when is verbal/emotional abuse a mere shortcoming?) and

> forgive him and let everything be hunky dory. I think she was unable to deal

> with the reality and was just hopeful that I was just going through a

> " phase " that could be talked out of.

> >

> > She and I mostly not talk about it, though she has slipped in some

> guilt-tripping in most of her correspondence about the situation. On the

> surface, it looks harmless, but it's still manipulation nonetheless.

> >

> > So....to the Christmas note...she told me that they spent Thanksgiving,

> as usual, at my family's house, and said it was " of course, not the same

> without me there. " Am I wrong in reading that as manipulation--that Aunt C.

> was just making a harmless comment? I know I " m slightly paranoid about

> manipulation.

> >

> > If it is manipulation, I'm pondering how to go about responding. I'm

> kinda tired of the flying monkey business, and just want to inform her a 2nd

> time what's the problem in my family, in more direct terms. I understand

> better what happened to me, and have better ways of saying what was wrong,

> so that could be beneficial. On the other hand, it would just be easier to

> keep ignoring the monkey business.

> >

> >

> > Thanks as always for everybody's excellent insight

> > Holly

> >

> > As an aside...my other aunt, let's call her Aunt Nutjob (my mom's

> sister)...sent me a similar email around the same time as Aunt C. I gave her

> the same rundown as Aunt C., and she responded with a fairly detailed story

> about how depressed she is and was, and how she abused her kids, my cousins,

> and how her husband had to keep constant tabs on her so she wouldn't kill

> herself. Basically, the point of her letter was that mental illness is hard,

> and that abuse happens, so I should just look past and forgive fada's

> faults. I forget how I responded to her. I think I told her I had depression

> too and managed to keep better control over myself. Haven't communicated

> with her in ages since then.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with KTs post. If you want to remain in contact with this aunt, you can

choose to have a relationship with her that does not have anything to do with

your mother. If your aunt resists your boundary (we won't discuss my mother)

and really only wants to have contact with you in order to discuss your mother,

then, sadly, I guess that means you're not going to have much of a relationship

with her.

-Annie

> I'm kinda tired of the flying monkey business, and just want to inform her a

2nd time what's the problem in my family, in more direct terms.

>

> So, if I'm understanding this correctly, are you saying that you think you can

make her understand your point of view if you just do it a little more directly?

To me, it sounds like she doesn't want to hear you, so I question whether

telling her again is going to achieve the result you are hoping for.

>

> It sounds frustrating for you to have to deal with the flying monkeys. One

thing that might be helpful for you would be to consider a boundary with them

about what you are willing to discuss. For example, if they want to talk with

you about why you aren't in contact with your parents, you do not have to defend

your decision. You can simply say, " I've thought very carefully about my

decision, and I'm comfortable with it. What else would you like to talk about? "

Or, if it is helpful for you, you can also communicate with the monkeys that you

are not comfortable discussing your parents with them, and ask them not to bring

it up in the future.

>

>

> KT

>

[Guest guest]

Second Karla s statement, you do not owe anyone an explanation. If you

care for Aunty C, and want to try to have a relationship there, you can

offer a minimal explanation, but if not, Mind your own f ing business

works well.

If you don t want to go that direct, remember this.

You dont have to justify or explain why you maintain the relationships

as you do.

You were injured, if they want a relationship, it is far more fair for

them to make the changes, and come to you.

You can, and , IMHO , should forgive, just so you don t carry the toxic

burden of anger and hate. This does not mean you will go back for more

of the same if they do not change. It means you stop carrying it as part

of your baggage.

You can state, and it should be adequate, I am do not feel safe or

comfortable with contact or a closer relationship with ____.

I don t care to go into the reasons again, and I do not feel it

necessary to justify why I feel the way I do. If you wish to stay in a

relationship with me, please stop pressing me on it. If you cannot

honor my request, then I don t want a relationship with you either.

You don t have to explain. You dont have to give the gory details. And

when they start about your moms sad case, cut them off at once! Her

problems are not mine, and her problems do not account for what I had to

deal with. How she lives her life is up to her, but how I live mine is

up to me.

And at any time, it is always appropos to say to a snoopy , intrusive

flying monkey,

Oh, Sod off!

Doug