Re: suffering refines us...

[Guest guest]

It is true that logical explanations for evil and suffering have been presented

by a succession of philosophers and theologians. For example, it is proposed

that suffering refines the human being, teaching him compassion and sensitivity.

It has also been explained that there is no greater satisfaction than the

overcoming of adversity and no greater pleasure than the conquest of pain. The

philosophical mind can also appreciate that a persons finest and most potent

abilities are unleashed only under conditions of challenge and trial.

[Guest guest]

I was actually excited to see the title of this post. I thought Barry's

response was very well-spoken.

Lately it has been on my heart, that even though my Nada has BPD.....my

suffering has been tremendous. I believe that it has been very helpful to

building my character. I also am a master at reading people, their motives and

their emotions. I cannot excuse past transgressions, but I do believe I am a

better person as a result of being raised by my Nada and passive Fada.

I feel crazy for saying it....

Any thoughts?

>

> It is true that logical explanations for evil and suffering have been

presented by a succession of philosophers and theologians. For example, it is

proposed that suffering refines the human being, teaching him compassion and

sensitivity. It has also been explained that there is no greater satisfaction

than the overcoming of adversity and no greater pleasure than the conquest of

pain. The philosophical mind can also appreciate that a persons finest and most

potent abilities are unleashed only under conditions of challenge and trial.

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[Guest guest]

I was actually excited to see the title of this post. I thought Barry's

response was very well-spoken.

Lately it has been on my heart, that even though my Nada has BPD.....my

suffering has been tremendous. I believe that it has been very helpful to

building my character. I also am a master at reading people, their motives and

their emotions. I cannot excuse past transgressions, but I do believe I am a

better person as a result of being raised by my Nada and passive Fada.

I feel crazy for saying it....

Any thoughts?

>

> It is true that logical explanations for evil and suffering have been

presented by a succession of philosophers and theologians. For example, it is

proposed that suffering refines the human being, teaching him compassion and

sensitivity. It has also been explained that there is no greater satisfaction

than the overcoming of adversity and no greater pleasure than the conquest of

pain. The philosophical mind can also appreciate that a persons finest and most

potent abilities are unleashed only under conditions of challenge and trial.

>

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[Guest guest]

I was actually excited to see the title of this post. I thought Barry's

response was very well-spoken.

Lately it has been on my heart, that even though my Nada has BPD.....my

suffering has been tremendous. I believe that it has been very helpful to

building my character. I also am a master at reading people, their motives and

their emotions. I cannot excuse past transgressions, but I do believe I am a

better person as a result of being raised by my Nada and passive Fada.

I feel crazy for saying it....

Any thoughts?

>

> It is true that logical explanations for evil and suffering have been

presented by a succession of philosophers and theologians. For example, it is

proposed that suffering refines the human being, teaching him compassion and

sensitivity. It has also been explained that there is no greater satisfaction

than the overcoming of adversity and no greater pleasure than the conquest of

pain. The philosophical mind can also appreciate that a persons finest and most

potent abilities are unleashed only under conditions of challenge and trial.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If you feel that suffering has helped you or made you a better person, then,

that is what works for you, and that's good, and that is your reality.

Me personally, I can't put a good spin on abuse and the damage and suffering it

causes. I think it does more harm than good. I think hurting, emotionally

torturing and neglecting little kids can potentially alter a child's life course

in a very negative way.

I believe that whatever I have achieved or whatever good traits I have exist *in

spite of* the abuse I've endured, not *because* of it.

Its like saying that because you were in a bad car accident and lost your leg,

its made you a better driver. Well, I've never been in a car accident and I'm

an excellent and very cautious and focused driver, anyway. And I have both my

legs, thank God.

To me, saying that suffering refines us is a way of rationalizing suffering, and

I just can't get behind that.

I think that kindness and compassion and gentle nurturing bring out the very

best in humanity, not being forced to endure brutality and torment.

-Annie

> >

> > It is true that logical explanations for evil and suffering have been

presented by a succession of philosophers and theologians. For example, it is

proposed that suffering refines the human being, teaching him compassion and

sensitivity. It has also been explained that there is no greater satisfaction

than the overcoming of adversity and no greater pleasure than the conquest of

pain. The philosophical mind can also appreciate that a persons finest and most

potent abilities are unleashed only under conditions of challenge and trial.

> >

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> >

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[Guest guest]

If you feel that suffering has helped you or made you a better person, then,

that is what works for you, and that's good, and that is your reality.

Me personally, I can't put a good spin on abuse and the damage and suffering it

causes. I think it does more harm than good. I think hurting, emotionally

torturing and neglecting little kids can potentially alter a child's life course

in a very negative way.

I believe that whatever I have achieved or whatever good traits I have exist *in

spite of* the abuse I've endured, not *because* of it.

Its like saying that because you were in a bad car accident and lost your leg,

its made you a better driver. Well, I've never been in a car accident and I'm

an excellent and very cautious and focused driver, anyway. And I have both my

legs, thank God.

To me, saying that suffering refines us is a way of rationalizing suffering, and

I just can't get behind that.

I think that kindness and compassion and gentle nurturing bring out the very

best in humanity, not being forced to endure brutality and torment.

-Annie

> >

> > It is true that logical explanations for evil and suffering have been

presented by a succession of philosophers and theologians. For example, it is

proposed that suffering refines the human being, teaching him compassion and

sensitivity. It has also been explained that there is no greater satisfaction

than the overcoming of adversity and no greater pleasure than the conquest of

pain. The philosophical mind can also appreciate that a persons finest and most

potent abilities are unleashed only under conditions of challenge and trial.

> >

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[Guest guest]

If you feel that suffering has helped you or made you a better person, then,

that is what works for you, and that's good, and that is your reality.

Me personally, I can't put a good spin on abuse and the damage and suffering it

causes. I think it does more harm than good. I think hurting, emotionally

torturing and neglecting little kids can potentially alter a child's life course

in a very negative way.

I believe that whatever I have achieved or whatever good traits I have exist *in

spite of* the abuse I've endured, not *because* of it.

Its like saying that because you were in a bad car accident and lost your leg,

its made you a better driver. Well, I've never been in a car accident and I'm

an excellent and very cautious and focused driver, anyway. And I have both my

legs, thank God.

To me, saying that suffering refines us is a way of rationalizing suffering, and

I just can't get behind that.

I think that kindness and compassion and gentle nurturing bring out the very

best in humanity, not being forced to endure brutality and torment.

-Annie

> >

> > It is true that logical explanations for evil and suffering have been

presented by a succession of philosophers and theologians. For example, it is

proposed that suffering refines the human being, teaching him compassion and

sensitivity. It has also been explained that there is no greater satisfaction

than the overcoming of adversity and no greater pleasure than the conquest of

pain. The philosophical mind can also appreciate that a persons finest and most

potent abilities are unleashed only under conditions of challenge and trial.

> >

> >

> >

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> >

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[Guest guest]

>

> I was actually excited to see the title of this post. I thought Barry's

response was very well-spoken.

>

> Lately it has been on my heart, that even though my Nada has BPD.....my

suffering has been tremendous. I believe that it has been very helpful to

building my character. I also am a master at reading people, their motives and

their emotions. I cannot excuse past transgressions, but I do believe I am a

better person as a result of being raised by my Nada and passive Fada.

>

> I feel crazy for saying it....

>

> Any thoughts?

>

I think it's all about the context. Weight lifting builds muscle by producing

subtle damage that is repaired and the muscle grows stronger. Lift a weight

that's way too heavy and you don't get stronger, you get injured, yanking

tendons and joints out of place. To me the mind-f**k that is being raised by a

mentally ill parent is the equivalent of trying to lift a damaging amount of

weight. A child's mind is just not equipped to handle such a scenario, has no

context and if there aren't enough healthy adults around the damage goes deep as

in my situation. I did develop many skills in trying to cope with things, one's

I wouldn't have otherwise - BUT I also got built in handicaps from the

experience that have sabotaged the success I've had in my life multiple times.

So yes, growing up in that environment may bring some gifts but at a terrible

price.

[Guest guest]

>

> I was actually excited to see the title of this post. I thought Barry's

response was very well-spoken.

>

> Lately it has been on my heart, that even though my Nada has BPD.....my

suffering has been tremendous. I believe that it has been very helpful to

building my character. I also am a master at reading people, their motives and

their emotions. I cannot excuse past transgressions, but I do believe I am a

better person as a result of being raised by my Nada and passive Fada.

>

> I feel crazy for saying it....

>

> Any thoughts?

>

I think it's all about the context. Weight lifting builds muscle by producing

subtle damage that is repaired and the muscle grows stronger. Lift a weight

that's way too heavy and you don't get stronger, you get injured, yanking

tendons and joints out of place. To me the mind-f**k that is being raised by a

mentally ill parent is the equivalent of trying to lift a damaging amount of

weight. A child's mind is just not equipped to handle such a scenario, has no

context and if there aren't enough healthy adults around the damage goes deep as

in my situation. I did develop many skills in trying to cope with things, one's

I wouldn't have otherwise - BUT I also got built in handicaps from the

experience that have sabotaged the success I've had in my life multiple times.

So yes, growing up in that environment may bring some gifts but at a terrible

price.

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I didn't write that quote about suffering. I found it and wanted to share it.

I too believe that all the suffering was not worth anything...and I would have

been a good person without all of the sickness running thru my family.

It was just an interesting paragraph I wanted to share with all of you.

Amy

Re: suffering refines us...

If you feel that suffering has helped you or made you a better person, then,

that is what works for you, and that's good, and that is your reality.

Me personally, I can't put a good spin on abuse and the damage and suffering it

causes. I think it does more harm than good. I think hurting, emotionally

torturing and neglecting little kids can potentially alter a child's life course

in a very negative way.

I believe that whatever I have achieved or whatever good traits I have exist *in

spite of* the abuse I've endured, not *because* of it.

Its like saying that because you were in a bad car accident and lost your leg,

its made you a better driver. Well, I've never been in a car accident and I'm

an excellent and very cautious and focused driver, anyway. And I have both my

legs, thank God.

To me, saying that suffering refines us is a way of rationalizing suffering, and

I just can't get behind that.

I think that kindness and compassion and gentle nurturing bring out the very

best in humanity, not being forced to endure brutality and torment.

-Annie

> >

> > It is true that logical explanations for evil and suffering have been

presented by a succession of philosophers and theologians. For example, it is

proposed that suffering refines the human being, teaching him compassion and

sensitivity. It has also been explained that there is no greater satisfaction

than the overcoming of adversity and no greater pleasure than the conquest of

pain. The philosophical mind can also appreciate that a persons finest and most

potent abilities are unleashed only under conditions of challenge and trial.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

The price of my suffering was too great for any positives to be equal to.

It was just something that I thought might help someone. It struck me as

something I couldn't understand for myself, but maybe to help someone else.

Amy

Re: suffering refines us...

>

> I was actually excited to see the title of this post. I thought Barry's

response was very well-spoken.

>

> Lately it has been on my heart, that even though my Nada has BPD.....my

suffering has been tremendous. I believe that it has been very helpful to

building my character. I also am a master at reading people, their motives and

their emotions. I cannot excuse past transgressions, but I do believe I am a

better person as a result of being raised by my Nada and passive Fada.

>

> I feel crazy for saying it....

>

> Any thoughts?

>

I think it's all about the context. Weight lifting builds muscle by producing

subtle damage that is repaired and the muscle grows stronger. Lift a weight

that's way too heavy and you don't get stronger, you get injured, yanking

tendons and joints out of place. To me the mind-f**k that is being raised by a

mentally ill parent is the equivalent of trying to lift a damaging amount of

weight. A child's mind is just not equipped to handle such a scenario, has no

context and if there aren't enough healthy adults around the damage goes deep as

in my situation. I did develop many skills in trying to cope with things, one's

I wouldn't have otherwise - BUT I also got built in handicaps from the

experience that have sabotaged the success I've had in my life multiple times.

So yes, growing up in that environment may bring some gifts but at a terrible

price.