BPD's and pathological lying

[Guest guest]

You're right about the lying. And when they get caught in their lying, they play

the victim to get out of it. I really think this is a key trait in BPDs. I also

dont believe they don't know they're lying. I think they're very aware, but

like to slant things their direction so weasel their way out of things. My

mother in law is BPD (thankfully she lives thousands of miles away so we dont

deal with her often) and she is a pathological liar. She invents crap, makes up

stories about her childhood, lies about the price of something she bought you,

the weather, exaggerates everything == the list is truly endless.

Re: Apparently, I " need help "

I d like to share something for you to consider.

I haven t read your previous posts about your mom s blow ups, so I m

coming in at the middle. However, I m assuming that she is a nada, that

is a BP.

That being the case, you should consider this: BP s lie. They

gaslight, re invent the past, hear conversations as they want them to

be, not as they are.

All these things you have heard of Nada s T, telling her she is a

victim, that her family is sicker than she is so she should ignore them,

pitting her against them, again, I m assuming that you have heard these

things only from nada, or from someone to whom nada has spoken. I

further assume that you have NOT heard any of them directly from the T.

My own nada told me at various times that her T said she didn t need to

be in therapy, her psychiatrist had another woman in the office with her

while she talked, and the woman told her she was a very wise woman, who

helped other people more than they helped her, that it was right for

her to hate her mother. I could go on with this list, but the main

point about it is that not One of these things were true.

I DID in fact meet with her T , with her, and alone, when she refused to

show up for a family therapy session. Nada very frequently told me, and

others, things her T had said that NO professional counselor would ever

say, and things that her Dr said that no Dr would ever tell a patient.

The bottom line is that she was gaslighting, and telling the story that

lined up with what she wanted to do and to believe.

I can t tell you for certain that is what your nada is doing, but just

the brief story you shared makes me highly suspicious that this is the

case. They love to say things that deflect anger or hurt feelings away

from them, because , of course, nothing is ever their fault.

My rule of thumb with a BP, is that I never, ever believe what they say

unless it is confirmed and verified by another person who is NOT a

flying monkey!

And just to help you out,

CSAT is Certified Sexual Addiction Therapist

NCC is National Certified Counselor

Just sharing some knowledge and experience with you, not trying to tell

you what to do, by any means. You have a BP in your life, it is a

tough thing.

Good luck to you.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Very true.

Not as a justification, but just by way of understanding them; BP s are

so emotionally fragile in terms of self confidence and belief in their

worth, that they are, truly , pathologically compelled to lie to make

themselves either the victim or the hero.

They believe that any slight fault will cause people to abandon them,

and they are terrified of being abandoned.

Sadly, the very behaviors they exhibit to try and avoid this end up

driving people away, hence the number of folks on here who go to NC or

LC.

As much as it is true that what they do to us is awful , horrible, it is

equally true that it is horrible living inside the emotional mess of

their lives.

May we all heal. And indeed, somehow, somewhere, may THEY.

Doug

>

> You're right about the lying. And when they get caught in their lying,

they play the victim to get out of it. I really think this is a key

trait in BPDs. I also dont believe they don't know they're lying. I

think they're very aware, but like to slant things their direction so

weasel their way out of things. My mother in law is BPD (thankfully she

lives thousands of miles away so we dont deal with her often) and she is

a pathological liar. She invents crap, makes up stories about her

childhood, lies about the price of something she bought you, the

weather, exaggerates everything == the list is truly endless.

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Apparently, I " need help "

>

>

>

>

> I d like to share something for you to consider.

>

> I haven t read your previous posts about your mom s blow ups, so I m

> coming in at the middle. However, I m assuming that she is a nada,

that

> is a BP.

>

> That being the case, you should consider this: BP s lie. They

> gaslight, re invent the past, hear conversations as they want them to

> be, not as they are.

>

> All these things you have heard of Nada s T, telling her she is a

> victim, that her family is sicker than she is so she should ignore

them,

> pitting her against them, again, I m assuming that you have heard

these

> things only from nada, or from someone to whom nada has spoken. I

> further assume that you have NOT heard any of them directly from the

T.

>

> My own nada told me at various times that her T said she didn t need

to

> be in therapy, her psychiatrist had another woman in the office with

her

> while she talked, and the woman told her she was a very wise woman,

who

> helped other people more than they helped her, that it was right for

> her to hate her mother. I could go on with this list, but the main

> point about it is that not One of these things were true.

>

> I DID in fact meet with her T , with her, and alone, when she refused

to

> show up for a family therapy session. Nada very frequently told me,

and

> others, things her T had said that NO professional counselor would

ever

> say, and things that her Dr said that no Dr would ever tell a patient.

> The bottom line is that she was gaslighting, and telling the story

that

> lined up with what she wanted to do and to believe.

>

> I can t tell you for certain that is what your nada is doing, but just

> the brief story you shared makes me highly suspicious that this is the

> case. They love to say things that deflect anger or hurt feelings away

> from them, because , of course, nothing is ever their fault.

>

> My rule of thumb with a BP, is that I never, ever believe what they

say

> unless it is confirmed and verified by another person who is NOT a

> flying monkey!

>

> And just to help you out,

>

> CSAT is Certified Sexual Addiction Therapist

> NCC is National Certified Counselor

>

> Just sharing some knowledge and experience with you, not trying to

tell

> you what to do, by any means. You have a BP in your life, it is a

> tough thing.

>

> Good luck to you.

>

> Doug

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Very true.

Not as a justification, but just by way of understanding them; BP s are

so emotionally fragile in terms of self confidence and belief in their

worth, that they are, truly , pathologically compelled to lie to make

themselves either the victim or the hero.

They believe that any slight fault will cause people to abandon them,

and they are terrified of being abandoned.

Sadly, the very behaviors they exhibit to try and avoid this end up

driving people away, hence the number of folks on here who go to NC or

LC.

As much as it is true that what they do to us is awful , horrible, it is

equally true that it is horrible living inside the emotional mess of

their lives.

May we all heal. And indeed, somehow, somewhere, may THEY.

Doug

>

> You're right about the lying. And when they get caught in their lying,

they play the victim to get out of it. I really think this is a key

trait in BPDs. I also dont believe they don't know they're lying. I

think they're very aware, but like to slant things their direction so

weasel their way out of things. My mother in law is BPD (thankfully she

lives thousands of miles away so we dont deal with her often) and she is

a pathological liar. She invents crap, makes up stories about her

childhood, lies about the price of something she bought you, the

weather, exaggerates everything == the list is truly endless.

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Apparently, I " need help "

>

>

>

>

> I d like to share something for you to consider.

>

> I haven t read your previous posts about your mom s blow ups, so I m

> coming in at the middle. However, I m assuming that she is a nada,

that

> is a BP.

>

> That being the case, you should consider this: BP s lie. They

> gaslight, re invent the past, hear conversations as they want them to

> be, not as they are.

>

> All these things you have heard of Nada s T, telling her she is a

> victim, that her family is sicker than she is so she should ignore

them,

> pitting her against them, again, I m assuming that you have heard

these

> things only from nada, or from someone to whom nada has spoken. I

> further assume that you have NOT heard any of them directly from the

T.

>

> My own nada told me at various times that her T said she didn t need

to

> be in therapy, her psychiatrist had another woman in the office with

her

> while she talked, and the woman told her she was a very wise woman,

who

> helped other people more than they helped her, that it was right for

> her to hate her mother. I could go on with this list, but the main

> point about it is that not One of these things were true.

>

> I DID in fact meet with her T , with her, and alone, when she refused

to

> show up for a family therapy session. Nada very frequently told me,

and

> others, things her T had said that NO professional counselor would

ever

> say, and things that her Dr said that no Dr would ever tell a patient.

> The bottom line is that she was gaslighting, and telling the story

that

> lined up with what she wanted to do and to believe.

>

> I can t tell you for certain that is what your nada is doing, but just

> the brief story you shared makes me highly suspicious that this is the

> case. They love to say things that deflect anger or hurt feelings away

> from them, because , of course, nothing is ever their fault.

>

> My rule of thumb with a BP, is that I never, ever believe what they

say

> unless it is confirmed and verified by another person who is NOT a

> flying monkey!

>

> And just to help you out,

>

> CSAT is Certified Sexual Addiction Therapist

> NCC is National Certified Counselor

>

> Just sharing some knowledge and experience with you, not trying to

tell

> you what to do, by any means. You have a BP in your life, it is a

> tough thing.

>

> Good luck to you.

>

> Doug

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Apparently pathological lying is also a characteristic of narcissistic pd,

according to #8 on the list of " The Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers "

article which I'll paste here:

8. She's a liar in too many ways to count. Any time she talks about something

that has emotional significance for her, it's a fair bet that she's lying. Lying

is one way that she creates conflict in the relationships and lives of those

around her - she'll lie to them about what other people have said, what they've

done, or how they feel. She'll lie about her relationship with them, about your

behavior or about your situation in order to inflate herself and to undermine

your credibility.

The narcissist is very careful about how she lies. To outsiders she'll lie

thoughtfully and deliberately, always in a way that can be covered up if she's

confronted with her lie. She spins what you said rather than makes something up

wholesale. She puts dishonest interpretations on things you actually did. If

she's recently done something particularly egregious she may engage in

preventative lying: she lies in advance to discount what you might say before

you even say it. Then when you talk about what she did you'll be cut off with " I

already know all about it…your mother told me... (self-justifications and

lies). " Because she is so careful about her deniability, it may be very hard to

catch her in her lies and the more gullible of her friends may never realize how

dishonest she is.

To you, she'll lie blatantly. She will claim to be unable to remember bad things

she has done, even if she did one of them recently and even if it was something

very memorable. Of course, if you try to jog her memory by recounting the

circumstances " You have a very vivid imagination " or " That was so long ago. Why

do you have to dredge up your old grudges? " Your conversations with her are full

of casual brush-offs and diversionary lies and she doesn't respect you enough to

bother making it sound good. For example she'll start with a self-serving lie:

" If I don't take you as a dependent on my taxes I'll lose three thousand

dollars! " You refute her lie with an obvious truth: " No, three thousand dollars

is the amount of the dependent exemption. You'll only lose about eight hundred

dollars. " Her response: " Isn't that what I said? " You are now in a game with

only one rule: You can't win.

On the rare occasions she is forced to acknowledge some bad behavior, she will

couch the admission deniably. She " guesses " that " maybe " she " might have " done

something wrong. The wrongdoing is always heavily spun and trimmed to make it

sound better. The words " I guess, " " maybe, " and " might have " are in and of

themselves lies because she knows exactly what she did - no guessing, no might

haves, no maybes. "

Here's a link to the rest of the article:

http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

-Annie

>

> This is my mother in law. She makes things up that her grandchildren say --

embellishes to try to make them look funnier or cuter. My kids will stand and

say, " I never said that! " right in front of her. It's sad. Last year for

Christmas she bought me this Barbara Streisand Christmas CD. They are a dime a

dozen. In fact, I already had it. She went through this diatribe about this

conversation she had with some woman about how you can't get them now and

they're selling on ebay for thousands of dollars. Umm, actually you can get it

on ebay for about $5. Unbelievable, but its how she is.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Apparently, I " need help "

>

> I d like to share something for you to consider.

>

> I haven t read your previous posts about your mom s blow ups, so I m

> coming in at the middle. However, I m assuming that she is a nada, that

> is a BP.

>

> That being the case, you should consider this: BP s lie. They

> gaslight, re invent the past, hear conversations as they want them to

> be, not as they are.

>

> All these things you have heard of Nada s T, telling her she is a

> victim, that her family is sicker than she is so she should ignore them,

> pitting her against them, again, I m assuming that you have heard these

> things only from nada, or from someone to whom nada has spoken. I

> further assume that you have NOT heard any of them directly from the T.

>

> My own nada told me at various times that her T said she didn t need to

> be in therapy, her psychiatrist had another woman in the office with her

> while she talked, and the woman told her she was a very wise woman, who

> helped other people more than they helped her, that it was right for

> her to hate her mother. I could go on with this list, but the main

> point about it is that not One of these things were true.

>

> I DID in fact meet with her T , with her, and alone, when she refused to

> show up for a family therapy session. Nada very frequently told me, and

> others, things her T had said that NO professional counselor would ever

> say, and things that her Dr said that no Dr would ever tell a patient.

> The bottom line is that she was gaslighting, and telling the story that

> lined up with what she wanted to do and to believe.

>

> I can t tell you for certain that is what your nada is doing, but just

> the brief story you shared makes me highly suspicious that this is the

> case. They love to say things that deflect anger or hurt feelings away

> from them, because , of course, nothing is ever their fault.

>

> My rule of thumb with a BP, is that I never, ever believe what they say

> unless it is confirmed and verified by another person who is NOT a

> flying monkey!

>

> And just to help you out,

>

> CSAT is Certified Sexual Addiction Therapist

> NCC is National Certified Counselor

>

> Just sharing some knowledge and experience with you, not trying to tell

> you what to do, by any means. You have a BP in your life, it is a

> tough thing.

>

> Good luck to you.

>

> Doug

>

>

[Guest guest]

Apparently pathological lying is also a characteristic of narcissistic pd,

according to #8 on the list of " The Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers "

article which I'll paste here:

8. She's a liar in too many ways to count. Any time she talks about something

that has emotional significance for her, it's a fair bet that she's lying. Lying

is one way that she creates conflict in the relationships and lives of those

around her - she'll lie to them about what other people have said, what they've

done, or how they feel. She'll lie about her relationship with them, about your

behavior or about your situation in order to inflate herself and to undermine

your credibility.

The narcissist is very careful about how she lies. To outsiders she'll lie

thoughtfully and deliberately, always in a way that can be covered up if she's

confronted with her lie. She spins what you said rather than makes something up

wholesale. She puts dishonest interpretations on things you actually did. If

she's recently done something particularly egregious she may engage in

preventative lying: she lies in advance to discount what you might say before

you even say it. Then when you talk about what she did you'll be cut off with " I

already know all about it…your mother told me... (self-justifications and

lies). " Because she is so careful about her deniability, it may be very hard to

catch her in her lies and the more gullible of her friends may never realize how

dishonest she is.

To you, she'll lie blatantly. She will claim to be unable to remember bad things

she has done, even if she did one of them recently and even if it was something

very memorable. Of course, if you try to jog her memory by recounting the

circumstances " You have a very vivid imagination " or " That was so long ago. Why

do you have to dredge up your old grudges? " Your conversations with her are full

of casual brush-offs and diversionary lies and she doesn't respect you enough to

bother making it sound good. For example she'll start with a self-serving lie:

" If I don't take you as a dependent on my taxes I'll lose three thousand

dollars! " You refute her lie with an obvious truth: " No, three thousand dollars

is the amount of the dependent exemption. You'll only lose about eight hundred

dollars. " Her response: " Isn't that what I said? " You are now in a game with

only one rule: You can't win.

On the rare occasions she is forced to acknowledge some bad behavior, she will

couch the admission deniably. She " guesses " that " maybe " she " might have " done

something wrong. The wrongdoing is always heavily spun and trimmed to make it

sound better. The words " I guess, " " maybe, " and " might have " are in and of

themselves lies because she knows exactly what she did - no guessing, no might

haves, no maybes. "

Here's a link to the rest of the article:

http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

-Annie

>

> This is my mother in law. She makes things up that her grandchildren say --

embellishes to try to make them look funnier or cuter. My kids will stand and

say, " I never said that! " right in front of her. It's sad. Last year for

Christmas she bought me this Barbara Streisand Christmas CD. They are a dime a

dozen. In fact, I already had it. She went through this diatribe about this

conversation she had with some woman about how you can't get them now and

they're selling on ebay for thousands of dollars. Umm, actually you can get it

on ebay for about $5. Unbelievable, but its how she is.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Apparently, I " need help "

>

> I d like to share something for you to consider.

>

> I haven t read your previous posts about your mom s blow ups, so I m

> coming in at the middle. However, I m assuming that she is a nada, that

> is a BP.

>

> That being the case, you should consider this: BP s lie. They

> gaslight, re invent the past, hear conversations as they want them to

> be, not as they are.

>

> All these things you have heard of Nada s T, telling her she is a

> victim, that her family is sicker than she is so she should ignore them,

> pitting her against them, again, I m assuming that you have heard these

> things only from nada, or from someone to whom nada has spoken. I

> further assume that you have NOT heard any of them directly from the T.

>

> My own nada told me at various times that her T said she didn t need to

> be in therapy, her psychiatrist had another woman in the office with her

> while she talked, and the woman told her she was a very wise woman, who

> helped other people more than they helped her, that it was right for

> her to hate her mother. I could go on with this list, but the main

> point about it is that not One of these things were true.

>

> I DID in fact meet with her T , with her, and alone, when she refused to

> show up for a family therapy session. Nada very frequently told me, and

> others, things her T had said that NO professional counselor would ever

> say, and things that her Dr said that no Dr would ever tell a patient.

> The bottom line is that she was gaslighting, and telling the story that

> lined up with what she wanted to do and to believe.

>

> I can t tell you for certain that is what your nada is doing, but just

> the brief story you shared makes me highly suspicious that this is the

> case. They love to say things that deflect anger or hurt feelings away

> from them, because , of course, nothing is ever their fault.

>

> My rule of thumb with a BP, is that I never, ever believe what they say

> unless it is confirmed and verified by another person who is NOT a

> flying monkey!

>

> And just to help you out,

>

> CSAT is Certified Sexual Addiction Therapist

> NCC is National Certified Counselor

>

> Just sharing some knowledge and experience with you, not trying to tell

> you what to do, by any means. You have a BP in your life, it is a

> tough thing.

>

> Good luck to you.

>

> Doug

>

>

[Guest guest]

Doug,

I loved your rule of thumb..... " I never, ever believe what they

> say

> > unless it is confirmed and verified by another person who is NOT a

> > flying monkey! "

You totally " get it " .... I feel that way about my nada for sure!!

> >

> >

> > You're right about the lying. And when they get caught in their lying,

> they play the victim to get out of it. I really think this is a key

> trait in BPDs. I also dont believe they don't know they're lying. I

> think they're very aware, but like to slant things their direction so

> weasel their way out of things. My mother in law is BPD (thankfully she

> lives thousands of miles away so we dont deal with her often) and she is

> a pathological liar. She invents crap, makes up stories about her

> childhood, lies about the price of something she bought you, the

> weather, exaggerates everything == the list is truly endless.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Re: Apparently, I " need help "

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I d like to share something for you to consider.

> >

> > I haven t read your previous posts about your mom s blow ups, so I m

> > coming in at the middle. However, I m assuming that she is a nada,

> that

> > is a BP.

> >

> > That being the case, you should consider this: BP s lie. They

> > gaslight, re invent the past, hear conversations as they want them to

> > be, not as they are.

> >

> > All these things you have heard of Nada s T, telling her she is a

> > victim, that her family is sicker than she is so she should ignore

> them,

> > pitting her against them, again, I m assuming that you have heard

> these

> > things only from nada, or from someone to whom nada has spoken. I

> > further assume that you have NOT heard any of them directly from the

> T.

> >

> > My own nada told me at various times that her T said she didn t need

> to

> > be in therapy, her psychiatrist had another woman in the office with

> her

> > while she talked, and the woman told her she was a very wise woman,

> who

> > helped other people more than they helped her, that it was right for

> > her to hate her mother. I could go on with this list, but the main

> > point about it is that not One of these things were true.

> >

> > I DID in fact meet with her T , with her, and alone, when she refused

> to

> > show up for a family therapy session. Nada very frequently told me,

> and

> > others, things her T had said that NO professional counselor would

> ever

> > say, and things that her Dr said that no Dr would ever tell a patient.

> > The bottom line is that she was gaslighting, and telling the story

> that

> > lined up with what she wanted to do and to believe.

> >

> > I can t tell you for certain that is what your nada is doing, but just

> > the brief story you shared makes me highly suspicious that this is the

> > case. They love to say things that deflect anger or hurt feelings away

> > from them, because , of course, nothing is ever their fault.

> >

> > My rule of thumb with a BP, is that I never, ever believe what they

> say

> > unless it is confirmed and verified by another person who is NOT a

> > flying monkey!

> >

> > And just to help you out,

> >

> > CSAT is Certified Sexual Addiction Therapist

> > NCC is National Certified Counselor

> >

> > Just sharing some knowledge and experience with you, not trying to

> tell

> > you what to do, by any means. You have a BP in your life, it is a

> > tough thing.

> >

> > Good luck to you.

> >

> > Doug

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >